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 Post subject: Water cooling in a Wave Master case?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:45 pm 
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Location: Sweden
Hi all! Thanks for a superb site and forum. I've been here lurking for a couple of weeks now, and this is my first own thread. :D

Read miker's thread about water cooling a Sonata case, and it got me thinking of the same treatment for my Cooler Master Wave Master case. Is there anyone out there who has tried (and succeded in) installing wc in a Wave Master case?

Would be delighted if there is... the thing is that I'm absolutely new to wc and need to learn before trying it myself. Pics of a Wave Master case with wc installed is invaluable! :)

I'm writing a list of things to buy (and try) and I will present it here in a day or two.

For now I'm happy to recieve thoughts and tips on the whole wc thing in a medium sized case. The biggest problem as I see it is that there isn't place for a 120mm fan (and radiator) unless I cut the case open somewhere... but I suppose I'll figure that one out with help from you guys. :D

Well, thanks for now. I'm back to writing down my shopping list. Quiet and cool greetings from Sweden!

/ E

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Sapphire Radeon 9500 PRO with Zalman ZM-80C-HP <> Antec TruePower 330W <> IBM 46GB + SG S-ATA 120GB <> CM Wave Master <> WinXP PRO


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:14 pm 
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Location: North Billerica, MA, USA
Figure on cutting open the case... It is a rare case that allows installation of a WC setup without doing some fairly heavy duty case mods.

I don't know your case, but speaking in general, the most common places I've seen internal mount rads located are:

1. Lower front, pulling air in through the rad and blowing it into the case.

2. Upper rear (just under PSU) with exhaust fan blowing out through it.

3. Bottom (floor) of the case, which is mounted on wheels or tall legs, airflow going in either direction (I've seen both)

4. Top of case, with fan blowing out through it. (this can be noisy)

The most common setups are probably #'s 1 or 2. It all depends on how your case is layed out, what size rad you want to run (bigger is better) and how much you want to (or can) modify

Gooserider

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Building Dual Athlon MP system, Tyan mobo, U160 drives, Server Cube case, Linux ONLY, lots of other goodies. Will water cool, attempting to make as silent as possible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:16 pm
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Not to shill another forum, but there is lots of good WC information @ overclockers.com - they have specfic WC forum.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:08 am 
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Location: Sweden
Gooserider:\>> Thanks for the info! The Wave Master case is a medium sized case, so there isn't a lot of space to use for the water cooling equipment. Here's a link to the Cooler Master webpage, and the Wave Master case > http://www.coolermaster.com/index.php?L ... e%20Master

I think I'll try to fit the radiator in the lower front of the case. Two 80mm fans are mounted there right now, but with a little modifying I think I can squeeze a rad + 120mm Papst in there. I will have to modify the case big time, but I think it'll work. :)

The rest of the wc stuff shouldn't be too hard to mount somewhere else in the case. I think...

Here's a little list of things I'm planning to buy:

Water block - Swiftech MCW462-UH
Radiator - Black ICE Pro w. Papst 120mm
Water pump - Eheim 1046
Water reservoir - AC Aquainject Plexi for Eheim 1046

and of course tubing and Water Wetter and so on... :)

Any comments and thoughts on the hardware is welcome! I'm (as I said) kind of new to quiet cooling...

Bailey:\>> I posted here at SPCR because I want to make my PC as silent as I can. I've read a lot of articles here, and also in the forums, and I found out that there's a lot of really competent people here, so... I just thought that someone could come up with good advice when it comes to water cooling your system to make it as silent as possible. ;)[/url]

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Abit NF7-S 2.0 <> Barton 2500+ @ 1.9GHz (190*10) <> Thermaltake Volcano 12 Extreme <> 2*256MB TwinMOS PC3200 Dual-DDR
Sapphire Radeon 9500 PRO with Zalman ZM-80C-HP <> Antec TruePower 330W <> IBM 46GB + SG S-ATA 120GB <> CM Wave Master <> WinXP PRO


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:16 pm
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Quote:
I found out that there's a lot of really competent people here, so... I just thought that someone could come up with good advice when it comes to water cooling your system to make it as silent as possible.

Oops, I certainly didn't mean to infer that there weren't compotent folks here :oops: (I've sure learned a lot in a short time here, i.e. I'd never heard of SeaSonic before)

I took a quick look @ the case & the only issue I could see was is the front (lower) rack removable? It looks as though atleast some of it might have to go to make room for the radiator.

A good small pump is the Maxi-jet 1000 sold by becooling (www.aquastealth.com). It's probably the smallest pump around, though the Swiftech M600 is also small. If you go to VirtualHideout they have a cool aritcle on making an external resevoir from PVC (http://www.virtual-hideout.net/guides/p ... ndex.shtml). This will save space inside the box.

For quiet WC you may want to think about a push/pull fan arrangement, a single 120 doesn't pull enough air @ lower voltages to be truly effective (depends on the system in question). I've read about lot of success using 2x120's @ 7v = very quiet.

