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 Post subject: New system time!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:27 am 
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Hi,

I am about to build a new system and am looking for advice. I am shooting for the 3.2 GHz range with 1 GByte of memory. Of course the system has to be quiet. My other system is a 2.4 GHZ with 512 MB, Samsung drive, ThermalRight heat sync cooler, Seasonics 400 PS. It is pretty quiet and I hope to better this time!

First, I need suggestion on a motherboard. The 2.4 GHz system is using a cheaper motherboard and it shows.

The second item is the case. I looks are not that important, but silence is. Also, I will probably get my own power supply, so a case that comes without one means I can save some $$$.

Third is power supply. If nothing else I will go with the Seasonics 400 again. But, I am always looking for something quieter. Fanless?

Fans are still an issue. I have some of 80 mm Panaflows. But, i hear there are better fans.

Anything else?

Thanks,

Jerry


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:44 pm 
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If that is the system you truly looking for, Buy a Dell. its quite, and there is nothing outstanding about the systems spec. On the other hand if you want to build a system other then Intel only….


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:51 pm 
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mkruer wrote:
If that is the system you truly looking for, Buy a Dell. its quite, and there is nothing outstanding about the systems spec. On the other hand if you want to build a system other then Intel only….


I am not wed to Intel. Any suggestions on a AMD based system?

jerry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:55 pm 
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You can try this one.

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=16654

This is the rig I am in the process on making.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:03 am 
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From what I understand, Jerry would NOT be pleased with a Dell.

I do suggest looking into Athlon64 systems, especially the s939 boards. They run well & cool, boards are getting better by the minute, etc.

For fans, look at the Nexus line.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:01 pm 
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mkruer wrote:
You can try this one.

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=16654

This is the rig I am in the process on making.


Nice system. A little too pricey for my needs. I don't really care about 3D graphics performance, and have a hard time paying $200 for a processor. Also, I don't see the need for a 64 bit processor.

jerry


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:52 pm 
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jerryk wrote:
Nice system. A little too pricey for my needs. I don't really care about 3D graphics performance, and have a hard time paying $200 for a processor. Also, I don't see the need for a 64 bit processor.
jerry

thought you said time for a new system. :D

why no A64? there's no price premium on them any more, and using an XP will force you to use an ancient mb. aside from that, the changes also made them better as 32-bit CPUs; considering hardly anyone at home uses more than 4GB RAM the only real difference is 64-bit registers. :P


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:46 pm 
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Straker wrote:
why no A64? there's no price premium on them any more, and using an XP will force you to use an ancient mb. aside from that, the changes also made them better as 32-bit CPUs; considering hardly anyone at home uses more than 4GB RAM the only real difference is 64-bit registers. :P


If I don't have to pay a price premium than the 64 bit would be fine. But since nothing I use will take advantage of the 64 bit processor the price would have to be comperable to a 3.0 GHz P4. BTW, what make them better than a 32-bit processor. Seems to me if you run Windows XP or other 32-bit OSes you are just going to force the chip into 32-bit mode.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:45 am 
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Yes, but they are still an infinately better 32 bit processor than the XP or Pentium for that matter.
There are various benchmarks about on the net showing A64s lined up next to "equivilant" processors, and then the equivilants getting trampled (eg. A64 3000+ vs AXP 3000+ vs Pentium IV 3Ghz).

Bottom line, if you get the lowest S939 CPU, the Athlon 64 3000+, it will be better than an Athlon XP 3200+.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:42 am 
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jerryk wrote:
If I don't have to pay a price premium than the 64 bit would be fine. But since nothing I use will take advantage of the 64 bit processor the price would have to be comperable to a 3.0 GHz P4. BTW, what make them better than a 32-bit processor. Seems to me if you run Windows XP or other 32-bit OSes you are just going to force the chip into 32-bit mode.

It's not just a 64-bit processor. It's also has the memory controller on processor. That means that memory access is a lot faster. If you check on most hardware review sites, they show the A64 whooping the tar out of Athlon XP (and even some Pentium 4, depending on the flavor and the benchmark).

If you really DON'T want a 64-bit processor for whatever reason, then I would suggest examining the Athlon Sempron 3100+. It's a 32-bit version of the A64 and is slightly cheaper than the A64 2800+.

The only reason at this point to stay with the Athlon XP is if you want to save money (which is a good reason). But in terms of upgrade path, the Athlon XP is dead.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:54 am 
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I have used both the P4 HT and A64 in the same application. The on board memory controllers makes a difference, even when the clock speeds aren't equal.

My A64 3000 runs loads single applications (just normal Windows type application such as Office, and Windows itself) much more quickly than the P4 3.2E HT that I have. Now when multi-tasking applications the P4 HT takes the cake.

Since these aren't 64 bit enabled applications I would say the difference comes from the memory controller, since it's the same type of ram and amount.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:27 pm 
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Practical number-crunching example:

I run Folding@Home on two machines. One an AthlonXP @ 1975 MHz, another an Athlon64 @ 2000 MHz. The MHz difference is really small between them but the A64 is on the average %50 to %75 faster. Same OS, same memory.

Plus, I can undervolt the hell out of the Athlon64 so it runs cooler. The price on it was way cheaper than an equivalent P4.

IMO, the only reason to buy a Sempron is if you've already have an investment in a SocketA board and want better performance than the AthlonXP.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:35 pm 
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PPGMD wrote:
I have used both the P4 HT and A64 in the same application. The on board memory controllers makes a difference, even when the clock speeds aren't equal.

My A64 3000 runs loads single applications (just normal Windows type application such as Office, and Windows itself) much more quickly than the P4 3.2E HT that I have. Now when multi-tasking applications the P4 HT takes the cake.

Since these aren't 64 bit enabled applications I would say the difference comes from the memory controller, since it's the same type of ram and amount.


Are you saying the P4 has a better memory controller so it is better at multi-tasking (context switches)? And that the A64 is a faster CPU?

Also, does anyone know of which models of the intel and AMD 64 bit processors are equivalent? I want to ensure that I caomparing similar performance when doing my price shopping!

jerry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:46 am 
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Not as I understand it.

The P4 has hyper-threading so is better at multitasking - "appearing" to be two CPUs has advantages in the way that window's load ballancing algorithm works, giving the P4 the edge when handling two quite busy applications.

The Athlon64 has a far superior memory controller (and architecture in general) and is equal or faster at everything else. In other words, if you are after good gaming performance get an Athlon64 as a game is a single, highly processor and memory intensive application - the area where the Athlon64 wins hands down.

As for comparisons, its hard to say.
The original idea of AMDs performance ratings was that they indicated the equivilant Intel chip (eg Athlon XP 2400+ = P4 2.4Ghz).
However that has slipped with the Athlon64 range - an Athlon 64 3000+ will outperform a P4 3Ghz in just about everything.


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