I'm planning a monster build. It will be my primary workstation, HTPC, and pro-audio multi-track recording studio. The limiting factors are that it has to be full ATX, and it needs to hold 6 HDDs (in practice as well as on paper). Like I said, it's a monster.
The enclosure industry shouldn't have a problem making this happen. After all, mid-towers have been fitting 6 HDDs for a decade or more, with decent cooling and acoustics no less. Just turn the damn thing on its side and flip the 5.25" bays around. Especially since hardly anybody needs more than two 5.25" bays anymore, this should be dead simple.
However, it seems like the enclosure designers are competing to see who can screw this up the worst. Just look at the Zalman HD135 review here at SPCR. That airflow design is so ill-conceived, it's got to be malicious intent. For a $300 case no less!
Fortunately, the new-ish Silverstone GD01 cases seem like a step in the right direction. They basically do the obvious: take a mid-tower, turn it on its side, and flip the 5.25" bays around, just like I just said. They even leave the HDDs in their original orientation, making them vertical in a desktop case. And they're all on the left side of the case, close to where the SATA connectors are on most motherboards. The only big change is putting the PSU at the bottom of the motherboard instead of at the top, but they give it its own airflow circuit, so I think this is a good call.
There are two flaws that I can see. First, they use two 80mm fans above the I/O plate. The only other fan mounts are in front of the HDDs, but they force you to mount the HDDs futher back in the cage, causing them to overhang the SATA connectors on most motherboards. Because the PSU is at the bottom of the board, they could have placed two 120mm fans on the right side of the case (i.e. like the Antec Fusion), where they exhaust directly from the CPU area. This would probably generate enough static pressure to pull through the front vents by the HDDs without using intake fans. It would also make the case quieter, since 120's are obviously lower RPM.
The other flaw is the cross brace over the top of the case. I don't see why they need this, and you need to remove it to remove the HDD cage. The Zalman HD series are aluminum cases, and they don't require any cross bracing at all. This Silverstone is an SECC case, so it should be significantly stiffer. Maybe you wouldn't be able to put an HDTV on top, but you're dumb if you do that anyway.
Another drawback unrelated to its design is that I can't find the model without the VFD anywhere, even though Silverstone's website says it should exist. I don't want the VFD. It looks funny (my subjective opinion), plus the inevitably crappy software that controls it is Windows-only. This will be a Linux box.
I can't find any comprehensive reviews of this case on the web. There's one at virtual-hideout.net, but it's not that great. Definitely not SPCR quality. Does anybody here have this case? Any "gotchas" I should know about? Did you find the model without the VFD?
Thanks!
HPTC case: big, powerful, 6 HDDs... Silverstone-GD01?
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Wow, that's one ugly case IMHO. I have explored the option of getting a nice mid-tower and turning it sideways, maybe getting a slot-loading optical drive. But having all of those 5.25" drive bay covers along the front makes it really ugly. I'll settle for two 5.25" bays, since I could forsee potentially wanting a second one for a breakout box of some kind (like a headphone amp maybe). But any more than that on a modern PC is overkill. Enclosure designers should realize that today's enthusiast wants the capacity and performance of multi-disk arrays but seldom needs more than two 5.25" bays.Catul wrote:Check out the Cooler Master Stacker - I used the RC810 to install 5 HD's, it has 120mm fans, and is a really good case. Lots of reviews around on this one.
The Lian-Li PC-V1200plus is a very nice looking case - I use that for my main system. Has plenty of HD space, pretty cool (though use quiet fans since the case doesn't dampen noise very well).
Cost, performance, and simplicity are the reasons I've decided not to go the network storage route. Also, I'd probably end up putting the storage server in the same room as the main HPTC, so a single machine would certainly end up being quieter.andyb wrote:Have you considered getting 2 PC's, and a Gigabit Switch.
You can do everything you want on the quiet/silent PC in front of you, and have the other as a server.
It would win hands down on the noise front, and be very easy to do, however it would cost a fair amount more cash.
Also, being at work right now reminds me that I sit in an office all day with four IBM POWER5 servers (not the refrigerator-sized ones, the "deskside" models) that basically sound like I'm on a 737 airliner. My home is dead silent by comparison, and I don't think a couple well-designed fans will impact this all that much. I guess I'm more concerned with cooling all those hard disks packed together like that.