Myself, I'm about to install the WC setup & I'm currently working on the duct. I figure if I can surround the duct w/ noise absorbing material I can cut down on the sound quite a bit. Another though would be to mount the fan in the floor of the case & put the rad in front. Ducted this would eliminate the hot air from the radiator being vented into the case = fewer fans inside to keep the system cool.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:42 pm 
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Location: North Billerica, MA, USA
Thanks for the case pointer, although I didn't see any real good interior shots, it gives me a better idea of what you're talking about.
Quote:
think I'll try to fit the radiator in the lower front of the case. Two 80mm fans are mounted there right now, but with a little modifying I think I can squeeze a rad + 120mm Papst in there. I will have to modify the case big time, but I think it'll work.

Well, I'd hate to see you mess up that pretty exterior, but if you can get the airflow without restriction, it might work. How much space do you have between the inside front sheet metal and the leading edge of the mobo? IMHO a good installation would require at least 4-5" (100-125mm) plus the thickness of the rad (1" (25mm) minimum for rad / fan shroud, 1.5" (38mm) for fan and 1-2" (25-50mm) clear space for fan discharge.) more would be better as the shroud between the rad and the fan would benefit from being wider.

I'm aware of the push-pull fan concept, but don't think it's a practical approach because it's so wide if done properly - close to 8-10" (200-250mm) by the time you include air in and out space requirements. I see lots of push pull setups with the fans fastened to the rad surface, but this is a noisy and inefficient approach. I would rather see one fan with a good duct than two fastened to the rad. Per some of BillA's articles, if one uses a 38mm fan, sucking through the rad, the results are about the same.

Quote:
Here's a little list of things I'm planning to buy:
Water block - Swiftech MCW462-UH
Radiator - Black ICE Pro w. Papst 120mm
Water pump - Eheim 1046
Water reservoir - AC Aquainject Plexi for Eheim 1046

Well, if you read my posts, you know that I don't like Swiftech because they mix Al and Cu in their block, and that I prefer automotive heater cores to 'computer rads' however that's not a bad setup if you plan to use and maintain your anti-corrosives. (I would get an all Cu block, or possibly a Cu / plexi one, and see if there was a better sized heater core available, but that's me...)

As to other sites, I haven't been that impressed with overclockers for the most part, but I spend about as much time over at ProCooling as I do here. IMHO, they are the experts on cooling the same way SPCR are the expert on low noise. ProCooling has a very heavy emphasis on water cooling, including block design and construction. They also think a fair bit about noise, not as much as SPCR, but they do seem to grasp the idea that computers don't need to be loud to be effective. (BTW Mike, when I'm over there I mention SPCR frequently)

Gooserider

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Building Dual Athlon MP system, Tyan mobo, U160 drives, Server Cube case, Linux ONLY, lots of other goodies. Will water cool, attempting to make as silent as possible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:16 pm
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Quote:
they mix Al and Cu in their block

I'm not sure if I'd worry about that issue. Most WC'ers use some form of anti-corrsoive which should eliminate the problem. I mean, most cars have multi-metal cooling (i.e. Al water pumps & copper heater cores).

I use Zerex "water pump lubricant" - it' purely an anti-corrosive/ It goes for about $2.50/14/5oz @ the auto parts store.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:08 pm
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Location: Sweden
Bailey and Gooserider:\>>

Thanks for all the thoughts and comments! Yesterday i disassembled all of the case (as much as I could without ripping bolts up) and I found out that wc'ing my case will be a tough one without some serious modifying. I think I'll have to cut away all of the 3,5" mounting places to be able to fit a radiator + fan + pump and reservoir there... (e.g. the front lower rack isn't removable :( ).

BUT... there are two 80mm fans in the front that are supposed to cool hard drives mounted in the lower front of the case. Maybe there is a radiator I can mount just in front of them? (Hopefully without sawing and cutting the case). Will look into this asap. Maybe some sort of rectangular shaped radiator is out there, waiting just for me... :)

Currently I am vacuum cleaning the internet for articles on modifying a Wave Master case for water cooling. Links (if there are any) are appreciated! ;)

Will post more in this thread when and if there is any progress in this project. Thanks for all help for now! :D

_________________
Abit NF7-S 2.0 <> Barton 2500+ @ 1.9GHz (190*10) <> Thermaltake Volcano 12 Extreme <> 2*256MB TwinMOS PC3200 Dual-DDR
Sapphire Radeon 9500 PRO with Zalman ZM-80C-HP <> Antec TruePower 330W <> IBM 46GB + SG S-ATA 120GB <> CM Wave Master <> WinXP PRO


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:16 pm
Posts: 41
Black Ice makes two rads for 80mm fans. One is a single & the other is a double. Depending on space you may be able to use either one (the double would be better obviously).

You can see them here - http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Radiators/hwlabs.asp

You might also consider mounting the radiator in the rear & reversing the airflow (rear = in & front = out).

Also, here's a link to a CoolerMaster WC (looks pretty), I'm not sure of the model but it might give you some ideas -

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php? ... enumber=14


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:45 pm
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Location: North Billerica, MA, USA
If you look on the ProCooling message board, you will find a sticky with a pointer to Airspirit's Heater Core Database, where he lists all the FedCo HC #'s in a database that allows searching by size. It isn't perfect, as it doesn't include the tanks in the dimensions, but it may allow you to find just the right HC to fit in your available space.

Gooserider

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Building Dual Athlon MP system, Tyan mobo, U160 drives, Server Cube case, Linux ONLY, lots of other goodies. Will water cool, attempting to make as silent as possible.


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