Stick with XP (or try Linux)

that Linux guy · Post by **that Linux guy** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 am

Ive heard of way too many problems with Vista, particularly with system drivers. If you ask me, it's bloated (but windows has been since Windows 95), and vista's hardware needs are absurd. I currently run a Athlon64 3500+, 1.25Gb RAM, 7900GS PCIe, and a couple of harddrives and my system isn't up to vista snuff. It runs XP and games just fine, as well as other OS's. I won't bug you getting you to try Linux, but Linux make computing interesting again for me. Just a thought. I'm not a regular Windows user, but as far as MS is concerned, I'll stick with XP until I'm forced to upgrade, one way or another.

I accidentally posted a new topic. Sorry.

sanse · Post by **sanse** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:42 am

that Linux guy wrote:Ive heard of way too many problems with Vista, particularly with system drivers. If you ask me, it's bloated (but windows has been since Windows 95), and vista's hardware needs are absurd. I currently run a Athlon64 3500+, 1.25Gb RAM, 7900GS PCIe, and a couple of harddrives and my system isn't up to vista snuff. It runs XP and games just fine, as well as other OS's. I won't bug you getting you to try Linux, but Linux make computing interesting again for me. Just a thought. I'm not a regular Windows user, but as far as MS is concerned, I'll stick with XP until I'm forced to upgrade, one way or another.

30 years ago there even wasn't Internet... only simple telephones without an in-built addressbook... if you wanted to speak to someone you'd visit him/her in the real world by bicycle... 30 years before that period there weren't even computers...

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:30 pm

The only way for you to fully answer your question is for you to try them both.
Iâ€™ve yet to find a Linux Distro that isnâ€™t a royal pain in the ass but I installed Vista x64 SP1 this week as a demo and so far Iâ€™m liking it; early days though.
Everyoneâ€™s different, give â€˜em a go.

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:03 am

Vista is indeed a pig. The requirements it lists are JUST to run the OS, not to do anything useful with it. The OS needs to get out of the way and let you do what you want to do, and that's what Linux does. Windows users will never know what a fast computer really feels like (unless they run the previous generation windows) because MS keeps ramping up their bloat. I can run the same version of Linux on my AMD64x2, and it's still usable on a P223. Mandriva is pretty easy to install and maintain, give it a try.

fjf · Post by **fjf** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:45 am

I tried linux (red hat) years ago, before internet, and I could not make it work. After the vista fiasco, I gave Ubuntu a new try. Boy, things have changed for the better!. Free, amazing GUI (compiz is called) and with an enormous community in their forum that help you when the search gives you nothing. Right now I keep a XP partition for gaming (for the kids), but for home use it suits all my needs. Amazing (and free) software. Even some great games. You should try it.

fri2219 · Post by **fri2219** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:36 pm

I strongly suggest trying a LiveCD first if you're interested in Linux.

Some of the ones I like include:
Ubuntu
Knoppix
SuSE
Fedora

that Linux guy · Post by **that Linux guy** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:05 pm

WOW! I should accidentaly post Linux-promoting threads more often

I only suggested Linux cause it's a great desktop OS for the computer user who likes to tinker. I would say computer people, but my family is all computer people to some degree and they either don't know what Linux/UNIX is, or the ones that took it in college, hate it. I was getting bored with computers till I found Linux. It was hard at first, but Ive done pretty good at learning the ropes of basic system administration and configuring user apps, like Evolution, Amarock, etc. I've helped a lot of people ease into Linux, cause they didn't like or refused to upgrade to Vista. I don't have anything against MS. They're a company, out to make a buck. Nothing wrong with that right? I just don't like Windows. It's bloated, often times unstable, and expensive. XP home is still $115. I won't bash Windows. It's a fully usable OS, and fits the needs of some people. I chose to use Linux because I like what Linux stands for. Code: by the computer user, for the computer user. Plus, having worked as a PC tech for a while, I don't really know how Windows works. I just know what fixes the problems. Not too many people know how windows works, and the ones who do have no way of beginning to explain it. Once you learn Linux (and you do have to learn Linux), then it's as easy to troubleshoot than anything else. It makes more sense than windows, to me at least. It's understandable, easier to use in some cases, and it's free. You can't beat free.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:20 pm

i use linux on almost a daily basis (forced myself by putting it on my laptop) and the only complaint that i have is about Wine, and the compatibility (or lack of) with a lot of programs.

past that, i wish it supported my hardware better, but i get away with 64bit Ubuntu easily. i'd love to change Distros, but for me, Grub is easiest when i'm using a distro i know very well.

frostedflakes · Post by **frostedflakes** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:28 pm

My opinion on Linux.

