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 Post subject: My Silent (hopefully) H2O cooling setup idea - Opinions
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:55 pm 
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Used to cool a

EVGA 680i NB / SB
C2D 6600
EVGA 8800GTX

Ok silence is very important to me, here is what im thinking:

- Ehime 600 Station II Pump / Reso runs 600 litre/hr (158 gal/hr)

http://www.arcticmod.com/computer-mo...fit-all-id.htm


- CPU Block DD TDX

http://www.pcextreme.com/catalog/sku/ex-blc-231.html

- NB / SB Blocks DD 680 i Maze 4 (I willl have 2 mod the SB block)

http://www.pcextreme.com/catalog/sku/ex-blc-343.html

- 8800 GTX cooled by EK full cover block (already have)

- Radiator Black Ice® GT Stealth 240- Dual 120 fans, two pass radiator

http://www.svc.com/bi-gts-240bk.html


Ill need tubing to but this is the guts, I am going to run 1/2 inch fittings.

I would really like feedback on the Ehime 600 station II pump, how quiet is it , anyone used it ?

I am, going to undervolt my fans to keep thier noise down and as fas as the PSU im running a Seasonic 650HT ( thanks SPCR recommended PSU article) which rocks !!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:41 pm 
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I would choose from the following:

swiftech mcp655, mcp350, or mcp355 pump
apogee gt or d-tek fuzion cpu block

Most people would advise against watercooling chipsets (nb/sb).

I like the black ice gts, but there are some others to consider.

I would search for the threads at spcr about the swiftech mcp350 (laing ddc), and I would also read the watercooling stickies at http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/

I use 7/16 od tygon tubing. Read about tubing options at xtremesystems.

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(Retired: XP-120, FSP530-60GNA, Antec SP2.0 500W, Antec SLK3000B)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:52 pm 
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frankgehry wrote:
I would choose from the following:

swiftech mcp655, mcp350, or mcp355 pump
apogee gt or d-tek fuzion cpu block

Most people would advise against watercooling chipsets (nb/sb).

I like the black ice gts, but there are some others to consider.

I would search for the threads at spcr about the swiftech mcp350 (laing ddc), and I would also read the watercooling stickies at http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/

I use 7/16 od tygon tubing. Read about tubing options at xtremesystems.


I know chipset cooling is taboo but it is a must on the 680i MOBO, the NB/SB get hella hot. EVGA specifically states they need to be cooled with a fan at least especially if you are h2o cooling the rest of the system


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:00 pm 
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Location: New York, NY
Yeah, I agree they need to be cooled. You still need air flow to cool hard drives, psu, and chipsets.

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e8400, Corsair XMS2-5400, Asus 8400GS, Gigabyte EP45-UD3R, Chenbro SR209/Nexus 120, T-Balancer, Enhance ENP-5150GH 500W, Seagate 7200.7 160MB
(Retired: XP-120, FSP530-60GNA, Antec SP2.0 500W, Antec SLK3000B)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:30 pm 
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Location: New York, NY
Did you see these posts?

680i
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=37764

mcp350
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=31430

_________________

e8400, Corsair XMS2-5400, Asus 8400GS, Gigabyte EP45-UD3R, Chenbro SR209/Nexus 120, T-Balancer, Enhance ENP-5150GH 500W, Seagate 7200.7 160MB
(Retired: XP-120, FSP530-60GNA, Antec SP2.0 500W, Antec SLK3000B)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:34 pm 
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Location: UK
frankgehry makes good suggestions. The Laing DDC (aka MCP350) is one of the more popular and "proven" pumps around. It's also known for its quietness. After a few mistakes, mine is now quiet and works well. I haven't heard many people recommend the Ehime pump and I would hesitate to use a pump that most enthusiasts do not use or recommend.

I'd go with frankgehry's suggestions on the CPU blocks. As per the system listed in my sig, I have an Apogee. But if I were in your position, I'd pick the new D-TEK FuZion CPU block. It's similar to the Apogee but has lower restriction.

Your NB choice is sound, and I'd definately watercool the NB on a 680i board using that block.

