My next Athlon

[Mats]

I'm trying to find out what to buy for my next PC.
It's a slow process, I've been jumping between PM and A64 many times
trying to choose sockets, chipsets, coolers, adapters, graphic cards... yeah you get it.

1. Finally have I made some conclusions. I'm trying to keep this quite low budget, and because of that I shouldn't sell my R9800 Pro because I won't get sh*t for it and a new, better card cost so much. My card is simply good enough for me. I'll keep the Zalman ZM80C cooler on it. No overclocking.

2. I want low power of course! PM(C0) or A64(E) is the way to go. I also want to overclock, but only if I can do it dynamically like SpeedStep or Powernow. While the PM probably gives higher FPS in games when maxed out, I finally concluded that I want A64 because of the integrated memory controller and possibly 64 bit extensions. I think I would enjoy this more in the long run rather than 10 FPS more in some game. PM wins when it comes to heat output, but I'd say A64 is cool enough for me. Besides, PM is more expensive and the mobo solutions are far from perfect. I could use a Sempron E but the price difference is too small.

3. So I need a S939 and AGP mobo that overclocks well, but I will use a divider for the memory. No expensive Samsung TCCD memory! I will use my good old Carmelized sugar Zalman CNPS7000A-AlChew. Nevermind annoying NB fans, I just put my Zalman NB cooler on it and a fan. A lot of Zalman products must fit together on this overclockable board. The only one I could find was the Epox 9NDA3J. Look how beautiful the NB, AGP and S939 lines up without being too close to each other. The "Insert" key clears CMOS, don't need to use jumper. It's not flawless though. The power connectors could be better placed. I'm still not totally sure about this choice, also looking at MSI K8N Neo2 and the upcoming DFI Lan Party nF3 939, but both probably involves some cutting in the heatsinks.
(Saw this review of a ULi M1695 Reference Mainboard, S939, real PCIE and real AGP, and overclocks very good. But I guess it'll take some time before we'll see it in the market.)

This is what I want to use in my next PC for now:

1. GeCube ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB with Zalman ZM80C-HP
2. AMD Athlon 64 3000+ revision E with Zalman CNPS 7000A-AlCu
3. DFI LANparty UT nF3 Ultra-D with Zalman ZM-NB47-J <- Changed mobo!
4. A pair of 512 MB RAM
5. Some decent Seasonic PSU

Later on I will get:
6. A 250 - 320 GB HDD, Samsung or WD (Hitachi T7K maybe????)
7. Some CD/DVD, dunno, not really important.

Questions:
- The mobo got C'n'Q but can't undervolt in BIOS. Can I still undervolt with software like CrystalCPUID?
- Is there still no one here who knows for sure which one of the mentioned HD's that are most low noise (or have I missed something )?
- Do you have any comments about the choice of components?

Thanks for your help!

[tempeteduson]

While the PM probably gives higher FPS in games when maxed out, I finally concluded that I want A64 because of the integrated memory controller and possibly 64 bit extensions. I think I would enjoy this more in the long run rather than 10 FPS more in some game.

What makes you come to that conclusion?

I have always known the A64 is superior (even to the P4) when it comes to games. Though the PM bests it in heat output, I think the A64 is a much better value and still able to be used in a quiet computer. Good choice!

As you can see, I'm an AMD man...

Anyway, regarding your component choices, I think they are great... but what chassis? And I think the optical drive is important when you discover that it is the loudest thing in your system. I would choose a Samsung model.

[Chris.Day]

The only one I could find was the Epox 9NDA3J. Look how beautiful the NB, AGP and S939 lines up without being too close to each other. The "Insert" key clears CMOS, don't need to use jumper. It's not flawless though. The power connectors could be better placed.

I have the 9NDA3J with the NB47J and with stock VGA coolers it fits unmodified. With a VGA Silencer on a 9800 Pro you have to bend half of the first row of fins on the Zalman to get it to fit - very easy with pliers. With a Zalman on VGA you shouldn't need to modify the NB47J at all.

It has another nice feature - press ESC to select boot device (similar to Biostar's 9th Touch feature).

Yes, you can undervolt in software.

As you say the power connectors are a little awkwardly placed (I have a Scythe FCS-50 and it's not really in the way of that since it can go over the top) and the SATA connectors are underneath the AGP card - you may need to buy right-angled SATA cables.

I have two Hitachi 7K250 drives (a 200GB and 250GB) and find them quiet enough (less noise than my Nexus NX-4090 PSU) but they do have a "cat meow" head sweep every 10 minutes or so when idle. In my DampTek'd case I can barely hear this noise. They will need suspending.

[Mats]

Thank you both for your help!

