It is currently Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:15 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Freezeone CPU cooler (CoolIT Systems) aka Liquid Chiller
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:08 am 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:52 am
Posts: 1105
Location: EU
This was posted about in the Silent Front (Xbox 360 thread), but as it's supposed to be a generic CPU cooler, I think it warrants more exposure:

Image
Image
http://www.coolitsystems.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=26

Price $399.95 US

Granted it's not accurately "water cooling", but it fits better here than in the CPU cooling forum, imho.

Anybody want to test it? Perhaps a SPCR review?

I wonder how the thermal cooling of the TECs work? Sure they can chill the liquid with TECs, but how about the TECs themselves? It has no radiator.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:27 pm
Posts: 341
Location: Sweden
Says there is a heatsink in it. This is a heatsink, with TECs, connected to the CPU through liquid stuff and a pump basically? Water cooling, except not actual water. Or just a hoax?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:13 pm 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 3998
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Interesting system, but they sure like to throw useless invented marketing terms around just to make it seem more innovative than it really is. It's a pre-packaged WC kit, not really all that functionally different than kits made by CoolerMaster, ThermalTake, or half a dozen other people.

It's "environmentally friendly coolant" is automotive antifreeze and distilled water, no different than I'm running in my WC rig. It's "FHE" is what everyone else in the world would call "a waterblock" Instead of a radiator, it uses a pair of waterblocks attached to TEC's, which are arrached to a big alluminum heatsink cooled with a 92mm fan.

One part of their FAQ jumps out as being simple, total BS: "Do CoolIT systems require power supplies with greater than normal capacities?
No. While the TECs do use power under heavy load, the system reduces power consumption at the die level due to lower operating temperatures.
" That my friends, is BS. There's no way those TEC's aren't running when the system is on, I'd put money on that without ever even having seen one first hand. (there's no low-resistance thermal connection between the WB's and the heatsink - the TEC's are in the way) And the tiny wattage reduction from running the CPU 10-15° cooler is nothing compared to the (probably) 200W of TEC's they've got.

But having said that.....I'd still like to see one. :lol:

_________________
Senior Contributing Writer, SPCR


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:26 pm
Posts: 261
Location: Helsinki, Finland
It's interesting at least. Definitely it will draw some juice from the wall socket, but how much exactly is to be seen. What I'm wondering is that the heatsink must get pretty hot, so you should take some care when installing it for not to overheat any other components, on the MB nearby or somewhere else.

There is certain innovation under all the BS, like using peltiers both on CPU block and on the radiator - and it looks darn sexy.

As far as I know about the TEC's, they need over linear amount of power for the temperature gradient they produce, so basicly having multiple of them in series and parallel might actually give you better cooling per watt efficiency. And as moving heat from heatsink to air scales linearly in relation to the temperature gradient that little HS might be able to remove quite a lot heat from the loop if you can just affor to run those TECs with enough power.

I am not convinced yet, but I'd definitely like to see one tested by some trustworthy independent party.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 2:25 am
Posts: 30
$400!!!

Thats crazy!

Do not get me wrong; it sounds good on paper and from what I read on there WEB site, just $400 is a crazy price.

Think this has a modifided CSP-MAG pump, which is a really good unit from long time experience I have with them.

But this does not mean the whole system is great. It would need to be very impressive to get my $400 :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:26 pm
Posts: 261
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Rusty075 wrote:
One part of their FAQ jumps out as being simple, total BS: "Do CoolIT systems require power supplies with greater than normal capacities?
No. While the TECs do use power under heavy load, the system reduces power consumption at the die level due to lower operating temperatures.
" That my friends, is BS. There's no way those TEC's aren't running when the system is on, I'd put money on that without ever even having seen one first hand. (there's no low-resistance thermal connection between the WB's and the heatsink - the TEC's are in the way) And the tiny wattage reduction from running the CPU 10-15° cooler is nothing compared to the (probably) 200W of TEC's they've got.

But having said that.....I'd still like to see one. :lol:


In fact, now that I have studied TECs a bit more, I might give some value to their claims.

Lets first define a new term: CoP, coefficient of performance, is used to measure effectiveness of thermal pumps. It's in essence amount of heat pumped (in Watts) per amount of power fed to the thermal pump (in Watts, again). Compressor-based coolers (fridges, freezers, etc) usually have CoP between 2 and 9. TECs traditionally have had CoP of 0.4-0.7 (That is, they produce 2-3 times the heat they transfer).

The catch is that physics behind TECs are non-straightforward, and the CoP is greatly affected by the temperature gradient and voltage. Here you can see interesting image from Electronics Cooling that shows relation of CoP and voltage (in percent of maximum rated voltage) in certain TEC modules:

Image

As you can see, TECs can operate at CoPs greater than 1, even up to the 4-5 while still providing some useful temperature gradient.

So, to show what I think is the idea behind those marketing claims, I made two systems with Kryotherm TEC calculation software. These systems are identical in thermal load and heatsink/fan efficiency, the only difference is that the first one uses single TEC, the second four ones. Both are powered with voltage just enough to keep temperature at 20°C or below all the time.

TECs used in this simulation are Kryotherm DRIFT-0.8s, Qmax 172W, Umax 24.6V, Imax 11.3A, ΔTmax 69°C. I aimed at the same TEC cold side temp (TC), as that is what matters here; in Kryotherm simulator they are simulating coolbox, so ignore the inner HSF. I assumed here heat load of 100W from the processor (which should cover most CPUs silencing enthusiast would considre) and K/W (equals C/W in this context) of 0.2 to the heatsink and fan assembly.

