Hi,
short version: my system is pretty quiet and running great, but running too hot (speedfan says 60-65 C, normal load), esp. now that it's warming up outside.
longer version: my ASUS mobo died under warranty this winter, and was replaced with a slightly different animal. At the same time, I got a new fanless video card that runs very hot, and the two in combination are just going to town. Ideally I'd like to cool this down with a minimum of expense (though if good money would solve the problem forever...) and hardware tinkering (the case is a pain to work in, can't do much without pulling out the entire mobo). Is undervolting (something I know little about but am willing to learn) a good solution? Should I get a new case? Other pointers? How dangerous IYO is the temperature?
system:
Asus P5WD2-E Premium
Intel Pentium 4 530J 3.0 GHz (Socket 775) 975X Express ICH7R
Thermalright XP-90 heatsink
Noiseblocker SE2 92mm CPU fan
Corsair Corsair TwinX 1024Mo DDR2 XMS (2x512Mo) PC5400
Asus EAX1600XT Silent video card
Enermax Noisetaker 370W ATX 12V PSU
Noiseblocker SX2 intake fan
Noiseblocker SX2 Pro fan
Zalman ZM-MFC1 fan controller
Western Digital WD2000JD 200GB SATA 7200 (main)
Samsung SpinPoint P80 - 160 Go - SATA SP1614C
Toshiba SD-M1612 DVD
Plextor PX-716A DVD-R/RW
Lian Li V1000 case
I've wedged a third 120mm fan (came with the case) into the open space in the drive bay area, which is keeping the temp down about 5 degrees. Otherwise it'd be in serious danger zone at all times...
Thanks for your replies.
Help! I need better cooling for my fairly quiet system
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Well a 3Ghz Pentium 4 isn't exactly easy to cool, but looking at your setup, I'm not sure what would be causing excessively high CPU temps, and actually 60-65C isn't all that hot for a P4 under load. Maybe make sure that the CPU heatsink is well attached and that you don't have too much thermal paste. That could help 3-5C. Either that, or get a better heatsink.
The only problem I see with your setup is the trapped heat above the passive graphics card and the chipset nearby. Wedging a fan in the upper drive bays probably won't do much other than circulate some air. What you need to do is evacuate the air out of that area above the graphics card. An Antec slot cooler would do. It's a cheap solution that should help your video card temperatures quite a bit. It'll take up a expansion slot or two though (preferably the slot(s) closest to the graphics card).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835129025
http://www.jab-tech.com/Antec-Super-Cyc ... -2952.html
The only problem I see with your setup is the trapped heat above the passive graphics card and the chipset nearby. Wedging a fan in the upper drive bays probably won't do much other than circulate some air. What you need to do is evacuate the air out of that area above the graphics card. An Antec slot cooler would do. It's a cheap solution that should help your video card temperatures quite a bit. It'll take up a expansion slot or two though (preferably the slot(s) closest to the graphics card).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835129025
http://www.jab-tech.com/Antec-Super-Cyc ... -2952.html
I'd pull that "intake" fan-have it an exhaust. If you suck enough air OUT....air will come IN on its own. I didn't see anything on what case it is or if the CPU is overclocked at all. OC adds quite a bit of heat.
The point about heatsink contact is good. Probably more problems are related to too much thermal grease rather than too little. That's a pretty good HS...not tops but if you don't build up heat in the case-you'd be fine.
If the case does not have much clearance below-add feet-then do some floor intake holes. Consider ducting the CPU fan-maybe reverse it?
Depending on the case---think about where a second exhaust fan (the re-tasked inlet fan) can go.
The point about heatsink contact is good. Probably more problems are related to too much thermal grease rather than too little. That's a pretty good HS...not tops but if you don't build up heat in the case-you'd be fine.
If the case does not have much clearance below-add feet-then do some floor intake holes. Consider ducting the CPU fan-maybe reverse it?
