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 Post subject: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:54 am 
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 9:37 am
Posts: 3
Hi there,

Long time viewer of this wonderful site, and also a lurker on the forum. Finally registered today because I am hoping for some advice from the good folks here.

I'm planning a new build around the Windows 10 release in July/August on the X99 platform.

I work in audio creation for games, and thus I need a quiet but also powerful build. Part of me thinks I should have 2 separate computers, one for gaming, and one for audio creation, but the issue with that currently is space.

My main question is, will the Scythe Kotetsu be enough to cool the 5960X? After a lot of googling online it seems that water cooling is supposed to be the way to go, but I'd really like to avoid that. I can deal with the constant hum of a fan much more than the random pump noises (I used to have a liquid PC from the now defunct VoodooPC)

As for 'why 5960X?' - I will get decent mileage out of the 8 cores as my software is programmed to take advantage of all cores/threads.

I'm not planning to overclock a huge amount if at all. My upper limit would be 4.0 Ghz.

Here's where I'm at so far:

Case: Silverstone Fortress FT-02 OR Fractal Design R5.
Motherboard: ASUS X99-Deluxe (though the new Sabertooth X99 looks pretty cool :D )
PSU: Seasonic X-1050
CPU: Intel i7 5960X
Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu (looked at Prolimatech Genesis, but apparently it is non-effective in a case like FT-02 with rotated motherboard)
RAM: 64 GB 2666/2400 Mhz 8 x 8 GB RAM (G.Skill or Corsair, undecided right now). For those who may ask, I have no problem filling up RAM once my music projects get really big.
Drives: Intel 750 PCIe SSD 1.2 TB. Samsung 850 Pro 5 x 1 TB. (without going into detail, I have several huge sound libraries that stream direct from disk, hence the large number of drives)
GPU: 2xASUS Strix 980.

I am open to any suggestions, money is no object as this machine will be central to my business. Any help given is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 11:43 am 
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Welcome to SPCR.

The short answer for the Kotetsu is: maybe. If you were to run stock speeds, then sure, no problem. If you look at the cooler's review, it keeps the 130W CPU at 42C rise over ambient @ 12dB(A). So, adding another 10W TDP is no big deal.

However, you plan to OC. I haven't tracked these CPUs to know what speeds you can get to without overvolting. Let's say you can stick to stock voltage and get the 33% OC. IF (and it's a big if) you truly stress the CPU with your apps, then you are looking at ~185W. Assuming the IHS thermal solution is similar to the review CPU, you'd see a ~60C rise over ambient...so somewhere in the 85C range. Then, if you have to overvolt, it'd be game over.

I'm assuming you've done some stress testing with your music composing s/w to see how much CPU loading is being done with your current setup to predict how much horsepower you'll actually need with the new build? I've seen a few forum members building PCs for orchestral levels of VSTs, and while they can use a lot of RAM, they didn't appear to need more than a socket 1150 i7.

Gotta go for now, but be aware that many of the mobo mfgrs are updating the boards for USB 3.1 (either with a board redesign or an add on card). Also, that X99 Deluxe has a lot of unhappy customers at Newegg.

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 Post subject: Re: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 9:37 am
Posts: 3
Hi, and thanks for your response.

The CPU requirement actually stems from heavy reverbs and effect plugins rather than the high numbers of orchestral instruments. CPU is actually a bottleneck more than disk speed/space and RAM. With the shift to everything on SSDs - running large numbers of orchestral instruments is really a piece of cake compared to what it used to be, but when you start stacking up analog emulations of synths and high quality reverbs, you can easily wipe out a whole core/thread.

But yes, your point is valid, maybe I don't even need to overclock. I'm running at 3.5 Ghz right now on a 4770K (which is a very overclockable chip) and I'm not missing the extra horsepower except when it comes to rendering time, which is where things really slow down for me. Perhaps the wisest thing would be to see how it goes at 3.0 Ghz (no OC) and take it from there.

I wonder with the arrival of 16 GB DDR4 RAM sticks if I should wait for Skylake (out in August / September I believe) - which has a very low TDP (95 W on the top chip, 60 W for the next one). This would enable me to get the 64 GB of RAM I want, and a chip with a high clock speed and low power supply, but I'm missing the extra cores so I may just be in a slightly better place than my current setup, as opposed to something a bit more 'future-proof'. I'd also be able to use the Kotetsu.

The cores vs CPU clock speed is the biggest debate I'm having - because what chip I decide on obviously affects the cooling greatly. I think the rest of the parts I'm pretty happy with.

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 Post subject: Re: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3845
Location: ITALY
garethcoker wrote:
PSU: Seasonic X-1050

Excellent PSU, but IMVHO not the best one noise wise.

Sticking with the same platform, the Seasonic Snow Silent 1050 and the EVGA SuperNOVA GS 1050 offer a better fan profile.
But noise wise I guess that something like the Corsair HX1000i or the EVGA SuperNOVA P2 1000 may offer a better outcome than any Seasonic.

Said that, you don't need a 1kW PSU: with a target of 4GHz an Enermax Platimax 600 is plentyful and probably quieter than the Seasonics (but in North America that PSU isnt' available, AFAIK), as well as the EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W (which is, on the contrary, easily sourceable in North America).


CA_Steve wrote:
So, adding another 10W TDP is no big deal.

It should be significantly more than 10W (maybe >30-40W?), even at stock (let's figure at 4GHz).