I love the idea behind open-source and am thankful there are people out there who take the time to use test and develop Linux, because there are many applications where it is preferable to commercial software like Windows (low-cost/embedded systems come to mind immediately). I wouldn't want to live in a world without Linux, but at the same time I would never use it as the OS on my main PC. I want stuff to just work, and because basically all hardware and software out there is compatible with Windows XP, that's what I use. To me Linux seems to be a lot of extra work for little/no gain.

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:29 pm

that Linux guy wrote:You can't beat free.

I agree. Having more â€˜freeâ€™ time because I donâ€™t want to take the time to learn a new system that is currently inherently more geeky than Windows works for me.

One of the things that people usually forget to mention about Linux is that for me to get up to speed with Linux to the level that I am with Windows would be a major undertaking and for me not worth the financial saving.
I do appreciate Linux for its underlying philosophy and openness though and hope to see it continue to flourish.
I do though get bored with the argument that Linux uses $5 less RAM and $6 less disk space than Windows although itâ€™s not usually presented in such a prosaic manner.

It would be useful if someone would post on SPCR a beginners guide to using Linux from an SPCR perspective. E.g. what do I use to replace Speedfan, RMClock, SMART monitoring, ATI Tool etc. That would be really useful.

Plekto · Post by **Plekto** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:53 pm

A good compromise is Xandros. No, it's not free. Yes, it runs MS office and a lot of windows apps.

It's a candy-coated, yuppie-friendly Linux distro with loads of Microsoft and Mac type hand-holding included. People in the hardcore Linux community pan it, but for a first time user, it's excellent as it has a very minor learning curve.

Dutchmm · Post by **Dutchmm** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:45 am

It would be useful if someone would post on SPCR a beginners guide to using Linux from an SPCR perspective. E.g. what do I use to replace Speedfan, RMClock, SMART monitoring, ATI Tool etc. That would be really useful.

Most of the monitoring you want is handled by lm-sensors, which collects the information (not SMART, but you can schedule SMART analysis using crontab and the tools described here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6983) and gkrellm seems the best at presenting it.

Someone recommended a liveCD linux distribution as a means for windows users to put their toe in the water. I endorse that. It is not as painful as you are expecting. My daughter was visiting us this weekend, and used her mother's computer where we run Mandriva 2008.0. she had no trouble adapting from:

MSN Messenger (she runs XP) -> aMSN
Word -> Open Office Writer
Internet Exploder -> Firefox
Nero -> K3B (yeah, there are some rough edges, and don't start me on making DVDs from a TV recording)

I don't think I have converted her to the penguin yet, but she sees the threshold as much lower than she had imagined.

The other thing you could do is download the VMWare player - it is free - and one of the Linux appliances available on the VMWare website. These include - the last time I looked - beta or release candidate versions of Mandriva and - I think - Ubuntu.

If you have specific questions about how to use or set up lm-sensors, fell free to PM me.

Regards

Mike

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:33 am

Dutchmm wrote:Most of the monitoring you want is handled by lm-sensors, which collects the information (not SMART, but you can schedule SMART analysis using crontab and the tools described here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6983) and gkrellm seems the best at presenting it.

My daughter was visiting us this weekend, and used her mother's computer where we run Mandriva 2008.0. she had no trouble adapting from: (List of appps)

The other thing you could do is download the VMWare player - it is free - and one of the Linux appliances available on the VMWare website. These include - the last time I looked - beta or release candidate versions of Mandriva and - I think - Ubuntu.
Mike

Thanks Mike.
I have installed Ubuntu 7.10 manually in VMWare Workstation and just installing VMWare tools was a convoluted command line operation that gave me a negative first impression.
Iâ€™m not so concerned about adapting to new applications as to the learning curve involved in configuring the O/S itself. I feel an aversion to having to use the command line for routine installation tasks; I guess Iâ€™m getting lazy in my old age.
Iâ€™m actually enjoying demoing Vista x64 at the moment but maybe I should keep that to myself.

Speedfan works as normal except that SMART monitoring isnâ€™t working.

Dutchmm · Post by **Dutchmm** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:56 am

well, as near as dammit .... And I agree, by the way, about the VMWare tools. A genuine PITA. A pity, because I still found VMWare WS good enough to pay 200 bucks of my own money for a copy.

