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 Post subject: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new case
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:58 am
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Hi everyone.

I need some advice on a mITX system.

The story short:
I have started to look around for the replacement for my 5 year old HP desktop.
Im a semi-casual gamer, so my needs are for a solid gaming system, but not necessarry top-notch.
I don't need crystal sharp, multimonitor fps-gaming. But something that can handle games like Skyrim, Civ5, Coh2 as well as future titles in these genres + GTA5, Masseffect and so on.

A major point for me is noise. I need a system that doesn't sound like an asmatic orca, as I am going to play in my living room with my GF still being able to be in the room without being bothered by a wheezing system.
If possible, it should also be fairly portable for the rare but occational LAN-party. (Noise is 1st priority, however)

Im probatly going to buy a system from a danish PC-builder called MM-Vision (some minor tailoring should be possible, as i know a guy there). I have spendt a lot of time lurking and searching, and with danish componet prices, I will only save pebbles by building myself, also, with a professional build they are responsible for any breakdowns within the first two years. So please, no "Just build it yourself" posts, i have already looked into the possiblities :)

The build (https://www.mm-vision.dk/visiongaming/v ... -lan-party)

CPU: i5-4690 (assuming they let me upgrade from i5-4590)
GPU: ASUS GTX660-DC2-2GD5(i already have this bit)
Mobo:Asus H81I-Plus mITX
Memory: Kingston 8GB DDR3-1866 HyperX FURY
Case: CoolerMaster Elite 130 ITX
Cooler:Scythe CPU-Cooler
PSU: Seasonic 650W 80+ gold
SSD: Crucial 256GB MX100
HDD: 1TB Seagate Barracuda (7200rpm, 6GB/s)


Without the GPU the build should cost about 7200 danish kroner (roughly 700£ or 1020 $)

Also, should i consider a better Mobo, like a Z87 or 97? It will affect the price considerably.
And should I scrap the idea of HDD in the name of silence? Again, the alternative is rather expencive.

To sum up:
Will the mITX build with a Coolermaster Elite 130 case be silent (relatively) or should i stick with a more designated silent case build?

I already bought a decent GPU (ASUS GTX660...) last year, so i would rather not get rid of it already, unless sticking with it is directly stupid/counterproductive.
Silence above portability if both cannot be achived.

I hope you can help me with some input or considerations.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


Last edited by Deer87 on Mon May 11, 2015 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 618
Location: de_DE
Deer87 wrote:
To sum up:
Will the mITX build with a Coolermaster Elite 130 case be silent (relatively) or should i stick with a more designated silent case build?

With a less noisy hard drive and with the included fans running at 7V the system should run quiet, not silent, by the standards of this site.
Deer87 wrote:
And should I scrap the idea of HDD in the name of silence? Again, the alternative is rather expencive.

The case is very lightweight and the hard drive decoupling that comes with case is not very effective. A hard drive with less vibration than a 3.5" 7200 RPM model will reduce the noise. 3.5" 5X00 RPM drives vibrate less, 2.5" 5X00 RPM vibrate even less. Neither option should considerably increase the price.
Deer87 wrote:
Also, should i consider a better Mobo, like a Z87 or 97? It will affect the price considerably.

The CPU you selected is a good fit for the system. The only upgrade that can increase performance in CPU limited games (like Civ 5 and Skyrim) is a 4790K, even if you don't (and can't in a H81 board) overclock it. The base and boost clocks are both 500MHz higher than those of the 4690, the price increase is ≥1000Kr.
The major benefit of a Z87 or Z97 mainboard is that you can overclock an unlocked CPU even further, but you would be limited by temperature and thus the CPU cooler. You can put an AIO water cooler like the Corsair H80 in the case. With the CPU upgrade, the mainboard upgrade and the cooler you're looking at ≥2000Kr.
Any upgrade to the CPU beyond the 4690 will be expensive.

Intel will introduce new consumer level CPUs named Skylake with matching chipsets by the end of August this year and there will be upgrade path from older components. No major performance increase in the CPU is expected, the main advantages are the new connectivity options in the new chipset especially for NVMe SSDs.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:09 pm 
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Location: ITALY
Deer87 wrote:
Im probatly going to buy a system from a danish PC-builder called MM-Vision

Given the limited options offered on their website, and the budget contraints, personally I wouldn't go with a mITX rig whether quietness is paramount (although their enclosure line-up is rather poor: a Be quiet cooler with a Fractal Core 3000 enclosure is what I'd look to, at first glance).

