first experiment in watercooling (Swiftech H20-120 Premium)

echn111 · Post by **echn111** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:28 am

I decided to try out watercooling for the first time, mainly because it looked interesting. Other than the curiosity factor, I was looking into having a very low noise level combined with a powerful system.

So I took the Antec P180 case I use to experiment with (quiet undervolted Papst fans, disk drives in Scythe Quiet Drive cases, GPU card cooled by a fairly quiet Zalman VF900 fan, Big Typhoon CPU cooler, extra sound insulation all over the case etc...)

..then replaced my Thermaltake Big Typhoon CPU air cooler with a Swiftech H20-120 Premium, the model which combines the pump and water reservoir slot into one of my 5.25 drive bays. Other than using my existing quiet fans instead of the Swiftech fans, I installed the kit as per instructions. I planned on watercooling the GPU later on after my initial experiment...

The results?

A dramatic increase in sound.

That 12v pump combined with the sound of water/air flowing through my system makes it sound like a noisy aquarium.

Actually, it's mainly that pump.... I can't wrap the pump in soundproofing as it seems to be an integral part of the water reservior and already is a tight fit in my 5.25 drive bay. The pump does not seem adjustable, and I'm not sure if undervolting it would help.

At this point, I looking for options and suggestions from experts on this board. Am I doing something wrong, or is this noise expected? Is there anything I can do to reduce the noise... Perhaps junk this Swiftech kit and buy individual pumps / reservoirs that can be sound proofed... Undervolt the pump? Get a new one? Or just go back to air cooling which seems to be quieter? Ideas/suggestions?

Thanks in advance...

p.s. One more extremely irritating thing is that once inserted into the waterblock I can't pull out the tubing...I end up cutting it to shreads then simply using a fresh piece of tubing which is most irritating. I guess my technique/patience is lacking so is there an easy way of pulling out tubing...

n00btard · Post by **n00btard** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:53 am

I thought the MCP350 was supposed to be really quiet

did you shake your pump, rad, blocks to make sure that you got rid of all the air in your loop? Trapped air bubbles may be the culprit behind the noisy pump.

...But if you actually made sure you bled all the air out of your loop, then I'm afraid of replacing my Zalman 7000b and Thermalright HR-03 with a watercooling loop

Oh, and according to reports on sites like XS, tubing is really hard to get off the plastic barbs that come with Swiftech kits.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:56 am

If you system sounds like a noisy aquarium, I agree with noobtard that you probably still have a lot of air bubbles in you system. Raising the resevoir higher that the other components will help make the air rise to the top and out through the reservoir. Also, turn the radiator upside down to release any air trapped inside.

The other potential problem is getting rid of pump vibration. If you hold it by the tubing or in your hand, you should get an idea of how quiet it will be with a vibration absorbing mount.

You can probably undervolt your pump. I have an mcp655 with a speed control and have been runing at about 40% with little change in temperature. I'm sure the mcp350 could be undervolted and still provide adequate cooling.

echn111 · Post by **echn111** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:16 pm

Ok, I've twisted and turned my whole computer in all directions and managed to get rid of some air and replace it with more water. The noise from water circulation is minimal.

I've put AcoustiPack material to the left and front of the pump. The top, bottom, right and rear are still exposed, but since the front is the part closest to me, it does help a bit.

What I have now is low frequency rumbling engine noise.

I'll look into undervolting it now... Too bad I can't just adjust the pump speed easily or use a normal fan undervolter...

echn111 · Post by **echn111** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:58 pm

Well, after 2 hours of gaming, my CPU is sitting at 33 c while my GPU has shot up to 65c. With less air circulation going, my HD is at 50 which is quite high but ok.

That's actually pretty good (the CPU temp, not the others).

Too bad about the pump noise...

Also thanks for the feedback/suggestions. Next week I sort out the GPU and look into undervolting the pump... I'm open to more suggestions...

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:14 pm

You still need air circulation for the motherboard, hard drives, and video cards, as you've discovered.

It could take a while for all the air bubbles to bleed out of your system.

I've seen some other threads about the mcp350 in this forum that may be useful.

Also, www.xtremesystems.org has a pretty good water cooling section.

echn111 · Post by **echn111** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:38 pm

I've scanned the messages on the mcp350. Some say it's one of the quietest pumps around and others complain about the noise - it is all a bit inconsistant. Perhaps there are multiple versions. Regardless, I have the latest one from Swiftech, the 12v version that comes with the h2o-120 premium, and I personally consider it to be a rather noisy pump based on actual experience.

Anyway, I'm looking to undervolt the pump and am open to suggestions. Has anyone tried using the T-Balancer bigNG to control the pump noise? It says it can undervolt the pump and as well as the system fans.

(this seems to be a lot of work to simply have a reasonably quiet watercooled system...)

echn111 · Post by **echn111** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:13 am

Ok the message boards recommend getting the MCP350/Liang DDC with the Alphacool plexitop. Some people say it's still noisy, others say it's almost silent, but everyone agrees it helps.

Does anyone know where to buy this? I cannot find the top seperately - the only thing I see in the UK is the Alphacool Laing DDC 12V Pump & Plexitop costing another 65 GBP (127 USD).

I've already spent 250 USD on a very basic entry level kit. Now I'm looking to spend 200+ USD just making it more quiet (i.e. 125 USD on this recommended plexitop version, and 90 USD for the T-Balancer...).