What makes you come to that conclusion?

I've seen what the PM can do compared to a FX, both overclocked over at xtremesystems.org, it is superior in many games when both are at max possible speed. We're talking guys that overclocks both AMD and Intel with no particular favo(u)rite, they just want the highest numbers in benchmarks. Yeah I know, they are xtreme...
Besides, some benchmarks in reviews show the same thing.
A64 is superior to P4 in games, no doubt about that. PM is a different story.

As you can see, I'm an AMD man...

Yeah, me too! Traditionally because of the P4 and prices. P4 is not the CPU for me. But there's another story about PM. I really can't say that I prefer A64 instead of PM. They're both very good. It's just that PM feels a bit outdated, a bit too pricey and too few mobos to choose from. I really think that its successor can be very interesting! Still want to see how much power it actually draws though.

Anyway, regarding your component choices, I think they are great... but what chassis? And I think the optical drive is important when you discover that it is the loudest thing in your system. I would choose a Samsung model.

I will use some old case in the beginning, not a problem and I'm not sure what to use anyway. I just don't wanna rush this one. I can use my old Aopen H700, it's just that it's so huge! I'm a bit tired of it. Been having some plans to build my own case, so that's also one reason to wait.
CD is really not important to me, I use it very few times. I had a cheap Lite On CD in my old PC and while it sounded some I couldn't care less, I can buy a Lite On again. It's simply not a factor for me when it comes to build a low noise system, but I can certainly understand that it is for others.

I have the 9NDA3J with the NB47J and with stock VGA coolers it fits unmodified. With a VGA Silencer on a 9800 Pro you have to bend half of the first row of fins on the Zalman to get it to fit - very easy with pliers. With a Zalman on VGA you shouldn't need to modify the NB47J at all.

It has another nice feature - press ESC to select boot device (similar to Biostar's 9th Touch feature).

Yes, you can undervolt in software.

As you say the power connectors are a little awkwardly placed (I have a Scythe FCS-50 and it's not really in the way of that since it can go over the top) and the SATA connectors are underneath the AGP card - you may need to buy right-angled SATA cables.

I have two Hitachi 7K250 drives (a 200GB and 250GB) and find them quiet enough (less noise than my Nexus NX-4090 PSU) but they do have a "cat meow" head sweep every 10 minutes or so when idle. In my DampTek'd case I can barely hear this noise. They will need suspending.

Good to find someone with the same mobo! I've done some measuring and as you say I probably don't need to modify anything on the heatsinks.

Thanks for pointing out that SATA connector, better get a new cable.

Anything else I should know about that mobo? Have you tried overclocking?

About Hitachi, taken from this thread:

Who asked about meowing:
From August last year all new Hitachi get the new firmware, quiet operation without meowing. If you want to upgrade your drive, ask for firmware update via e-mail at www.hgst.com

[Bitter Jitter]

Since you only have a 9800pro, both the A64 and PM would be held back by that.
Unless you enjoy watching the FPS counter while playing games the difference won't be noticable.
Better to save the money and put it towards a new graphics card in a year or so time.

The other reason i would not buy Intel is because of the annoying adverts which seem to plague TV, "Which includes a Intel Pentium 4 with HT technology" (Intel sound and logo).

Well it gets to me.........

BTW for your hard drive have you considered a laptop drive with a desktop in an enclouse for when you need extra storage?
Seasonic PSU's are great but expensive, what about a Fortron with a fan swap?

Just some food for thought.

[neo_tofu]

I don't know about the Zalman CNPS 7000A-AlCu, but I've got a Zalman 7700B and it is the loudest fan in my computer.

I followed similar instructions on SPCR and replaced that noisy fan with a Nexus.

[Mats]

Since you only have a 9800pro, both the A64 and PM would be held back by that.
Unless you enjoy watching the FPS counter while playing games the difference won't be noticable.
Better to save the money and put it towards a new graphics card in a year or so time.

Exactly my thought. But the reason is because that I think about the future, the choice of CPU for now is not that important. The ATI Rialto chip is my hero when I will upgrade the graphics card. No preformance drop, just a little bigger card that uses a little more power.

BTW for your hard drive have you considered a laptop drive with a desktop in an enclouse for when you need extra storage?

Actually yes, but I'd rather have only one big HD to keep it at low cost, then I can later buy an iPod for mobile storage use.

Seasonic PSU's are great but expensive, what about a Fortron with a fan swap?

Already tried Fortron with fan swap, not satisfied because of choice of fan. I've sold it. There aren't a lot of fans to choose between in Sweden.