I think the Silverstone is pretty close to ideal for me. I might be able to mod the right side to accommodate the 120mm fans, unless the little vent there gets in the way. With 120s in this location this Silverstone would be pretty much unbeatable for a full-sized HTPC.
Is there any way to suggest an item for SPCR to review? I'd love to see a review of this case to confirm my initial analysis (without ever seeing the case in person). Plus, I think a lot of SPCR readers might be interested in this case for bigger builds.
Ooh, the Lian Li cases are interesting these days. They really seem to like this new inverted motherboard style with the airducts and everything. You must need REALLY long SATA cables to reach from the top of the case down to the HDDs. I guess the PSU airduct pulls from the HDD area?Catul wrote:The Lian-Li PC-V1200plus is a very nice looking case - I use that for my main system. Has plenty of HD space, pretty cool (though use quiet fans since the case doesn't dampen noise very well).
Again everybody puts way too many 5.25" bays in these mid-towers. Who needs them? You can put one of those 3-bay to 4 HDD adapters in there, but it seems like if there is a dead spot in the airflow in this case, it's right there by the 5.25" bays.
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bonestonne
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oh wow...i run an old server as a recording machine...even that is overkill...6HDDs? whats that for? just get externals if you need that many, having that many internals could be a problem. the most you could honestly need on the inside is two pairs in RAID...6 internal HDDs is beyond overkill...
if it needs to be quiet, all you need to do is get a small case, external drives, and a couple quiet fans. theres no need to go overkill with a huge case.
also, if its running linux, what program are you planning on using to record audio? i know of two, and neither are exactly easy to work with...in part i'm looking for one thats really good myself.
i think that your idea of a computer is just too much...with 6 HDDs, the CPU, optical drives, and PCI cards, plus a graphics card [most people have one] how are you going to cool it? honestly.
if it needs to be quiet, all you need to do is get a small case, external drives, and a couple quiet fans. theres no need to go overkill with a huge case.
also, if its running linux, what program are you planning on using to record audio? i know of two, and neither are exactly easy to work with...in part i'm looking for one thats really good myself.
i think that your idea of a computer is just too much...with 6 HDDs, the CPU, optical drives, and PCI cards, plus a graphics card [most people have one] how are you going to cool it? honestly.
My plan for the disks is as follows: 2x 150GB WD Raptors in RAID-1 for the system. 4x 500GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 in RAID-5 for the data volume. Paging space striped across one of the Raptors and two of the Barracudas, then mirrored on the remainder. Linux MD driver for software RAID using the EVMS storage management framework. I want this capacity primarily for storing recorded TV programs via MythTV. The performance should be pretty nice as well.
I could go with external drives, but it would end up being much more expensive. In order to address each physical disk as its own block device, you need to either chain a bunch of FireWire enclosures or go the SAS route. Both are prohibitively expensive. I figure its cheaper and easier to get a case and cooling system that can properly handle those drives. I'm not that concerned with noise, but it is a consideration.
I use Ardour for multi-track recording on Linux. It's very impressive, and getting better every day. The GTK2 rewrite is in the final beta stages. It sits on top of the JACK audio server, which provides incredible signal routing flexibility and very low-latency. I'd say it's a 90% Pro Tools replacement. Support for VST plugins is there but a little shaky at times (LADSPA is great), and support for control surfaces is incomplete but coming along (anything using the Mackie Control Protocol is now supported). It has capabilities that Pro Tools lacks such as arbitrary channel configurations per-track (i.e. I can create a track with 3 input channels and 12 output channels if I like) and other sorts of things that Pro Tools doesn't let you do simply because they don't think it's necessary.
At my job I deal with really big systems that support 64 dual-core CPUs, a TB of RAM, and 144 HDDs in a single chassis. I wouldn't want one in my living room, of course! To me, 1 dual-core CPU, 4GB of RAM, and 6 HDDs is a fairly puny system. I should certainly be able to put it in my living room and not have it sound like a datacenter.
