SLK3000B

Linknoid · Post by **Linknoid** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:05 pm

After doing lots of research here at Silent PC Review and in these forums, I put together what I thought should be a great machine.

Antec SLK3000B case, Asus A8V-E deluxe motherboard, Seasonic S12 PSU, Samsung Spinpoint hard drive. I ordered a Thermalright XP-120 and a Zalman northbridge heatsink at the same time, but they haven't arrived yet. In the meantime, I'm just using the built in northbridge and CPU HSFs.

However, having now put everything together, I've discovered that something about this new machine makes it horribly unusable for me. The problem is, I don't even know what it is. I know what effect it has on me, I just don't what's causing it.

My ears are sensitive to mid to high frequency noise, especially the high pitch whine of hard drives and of northbridge/VGA fans. But I know my reaction to those, it grates on my nerves, it makes me want to just rip them out after a while, but I would never describe their effect as physically painful.

The problem I've discovered with my new computer is that something about it is extremely painful to me. It's not noise, at least not audible noise. I can clearly hear the heatsink fan and the CPU fan, and while a bit on the annoying side, I'm certain they're not the cause. I'm not sure what is. But the pain is like something is drilling into my head (not that I've ever experienced that), basically bringing on major headaches.

I discovered I can leave the room, and the pain goes away, the farther I get, and turning the computer off helps too, but as soon as I get near it again, the pain comes back like before.

The problem is, I don't know what the cause of this is. I do know that I get headaches from loud bass (low frequency sound, not the fish), but I'm definitely not hearing anything like that. Maybe this just happens to be below my lower frequency threshhold of hearing or something. I'm guessing it must either be some moving part resonating the case, or the airflow through the holes in the case "whistling" at a low frequency. I do have the case sitting on carpet at the moment, I'd think that would help a bit with dampening case vibrations.

Is anyone else out there susceptible to anything similar, and found a way to eliminate the problem? If I spend the money on AcoustiPack, will that dampen out all the vibrations? Would a different case be better? I'd much rather put up with a bit of noise than have a completely silent (acoustically) machine that gives me massive headaches.

Please help!

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:04 pm

No offense, but maybe it would be worthwhile to get your ears tested. Find out what exact ranges affect you and then maybe get a friend to help you identify what noises are being made by your new computer.

It may be smarter to approach this by identifying the problem better, rather than blindly applying a random solution.

By the way, are you sure it's noise that's getting to you and not the monitor? I've heard people give similar complaints when working with CRT monitors @ 60Hz refresh.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:08 pm

I thought about this too, a monitor thats either low in dot pitch (more than .25) or has problems with refresh is a major cause of discomfort. Also, some monitors, most actually, cant support higher refresh rates without blurring, quality here is imperative.

Yeah, you should go see an audiologist or ENT doctor about that.

andywww · Post by **andywww** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:48 pm

I can sympathize, just switched cases/installed some nexus cooling fans/decoupled hd drives and wow! this high pitched headache inducing noise coming from the case. Took me a while to figure out that it was my Zalman 7000A AlCu fan + the nifty TAC duct. If I was you I'd take the time to stop every fan one at a time with a finger or zip tie- i had no idea that it was the cpufan until i'd stopped it and the noise was gone.

(interesting side note my temporary solution was to turn up the cpu fan until the high pitched noise was covered by the rest of the fan noise )

Mar. · Post by **Mar.** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:56 pm

This is basically the same effect that loud, high-frequency sound has on me (like one of those ultrasonic plug-in bug repellant devices). Prolly some resonance happening.

High-frequeny sounds, ifpowerful enough, can still cause pain it seems, even if you can't "hear" them.

anthonysimilion · Post by **anthonysimilion** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:27 am

I can hear the high pitched whine of my two Samsung SP1614N's - every few seconds I can hear the intermodulation of the two drives - that's just the icing on the cake.

It does annoy me to no end - but I've heard suspension reduces this a lot. I'm hopefully going to try this soon.