However, I'd hestitate to mod the SB when there are other solutions. I currently use an Alphacool NexXxos and it works but could have done better in hindsight. If I had to do it again, I'd either pick something like the "EK NF4 Rev 1.1 Chipset Cooler" as it has less flow restriction OR just go passive cooling here with something like the "Thermalright HR-05 SLI". I can't vouch completely for these two solutions as I do not have firsthand experience, but they are worth looking into.

Good luck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:51 pm 
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Thanks, I did get the D-TEK FuZion for the cpu, and for the SB i got the
Alphacool NexXxos. I will go with the 680i maze 4 for the NB. As far as the pump I reall really want a quiet pump. I plan to run a radiator with three 120's (maybe 2) on it but at low voltage to keep noise down. That way hopefully it will be silent.

I know thier are variations of the DCC pump. I was considering this one but I cant find much info on the noise of it.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=4508

Also I heard that adding the Reso top to it reduces noise. Any opinions on this pump ? I really, really want a quiet set up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:23 pm 
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Yup that 12v Liang DDC (aka MCP350) pump is quiet if you keep it isolated. I've got mine sitting on the bottom of my PC, sitting on a foam cushion, and held in place by my tygon tubing and the foam. And that thick plexitop doesn't hurt. Once the bubbles are out of the system it is quiet. Like any pump it isn't totally silent, but it is very quiet, and once I close my case, I cannot hear it.

You're going to have a fairly restrictive flow given the full cover GPU block combined with the other blocks. That pump should still be ok, but if you're going to overclocking a lot maybe consider the more powerful 18v Liang DDC+ (aka MCP355). It's slightly noiser though. On the other hand, one benefit of a more restrictive flow, is that it does ensure less noise. Just a CPU block in the loop will make for a more noisy system than one with multiple blocks. Mine is very quiet now that I have multiple blocks.

p.s. I used to undervolt my papst fans, but found that I can run my Nexus fans at stock speeds and still have a quiet system.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:36 pm 
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Location: UK
Here's a link to a translated link on pump size and noise comparision that does cover the DDC pump:

http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=18864

It describes pump performance as well as noise level. Page 15 also gives you mp3's for you to hear.

Sound Analysis (at 3.9" distance):
Image


Pumps @12v Noise Level
AquaXtreme 50Z 43.5
AquaXtreme 150Z 42.5
Asetek Waterchill Xtreme 39.5
Dangerden D4 51.5
Dangerden D5 < 35 | < 35 | 35 | 36 | 37.5
Dangerden CSP-MAG 38.5
Eheim 1046 35
Eheim 1048 35.5
Laing DDC < 35


The Laing's are quiet. So are the Eheim's, but the Laing's are far better performers.


Flow:
Image

Pressure:
Image


p.s. to increase performance use the top intake of the DDC not the side. That's easy to do if you have the one with the Alphacool plexitop.[/img]


Last edited by echn111 on Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:42 pm 
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WOW thanks thats just what I needed 35<dBa is still a bit loud IMO but if thats the best there is I'll take it and try to isolate the pump in the case cutting down on noise. The case is a TT Armor

My loop will be something like this

pump - rad - cpu - vga - sb - nb - pump

I know cooling the sb / nb is not popular here but I do not want to use any small screamer fans at all. Also b/c i only plan to have low speed fans on the RAD case airflow will be low, to low to passivly cool the nb/sb especially on the 680i mobo.

I am not planning on overclocking so i think this set up will work ok. What do you all think, any opinions. I still need to get the radiator


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:06 pm 
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Location: UK
fryin'mypc wrote:
WOW thanks thats just what I needed 35<dBa is still a bit loud


That's the sound level at just 3.9" inches (10 cm) away. And it is completely unbaffled. At a yard away, it's ultra silent. Put it in a case, and you'll have a difficult time hearing it.

If you're comparing it to the manufacturers' noise level claims, especially fan makers, please keep in mind they measure sound from a lot further away under favourable conditions to come up with their exaggerated sound levels.

Anyway I can't hear my Laing DDC.