With reference to money, spare some with a smaller Seasonic: you don't need 650W, and at any rate a 650W Seasonic unit is not quieter than a smaller one at your expected power draw.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:58 am
Posts: 25
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
boost wrote:
Deer87 wrote:
Also, should i consider a better Mobo, like a Z87 or 97? It will affect the price considerably.

The CPU you selected is a good fit for the system. The only upgrade that can increase performance in CPU limited games (like Civ 5 and Skyrim) is a 4790K, even if you don't (and can't in a H81 board) overclock it. The base and boost clocks are both 500MHz higher than those of the 4690, the price increase is ≥1000Kr.
The major benefit of a Z87 or Z97 mainboard is that you can overclock an unlocked CPU even further, but you would be limited by temperature and thus the CPU cooler. You can put an AIO water cooler like the Corsair H80 in the case. With the CPU upgrade, the mainboard upgrade and the cooler you're looking at ≥2000Kr.

Okay, so choosing the 4690K and a OC motherboard would be futile, because of other liminting factors, unless i build something that in general is more powerful?

boost wrote:
The case is very lightweight and the hard drive decoupling that comes with case is not very effective. A hard drive with less vibration than a 3.5" 7200 RPM model will reduce the noise. 3.5" 5X00 RPM drives vibrate less, 2.5" 5X00 RPM vibrate even less. Neither option should considerably increase the price.

I figured that "More is better", but what you say makes sense. Luckily it is a part i can easily buy seperatly.
I figure i could also get a 500 gb ssd, and then get another one when needed. Are there major downpoints on having a pure ssd gaming system? I have heard that due to how it rewrites, storing can get slow after some time.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Given the limited options offered on their website, and the budget contraints, personally I wouldn't go with a mITX rig whether quietness is paramount (although their enclosure line-up is rather poor: a Be quiet cooler with a Fractal Core 3000 enclosure is what I'd look to, at first glance).

With reference to money, spare some with a smaller Seasonic: you don't need 650W, and at any rate a 650W Seasonic unit is not quieter than a smaller one at your expected power draw..


I can go higher, if I feel it is worth it, the budget is more based on me not being a full time gamer.
How important is the quality of the PSU. I figure choosing a gold model will help keeping the heat down?
Would 450 W be more fitting?

Regarding their builds - would this build be a better choice? That means giving up on the mITX dream.

(https://www.mm-vision.dk/vision-game-green-silent-pc)

CPU: i5-4690
GPU: ASUS GTX660-DC2-2GD5
Mobo: Asus B85M-G
Memory: Kingston 8GB DDR3-1866 HyperX FURY
Case: CoolerMaster Silencio 352
Cooler: Be Quiet Pure Rock
PSU: Seasonic 450RT 80 Gold
SSD: Crucial 256GB MX100
HDD: 1TB Seagate Barracuda (7200rpm, 6GB/s)


Looks like its back to the drawingboard for me :)
Heck, i might even have to build it myself.

I have looked at following alternative mITX cases:
Bitfenix prodigy
Fractal Design Node 304
Thermaltake Core V1

SPCR seems quite content with both Bitfenix and the Fractal DN 304, and i got the V1 recommended on tom's hardware.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:11 am 
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Quote:
Okay, so choosing the 4690K and a OC motherboard would be futile, because of other liminting factors, unless i build something that in general is more powerful?


Not futile for the i5, maybe futile for an i7....or at least $100 more spent for just a little gain.

Negligible price difference between the i5-4690 and i5-4690K (at least in the US). For a few bucks more, it gives you the option to OC. The majority of games don't make use of hyperthreading, so the big benefit of the i7 would be the higher base/boost clock. Lots of games are CPU dependant and faster clock = faster fps. However, once you are up in the 3.5GHz range, most games are fine with it.*

The other big factor is your monitor resolution and the Gfx card. If the game is heavily dependant on the GPU, then a midrange i5 is fine - once the GPU hits 100% loading, a faster CPU won't do anything.

I tend to buy the unlocked CPU and run it at stock speeds....until I come across a game that needs a boost (general somewhere in year 3+ of owning the CPU).

