Chipsets for AMD processors, quirky by nature?

Java · Post by **Java** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:34 pm

Not to start a flame war, but per below thread I started, I've been a strong AMD fan for many years, but my recent failed attempt on a new 3200+ build has left me thinking its time to "go to the dark side"

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=21128

I found an interesting editorial on the topic:

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1786/

I'm still with a shell of a new system, debating on what guts I'll put in it. I want the extra bang for buck, but can't deal with the headaches of an AMD. Any thoughts on if the new Venice core has fixed the main problems (ie, memory) or is it mainly the same story. Despite the new chip sets having started shipping, most place are talking the first/mid May before they start selling them.

I seriously thinking about paying the extra $100 bucks and get a P4 640. Thoughts? Other than the extra $$, what is the down side? I'm planning on passively cooling the CPU with a silverstone NJ01 (I have a TJ106 Case). Also, the 6XX series has the Intel version of quiet/cool. Other down sides?

Thanks

m0002a · Post by **m0002a** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:40 pm

Whatever problems exist, are related almost exclusively to the motherboards and chipsets. With an Intel processor you have the advantage of using (if you desire) an Intel motherboard and of course the Intel chipset. Unfortunately, AMD does not make chipsets and motherboards.

If you stick with some of the more well name brands of motherboard, I don't think you will have any significant trouble. Waiting for the latest processor, chipset, motherboard, etc, can actually make things worse in terms of reliability and stability.

I just built a system with an Asus A8N-E and I am very satisfied. I first tried a Soltek K890-Pro with Via chipset, but had to RMA it because of Ethernet problems. So I would suggest, regardless of the processor, use a well known and established MB manufacturer.

Intel processors produce more heat than equivalent AMD processors, and that is big reason why they are used so often by people in this forum.

StarfishChris · Post by **StarfishChris** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:38 am

I would also say that getting a good name brand goes a long way towards avoiding problems. (Although I did get a PC Chips board 6 years ago (for K6-2) and I didn't have any problems with that.) As far as I can remember they were all VIA chipsets too, but never on the cutting edge when I got them. Intel has that advantage as they don't need to do any tweaking later.

I've never had a problem with memory either - I always got Crucial. The fact that they don't have 'matched pairs' speaks for itself...

(And you messed up your last sentence, m0002a!)
Intel processors will give you a fast PC, but they won't give you a silent PC without serious modding or watercooling.

Edit: Except for Celerons, but then you've already dropped in performance.

m0002a · Post by **m0002a** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:41 am

StarfishChris wrote:(And you messed up your last sentence, m0002a!)

Thanks, I have fixed it.

Java · Post by **Java** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:40 pm

If you stick with some of the more well name brands of motherboard, I don't think you will have any significant trouble. Waiting for the latest processor, chipset, motherboard, etc, can actually make things worse in terms of reliability and stability.

I always stay with name brands. On this build, I used Asus then switch to Abit on MB and Kingston HyperX then switched to Mushkin Blue Line. Again, I'm a loyal AMD user for many years. I always aligned with their "more bang for buck" position and was willing to pay the price in semi-instability (needing to be on top of component compatibility, driver updates, etc), but I'm reaching an end. I just don't have the time or patience to do all of that just to get a usable system.

Intel processors will give you a fast PC, but they won't give you a silent PC without serious modding or watercooling.

Ok. I agree the P4's run hotter than the A64, but my case (TJ106) and companion passive CPU cooler (NT01)was made for the P4. The case was very quiet (when it ran

) and that was with a stock cooler. The dual 120cm windtunnel "froze" my A64 to where it ran at 31' at idle. In fact, SPCR review the combo with a P4:

Overall, the cooling performance of the case, the NT01 heatsink and the wind tunnel is impressive. So is the fact that it can do it very quietly with stock fans.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article203-page6.html

So is my logic flawed that I should just be able to similar results with a P4 640? If anything with the speedstep, the results should be better.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:17 pm

My system is quiet and I don't have water cooling. What serious modding are you talking about? Are silent amd systems silent or just very quiet? If you have a case with good cooling, and and a good heatsink, an intel system will not catch on fire, but can be as quiet or silent as a similarly configured amd system. - FG

Green Shoes · Post by **Green Shoes** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:19 pm

Isn't that really the trade-off? With AMD you get a better price/performance ratio and the satisfaction that not everyone else in the world has the same computer as you

. With Intel, you get better stability simply b/c Intel makes their own chipsets. AMD has certainly come a long way from the dark ages when crappy VIA chipsets were the only choice you had, but Intel has a natural advantage due to this.

Just do us a favor, if you're going to go Intel, don't go with a Prescott...the second-leading cause of global warming after cow burps. Maybe a Pentium-M build?

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:02 pm

How much is stability worth? You might have to change your ratio to (better price)(hassle)/performance.

StarfishChris · Post by **StarfishChris** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:06 am

Prescotts dissipate about twice as much heat as the equivalent Winchester, so it's harder to cool. Hence the need for TAC. If you use yours then it's a potential escape route for noise.

I don't know how (well) undervolting works on P4, so I'm a little ignorant on that respect, but then you can undervolt AMD too so the difference still remains.

With a Winchester system and a well ventilated case you should be able to go passive with a tower heatsink and use case fan & PSU for exhaust at low speeds (maybe even a passive PSU if you only have one hard drive). The Prescott might be too hot for either suggestion. (but feel free to show a system that's like that - I'd be interested)

Re: TJ106. It's not a typical design. Doing that to your normal ATX case would fall under the 'serious modding' category IMO. Not that serious modding is bad, it's just not what many people are willing to do.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:15 am

I've changed the subject to "Chipsets for AMD processors" to avoid the confusion that I had briefly. Early K7 motherboards actually had AMD chipsets, before Via, Sis, and nVidia took over. Back in my pre-SPCR days, I remember eagerly waiting for AMD's dual processing chipset for their MP-series processors.

I believe that AMD still makes chipsets, but only for their higher end Opteron platforms. See the Tyan Thunder/Tiger K8xxx series.