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 Post subject: Watercooling?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2003 9:33 pm 
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Location: Madison, WI, USA
I've been considering components I'd like to place in my next computer, and one idea I've been considering is watercooling. It has the potential for quiet cooling and overclockability, and since I'm planning on going to college in Madison, Wisconsin next year, sticking my radiator out the window could result it peltier/phase change temps :) ( I don't think the temps there break 0c the entire winter).

Anyways, I was wondering if anyone could suggest guides on watercooling, and about its cost. I'd like to get as much on waterblocks as possible, especially the HDs- get them watercooling and I can go with a pretty extreme rubber box :) (If I could figure out a way, suspending them in a low air pressure container would be pretty quiet :) )


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 Post subject: Re: Watercooling?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:54 am 
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Zhentar wrote:
I've been considering components I'd like to place in my next computer, and one idea I've been considering is watercooling. It has the potential for quiet cooling and overclockability, and since I'm planning on going to college in Madison, Wisconsin next year, sticking my radiator out the window could result it peltier/phase change temps :) ( I don't think the temps there break 0c the entire winter).

Anyways, I was wondering if anyone could suggest guides on watercooling, and about its cost. I'd like to get as much on waterblocks as possible, especially the HDs- get them watercooling and I can go with a pretty extreme rubber box :) (If I could figure out a way, suspending them in a low air pressure container would be pretty quiet :) )


There is hardocp for one. Usual recommendation goes back and forth between swiftech and danger den. I personally went with DD as their site is very easy to navigate (to add/ remove components) as well as sales people willing to bend to my whim :)
CPU/GPU/CHIPSET cooling is the standard fare. You can cool HDD if you go innovatek or koolance route, but those are not as heavy hitters where performance is involved.
Otherwise, you are left with your own milling/dremel/homedepot runs for creating HDD cooler. (which I am in process of for next few days).
Tubings, I got 1/2" ID (inner diameter) tubing but this thing is a monster to install in mid size case. For midsize case, I recommend 3/8" ID tubing. (Anything smaller tend to restrict flow quite a bit which is the case with koolance and innovatek kit as they are 3/8" OD tubing if I am not mistaken)
Pump choices vary.. I stuck with Eheim 1048. On top of foam from a feet away, this makes as much noise as... cuda IV on novibe3 a feet away.
Radiator - automotive heatcore seems to be popular choice for those dremel inclined people here. I just got Black Ice Extreme to save me sometime. Works good with Papst 120mm slow fan. (41-42c folding at 27c room temp with my overclock).
BTW, I have DD maze 3 & Z-chip & GPU block on my system right now all in serial. Now if you go for multiple radiator, it is recommended those radiators are in parellel.
For the HDD cooler my plan is this:

1/2" copper tubing from Homedepot.
4 1/2" brass splitter from Homedepot.
4x10" 40 gauge cooper plate from hobby people (KS metal or something was manufacture).
Bungee cord from Homedepot.
1/2" ID silicon(?) tubing.

Going to cut copper plate into half. Drill holes for HDD mounting.
Solder/artic silver adhesive the copper tubing to each side of plate.
Put brass splitter in each end of tubing. (and solder the seam)
For one side of tubings I will run 1/2" ID tube.
The other side are inlet and outlet from rest of system.
suspend it in 5 1/4" bay using bungee cord.

I will let you guys know how it turns out :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:59 am 
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Location: Madison, WI, USA
Thanks for the tips. I think I'll go with danger den, their acrylic waterblocks look cooler. I've sure got my priorities straight, heh :)

Another question, any suggestions for dealing with condensation? If I were to stick the radiatior out the window and have the CPU 15C over ambient, (I'd probably do better though, stick it out the window and the noise tolerance goes up a bit :) ) the temps would still be at least 10 or 15 degrees less than room temperature.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:26 pm 
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Zhentar wrote:
Thanks for the tips. I think I'll go with danger den, their acrylic waterblocks look cooler. I've sure got my priorities straight, heh :)

Another question, any suggestions for dealing with condensation? If I were to stick the radiatior out the window and have the CPU 15C over ambient, (I'd probably do better though, stick it out the window and the noise tolerance goes up a bit :) ) the temps would still be at least 10 or 15 degrees less than room temperature.


There are some dew point calculation based on temp difference and ambient vs humidity. Quite frankly, your water temp won't get that low to create a dew point even when raining is my guess. Now, if it is freezing winter out there... it might be different story (even than, I don't think water will get too much cooler than room temp to cause dew point).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:13 pm 
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Well, the lake nearby freezes over for the winter and stays that way for quite some time, I'm not sure if the temps will break 0C. Until then its a moot point though; I want to either put an 800mhz FSB prescott or an Athlon 64 in my comp or else I don't feel there's enough new to justify a new comp.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:26 am 
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Location: United States, Mobile, AL
Ok I just checked dangerden out and watercooling is alot cheaper than I thought. Is there any reason to not go the watercooling route? I mean for under $200. its not that expensive really. Hell most of us have spent close to $100 on GPU and CPU heatsinks and fans already. Is there any really danger of condensation? Whats the best middle to highend kit to get if your going for a fast and quiet watercooled computer?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:08 am 
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Location: Southampton, UK
Zhentar, I live in Canada, so I understand the kind of cold you are talking about. I was actually just thinking this morning that I should stick my radiator outside because it's so cold here 6 months of the year. I think condensation WILL be a problem for you, so make sure you take steps before hand to see what will happen and test it lots BEFORE you stick it on your rig!