Depending on the case---think about where a second exhaust fan (the re-tasked inlet fan) can go.
so...looking at the V1000 A -plus,I see an inverted mobo-goof floor clearance a rear exhaust probably more suited to a tower type HS. There's lots of mesh up front-which can mean plenty of passive air intake potential. Pretty case. I see a side fan you don't mention...maybe the - Plus model added that? With a HS like the T Right,airflow needs some planning or the heat eddys about and you just blow pre-heatted air at the CPU.
A side duct,with or without fan,can either let the HSF draw fresh/cooler air direct,or exhaust it direct-depending which way the HSF blows.
If like the pics I saw-the PSU and HDDs share the bottom-the PSU fan alone SHOULD cool the HDDs...unless fans are working against each other (and that's what I suspect). I may be looking at a newer,revised case-but I see a case that SHOULD cool great. You might drill a few holes in the floor to help cool hdds. Map out the planned air path on paper,make every fan have a purpose within a team effort-don't let them work against each other.
A side duct,with or without fan,can either let the HSF draw fresh/cooler air direct,or exhaust it direct-depending which way the HSF blows.
If like the pics I saw-the PSU and HDDs share the bottom-the PSU fan alone SHOULD cool the HDDs...unless fans are working against each other (and that's what I suspect). I may be looking at a newer,revised case-but I see a case that SHOULD cool great. You might drill a few holes in the floor to help cool hdds. Map out the planned air path on paper,make every fan have a purpose within a team effort-don't let them work against each other.
It's very hard to fry P4s except with very extreme overclocking. If they overheat they automatically underclock themselves to keep themselves alive. If your motherboard will allow it, undervolting could be a great solution. Most P4s will undervolt at least .1V at normal speed. I think there's a guide here somewhere on SPCR on it, and if not do a few spcr forum/google searches for undervolting guides and you should be able to do it. It's also possible that the reading from speedfan isn't very accurate (many motherboards vary the reported temperature by +/- 10C!). What do the temps look like in Bios, both from a cold and warm boot?
Worst comes to worse you may think about getting a batter heatsink or a faster fan for it. Generally I would think though that an XP-90 should be able to keep a P4 cool without making too much noise.
Worst comes to worse you may think about getting a batter heatsink or a faster fan for it. Generally I would think though that an XP-90 should be able to keep a P4 cool without making too much noise.
Thanks all, that's both helpful and reassuring.
My case is here. It has no side exhaust, and though there is lots of mesh for passive cooling, I think it also keeps airflow from working as it ought. There's basically nowhere else to put an exhaust fan, because of the inside partition. Unless I get out a hacksaw, of course.
I did choose the case for what looked like good layout and airflow as well as sleek look. The wheels are incredibly useful, as I'm always plugging & unplugging behind, and the bottom is mesh.
The slot cooler looks like a good idea. Might help airflow quite a bit. Other problem is, with mobo layout (image) the PCIx slot is almost right on top of the proc, i.e. those two heatsinks are practically kissing. Only available slots are above, but maybe if I look at airflow... Is diagramming it as simple as it seems, or should I consult an Expert somewhere?
System is not overclocked. I will check BIOS temps & get back to you on that.
I went easy on the Arctic Silver, and would have to dismantle everything to check that, so I'll save that as a last resort.
It is a good point that the intake and PSU fans are probably blowing at each other. Maybe that's why the second "intake" (can't really drag as it's behind no mesh, so it's mostly just pushing air out I think) helps.
My case is here. It has no side exhaust, and though there is lots of mesh for passive cooling, I think it also keeps airflow from working as it ought. There's basically nowhere else to put an exhaust fan, because of the inside partition. Unless I get out a hacksaw, of course.
I did choose the case for what looked like good layout and airflow as well as sleek look. The wheels are incredibly useful, as I'm always plugging & unplugging behind, and the bottom is mesh.
