Hi everybody, first mail here so go easy on me. I'm basically clueless.
I work from home with 3D visualization and recently invested in the below system:
Case: Cooler Master RC-810-SSN
Case fan: Antec 75012 All Clear 120mm
PSU: Tagan Topower 900kW
Mobo: Supermicro H8QC8 Quad Opteron
CPU: 4 x AMD 2.0GHz 870 Dual Core Opteron
CPU fans: 4 x Thermaltake TR2TT A4014 TR2 M1
Discs: Western Digital 36GB 10000RPM SATA
Western Digital 74GB 10000RPM SATA
Western Digital 400GB 7200RPM SATA
Memory: 4 x Corsair CM72SD1024RLP-3200 1GB
Graphics: XFX Geforce 7900 GTX Extreme
I chose a reputable (so I thought, should've checked resellerratings.com) system integrator to put it all together and to come with recommendations and advice in order to make it as quiet as possible. Needless to say the system sounds like a small airplane and my wife is going crazy. I'm open to any suggestions, the CPU's are stock and if I do any OC in the future it will be very moderate.
I've seen companies such as CoolIt etc claim they can get down to 26db, but as far as I can tell they're not offering anything for a quad system like this. Can it be done? I'm open to all suggestions and if anyone can solve it I guess it must be the peeps here.
I need help to chill a beast
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MikeC
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You have many loud noise sources:
1. CPU fans: 4 x Thermaltake TR2TT A4014 TR2 M1 -- they have to be just terrible, looking at pics.
2. Graphics: XFX Geforce 7900 GTX Extreme -- I'd guess this can't be good.
3. 4 hard drives hard mounted in an aluminum chassis -- the whole chassis must ruble like a train.
4. Tagan Topower 900kW -- don't know that it's quiet but suspect it's not with the load you have.
5. Antec 75012 All Clear 120mm -- I'll bet this is switchable for speed and it's on high.
The Stacker case is probably never going to be quiet unless you softmount every source of noise. Even then, it won't be great. Maybe you can use panel damping to deaden at least some of the panels so they don't resonate as badly.
Others will have more advice.
1. CPU fans: 4 x Thermaltake TR2TT A4014 TR2 M1 -- they have to be just terrible, looking at pics.
2. Graphics: XFX Geforce 7900 GTX Extreme -- I'd guess this can't be good.
3. 4 hard drives hard mounted in an aluminum chassis -- the whole chassis must ruble like a train.
4. Tagan Topower 900kW -- don't know that it's quiet but suspect it's not with the load you have.
5. Antec 75012 All Clear 120mm -- I'll bet this is switchable for speed and it's on high.
The Stacker case is probably never going to be quiet unless you softmount every source of noise. Even then, it won't be great. Maybe you can use panel damping to deaden at least some of the panels so they don't resonate as badly.
Others will have more advice.
Wow, that's an impressive system... apart from the noise, I bet it packs quite a punch.
I have a few quick questions, which might help you get the answers you need. Most importantly, how would you like to go about quieting your setup? Do you intend to buy and install new parts, get some shop to do it for you, or return the system and start with a clean slate (I guess not, but it doesn't hurt to ask). Second, do you have any experience with assembling your own 'puter? Not that it's hard to do, but that (more or less) defines the type of suggestions you'll need. Finally, if you're going to change this setup, what kind of budget are you thinking of? An indication would suffice, something along the lines of "I cancelled my wedding to afford this beast, I'm not spending a single $/€" to "quiet this monster and never mind the cost"...
FWIW, I think this setup can probably be made pretty quiet, but "silent" is probably out of the question... it all depends on how you'd like to go about it, though. Oh, and I think a 6th point should be added to MikeC's list, not necessarily in 6th place:
6. 2 small high-speed fans on the motherboard
I have a few quick questions, which might help you get the answers you need. Most importantly, how would you like to go about quieting your setup? Do you intend to buy and install new parts, get some shop to do it for you, or return the system and start with a clean slate (I guess not, but it doesn't hurt to ask). Second, do you have any experience with assembling your own 'puter? Not that it's hard to do, but that (more or less) defines the type of suggestions you'll need. Finally, if you're going to change this setup, what kind of budget are you thinking of? An indication would suffice, something along the lines of "I cancelled my wedding to afford this beast, I'm not spending a single $/€" to "quiet this monster and never mind the cost"...
FWIW, I think this setup can probably be made pretty quiet, but "silent" is probably out of the question... it all depends on how you'd like to go about it, though. Oh, and I think a 6th point should be added to MikeC's list, not necessarily in 6th place:
6. 2 small high-speed fans on the motherboard
Just looking at some of the noisier parts (points 1 and 6 from the last two posters), it seems obvious you can get it quieter, but I'm not sure how much quieter since you have many high end, hot parts.