*Another factor is the amount of overhead on the one CPU core used for control by the gfx card. Once that core hits 100%, it doesn't matter that the other cores are unloaded, your fps will max out. So, a faster CPU will raise this self-imposed fps limit. This is going to be one of the huge benefits of DX12 when it arrives with Windows 10. It greatly reduces the overhead and spreads the functionality out amongst the CPU cores/threads. So, a game running under DX12 might see a 20% fps bump over the same game under DX11.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 618
Location: de_DE
Deer87 wrote:
boost wrote:
Deer87 wrote:
Also, should i consider a better Mobo, like a Z87 or 97? It will affect the price considerably.

The CPU you selected is a good fit for the system. The only upgrade that can increase performance in CPU limited games (like Civ 5 and Skyrim) is a 4790K, even if you don't (and can't in a H81 board) overclock it. The base and boost clocks are both 500MHz higher than those of the 4690, the price increase is ≥1000Kr.
The major benefit of a Z87 or Z97 mainboard is that you can overclock an unlocked CPU even further, but you would be limited by temperature and thus the CPU cooler. You can put an AIO water cooler like the Corsair H80 in the case. With the CPU upgrade, the mainboard upgrade and the cooler you're looking at ≥2000Kr.

Okay, so choosing the 4690K and a OC motherboard would be futile, because of other liminting factors, unless i build something that in general is more powerful?

If you are happy with the performance of the GTX660, the i5-4690 shouldn't limit your experience.

For more future proofing I was outlining two distinct options, not requirements, because you specifically mentioned two games that can be CPU limited: Skyrim and Civ5:
1. Highest CPU speed with H81 board -> 4790K
2. Highest CPU speed in a Coolermaster Elite 130 -> Z87/Z97 board, unlocked CPU and 120mm AIO watercooling.
The second one very doable in a Coolermaster Elite 130, a lot of people who like small form factor systems and overclock their CPUs build systems like this. That case is one of the smallest that can fit the AIO water cooler without mods.

Doing it is not futile, just expensive. The benefit for games is small. Generally speaking most games are GPU limited.
CA_Steve wrote:
*Another factor is the amount of overhead on the one CPU core used for control by the gfx card. Once that core hits 100%, it doesn't matter that the other cores are unloaded, your fps will max out. So, a faster CPU will raise this self-imposed fps limit. This is going to be one of the huge benefits of DX12 when it arrives with Windows 10. It greatly reduces the overhead and spreads the functionality out amongst the CPU cores/threads. So, a game running under DX12 might see a 20% fps bump over the same game under DX11.

If a games supports DX12 that will be true. A lot of them use engines that only support an older DirectX version, Skyrim from 2011 is still DX9.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:50 am 
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Deer87 wrote:
How important is the quality of the PSU. I figure choosing a gold model will help keeping the heat down?

The efficiency is just a part of the equation, maybe not even the most important.
It is important in order to not dumping heat into the enclosure, thus speeding up the case fans, but about the PSU fan itself it is more important the relevant fan controller behaviour. With respect to that, Seasonic ones are usually rather conservative (aggressive, they speed up quickly the fan to react to any temp increase, and at any rate they dial up the fan past the about 50% of the rated power), so they are not the most ears-friendly (and the S12G are slightly the more aggressive among the Seasonic-branded Gold units).
Broadly speaking they would need a cool place where running the fan at its idle pace (as a large Fractal R5, for instance), while a mITX shoebox isn't exactly so.
Another aspect is the electronic noise, and with reference to that, among the quiet PSUs the Seasonics are easily the worst ones.


Deer87 wrote:
Would 450 W be more fitting?

Yes and no: yesterday I've answered taking into account mostly the relevant pricing.
Regardless of money, in your case, given the fan controller is rather similar at your expected power load (200-240W DC, depending of OC, games, and so on), there should be a small difference between a Seasonic 650 Gold and a Seasonic 550 Gold, and probably an even smaller difference between a Seasonic 550W Gold and a Seasonic 450W Gold.
All in all they should "sound" rather similar at those above mentioned loads, but the 450W should ramp up more easily given the gaming load may be nearby the 50% of its rated power.
Would it still be preferable going for the larger ones, given the on average small difference? Well, it's up to your call whether the difference may worth the money: ideally something like a BeQuiet! Straight Power E10 400W should be a much quieter and much cheaper option for your needs, than a Seasonic 650W, but I didn't found similar units at MM-Vision.