As for radiators, many people think that the Thermochill PA series are among the best if you can afford it. They were optimized to to work with slower (i.e. more quiet) fans but do well under any conditions. I might be biased because I have one, but read up on it. Main disadvantage is price as it's made in the UK.

p.s. you can still moderately overclock without any increase in noise, just not to extreme levels. Might as well with that kit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:14 pm 
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Which should I get I think it comes down to regular DCC vs Ultra DCC the ultra has a psi head of 4.7m and the regular DCC has a psi head of 3.7m. If they are the same noise I would go with the higher psi head.


Alphacool Laing DCC 12V pro


http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=4508


Alpha Cool Laing DCC 12V pro water tank

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=4510


Alphacool Laing DCC 12v Ultra (higher head i think )

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=4509


Alphacool Laing DCC 12v Ultra water tank

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=4511


The ultra's are higher power (a higher head) but what about noise, anyone used the ultra version ?


Also as far as the tank goes I think I will go with the smaller of the two so I can isolate it in a drive bay and try to sound proof it a bit.

opinions welcom, thanks for your help !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:57 pm 
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echn111 wrote:
fryin'mypc wrote:
WOW thanks thats just what I needed 35<dBa is still a bit loud


That's the sound level at just 3.9" inches (10 cm) away. And it is completely unbaffled. At a yard away, it's ultra silent. Put it in a case, and you'll have a difficult time hearing it.

If you're comparing it to the manufacturers' noise level claims, especially fan makers, please keep in mind they measure sound from a lot further away under favourable conditions to come up with their exaggerated sound levels.

Anyway I can't hear my Laing DDC.

As for radiators, many people think that the Thermochill PA series are among the best if you can afford it. They were optimized to to work with slower (i.e. more quiet) fans but do well under any conditions. I might be biased because I have one, but read up on it. Main disadvantage is price as it's made in the UK.

p.s. you can still moderately overclock without any increase in noise, just not to extreme levels. Might as well with that kit.



Hey our setups are quite close. What kind of temps are you getting. I was trying to decide bewteen a 120x2 rad or a 120x3 rad. Do you have a good amount of "cooling reserve" in that system, you know not stressed out at all.

Also this website has Yate Loon 120mm Fans for 3.50 a good deal
http://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-120mm ... -3009.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:32 pm 
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Use a single pass radiator like the Black Ice GTS that was already mentioned, the reason for this is the fin density is lower then dual pass thus requiring less air pressure to push or pull air through. In sort they will work better with low speed fans.

Do not bother with the chipset blocks, again they will likely do more harm then good, you will need a bigger pump that produces more heat due to the added restriction of the extra watter blocks. But if you still feel the need to WC the chipset at minimum drop the SB wb, with the SB block your just waisting money and causing yourself some unneeded hassle. (Yes I know I'm beating a dead horse about the chipset cooling.)
The 680i chipset is (stupidly) hot compared to other mobo chipsets, but if a Zalman NB cooler can easily handle my Nforce4 (AMD) chipset then a Thermalright is more then enough for a 680i. (Remember your posting on a site that people cool 80w+ cpu's passively with low speed case fans.)

Also if your not going to run SLI and you have not bought the mobo already then save allot of money and buy a Intel chipset based mobo.

And one more note use a T-Line, its more of a pain bled the system but there is less chance of spilling watter, and you will not have the small amount of noise that is caused by watter flowing into a reservoir.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:43 pm 
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z3r0 wrote:
Use a single pass (Remember your posting on a site that people cool 80w+ cpu's passively with low speed case fans.)


Thanks for the RAD advice, I will eventually run SLI but not for a while. As far as that post thing, I have no idea what thats about, I never posetd that.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:44 pm 
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fryin'mypc wrote:
Hey our setups are quite close. What kind of temps are you getting. I was trying to decide bewteen a 120x2 rad or a 120x3 rad. Do you have a good amount of "cooling reserve" in that system, you know not stressed out at all.


Been a bit busy and there are problems with my video card.

Get the PA120.3 if you can! I only got a PA120.2 because it's a great fit for my case. I have it in front and the airflow cools my whole computer as well as the radiator.