I'm thinking of buying a Super Tornado 300, 18 A for the 12 V line should be enough even for overclocking a A64E and the 9800 Pro uses less than 0.2 A(12 V). Besides that I will only have CD, HD, HSF and a case fan, would never use more than 12 A on the 12 V line, probably more like 9 A max. I would rather have a S12 330 but they haven't showed up yet.

As an example, Cheapest Fortron 120 mm 300 W 400 SEK and a similar Seasonic 500 SEK. A decent fan (if you find one) is more than 100 SEK + shipping cost.

What do you say, is Super Tornado 300 enough for my PC?

Thanks for your help, Bitter Jitter!

[Mats]

I don't know about the Zalman CNPS 7000A-AlCu, but I've got a Zalman 7700B and it is the loudest fan in my computer.

I followed similar instructions on SPCR and replaced that noisy fan with a Nexus.

I've used mine for a year and I'm very satisfied with it, especially when going to sub FanMate speeds with SpeedFan.
I'm still tempted to attach a 120 mm Nexus on top of it, maybe I will. Will use my Yate Loon to try it out first and if it works well I'll order a Nexus.

[Bitter Jitter]

Actually yes, but I'd rather have only one big HD to keep it at low cost, then I can later buy an iPod for mobile storage use.

Two drives is certainly more costly. I would say that the new Samsungs would be the best, but i'm not sure i want to recommend them because my P80 keeps making a really high pitch sound for 5 minutes after i come out of standby and then goes away?
This has prompted me to consider buying a laptop hard drive and a serial desktop drive in an enclosure.

I'm thinking of buying a Super Tornado 300, 18 A for the 12 V line should be enough even for overclocking a A64E and the 9800 Pro uses less than 0.2 A(12 V). Besides that I will only have CD, HD, HSF and a case fan, would never use more than 12 A on the 12 V line, probably more like 9 A max. I would rather have a S12 330 but they haven't showed up yet.

I never knew the Super Tornado 300 had 18A on the 12v, that’s pretty strong!

What do you say, is Super Tornado 300 enough for my PC?

I can't see it being much of a problem for it, check my signature i have a Nexus 300w and that has only 15A on 12v, similar specification and i have had no problems what so ever.

If the difference is only 100SEK then i can see why your leaning towards the Seasonic, i would do the same.

Happy to Help.

[Mats]

I never knew the Super Tornado 300 had 18A on the 12v, that’s pretty strong!

Here are the numbers in the review. 14 + 8 A for the S12 330 is even more impressive!

What do you say, is Super Tornado 300 enough for my PC?

I can't see it being much of a problem for it, check my signature i have a Nexus 300w and that has only 15A on 12v, similar specification and i have had no problems what so ever.

Even for overclocking? I do believe so, but I just want to be certain about your opinion.
Now I see that you probably have a 130 nm one and they use something like the double power or the same as I will need if I'm lucky in overclocking! Ok, I'm not that worried.

[Mats]

Now I realize it's a bulk version: SS300FTA-T3SAT.
Except for shorter cables and such, is it still good enough?

[Bitter Jitter]

Yes i have the 130nm but its a Clawhammer that does not like undervolting so its slightly more power hungry than the Newcastle which i thought i was getting.
Its not a bad processor by any means i run it mostly at 1000MHz @ 1v. I still use the stock heatsink with the fan at 850rpm, it is easily the most quiet part of my computer. At idle it only reaches 38c with speedfan increasing the rpm gradually once it hits 42c.

The bulk version will be the same inside where it counts.
What is your priority, Performance? Silence? or Cost?
At that price you have the quietest power supply and probably the best quality one as well. I know i would rather have that one than some generic 400w or 500w piece of junk.

I doubt that seasonic will struggle with the overclock plus the rest, but if you want to make sure why not go for a 350w version?

[Mats]

The bulk version will be the same inside where it counts.
What is your priority, Performance? Silence? or Cost?

Well, it's always so hard to say...
I'm trying to keep it low cost, but performance + silence (= quality?) goes first when it comes to the PSU.

At that price you have the quietest power supply and probably the best quality one as well. I know i would rather have that one than some generic 400w or 500w piece of junk.

I doubt that seasonic will struggle with the overclock plus the rest, but if you want to make sure why not go for a 350w version?

Good point. The thing that makes it difficult is the lack of availability here in Sweden:
Tornado 300 bulk: 400 SEK
Tornado 400 retail: 800 SEK
S12 bulk (actually SS-401HT): 860 SEK

A S12 330 would probably cost somewhere around 600 when/if they show up. I'm going to check out that 300 W since it's so inexpensive and the store is in my city. If it's revision A3 then I'll take it.
But since I'm not in a hurry I should first make some calls and see if the S12 is on it's way.