I could go with external drives, but it would end up being much more expensive. In order to address each physical disk as its own block device, you need to either chain a bunch of FireWire enclosures or go the SAS route. Both are prohibitively expensive. I figure its cheaper and easier to get a case and cooling system that can properly handle those drives. I'm not that concerned with noise, but it is a consideration.
I use Ardour for multi-track recording on Linux. It's very impressive, and getting better every day. The GTK2 rewrite is in the final beta stages. It sits on top of the JACK audio server, which provides incredible signal routing flexibility and very low-latency. I'd say it's a 90% Pro Tools replacement. Support for VST plugins is there but a little shaky at times (LADSPA is great), and support for control surfaces is incomplete but coming along (anything using the Mackie Control Protocol is now supported). It has capabilities that Pro Tools lacks such as arbitrary channel configurations per-track (i.e. I can create a track with 3 input channels and 12 output channels if I like) and other sorts of things that Pro Tools doesn't let you do simply because they don't think it's necessary.
At my job I deal with really big systems that support 64 dual-core CPUs, a TB of RAM, and 144 HDDs in a single chassis. I wouldn't want one in my living room, of course! To me, 1 dual-core CPU, 4GB of RAM, and 6 HDDs is a fairly puny system. I should certainly be able to put it in my living room and not have it sound like a datacenter.
You can find all sorts of USB/Firewires/eSATA enclosures for multiple disks at http://www.cooldrives.com. Another thing to consider would be an Infrant ReadyNAS.
Bingo!! I found what I'm looking for. Norco DS-500e. Nice-looking aluminum box with 5 hot-swap SATA-II trays, eSATA interface, and an included PCI-e eSATA adapter with 2 ports (supports two of these enclosures on one card). It has an integrated 180W PSU and a 92mm cooling fan. Firmware supports RAID 0/1/0+1/5, and linear RAID, or it just lets the OS deal with the disks directly. $440 at Newegg. I didn't see it before because it's under the server category instead of the external enclosure section. It's pretty sleek:
http://www.norcotek.com/DS-500e.php
With all of the data disks in this puppy (with one slot to spare for future expansion), and just the two system disks in the main case, I have a lot more options for a cool and relatively quiet case. I was even thinking of going microATX and getting an Antec Fusion, but all of the P965 boards are ATX, and I just need too many PCI-e and PCI slots for this system. Oh, well. I'll update this thread when I get a chance to look into cases again--this time with much easier HDD requirements!
http://www.norcotek.com/DS-500e.php
With all of the data disks in this puppy (with one slot to spare for future expansion), and just the two system disks in the main case, I have a lot more options for a cool and relatively quiet case. I was even thinking of going microATX and getting an Antec Fusion, but all of the P965 boards are ATX, and I just need too many PCI-e and PCI slots for this system. Oh, well. I'll update this thread when I get a chance to look into cases again--this time with much easier HDD requirements!
Interesting case
Have you seen this case:
http://www.coolermaster.com/index.php?L ... edia%20280
It actually is kind of a midi tower that you can flip on it's side. What I think is particulary interesting is that it supports full sized graphics cards and big tower-style CPU-coolers, at least it should be able to considering it's height/width. To my knowledge this will be the first HTPC-case that is higher than 17cm. Anyone got any experience of using it? If you really want to go all in I think you should consider:
http://www.origenae.com/en/htpc_s21t.htm
It supports up to 10 hard drives
http://www.coolermaster.com/index.php?L ... edia%20280
It actually is kind of a midi tower that you can flip on it's side. What I think is particulary interesting is that it supports full sized graphics cards and big tower-style CPU-coolers, at least it should be able to considering it's height/width. To my knowledge this will be the first HTPC-case that is higher than 17cm. Anyone got any experience of using it? If you really want to go all in I think you should consider:
http://www.origenae.com/en/htpc_s21t.htm
It supports up to 10 hard drives
Re: Interesting case
Nifty idea, but I think people either want an HTPC form factor or a tower, not an Optimus Prime (BTW that's what they should have called it). It only fits 5 HDDs. Nice, though.
Very nice! That's pretty much what I designed in my head in terms of optimal interior layout. My mind didn't picture a motorized 12.1" touchscreen, and my wallet didn't either. If they had one of these without the screen I would probably go for it.