You need insulation. If you don't want water dripping off your hoses, you'll probably need to wrap them in foam or rubber or something. Also, consider some antifreeze, because when your computer is off, the water in the radiator could easily freeze, and then you're screwed.

Read this article http://www.octools.com/index.cgi?caller=articles/socket_condensation/intro.html for some basics. This page http://www.overclockers.co.nz/product/watercool/info.shtml has some more links. Good luck! And make sure you let us know how it goes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:46 pm 
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Location: MN
Madison WI is VERY cold. I'm in MN myself so i know the bitter cold you're talking about.

Just place the rad outside with a couple of Comair Rotron 172mm fans at full volume and you'll have a blast! :D

And it'll (yes, even your water and if you're lucky, your CPU) definitely get below 32°F so be sure to have some antifreeze in there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:59 pm 
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GamingGod- there's no danger of condensation at all if you use room temperature air on your radiator. The risk of it is leaking tubes- this one depends on care and patience; if you are careful you can avoid leaks. Also, water wetter is good to stop the other risk- corrosion.

Wussboy- I'm thinking the better solution would be a way to get the case temps down low enough that things don't have condensation. either some ducting, though that would make things look worse probably, or, the one I'm thinking about is pretty much sealing the case and then have the 120mm fan in the fortron blow air through a second radiator, so it would go pump->radiator(outside)->radiator(case)->waterblocks->reservoir/pump. This would have the downside of having to rig up a new mounting for the PSU; and slighty warmer CPU temps after the case cooled down, but it would keep the inside cool with low noise from a single 120mm fan running things in a sealed case, with my friend convection. But best of all, I'd like the irony of the improved heat transfer of an aluminum case being a disadvantage :). And also, anti freeze in the water was a no brainer :) It could be an interesting brew; water wetter + anti freeze + UV dye :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:52 pm 
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I think if you use a big radiator, there is no need to leave it outside the house - even when using no fan. I'm using watercooling for nearly two years now with no fan on the radiator. CPU/GPU look at my sig.

Regards, Padde.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:56 pm 
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Posts: 241
My sentiments exactly... should have jumped to H2O earlier and saved some dough....
(I bet I will say same thing with vaporchill in next few months... endless cycle it seems).
Danger Dan kit is great... I am kind of impartial on GPU cooler at this point. (not too effective from what I can see unless there is chiller in equation).
Or Swiftech is fine too.
My recommendation for big cases (I mean BIG) are 1/2" ID tubing and smaller cases (mid ATX down) are 3/8" ID tubing. 1/2" tubing in mid ATX can become nightmare with other wires around....
Oh... for radiator, I found putting fan in front of and behind radi instead of on either and running it a lower speed decreases noise level and improved performance.
You can get decent setup for $200 easy either way you go. (BTW, reservoir's are worthless other than convenience factor on intial installation and bleeding... it takes additional space on your system too).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:04 pm 
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padde- you need to work on your ambition! of course theres no need to leave it outside, but there's no need for watercooling at all. But whats the fun of not messing around to get temps as low as possible?

jinu117- I dunno about the GPU cooler, I'll be wanting one for the GeForce FX, since that things a real heat monster. (I know the radeon is overall better, but I want the linux drivers that nvidia has). The case I'm going for is the Kingwin KT-436BK-WM, the first one on this page: http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=KT+436 . As for fans on the radiator, I intend to do a good deal of testing with that just for fun.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 2:11 pm 
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Kingwin case... eh? Great choice as far as cooling is involved. Location of radiator probably should be outside the comp if you can bear with the looks... noise level is also lower if you put it behind your comp.
Passive cooling on GPU will work fine in this cool case. (as long as you don't OC). By keeping radiator out, you also lower the ambient temp by few degrees compared to keeping it in case.
3/8 ID is highly recommended just due to size of case from me though... (I got all mine 1/2" and there is no turning back now for me... sigh.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:38 am 
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*lol*
Hm... ok, i thought we're talking about _silent_ PCs - that's why I posted my comment.

Regards, Padde.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:29 pm 
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Padde- we're talking about powerful silent PCs padde, we wan't to get the as cool and as powerful as silent possibly can. Says so on the front page :)

Jinu117- its got a window, I'll have to bear with the looks inside or out, and I've always planned on keeping the radiator outside the case so I can play with its location and such for better cooling, and hide it too :). I'm not gonna go for passive on the GPU, too limiting power-wise, I'd like to overclock and draw as much heat out of the case as possible. I'd like to have just a 1 fan system, probably a Fortron 120mm PSU, and maybe, if it doesn't affect the sound too much, a couple NMB intake fans over the hard drives. But thats assuming I don't rig up an HD watercooler. I'm also gonna go with 1/2" tubing, I've seen it all fit in smaller cases and I'm not sure if I'll put even the pump or the reservoir in the case. I need to get as much OC power as possible, I'm spending all my CPU/GPU money on the case and watercooling :) (My logic there is all my components will be ridiculously obselete in a month anyways, I'll spend the money on things that last much longer)


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