The slot cooler looks like a good idea. Might help airflow quite a bit. Other problem is, with mobo layout (image) the PCIx slot is almost right on top of the proc, i.e. those two heatsinks are practically kissing. Only available slots are above, but maybe if I look at airflow... Is diagramming it as simple as it seems, or should I consult an Expert somewhere?
System is not overclocked. I will check BIOS temps & get back to you on that.
I went easy on the Arctic Silver, and would have to dismantle everything to check that, so I'll save that as a last resort.
It is a good point that the intake and PSU fans are probably blowing at each other. Maybe that's why the second "intake" (can't really drag as it's behind no mesh, so it's mostly just pushing air out I think) helps.
I'm a little confused by what you mean by 'above'. Do you mean relative to motherboard slots, or physically above? Heat rises, so you would want the slot cooler in one of the 'lower' motherboard slots, which are physically 'above' since your case has an inverted motherboard layout.
You might also want to consider closing up vents to control airflow. All that mesh seems nice until you can't control or predict your airflow paths. Personally, I'd think about closing off the bottom vents. You might also want to consider closing off any unnecessary holes between the HDD/PSU area and the motherboard area. This could help you eliminate the HDD intake fan. Closing off the mesh in the bottom front of the main/motherboard section of the case will also help since it will force airflow over the chipset before it goes out the exhaust fans.
Diagramming airflow is simple. As long as you don't have side intakes, a simple MS Paint drawing does quite nicely. Here's what I'm thinking your cooling should be:
You might also want to consider closing up vents to control airflow. All that mesh seems nice until you can't control or predict your airflow paths. Personally, I'd think about closing off the bottom vents. You might also want to consider closing off any unnecessary holes between the HDD/PSU area and the motherboard area. This could help you eliminate the HDD intake fan. Closing off the mesh in the bottom front of the main/motherboard section of the case will also help since it will force airflow over the chipset before it goes out the exhaust fans.
Diagramming airflow is simple. As long as you don't have side intakes, a simple MS Paint drawing does quite nicely. Here's what I'm thinking your cooling should be:
Great diagram, very helpful. Yes, by "above" I meant above the PCIx slot, between that slot and the top of the case, just as you've drawn it.
Part of the trick here is that there's not enough room at the top of the case ("front mesh intake" in your diagram) for a fan. It's about 1.5" and then it's 5" drive bays. I could move my DVDs down, I suppose, but it would still be imperfect intake.
The idea of the case was that the intake would blow air across the HDDs, and together with the PSU they'd be pushing air up & out. I'm not sure this is working, and I think closing off some mesh is probably a good idea, especially in the lower part of the mobo section as you suggest, but the intake fan at the bottom of the case is definitely keeping the temperature "lower".
What's the simplest, safest, *coolest* material to block off mesh with?
Part of the trick here is that there's not enough room at the top of the case ("front mesh intake" in your diagram) for a fan. It's about 1.5" and then it's 5" drive bays. I could move my DVDs down, I suppose, but it would still be imperfect intake.
The idea of the case was that the intake would blow air across the HDDs, and together with the PSU they'd be pushing air up & out. I'm not sure this is working, and I think closing off some mesh is probably a good idea, especially in the lower part of the mobo section as you suggest, but the intake fan at the bottom of the case is definitely keeping the temperature "lower".
What's the simplest, safest, *coolest* material to block off mesh with?
I'm not suggesting that you put a fan in where the DVD drives are. I'm hoping that the exhasut fan and the slot cooler will draw enough air through the front mesh to keep that area cool. The "front mesh intake" is just an area where cool air is supposed to come in, not necessarily a fan.
I also just noticed something unusual. Is there an easy way for air to get from the HDDs to the PSU? There looks to be a solid partition down there. I was hoping that you could basically emulate what the P180 does. Isolate the HDDs and PSU in one chamber. That way you can have the PSU effectively cool the HDDs. If there is a partition there, then my design has a serious problem that you can't fix without some metal cutting.
