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 Post subject: Watercooling Upgrade Advice
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 pm 
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I'm currently running a Koolance PC2-450, with the exception of the three top fans having been changed into two 14cm Aerocools. The entire system is running on 1/4" tubing using a CPU300 and a GPU180 waterblock cooling an X2 4200+ and an NF4 northbridge.

It's doing a perfectly fine job at the minute, however I'm planning on making two major changes.

First, I'm going to change out the two default pumps as they are very noisy, for a quieter pump. I was considering the Eheim 12v 600 II as apparantly this is as quiet as pumps get.

Second, I was going to watercool my x1900xtx graphics card. I was considering the D-TEK FuZion GFX Cooler and a Mosfet Cooler as getting a whole card block would prevent upgrading, and I know that the voltage regulator gets very hot.

I'm concerned that my current radiator won't be able to handle this load, as I am unsure about how many watts the 1900 cards put out. I was therefore also considering upgrading to a ThermoChill PA120.2 rad. If it's avoidable however, money saved is always a bonus.

On a side note, people seem to be advising upgrading to 1/2" tubing, however every decent pump I have found uses 1/4"" threads, so surely thicker tubes wouldn't make any difference?

So, any advice or recommended changes are welcome!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Well, i don't know what that koolance rad looks like...but the thermochill PA120.2 is probably the best 120x2 rad out there...

It can definitely handle 4200+, NF4, and x1900xtx loop

I would advise you not to get the D-Tek FuZion GFX cooler...its design is horrible, since it has a separate chamber above (see pic below):
Image
Because the water is pulled into a mini reservoir area, then to the actual cooling chamber, this block will add some serious restriction to your loop...
If you don't want a body block, get the Swiftech MCW60. It is a hell lot better at cooling. I'm not sure those copper memory blocks will work passive, but any circulating air around it should help...

*The D-Tek FuZion CPU block though is superb, if you haven't gotten a CPU block yet

And yes, 1/2" tubing will have better performance than 1/4", but not a huge deal. If you have to use 1/4" tubing, i guess it's ok...but i would get 1/2" if you can (switch out barbs, etc..) One great pump that is highly popular that uses 1/2" barbs is the Swiftech MCP650.

But yeah, if you don't plan on overclocking and don't need the absolute best temps, the thermochill 120.2 probably isn't worth the price when you can just get a swiftech or danger den rad for a third of the price. But i would recommend you get a MCW60 instead of the FuZion, and 1/2" tubing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:33 pm 
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Thanks for the prompt reply laguz1. The Koolance rad actually scores quite well on low cfm fans, so i'm going to test it and post temps before considering upgrading to the p120.2. I've decided to change to the Swiftech MCW60 based on your advice and some googling. I was looking at cooling the gfx card ram with passive copper ram sinks, and the voltage regs with the Alphacool Mosfet Cooler. Can anyone else watercooling an x1900 confirm whether this is necessary? I don't really want to have to rig up fans to cool the vreg as that would defeat the purpose of this upgrade.

As for the pump, how is the MCP650 for noise? I've been looking at the Eheim 12v 600, the Laing DDC 12v Pro, and the Swifttech MCP350 12v. Like I said, my primary reason for changing my pump is the noise, as the Koolance pumps are so low flow pretty much anything I buy will be an improvement, so I'm going for silence on this one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:03 am 
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For the pumps...don't get the MCP350 if you have a three part loop - cpu, gpu, nf4. That pump probably won't work efficiently enough...

Oh, and are you getting a reservoir? or T-line?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:17 pm 
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I'm undecided on the matter of a resevoir. I've read that using a resevoir can hurt flow rates on low flow pumps, so I figured I'd just go with a T-line. I have however seen a pretty cheap deal on the XSPC 150mm Passive Aluminium Reservoir, but I can't seem to find any decent reviews indicating whether it would give any real benefit to my temperatures.

I'm going to get the Laing-DDC 12V Pro with the acrylic top as it seems a very popular pump and is supposed to be practically silent without any adjustments. It's rated at 420lph but has a very high head pressure, which I gather can be more important. There is a version with a resevoir attached, would this be advisable instead? I've also just noticed that the non acrylic top version comes with 3/8" connectors instead of 1/4". How much noisier is the non acrylic top?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:46 pm 
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T-line has that space-saving feature, and easy refill maintenance, but when you first bleed the system for air, a T-Line can take quite some time.

Reservoirs also allow more liquid to circulate, and therefore, dropping temps slightly over longer periods of time.

Is this the pump w/ reservoir you're talking about?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=4511

And...which one has no acrylic top? All of the Laing DDC 12v Pro, reservoir or no reservoir, have acrylic tops on them. The acrylic top factor shouldn't determine whether a pump is noisy or not (unless poor manufacturing makes it rattle) - its the actual motor itself. Laing makes great pumps - it makes the Swiftech MCP655 one.