It may be psychological - but I think I'm experiencing some hearing loss in one ear - the one that is on the computer side of the desk.

shades_of_blue · Post by **shades_of_blue** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:28 am

i'd suggest you unplug all case fans and see if your headache goes away, if that fails disconnect any hdds and turn on the system again. just listen to the sounds it makes for a little and see if your if pain comes back.

hdds tend to make a rather high pitch noise, when powered, but imo the slk3000b does a good job at covering them up. i had maxtor (yuck) hdds in mind and when accessing them it generated a very low frequency audible tone through the case which normally would sound like a loud clicking noise. anyway i then switched to the newer model seagate 7200.8 series drives, which are known for being noisy and i have to agree in part as i found them to be rather audible when exposed to an open environment, but when inside the slk3000b i can not near them during standard use any there's hardly any hdd seek noise resonating through the case.

sorry, all of that useless information probably won't be of much help to you, but then again, maybe it will.

oh and also you may want to try your old power supply out instead, just connect it with the side panel open and try the same thing. it's possible you could have a defective voltage regulator (did i say that right) causing ultra high pitch frequency to be output. a wonderfully expensive sony product i had once did similar to me once, until i finally lost it and smashed the lil sob.

Linknoid · Post by **Linknoid** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:53 am

Thank you everyone that's responded so far. Let me respond to the various suggestions all together.

Going to a doctor to check for sensativities, well, to be honest, I'm not sure what that would accomplish besides leaving me significantly poorer. I go in, they play noise, I tell them what frequencies hurt, and they tell me that I'm sensitive to them. Is that about it? Unless an audiologist can install case dampening in my head to remove the sensitivity, I just don't see the point. I know, from very extensive experience, that I'm extremely sensitive to any loud, low frequency sound.

I also know that I've been around various ultra-sonic sound sources before (including those rodent repellant thingies), and they've never affected me like this before. I can eliminate the monitor as the cause since I'm using the same one I've used the last 4 years. Even though I normally keep it at 85 Hz refresh rate, I'm quite certain it's been at various refresh rates down to 60 Hz without any problems in the past. I can hear the high pitch from TVs and monitors, and while that annoys me, I know it's not painful.

Also, I have a roommate and two cats around, and none of them react adversely to it. If it were ultrasonic, I would think it would drive the cats even more nuts than me. My roommate doesn't notice anything.

I guess testing components individually would be the most logical solution, I'm not sure why I didn't think of that.

The good news is that I'll be eliminating the stock CPU and northbridge fans once the new heatsinks arrive (tomorrow probably). The bad news is, if those don't fix the problem, it's probably going to be much more challenging to fix.

So I have the following moving parts:

Hard drive. Easy enough to pull the power. If it's inducing vibrations in the case, I guess I can explore various options.

Rear case fan. Again, simple to disconnect from power, but it probably wouldn't be case resonance, more likely it would cause an inaudible whistling noise through the grating or something?

CPU fan. Well, I don't want to turn this off completely, at least not with a stock heatsink. Once I get the XP-120 installed, it will either go away or it won't.

Northbridge fan. 9000 rpm, it's the noisiest thing in the case. This is going away for a passive heatsink, so I'll just wait on that too.

Power supply. I realized that that was a possibility just before reading that last comment. Testing that will be more of a challenge, especially since my old power supply isn't ATX 2.0 compatible and doesn't have all the connectors. But I guess I'll figure out something. Is there a chance that the Active PFC feature could be inducing some kind of electrical resonance?

I'm not sure when I'll be able to do any tests. I want to wait until I've completely recovered from the headache I got using the computer yesterday. I guess there's not too much I can do until I've done more specific testing.

Devonavar · Post by **Devonavar** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:16 pm

It's safe to stop the CPU and Northbridge fans for a few seconds at a time using your fingers to slow down the hub of the fan. This should help you establish which fans (if any) are causing the problem. It does mean you have to touch a live computer though. Be careful, and touch metal before you start poking around.

RedSnapper · Post by **RedSnapper** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:06 pm

Quite an interesting post. I suspect your harddrive is probably the culprit, without decoupling my Seagate produces and very low frequency hum in my 3000b, I can hear it from anywhere in the house, it's freaky. Also, my Maxtor produces a headache inducing whine. It's fine during the day when it's drowned out, but late at night (when the ambient noise is low) my ears start ringing, and if my head is in the right direction/position (the sound changes, if you see what I mean) it can feel like my brain is imploding. That sucker is coming out, just as soon as I've mirrored everything to the Seagate.