Seriously, if you install Mandriva in WS, you will have to install the tools from the command line, or add the tools CD as a source in the Mandriva Control Center (MCC). If you take this line, you will not have to use the command line to install, update, or remove packages.

You would need to run sensors-detect (which sets up the temperature, fanspeed, and voltage checks) from the command line; probably as root. But after that you can control the sensors service through MCC. And gkrellm has a graphical configuration feature.

that Linux guy · Post by **that Linux guy** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:41 am

I haven't used VMware workstation, but I've never had any trouble with VMware Server. When I was on AOL dial up, Ubuntu 5.10 didn't recognize my modem, and come to find out, It doesn't play well with AOL. Such a newb I was. I re installed XP but kept Ubuntu as a virtual machine until I could back up my stuff later, and play with Knoppix, then fully moving over to Ubuntu 6.10. The only trouble I've had with VMware products is getting Vmware Server 1.04 configured on Debian Lenny/Sid. Lenny/Sid are Debian Linux's codenames for testing/unstable. Vmware needed to make modules, but it needed those modules to be made by the same version of the GCC compiler that had made my kernel. A difference of 1.14 to 1.24. I had to recompile my kernel to get it working right. And come to find out, it's just as big of a resource hog in Linux as it is in Windows. Go figure

I don't use it much, except to play around with Solaris 10, which I have some odd fascination with. I don't think Linux is very hard to use. It's different, and it's not for every one, but once you get the command line basics down, it's easy as pie. For learning basics of the command line and shell scripting, I suggest visiting <a href="http://www.linuxcommand.org">www.linuxcommand.org</a>. It's a great site. I'm also working on a site of my own, teaching those curious about Linux, UNIX, and Network Administration.

that Linux guy · Post by **that Linux guy** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:58 am

frostedflakes wrote:My opinion on Linux.

I love the idea behind open-source and am thankful there are people out there who take the time to use test and develop Linux, because there are many applications where it is preferable to commercial software like Windows (low-cost/embedded systems come to mind immediately). I wouldn't want to live in a world without Linux, but at the same time I would never use it as the OS on my main PC. I want stuff to just work, and because basically all hardware and software out there is compatible with Windows XP, that's what I use. To me Linux seems to be a lot of extra work for little/no gain.

True, in some cases. I chose to learn Linux because it's a growing server platform for SMB, and Enterprise Networking. There are plenty of jobs for Linux SysAdmins, but not enough skilled IT guys (and gals) to fill the positions. Sure, I could get my MCSA with some college and be part of the dime-a-dozen Windows IT crowd, of I could learn Linux, and be out from the norm a bit. Sure, chances are, client machines and possibly some servers (like Exchange) will be Windows based, but HTTP/FTP servers, firewalls/custom routers, SQL DBs, Application servers, SANs, and clusters w/ virtualization will be more than likely running on a Linux platform.

Yes, it does take time to learn the basics, but once you know them, its not very hard. Working on cars isn't that overwhelming when you know how each system works, and how those systems work together, right? You're brain is sorta like a muscle in that the less you use it, the quicker you build up strength. At a young age, we learn to use Window. Which icon means what, clicking here but don't click here, etc. With time, though, how much do you really keep learning? I've been studying Linux for almost 3 years now, and I will say, I've learned more in every way in those almost 3 years than the rest of my years combined. When you learn Linux, you also learn about learning. It makes other subjects easier to learn. It takes some effort, but the result is something that will last a lifetime. That's my take.

roach · Post by **roach** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:30 pm

* Set up dual boot, try Linux, I recommend Kubuntu.
* Keep XP for your windowze partition

Vista has no added value, just added bloat.

If you're a gamer you'll want to keep XP on the system, that's why dual boot is great.

I personally use Linux for all of my server applications, including my Samba box I use for my Windowze Active Directory server on my LAN. My desktops are mostly Windowze XP with the exception of my secure email and web station which is Kubuntu.

My firewall is OpenWRT Linux on an Asus AP.

I tried Vista. It has since been removed. No practical value.

I share a lot of what my friends and I know about Linux on our wiki. Feel free to visit http://linux.dbw.org/

Stick with XP (or try Linux)

Stick with XP (or try Linux)

Re: Stick with XP (or try Linux)

Just boot off the CD/DVD, and you're using Linux!

Here is the first stone ...

Re: Here is the first stone ...

No command line required in Mandriva