What you do really depends on how much you want to spend and how you're going to approach it (do it yourself or get a integrator to do it). But just to get started, I'll throw out some ideas on tackling the issues mentioned by MikeC and teejay (keeping the same numbering)
6) Replace the fans and small heatsinks on the chipsets. The problem is that taller heatsinks will most likely interfere with the graphics card and other cards. The Thermalright HR-05 SLI could work in this situation. Hopefully, Supermicro kept standard mounting holes on those chipsets. ~$25 each x 2 chipset fans = $50
1) Replace CPU heatsinks/fans with Scythe Ninjas with Scythe or Nexus fans. Since you'll need four of them . . . $50 each x 4 Opterons = $200
2) Either replace the graphics card cooler with a Zalman VF900 (~$40-45) or replace the graphics card. There's an XFX 7950GT that is completely passive (no fan). It'll be much quieter than what you've got now, but it will cost you $350-400.
5) Replace the Antec case fan with a Nexus 120mm Real Silent fan or Papst 120mm low-speed fan.
What you do really depends on how much you want to spend and how you're going to approach it (do it yourself or get a integrator to do it). But just to get started, I'll throw out some ideas on tackling the issues mentioned by MikeC and teejay (keeping the same numbering)
6) Replace the fans and small heatsinks on the chipsets. The problem is that taller heatsinks will most likely interfere with the graphics card and other cards. The Thermalright HR-05 SLI could work in this situation. Hopefully, Supermicro kept standard mounting holes on those chipsets. ~$25 each x 2 chipset fans = $50
1) Replace CPU heatsinks/fans with Scythe Ninjas with Scythe or Nexus fans. Since you'll need four of them . . . $50 each x 4 Opterons = $200
2) Either replace the graphics card cooler with a Zalman VF900 (~$40-45) or replace the graphics card. There's an XFX 7950GT that is completely passive (no fan). It'll be much quieter than what you've got now, but it will cost you $350-400.
5) Replace the Antec case fan with a Nexus 120mm Real Silent fan or Papst 120mm low-speed fan.
Re: I need help to chill a beast
kiloWatts?Nicoman wrote:Tagan Topower 900kW
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I KNOW you meant 900W or 0.9kW, right?
Thanks for all the replies, impressive knowledge here.
When I was looking for the system I actually only found one system integrator at all that offered a system like this with graphics, everybody else was in the server business, and they turned out to be utterly useless. With the problems there were in the beginning I might as well have done it myself, and now I will have to. I should be ok with some hand holding.
Since my workspace is in the proximity of our bedroom I think my wife is leaning at 'quiet this monster and never mind the cost', but in reality I'd like to get away with less than $500 perhaps $600.
I assumed I needed water cooling here but Ninja fans sounds promising.
The PSU can not be replaced as there is nothing else out there that gives the needed cream, and I'd hate to see the graphics board go but you guys are the experts.
LOL. Yes, I mean 900W, the system was originally speced with a PC&C 1kW PSU but that one turned out to be unstable. I was a bit quick when changed it in the list.
When I was looking for the system I actually only found one system integrator at all that offered a system like this with graphics, everybody else was in the server business, and they turned out to be utterly useless. With the problems there were in the beginning I might as well have done it myself, and now I will have to. I should be ok with some hand holding.
Since my workspace is in the proximity of our bedroom I think my wife is leaning at 'quiet this monster and never mind the cost', but in reality I'd like to get away with less than $500 perhaps $600.
I assumed I needed water cooling here but Ninja fans sounds promising.
The PSU can not be replaced as there is nothing else out there that gives the needed cream, and I'd hate to see the graphics board go but you guys are the experts.LOL. Yes, I mean 900W, the system was originally speced with a PC&C 1kW PSU but that one turned out to be unstable. I was a bit quick when changed it in the list.
Watercooling is also a possibility, there is a watercooling forum, it may help to post in there with your specs and see what they can come up with for that budget. The main priority IMHO is to get rid of the current HSF's. Not necessarily replace with Ninja's, maybe something a bit cheaper but still with good performance, Scythe Mine?I assumed I needed water cooling
You won't be able to remove all the noise sources, so you might want to insulate them. Cover the insides of the case with sound dampening material, soft mount everything, and put the whole computer behind and after lots of soft material. Just make sure there is room for air to go in and out. Put the machine on top of something soft too.
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SideshowBOFH
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- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:44 pm
- Location: Canberra, Australia
I think one thing you're going to have to look closely at is more intelligent airflow - aka ducting. 4 socket monsters are always going to be noisy, that's why machines with that many CPUs are more often found in 4RU cases locked away in server rooms
Of course, to make any improvement, you need to know exactly what you've got, and what you want to achieve. The two things I'd suggest measuring are the temperatures of the CPUs and video card, and the amount of noise the system is generating.