I hope you get it sorted, that sort of thing can't be healthy!

Linknoid · Post by **Linknoid** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:25 am

I finally got the heatsinks this weekend, and installed them. They made a huge difference, I'd say they eliminated most of the noise and 75% of the pain. However, there's still an issue with headaches and stuff. The headaches are at a much more tolerable level now, but not completely eliminated.

I also made a discovery by accident regarding this. I happened to set down a battery charger with a cooling fan on top of the case. It was vibrating quite a bit, and I got the same headaches from that, just about as bad, maybe worse, as I did with the computer turned on. I'm pretty sure it's a case issue.

I ordered AcoustiPack, I'll install that and see if it helps, but if it doesn't I guess I'll be looking for a new case...

Mar. · Post by **Mar.** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:44 am

Yea, it could just be dumb luck that the way you have your case set up, and where you have it at, what kind of surface it's sitting on, etc., causes resonance at some very high frequency that you can't really hear, but still causes you pain and headaches. Very possible.

neo_tofu · Post by **neo_tofu** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:12 pm

Linknoid wrote:I finally got the heatsinks this weekend, and installed them. They made a huge difference, I'd say they eliminated most of the noise and 75% of the pain. However, there's still an issue with headaches and stuff. The headaches are at a much more tolerable level now, but not completely eliminated.

I also made a discovery by accident regarding this. I happened to set down a battery charger with a cooling fan on top of the case. It was vibrating quite a bit, and I got the same headaches from that, just about as bad, maybe worse, as I did with the computer turned on. I'm pretty sure it's a case issue.

I ordered AcoustiPack, I'll install that and see if it helps, but if it doesn't I guess I'll be looking for a new case...

Hey dude I have the exact same A8V-E Deluxe and the SLK300B case as you.

And let me tell you that little bugger of a fan on that VIA chipset is driving me nuts too. I'm going to replace it just like you did with the NB47J as soon as possible but I'm going to hate taking the motherboard out of the case, that's going to be an adventure. I'm glad it reduced the noise for you.

I hope the AcoustiPack helps out as well

Cheers

jerryk · Post by **jerryk** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:43 am

Please let us know what you find out about this. My SLK3000B seems to really vibrate when I have 2 drives running. My vibration source is the drives, but the case develops a resonance vibration.

jerry

kevinc · Post by **kevinc** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:28 pm

In one of my machines I recently suspended the hard drive and also added another suspended hard drive. The new drive is quiet, but the old drive that was quiet when it was screwed into a 3.5" bay is now emitting audible seek noises.

Instead of bungee or clothing elastic I used laces from ice skates, because when I went to a local craft store and looked at their elastic, I found that the elastic was very weak. Using almost no force at all I could stretch it and it would be at 100% stretchedness and taut. The weight of a hard drive was easily enough to strech out the elastic. But, I do have some outdoor clothing etc. that has stronger elastic in it but I haven't been to a fabric store to try to find stronger elastic. The laces work well because they're "puffy" and since hard drives don't move very much the puffiness is enough to silence the hard-drive noises.

Anyway my point is, the old drive is tied up very tightly. What I'm going to do is get in there (the next time I have the computer open) and loosen it up a bit. Then, the old drive will be just as quiet as the new drive.

The seeking noises from this suspended drive are low in frequency, and sound kind of like bass drum from the party in the next apartment.

Kevin

neo_tofu · Post by **neo_tofu** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:59 pm

That doesn't sound too good.

I have a SLK300B too, only 1 HD and I haven't suspended it. I can definetly hear it but no resonating sound yet.

Does the acoustipak do anything to stop the resonating waves?

aaronspink · Post by **aaronspink** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:18 am

neo_tofu wrote:That doesn't sound too good.

I have a SLK300B too, only 1 HD and I haven't suspended it. I can definetly hear it but no resonating sound yet.

Does the acoustipak do anything to stop the resonating waves?

Mcmaster-Carr item number 9709T19. Enough to put multiple layers on the case. Will dampen out pretty much all vibration.