Summarizing, if I were you probably I would look at either a Seasonic 550W unit (if I wanted to spare some money), or a SuperFlower Golden Silent 500W (at a slightly higher price than the Seasonic 650W Gold if a much quieter option is paramount).




Deer87 wrote:
I have looked at following alternative mITX cases:
Bitfenix prodigy
Fractal Design Node 304
Thermaltake Core V1

SPCR seems quite content with both Bitfenix and the Fractal DN 304, and i got the V1 recommended on tom's hardware.

If you want to go small and rather quiet, the Node 304 is among the smallest: but it deserves a short PSU, like a Corsair CS or a Cooler Master VS or GM.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:54 pm 
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Okay. Seems like i should hold my horses with the MM-vision mITX build.

Im beginning to wonder whether i should build a mATX in-sted. It seems like people here are okay pleased with the CM Silencio 352.

Could i equip it with a mITX an then, when i figure out what case to buy, change to a mITX case? Or would the negate the benefits of a bigger case?

Regarding the psu, what brand and model would you recommend?

Regarding Watercooling, i have very limited knowlegde about these. I have been told that they have a tendensy to hum, due to the pump. But you say they cool the CPU more efficiently in an enclosed space?

I Think i might sacrifice the extra 700 kr and get a motherboard that supports OCing, in the name of futureproofing.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


Last edited by Deer87 on Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:45 am 
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Deer87 wrote:
Okay. Seems like i shoppe hold my horses with the MmM-vision mITX build.

I think you should just define your budget: a quiet mITX rig is quite doable, but probably not for the same money of your originally proposed rig.

You can go with the Elite 130, but you need a quieter PSU than the proposed Seasonic 650 (like the Super Flower 500), either a relatively quiet AIO (something like a Silverstone Tundra TD03, NZXT Kraken X31, and so on), or an high performance low profile air cooler (which cannot be the small Scythe Shuriken, but something like a Cryorig C1) depending of the specific mobo, some new fans (depending of the other options) and so apparently a lot more money than your first proposal (not to mention that several parts are not available at MM Vision).

Or you can go with the Fractal 304, so that you will have more options for the CPU cooling but way less for the PSU (and a noticeably smaller overall footprint).


Deer87 wrote:
Or would the negate the benefits of a bigger case?

What fits a bigger case doesn't necessarily fit best a smaller shoebox (even thermally-wise): and the Silencio isn't well suited at running a 150-200W graphics (like your one: but it isn't necessarily a total drawback, as it can give more than a clue about how things will run in a more cramped mITX box).


Deer87 wrote:
Regarding the psu, what brand and model would you recommend?

It depends of the case of choice: broadly speaking, among the MM-Vision offerings, the Super Flower 500 is the one to go if money are not a concern, as it's probably the quietest PSU available in the whole market up to the 600W power level; unless you're going for the Node 304, I will pick it.


Deer87 wrote:
I have been told that they have a tendensy to hum, due to the pump. But you say they cool the CPU more efficiently in an enclosed space?

Well, the pump cannot be be suspended (check the recent SPCR articles), so there is not workaround but choosing the right AIO since start, while with reference to cooling prowess, they are just average at low airlows.
What it's probably more true is that when the clearance over the keep-out-zone (the socket area) is very limited (as it is in the Elite 130), they can be more effective than most of low profile air coolers.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:40 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Or you can go with the Fractal 304, so that you will have more options for the CPU cooling but way less for the PSU (and a noticeably smaller overall footprint).


Okay, that sounds reasonable. Just to be clear, I think i put the MM-vision part on hold for now.
If i choose the Fractal 304, i what ways does it limit the PSU? Is it unable to hold a full ATX PSU, or is it the cooling that is a limiting factor? And was the Fractal 304 unable to hold the Super Flower 500 (im not sure what you mean)? And what does Smaller footprint mean? :)

Hmm, as I understand it, i could go with the CM 130, but i should not get the build MM-vision proposes.
I would have to choose better CPU cooling (at best 120 mm water) and a more silent PSU (At best the Super Flower 500, which is about 33 % extra to the price of a PSU), which can be acceptable.
Also, I would prefer getting an OC Mobo and the i5-4690K, in order to future-proof my build a bit more (as well as underclocking if i want to)
Alternatively I should take a good look at building a system with Fractal 304

OR
Simply go for a mATX build, as cooling will be easier and i can get dampend cases.
In that build, i can choose either a mITX or mATX mobo, depending on me wanting to go for a mITX case in the future.
I should still consider another PSU than Seasonic, and i should also look into better cooling than Scythe Shuriken.