Single TEC system:
Image

Voltage fed: 17V
Power usage of TECs: 137W
CoP: 0.539

Quad TEC system:
Image

Voltage fed: 2.8V
Power usage of TECs: 3.9W
CoP: 5.898

Of course those hi-power TECs cost something like 30€ here, so four of them costs 120€ up-front. But as you can see, you definitely can cool single CPU with them with the PC main power supply, as those guys claim.

Looking at their images and these calculations I assume quad-TEC system is exactly what they are using. It costs a fortune up-front, yes, but it really can give you some bizarre CoP.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:27 am
Posts: 774
Location: Quebec, Canada
Here's another review from ExtremeMhz.

That CeraDyna fan really needs to be replaced, ARX Technology isn't making any quiet fan... The CoolIt pump is supposedly under 15dbA, but it's completely drowned by the fan noise.

_________________
Zalman LQ1000 liquid cooled case + dampening material + PVC tubes + MCP350 with EK top (acetal) and decoupling kit + Nexus 120mm + Xigmatek 200mm + HDD cage removed | Asus Maximus III Formula (ROG) | Intel Core I7 870 + EK Supreme (acetal) | 8GB Kingston | AMD Radeon HD 5850 1GB O/C + EK full cover block (acetal) | Western Digital Black 1TB + NoVibes III + Nexus 120mm (5V) | Seasonic X-850


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:26 pm
Posts: 261
Location: Helsinki, Finland
zds wrote:
Quad TEC system:
Image

Voltage fed: 2.8V
Power usage of TECs: 3.9W
CoP: 5.898


Oops. As the image shows, the 3.9W is for *single* module, so all the modules together eat 15.6W. Voltage and CoP were correct.

Anyway, the main point was that you can increase amount of heat pumped by TECs per Watt ten-fold if you put several of them parallel and undervolt them low enough.

If you can for example double the temperature gradient between heatsink and air with some 18% of extra heat from TECs it's still a good deal.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Freezeone CPU cooler (CoolIT Systems) aka Liquid Chiller
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 9
halcyon wrote:
This was posted about in the Silent Front (Xbox 360 thread), but as it's supposed to be a generic CPU cooler, I think it warrants more exposure:

Image
Image
http://www.coolitsystems.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=26

Price $399.95 US

Granted it's not accurately "water cooling", but it fits better here than in the CPU cooling forum, imho.

Anybody want to test it? Perhaps a SPCR review?

I wonder how the thermal cooling of the TECs work? Sure they can chill the liquid with TECs, but how about the TECs themselves? It has no radiator.


Better late than never, eh?

Myself and a friend tried two of these - a Freezone, and an Eliminator. Both were installed in P180's on QX6700 CPUs. While both did provide big cooling benefits (running 40% overclocked at 50C!!) they were INCREDIBLY noisy, to the point where conversation was difficult in the room.

the pump may or may not be quiet; it was impossible to distinguish what sound was coming from it vs the fan. The (90-mm-ish) fan comes with an adaptor to allow it to fit in a 120mm mounting area. It might be possible to replace it with a more quiet fan, but that wasn't tried.

the system goes in fairly easily, the only caveats are that the instructions should be read carefully from beginning to end before starting, and the diagrams don't always quite sync up with the written instructions.

Mounting the waterblock was fairly simple, and fit easily on an EVGA 680i mobo in a P180 case. I don't have before/after numbers from my kill-o-watt, but the overall power consumption didn't increase dramatically (my system has 4gb, a QX6700, 8800GTX, 2 15k drives and adaptec RAID controller plus 2 DVD burners and never strained the 700w seasonic supply.

After a few weeks of using the system, both of us uninstalled them and went back to aircooling. The noise was simply intolerable, virtually identical to powering on a 2U rackmount server.

In short I'd highly recommend the system to someone who wants to overclock the hell out of a machine, and have the CPU at near-ambient temperatures without messing with tubing and such, but it is not silent by even the wildest stretch of the imagination.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:22 pm
Posts: 14
i bought the freezone and have been obsessed with trying to reduce the noise. I like the fact that it keeps everythign nice and cool but need to chagne the noise somehow. I also bought their MTEC controller so that i can tweak things even more and will be visiting the company's offices to also see what else they have.

One mod that i've made already which doesn't void the warranty unlike a lot of other people's suggestions on other forums is the following. Disconnect the fan cable (the 3 pin that plugs into the TCM control thing). I decided not to use that fan at all or alternatively connect it to a controller or on the mobo and tweak the noise level there. The stock 92mm fan is quite noisy even at low volumes tho. In any case, at the moment i left the fan in there, attached the to 120mm adapter plate and now have mounted a scythe 120mm 64 cfm fan on the outside. Using a bit of weatherstripping from Home Depot and some longer screws and a nut to secure the fan on the outside, the noise level has dropped significantly. I also turned the potentiometer all the way up (coutner clockwise) to increase the heat pumping peltiers.

I suspect I am getting a bit of heat feedback as my scythe fan isn't flowing out as much of the heat as i would like. I may turn down the pot. to see if it gets better as a result. Also I will likely replace the 92mm fan with a 92mm to 120mm fan funnel (this does void the warranty) as then the stopped blades on the 92mm fan would impede the airflow anymore.

I am quite happy with this mod as i can use any quiet fan i want and still get close to the performance of the freezone on high. I may try to add an intake fan that blows onto the heatsink to see if that is better. I suspect my performance is also limited by the fact that it's in a P180 case, which has limited venting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:51 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:30 am
Posts: 151
Location: Beds, UK
what size TECs does this use?

_________________
There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.
My Folds


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group