Anyway, ran the Everest stability tests stresssing CPU/FPU/cashes/system memory for 8 hours. Ambient is 20, and my system temp range taken in the last few hours after water temps stablized are:

CPU 29 (no stress) - 34 (stress)
core 0: 34 to 41
core 1: 34 to 41
MCP: 25 (that's from the BIOS as quickly as I could get there after an 8 hour run. If anyone knows a way to check this from Windows, please let me know)
GPU temps were less accurate: 34 before playing a game, 39 during.

Really need to take temps with my 8800gtx in the loop rather than the 7600 card which my MCW60 w/G80 adaptor is attached to (RMA with EVGA is running into 'complications'). Still I'm content with these temps for now as I believe that there is room for mild overclocking even with that 8800 GTX in the loop.


Last edited by echn111 on Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:55 pm 
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While waiting for my video card to get fixed, I upgraded my CPU block to a D-Tek fuZion and my SB block to the EK NF4 Rev 1.1.

Since it hasn't come in and it will be a while, I decided to assemble my new loop with these blocks anyway. Here're some pics. (And yes, I realize that the loop order is theorectically in reverse. Just went for a reasonably clean loop.)


Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:59 pm 
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Sweet setup! Dont worry about the 'theoretical' order that your machine is not following, unless you care about the 0.2 or so temp difference there might be, a neat loop is much nicer IMO. I see you are using the Dtek, are you actually using your orings or did you silicone the barbs? With the barbs I got with mine orings really didnt have anywhere to seat and would squish out on the outlet port. I got rid of the orings and just siliconed the threads, seemed safer that way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:59 am 
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z3r0 wrote:
Use a single pass radiator like the Black Ice GTS that was already mentioned, the reason for this is the fin density is lower then dual pass thus requiring less air pressure to push or pull air through.
Huh? What does single/double pass have to do with fin density?

echn111, that's an attractive build. Seeing that your rear Nexus is an intake, which direction do the radiator fans blow? How open is the rad's grille (on the front side of the case)?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:26 am 
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HammerSandwich wrote:
z3r0 wrote:
Use a single pass radiator like the Black Ice GTS that was already mentioned, the reason for this is the fin density is lower then dual pass thus requiring less air pressure to push or pull air through.
Huh? What does single/double pass have to do with fin density?

echn111, that's an attractive build. Seeing that your rear Nexus is an intake, which direction do the radiator fans blow? How open is the rad's grille (on the front side of the case)?


Thanks. It is an unusual case. The outflow is on top of the PC next to the PSU and out of view. There is no open rad grill in front in order to keep sound down. Instead the front two fans hidden in front of the the radiator, are indeed inflows, but actually pull air from the "sides" (close to the back) of the case to keep noise to a minimum.

As for the exposed Nexus fan, it is acting as an intake optimised to cool the CPU in an aircooled system, but that's going to change. I plan on flipping it around and making it a traditional outflow and removing the (unseen) outflow fan on top - that would make it more efficient for a W/C system.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:13 am 
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echn111 wrote:
I plan on flipping it around and making it a traditional outflow and removing the (unseen) outflow fan on top - that would make it more efficient for a W/C system.
Watch out for increased noise when the PSU has to breathe hot air.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:04 pm 
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AndyM wrote:
Sweet setup! Dont worry about the 'theoretical' order that your machine is not following, unless you care about the 0.2 or so temp difference there might be, a neat loop is much nicer IMO. I see you are using the Dtek, are you actually using your orings or did you silicone the barbs? With the barbs I got with mine orings really didnt have anywhere to seat and would squish out on the outlet port. I got rid of the orings and just siliconed the threads, seemed safer that way.


I agree - a clean loop minimizing excess tubing is better than a convoluted setup with a theoretical ideal loop order. Water speeds by the blocks so fast it makes almost no difference.

With regards to the Fuzion, mine came with the barbs came pre-attached from the vendor. Whoever put them on did a pretty good job so I'm just using the standard o-rings. No leaks and they work fine. (With my old Apogee, I did silicone the barbs until I was told I needed to deliberately 'squish' the o-rings)


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