The next step is to take a systematic approach to figure out what is generating the most noise in your system and quieten that down first - MikeC's list is probably going to be spot on. Simply stop fans temporarily, or disconnect hard drive power leads. Once you've found the worst offender, do a bit of research on how to change it.
As the CPUs are probably going to be your #1 source of noise, I'll throw my 2c into the ring for what you might be able to do with them. The one thing that I've seen with 4 and 8 socket machines is that they use their available airflow well, drawing in cool air from the front of the machine and ducting it over the CPUs to be exhausted out the back. I'd suggest putting in a kind of divider to start with, dividing the top half of the motherboard where the CPUs are from the bottom half where the expansion cards are, and making sure that the rear 120mm fans are moving enough air through. Do you have any fans installed in the front of the case? If not, I'd suggest something like a few Scythe Kama-Bays to increase the airflow across the CPUs to keep the temperature down - a bit counter-intuitive adding fans, but once that is done, you can probably reduce the CPU fan speeds.
Systems like the Sun Fire x4600 (an 8-socket Opteron monster!) and the HP DL585 use this to good effect, with there being no fans directly attached to the CPU heatsinks (not that there's room), but fans just in front and just behind of the CPUs blowing through tight ducts.
Of course, to make any improvement, you need to know exactly what you've got, and what you want to achieve. The two things I'd suggest measuring are the temperatures of the CPUs and video card, and the amount of noise the system is generating.
The next step is to take a systematic approach to figure out what is generating the most noise in your system and quieten that down first - MikeC's list is probably going to be spot on. Simply stop fans temporarily, or disconnect hard drive power leads. Once you've found the worst offender, do a bit of research on how to change it.
As the CPUs are probably going to be your #1 source of noise, I'll throw my 2c into the ring for what you might be able to do with them. The one thing that I've seen with 4 and 8 socket machines is that they use their available airflow well, drawing in cool air from the front of the machine and ducting it over the CPUs to be exhausted out the back. I'd suggest putting in a kind of divider to start with, dividing the top half of the motherboard where the CPUs are from the bottom half where the expansion cards are, and making sure that the rear 120mm fans are moving enough air through. Do you have any fans installed in the front of the case? If not, I'd suggest something like a few Scythe Kama-Bays to increase the airflow across the CPUs to keep the temperature down - a bit counter-intuitive adding fans, but once that is done, you can probably reduce the CPU fan speeds.
Systems like the Sun Fire x4600 (an 8-socket Opteron monster!) and the HP DL585 use this to good effect, with there being no fans directly attached to the CPU heatsinks (not that there's room), but fans just in front and just behind of the CPUs blowing through tight ducts.
Just a quick reply (I'll try to get back to this thread later): I don't think Ninja's will fit due to the proximity of the sockets to one another, but I might be wrong... maybe you could take a few measurements or possibly provide us with a photograph of your setup?
Also, do you have some temperature information? I don't know if SpeedFan knows how to read that particular chipset, but any info you can gather on chipset/GPU/CPU temperature might help us determine alternate cooling strategies... I agree with SideshowBOFH that ducting case airflow might well be the key here, provided that we can find CPU heatsinks that fit your motherboard.
Oh, while you're at it, you might want to check if any of the nine (!) fan headers on that board support software fan speed control.
Also, do you have some temperature information? I don't know if SpeedFan knows how to read that particular chipset, but any info you can gather on chipset/GPU/CPU temperature might help us determine alternate cooling strategies... I agree with SideshowBOFH that ducting case airflow might well be the key here, provided that we can find CPU heatsinks that fit your motherboard.
Oh, while you're at it, you might want to check if any of the nine (!) fan headers on that board support software fan speed control.
teejay wrote:I don't think Ninja's will fit due to the proximity of the sockets to one another, but I might be wrong... maybe you could take a few measurements or possibly provide us with a photograph of your setup?
Hmm, you're right, they probably won't fit, especially with the bottom two in the above picture (towards the front of the case). I think two thin tower heatsinks could be mounted there with one fan in between the two heatsinks (mounted on either the bottom of the upper heatsink or top of the lower heatsink. The thinnest tower heatsink I know of is the Katana, but I don't think it is compatible with Opteron sockets. The Thermalright HR-01 would work, but it's bigger and again, might not fit
. For the other two sockets, Scythe Ninjas or Mines look like they fit.-
MikeC
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K8 HS mounting is the same for 754, 949 and 940 sockets. Same 2 holes. I think you are right about the Katana -- two should fit in the center CPU sockets -- though the fan on one might have to saty off -- well worth a try. The airflow direction will be upwards toward the PSU, but in this machine, that's not really anything to worry about. Alternatively, you could probably rig up one 92mm fan to blow on the sides of both of these HS so that the air flows correctly towards the back panel.stromgald wrote:The thinnest tower heatsink I know of is the Katana, but I don't think it is compatible with Opteron sockets.