If there is a partition, I'm thinking you could turn the front lower fan into an exhaust. After sealing off the two main sections (except for a little area for PSU and HDD cables), the front fan and the PSU will pull from the bottom vents and exhaust through the lower front mesh and the normal PSU exhaust.
The motherboard area should be able to be cooled by two decent sized exhaust fans, and I'm hoping the 120mm exhaust near the CPU and a slot cooler would be enough. If that's not possible, you might want to think of putting another exhaust somewhere in the top section of the system. You don't need intake fans in many cases. If you just have exhaust fans and control where the intakes are, you can keep everything cool and quiet.
Anything can be used to close off openings. I've used cardboard and tape in one of my cases to direct air. If you want it to look nice against the mesh, black construction paper or something like that would work also. Some people like to use fancy aluminum tape so its shiny.
Here's a new sketch. I've bolded the lines where you might want to close up any holes/vents.
I also just noticed something unusual. Is there an easy way for air to get from the HDDs to the PSU? There looks to be a solid partition down there. I was hoping that you could basically emulate what the P180 does. Isolate the HDDs and PSU in one chamber. That way you can have the PSU effectively cool the HDDs. If there is a partition there, then my design has a serious problem that you can't fix without some metal cutting.
If there is a partition, I'm thinking you could turn the front lower fan into an exhaust. After sealing off the two main sections (except for a little area for PSU and HDD cables), the front fan and the PSU will pull from the bottom vents and exhaust through the lower front mesh and the normal PSU exhaust.
The motherboard area should be able to be cooled by two decent sized exhaust fans, and I'm hoping the 120mm exhaust near the CPU and a slot cooler would be enough. If that's not possible, you might want to think of putting another exhaust somewhere in the top section of the system. You don't need intake fans in many cases. If you just have exhaust fans and control where the intakes are, you can keep everything cool and quiet.
Anything can be used to close off openings. I've used cardboard and tape in one of my cases to direct air. If you want it to look nice against the mesh, black construction paper or something like that would work also. Some people like to use fancy aluminum tape so its shiny.
Here's a new sketch. I've bolded the lines where you might want to close up any holes/vents.
Wow, this is beyond the call of duty and then some. I really appreciate the specificity of your replies.
There is a partition, solid metal, btwn the lower level (HDDs in front, PSU in back), with a large capsule-shaped opening for cables to pass--it's almost jammed closed with all the PSU cable.
There is nothing betwen the HDD bays and the PSU. Just little slide racks to mount the drives. But the PSU fans are exhaust fans, so I don't see how they're going to cool the HDDs. It might make sense to reverse the intake fan in front of the HDDs however, and just blow that heat out. (Some, though not much, must also escape through the bottom of the case, mesh and raised because of the wheels. The arrows in your diagram make more sense, however.)
I'm going to buy one of those slot coolers, to start. (I assume they're quiet enough, or nobody here'd be pimpin em?)
And when it arrives I'll try covering the mesh where you suggest (just the front panel, really, since the partition is solid) and reversing that front intake to make it an exhaust.
Again, many thanks, I'll report back here how I get on.
There is a partition, solid metal, btwn the lower level (HDDs in front, PSU in back), with a large capsule-shaped opening for cables to pass--it's almost jammed closed with all the PSU cable.
There is nothing betwen the HDD bays and the PSU. Just little slide racks to mount the drives. But the PSU fans are exhaust fans, so I don't see how they're going to cool the HDDs. It might make sense to reverse the intake fan in front of the HDDs however, and just blow that heat out. (Some, though not much, must also escape through the bottom of the case, mesh and raised because of the wheels. The arrows in your diagram make more sense, however.)
I'm going to buy one of those slot coolers, to start. (I assume they're quiet enough, or nobody here'd be pimpin em?)
And when it arrives I'll try covering the mesh where you suggest (just the front panel, really, since the partition is solid) and reversing that front intake to make it an exhaust.