Now I don't mind spending 200+ USD if I'm sure of results, but I'm rather uncertain and there is a lot of inconsistancy on the noise issue surrounding the MCP350 (50% say one of quietest pump ever, 50% say too noisy...). So, will spending this 200+ USD give me a significantly quieter work environment? Is it worth it? (alternatively for 200 USD, does anyone know of a good pump that 95%, not just 50%, of people agree is very quiet)

(and then there is the cost of cooling the CPU and the motherboard chipset...)

unimatrix0 · Post by **unimatrix0** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:47 pm

Hey I feel you pain. I had the same kit that you have and I have to say that the reservoir plus that pump is a disaster in noise. First of all your problem is likely to be the fact that the MCP350 is the 18W version rather than the quieter 10W (please check on the label of the pump to confirm). Second, the reservoir is one of the worst I've used, it's hard to take bubles out, and it's way too noisy.

So, solution? The best would be to get rid of the reservoir, sell the pump on ebay, and get the 10W MCP350(also known as DDC) with the plexi top. Then put some foam between the pump and the chasis, so that you dampen vibrations. The pump should now be near silent.

Alternatively, at least get another reservoir, and buy the plexi top, and mount the pump elsewhere. Even at 18W, if you have the plexi top it'll dampen sound a lot, and mounting it elsewhere will make a difference too.

n00btard · Post by **n00btard** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:08 pm

echn111 wrote: (alternatively for 200 USD, does anyone know of a good pump that 95%, not just 50%, of people agree is very quiet)

Innovatek HPPS+ has 2m pressure head, 132GPH, 3W AVG power consumption. At least that's what they claim...

it's a variant of the Eheim 1046

Marci · Post by **Marci** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:58 am

The standalone Alphacool top, compatible with ALL revisions of DDC pump, can be purchased in the UK over yonder: http://store.over-clock.com/Pumps___Acc ... .html#a746

And yep, the combined pump & res in Swiftech's DriveBay adapter does make a hell of a row - vibration passed and amplified thru the mounting plates to the drive uprights to the rest of the case... It's something that I've always considered as a bad implementation (other than for convenience).

HammerSandwich · Post by **HammerSandwich** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:31 am

echn111 wrote:What I have now is low frequency rumbling engine noise.

That's almost certainly chassis noise caused by vibration. unimatrix0 and marci are giving good advice.

echn111 · Post by **echn111** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:01 pm

Thanks all and I will be following these recommendations. I have just ordered a number of new parts from http://store.over-clock.com including:

- the Laing DDC Alphacool Plexitop
- a new DangerDen 5.25" Bay Reservoir.
- the Swiftech MCW60 GPU block
- 5 feet of Tygon 3/8" tubing

I think I have the 12v MCP350, so rather than replace the entire pump, I will replace the pump top with the plexitop, but will keep the pump seperate to the reservoir, most likely in the middle HD bay of my P180 case. This will let me use insulating material to keep the pump seperate to the chassis.

And I'll throw out the wasted tubing and reservior that came with the original Swiftech.

I really hope that the same nosiy pump can be made quiet under these circumstances.

If this happens, and the pump is actually fairly quiet (and I don't know this for sure yet), what it means is that the Swiftech H2O-120 premium is a terrible piece of kit with simply awful design. I should have realized that any kit that attaches a vibrating pump directly to hard plastic that then presses directly this against the case is going to have issues... I can't believe that the H2O-120 premium got so many good reviews claiming it was quiet.

Marci · Post by **Marci** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:13 am

You have to look at when those reviews were written. That particular kit was released quite some time ago, when heatsink/fan combos were much noisier, so at the time it was quiet relatively speaking to the HSFs that folks were using... Reviews don't often hold up to the test of time - the end-user compares the review vs what's available NOW, but back at the time of writing the reviewer didn't have the luxury of comparing with devices etc available in the future...

So yes, in it's day it was quiet. These days, far from it. It is a relatively old spec'd kit... the Apex series from Swiftech is their current kit and is quieter than the one you're currently using.

echn111 · Post by **echn111** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:26 am

Ok, have replaced the top part of the DDC/MCP350 with the Alphacool plexitop and am using the top port as the inflow.

Added the GPU cooler to my loop.

Threw out the (terrible) H2O-120 premium reservoir that normally is attached to the pump and am using a dangerden fillport reservoir connected to a T-piece and keeping it separate to the pump, which I keep on a piece of foam.

Replaced my tubing with heavy duty tygon tubing.

It's really quiet now! Not completely because I still have 3 (non-undervolted) fans running and the air bubbles are still being drained (seems to take a while using a t-piece and fillport but the air is being slowly drained). But the important thing is that pump is now extremely quiet so all I have to do is optimize my fan system and it will be quieter than my air cooled system. With the added bonus of a cooler CPU and GPU.

Lesson learned: picking good individual parts is better than buying a ready-made watercooling kit. It may be less convenient and take more effort but will give better results.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:08 am

That's good news. What made the most difference in your opinion? Did the alphacool top help? Are you running the pump at 12v? Thx.

echn111 · Post by **echn111** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:09 am

frankgehry wrote:That's good news. What made the most difference in your opinion? Did the alphacool top help? Are you running the pump at 12v? Thx.

Seperating the pump from the reservoir, and then placing placing it on a soft foam cushion made the most difference. That takes case of the pump vibrations.

I believe that the heavy alphacool top helped in reducing the actual noise from the pump, but because I changed so many things at the same time, I'm not sure exactly how much it helped by. Regardless, the result is that the pump itself is very quiet.

And yes, I'm running the pump at the stock 12v.