If you're worried about the connectors, the standard fittings is usually 3/8", but thats only the size on the pump/reservoir, etc. You can get fittings that are i.e. 3/8" to 1/2". 3/8" or 1/2" is alright.

Just a random question, but are you doing internal liquid cooling system? or external? or half-and-half?

Since T-line or reservoir are both ok, it just matters on what case and how you configure it. What case are you planning to WC in?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:17 pm 
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I've seen three versions of the Laing DDC 12v Pro:

http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/product.php?productid=2113&cat=537&page=1
http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/product.php?productid=1954&cat=537&page=1
http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/product.php?productid=2723&cat=537&page=1

Apparantly the all black one is slightly noisier than the ones with the clear tops. Don't ask me why, I can only assume the material is more prone to vibration.

I'm currently using an internal watercooling setup, and I was hoping to keep it that way. I've already got a large enough hole cut in the top of my case to accomodate 2x120mm fans for a rad. You can see the case I'm using here:

http://www.extrememhz.com/koolPC2-650-p1.shtml

It's just the Koolance PC2-650, without the stupid front door design. I've also chopped off the three fan thing on the top and replaced it with a pair of 14cm fans. As you can see, it's got plenty of space inside, although I'm unsure as to where I would fit a resevoir unless it was attached to the pump. If I bought the passive resevoir I showed you I may attach it externally near the two 80mm fans on the rear. (Currently 80mm SilenX).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:13 pm 
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oh, ok...i would just get that pump w/ reservoir then.

it would save space and i'm guessing it'd be cheaper than getting a reservoir + pump separately.

i doubt that aluminum reservoir would make a big impact on your temps, and its probably not worth the extra $$$

i would just stick w/ that pump, rad, NF4 block, cpu block, and the MCW60 vga block.

just curious, but what cpu block are you planning to use?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:42 pm 
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In interests of keeping costs down I'm going to stick with my Koolance blocks. I've got the CPU-300 on my processor and the GPU-180 on the NF4 northbridge. They both run on 1/4" tubing unfortunatly, but as I change components over time I'm upgrading that.

I've just ordered the MCW60 and the Laing DDC 12v Pro with the res. I got some tubing and converters so I can run the MCW60 and pump on their native tube size, but downsize to 1/4" for my radiator and other blocks. If my temperatures are unacceptable, I'll be upgrading to the thermochill 120.2 (possibly the 120.3 if i can make some more space). If that's the case, I may also change my cpu and northbridge blocks.

I'm still concerned about cooling the vreg's on my x1900, but I also don't want to add all that extra heat to my watercooling loop. Any advice on a passive way of cooling them?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:36 pm 
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you can drill out 120mm or 140mm fan holes on that side panel, then just put a quiet fan+filter, and it would cool your heatsinks on the x1900. Even a dead silent fan would still blow some air over them.

Or you can get one of those PCI slot fan blowers from Antec (for example), and set that on low.

But I would try passively first before you do this, and just check the heatsink temps. If they are searing hot to the touch, i would get some air movement over them, if its just warm...then you're good to go. If you get artifacting in games and such, then that's another potential warning of high temps.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:36 pm 
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Waiting for my parts to arrive, will post a complete setup and temps when it's all rebuilt!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:52 pm
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sweeto

can't wait to see your rig! :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 191
laguz1 wrote:
Reservoirs also allow more liquid to circulate, and therefore, dropping temps slightly over longer periods of time.

Sorry but no.
The coolant is just a transport mechanism, moving heat from blocks to radiators. Having more coolant (which you will if you have a reservoir) means the system will take a bit longer to reach equilibrium at startup, but after that, it's the same.
BTW, I use reservoirs on all my w/c systems - but that's because I'm using soft silicone tubing (limits transmission of pump vibration) and this tubing allows water to evaporate through it very slowly - so I need a bit of extra coolant. As a side benefit, reservoirs are really nice at set-up time as the water bubbles come right out if the coolant is given a chance to slow down, which it does when flowing through a reservoir.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:16 am
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Well, after lots of problems, my system is finally upgraded. Wrong parts were deliverd from companies, a couple of DoA's, and spilling fluid all over my motherboard meant I had to let it dry out for a few days, haha.

Will post the photos when I tidy up the cabling, as right now it's a disgrace. But I can honestly say, the upgrade worked better than I could have hoped.

I added the MCW60 to my gpu, and the Apogee GT to my cpu. Changed the default koolance pumps to a Laing DDC-1 Pro, and stuck it on a piece of Petra's weird gel stuff, instantly stopped all vibration noise. The pump isn't silent, but I don't think there's anything quieter out there.

Cpu averages at 40, and under load gets up to about 45, the gpu averages around 45, and under load goes up to 55. Not bad considering i've also got the northbridge in that loop :D.


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