Again, many thanks, I'll report back here how I get on.
Well for me its an interesting exercise in how I would cool your case, which is one I probably wouldn't buy myself (not a big fan of the mesh look and large case).
If there's no solid partitions between the HDDs and PSU, you might not need an intake fan if you seal the bottom vents. The PSU will pull air through the front, over the hard drives, and through the PSU. It doesn't take much air flow to cool hard drives, and this is what many people do with their Antec P180 cases, which have a similar partition for hard drives and the power supply. However from the pictures I've seen, in the V1000 the HDDs and PSU are separated by a solid wall, then you're better off using the front fan as an exhaust. Heat rises so its good to pull cool air from the bottom vent rather than try to force hot air down that way.
Slot coolers aren't usually recommended on this site much because they're generally not as good as the normal axial fans. But, when you need airflow, there's not much you can do sometimes. Also, the Antec ones at low power from a fan controller aren't all that noisy, at least not the one I've tried.
If there's no solid partitions between the HDDs and PSU, you might not need an intake fan if you seal the bottom vents. The PSU will pull air through the front, over the hard drives, and through the PSU. It doesn't take much air flow to cool hard drives, and this is what many people do with their Antec P180 cases, which have a similar partition for hard drives and the power supply. However from the pictures I've seen, in the V1000 the HDDs and PSU are separated by a solid wall, then you're better off using the front fan as an exhaust. Heat rises so its good to pull cool air from the bottom vent rather than try to force hot air down that way.
Slot coolers aren't usually recommended on this site much because they're generally not as good as the normal axial fans. But, when you need airflow, there's not much you can do sometimes. Also, the Antec ones at low power from a fan controller aren't all that noisy, at least not the one I've tried.
This is the power supply, it exhausts out the bottom (OK, top of the PSU, but it's upside-down here) and back. So I'm not really sure what you're recommending. Sounds like you're saying to flip the front intake fan to exhaust only if there were a partition in my case btwn HDD and PSU, which there isn't, so don't?
I will put the slot cooler on my Zalman controller, of course. Assuming it will connect.
I'm not such a fan of the mesh look (or cooling approach) any more, either
. Just don't feel like buying a new case if I can avoid it.
I will put the slot cooler on my Zalman controller, of course. Assuming it will connect.
I'm not such a fan of the mesh look (or cooling approach) any more, either
. Just don't feel like buying a new case if I can avoid it.Well, the pictures in that link you posted show a solid partition between the HDD and the PSU (maybe it's removable?).
If there isn't one, I think you could get away with not having a front intake fan at all since the PSU will pull air through the bottom chamber and cool the HDDs (as long as you close the bottom vents). Your PSU will see slightly hotter air, but unless you have a ton of HDDs, it shouldn't be hot enough to be a problem. I think in the SPCR test configurations they had a WD Raptor hard drive in the bottom bay of a P180 and just used the PSU to cool it.
The PSU should not exhaust through the big fan unless someone did some modifications. I'm pretty sure those Enermax PSUs exhaust through the small 80mm fan opening in the back. The bigger 120mm fan is an intake. Otherwise, it's dumping hot air into the case, and in a normal ATX case, it would be dumping hot air right onto the CPU!
If there isn't one, I think you could get away with not having a front intake fan at all since the PSU will pull air through the bottom chamber and cool the HDDs (as long as you close the bottom vents). Your PSU will see slightly hotter air, but unless you have a ton of HDDs, it shouldn't be hot enough to be a problem. I think in the SPCR test configurations they had a WD Raptor hard drive in the bottom bay of a P180 and just used the PSU to cool it.
The PSU should not exhaust through the big fan unless someone did some modifications. I'm pretty sure those Enermax PSUs exhaust through the small 80mm fan opening in the back. The bigger 120mm fan is an intake. Otherwise, it's dumping hot air into the case, and in a normal ATX case, it would be dumping hot air right onto the CPU!