Ok, based on your feedback I have done some more research and also taken a picture of the case. Picture is tilted, the PSU is in the bottom. It turns out there are 12 fans in total; 2 in the PSU, 4 on the CPUs, 1 on the video card, 2 on the motherboard and 3 on the chassi. According to a software that came with the mobo (Super Doctor III) the temperatures for the system is 37C and for the CPUs 41C, 38C, 40C and 45C. (In farenheit 98F and CPUs 105F, 100F, 104F and 114F). It lists five fans running 4115rpm, 2678rpm, 2721rpm, 2909rpm (for CPU1 to 4) and the fifth one at 1102rpm (system?).
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I've disconnected fans etc for a short moment and based on this I've made the following, although subjective as it's hard to really compare, ranking of what I've found to be the noisiest. Bear in mind that I didn't dare have it running like this for more than a couple of seconds so some may be purely spinup related.
1) Unfortunately the graphicsboard seems to be the worst culprit, and it really spins up.
2) Probably the CPU fans
3) The PSU also spins up so it is hard to say, I got the feeling it came down after a couple of seconds though
4) The 2 motherboard fans has kind of an agressive high pitch sound
(small white ones on the nforce 2200? you can only see one due to the graphics board)
All in all though, after fiddling with it for a while and trying to separate the different sound generators, I would have to say that there isn't any specific fan that you can separate from the others with the possible exception of the graphics board. They seem to accumulate with no one really standing out.
I've seen that Koolance offer liquid cooling for just about anything from memory to graphics board, but is that primarily to cool OC'ed systems or is there a benefit in quietness as well?
Are all fans 5V? I'd like to separate them out and try them one by one without having to worry about frying my mobo and CPU's.
[/URL]I've disconnected fans etc for a short moment and based on this I've made the following, although subjective as it's hard to really compare, ranking of what I've found to be the noisiest. Bear in mind that I didn't dare have it running like this for more than a couple of seconds so some may be purely spinup related.
1) Unfortunately the graphicsboard seems to be the worst culprit, and it really spins up.
2) Probably the CPU fans
3) The PSU also spins up so it is hard to say, I got the feeling it came down after a couple of seconds though
4) The 2 motherboard fans has kind of an agressive high pitch sound
(small white ones on the nforce 2200? you can only see one due to the graphics board)
All in all though, after fiddling with it for a while and trying to separate the different sound generators, I would have to say that there isn't any specific fan that you can separate from the others with the possible exception of the graphics board. They seem to accumulate with no one really standing out.
I've seen that Koolance offer liquid cooling for just about anything from memory to graphics board, but is that primarily to cool OC'ed systems or is there a benefit in quietness as well?
Are all fans 5V? I'd like to separate them out and try them one by one without having to worry about frying my mobo and CPU's.
No wonder it sound like an aircraft, you've got enough fans to make this baby fly!It turns out there are 12 fans in total...It lists five fans running 4115rpm (
As a comparison, the typical SPCR PC will have all fans spinning at less than 1000rpm at all times.If you're going to quiet this without watercooling, you need better (tower) heatsinks and quieter fans. I was thinking you could create two ducts, each one covering 2 CPU's, each one ducted to its own exhaust fan. That is just a preliminary idea, I'm sure other people will come up with better solutions.
Watercooling could also work, as there are lots of heat sources very close together, which generally is not good when air-cooling. Again, WC forum is place to ask about that.
You could turn down the fans if the BIOS supports it. Other programs such as speedfan might not be compatible with your motherboard (check speedfan's website to make sure). I think the top fan is probably quite noisy, and really unnecessary if you have a decent front intake. I'd take off the small fan on the top panel of the case and close up that opening. For the intake, take off some of the lower front drive bays if that hasn't already been done. You should be able to fit a slow turning low-noise 120mm fan up front.Nicoman wrote:Perhaps I can turn down the speed of the fans someway? I assume they are variable and controlled by the bios or something? But the temperature seems ok so I guess something in the system keeps them there.
SpeedFan offers software-based fan control, zalman fanmate is hardware-based. Also your motherboard might offer fan control in BIOS, have a look, probably under temperature monitoring or something.Perhaps I can turn down the speed of the fans someway? I assume they are variable and controlled by the bios or something?
Ok, I have copied my info into the water cooling thread and continued under:
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=34960
It is perhaps better that I try to continue the thread in the above place so I'm not creating parallell threads with the same subject. There was some interesting feedback on water cooling there although the jury stills seems to be out.
BTW, the bays in the front has perforated covers so they should be ok.
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=34960
It is perhaps better that I try to continue the thread in the above place so I'm not creating parallell threads with the same subject. There was some interesting feedback on water cooling there although the jury stills seems to be out.
BTW, the bays in the front has perforated covers so they should be ok.