CA_Steve wrote:
Assuming the IHS thermal solution is similar to the review CPU, you'd see a ~60C rise over ambient...so somewhere in the 85C range. Then, if you have to overvolt, it'd be game over.

I'm afraid that you can't compare those results at (very) different thermal loads: my not so educated guess (I don't own an X99 rig) is that you need a different kind of cooler, something like a TR Silver Arrow (or maybe the Zalman Fx70) to cool those CPUs at relatively low airflow with acceptable noise levels. Even a 280mm AIO could be competitive and should be preferred over the little Kotetsu.

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 Post subject: Re: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 5:31 pm 
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Skylake: Yeah - sometime this fall...then add a couple of months to let all the early bug fixes and firmware updates to settle down and to make sure nothing's borked....call it November for a stable build. The chipset/mobo intros are expected next week at Computex. So, you can get a better feel for the builds....DDR4 and all. As far as CPU thread performance improvements over Haswell, Intel's been grinding out 5-10% improvements per architecture lately. Assuming nothing's changed, that's a roughly 10-20% bump for you, if you went with the socket 1151 i7 equivalent. On the other hand, maybe they pulled another SandyBridge and Skylake will be hugely faster :) Who knows.

Just wondering - are you using a z87 or a z97 board? Intel fixed some large DPC latency times (on the z87) when they brought out the z97.

Future-proofing: $1400 for the 5960X and the deluxe mobo. ~$600 for a Skylake i7 and a similar Asus Deluxe mobo. <shrugs>

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:06 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:

Just wondering - are you using a z87 or a z97 board? Intel fixed some large DPC latency times (on the z87) when they brought out the z97.

Future-proofing: $1400 for the 5960X and the deluxe mobo. ~$600 for a Skylake i7 and a similar Asus Deluxe mobo. <shrugs>


Using a Z87 at the moment. Performance is decent until it comes to rendering (both audio and video) which is where I always lose a ton of time, hence the desire for the extra cores. The software I use will happily take advantage of it.

But yeah, my 'earliest' build time is August. We'll likely know more about Skylake by then (there are already some benchmarks floating around the net). One thing that (I'm assuming) is beyond doubt, is that it will be a hell of a lot easier to cool (and therefore keep quiet) a Skylake processor than Haswell-E. I'd really like a 6-core Skylake, but that's not going to happen.

Thanks for the recommendation on PSU. That EVGA 750 looks like it might be right on the sweet spot. I thought 2 GFX cards + Haswell-E would require more power. I was wrong! I based my PSU choice (and cooler choice) on the list here at SPCR, the EVGA is not on the list but if this is endorsed by someone here (especially with a long posting history!) - that's a pretty solid recommendation!

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 Post subject: Re: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:32 am 
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Location: ITALY
garethcoker wrote:
Thanks for the recommendation on PSU. That EVGA 750 looks like it might be right on the sweet spot. I thought 2 GFX cards + Haswell-E would require more power. I was wrong! I based my PSU choice (and cooler choice) on the list here at SPCR, the EVGA is not on the list but if this is endorsed by someone here (especially with a long posting history!) - that's a pretty solid recommendation!

I don't like overkill, I don't like waste of either money or efficiency, but if price is no object, given how much you are willing to spend over such a system, the quietest PSU in the world is the Corsair AX1500i and by far, and personally I'd be very tempted by it.

But given you're talking of sweetspot, maybe the most valuable contender of the EVGA G2 is the Corsair HX750i: quieter and more expensive.
Just for ballpark figures, I'm expecting all the above quoted PSUs should run acceptably "quiet" under almost any scenario up to:

    Enermax Platimax 600 ~500W
    EVGA G2 750 ~450W
    Corsair HX750i ~700W
    Corsair RM1000 ~550W
    Corsair HX1000i ~800W
    EVGA P2 1000 ~800W
    Corsair AX1500i ~1200W


The mentioned Seasonic Snow Silent (750, 1050) and EVGA SuperNOVA GS 1050 may be valuable contenders, but I don't have enough data for high intake temp running (except something about the EVGA, recorded running 420W fanless @ 36°C/47°C by jonnyGURU.com), and there are great expectations about the freshly released BeQuiet! Dark PowerPro P11-series.

If you drop the LGA2011 platform in favour of any of the more frugal LGA1150/LGA1151 ones, IMHO the sweetspot could be the Rosewill Silent Night 500, in North America.

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 Post subject: Re: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 2:47 am 
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Location: London, UK
garethcoker wrote:
Using a Z87 at the moment. Performance is decent until it comes to rendering (both audio and video) which is where I always lose a ton of time, hence the desire for the extra cores. The software I use will happily take advantage of it.
Maybe you want a completely different beast? Are the two extra cores going to pull you out of the ditch? Possibly it's time to start thinking about 2 socket platforms, if this is your professional every-day workhorse.


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 Post subject: Re: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 3:06 am 
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Hi, if money is no object and you're bottle necked on rendering and it's truly able to make use of as many cores/threads as available then you might look at Xeon CPUs.
They are supported by your chosen X99 Deluxe and vary in core count/frequency highest I can see is E5-2699 v3 with 18 cores @ 2.3GHz and turbo up to 3.6GHz. http://ark.intel.com/products/series/81065/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2600-v3-Product-Family#@All.

Seb

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 Post subject: Re: 5960X cooling solution.
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 7:25 pm 
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I think that the suggestions are good and valuable. Also you may check different online shop for much metter option. Thanks

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