In any case, I should also choose a 5x00 rpm 2.5" HDD if I decide getting one, as they don't make as much noise.

I might cook up a table with the different options for your comments, when i get from work :) I really appriciate the feedback.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:19 am 
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Deer87 wrote:
Alternatively I should take a good look at building a system with Fractal 304
If you wanna get fresh info about all aspects involved in the build I'm composing (thanks to priceless help from quest_for_silence) inside a Fractal Design Node 304 you should take a look at this thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68391. Although my config differs a little from yours, probably you'll find some useful hints, even if you decide to take a different itx case!


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:51 am 
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Deer87 wrote:
If i choose the Fractal 304, i what ways does it limit the PSU? Is it unable to hold a full ATX PSU, or is it the cooling that is a limiting factor?

The Node 304 can use both SFX or ATX PSUs, but given the expected power draw it isn't advisable to use any SFX PSU, noise-wise: and as a matter of fact I was referring to ATX PSUs only, talking about the Node 304.

Being that PSU placed transversally right after the front panel, the limiting factor is the PSU length: with long (I guess more than 220mm) graphic cards, it can't fit PSUs much longer than the standard ATX one (140mm). So basically you're limited to a PSU long as much as 140-150mm, with the possible exception of some fixed cabling 160mm ones (like the BeQuiet E10 400W, or even the Seasonic S12G), but in that case it will be a really thought fit, if any, so if you're not comfortable building by yourself your own rig, it isn't likely advisable (even because, with a fixed cabling PSU, you have to route ALL the PSU's cables inside the enclosure).

Among the available PSUs, the most sensible options (given your power requirement) are currently the Corsair CS-550M, the Cooler Master V550S-M and the Cooler Master G550M.
They are rather quiet, but they cannot match the Super Flower 500 we talked about.


Deer87 wrote:
And was the Fractal 304 unable to hold the Super Flower 500 (im not sure what you mean)? And what does Smaller footprint mean? :)

No, that Super Flower PSU won't fit: it's 170mm long plus the modular cable connectors, so just too much to fit with your graphic card (which should be around 260mm long).
Smaller footprint means a lower occupied area/space (the Node should be 37cm deep x 25cm wide, while the Elite 40cm deep x 24cm wide, so slightly larger, and both will occupy a much lower space than any mATX tower like the Silencio 352).


Deer87 wrote:
Hmm, as I understand it, i could go with the CM 130, but i should not get the build MM-vision proposes.

I meant that you can opt for the Elite 130, making a different trade off than with the Node 304, but that you still can't have it built for you by them, as they don't offer all the suitable parts (mainly CPU, the case and the PSU): I've already listed some parts you may need.


Deer87 wrote:
Also, I would prefer getting an OC Mobo and the i5-4690K, in order to future-proof my build a bit more (as well as underclocking if i want to)

You don't need an OC mobo to underclock the CPU, but it may come in handy as it can stand much better the ambient heat, and it usually has a more refined UEFI to better control the fans.


Deer87 wrote:
Simply go for a mATX build, as cooling will be easier and i can get dampend cases.

Dampened cases are more a marketing gimnick than an effective solution: as a matter of fact to be really effective at absorbing noise the noise linen/damping should be several centimeters thick (check the SPCR hemi-anechoic chamber building process), and not just a few millimeters.


Deer87 wrote:
In that build, i can choose either a mITX or mATX mobo, depending on me wanting to go for a mITX case in the future.
I should still consider another PSU than Seasonic, and i should also look into better cooling than Scythe Shuriken.

Mostly correct: I would add that if you're building it by yourself, it should be much more easier (not "easy" tout court, but significantly easier than building inside the very cramped space either of a Node 304, or of an Elite 130).


Deer87 wrote:
In any case, I should also choose a 5x00 rpm 2.5" HDD if I decide getting one, as they don't make as much noise.

Up to 1Tb it may be true (for instance a WD10JFCX is among the quietest drives you can buy).
But if you need a 2TB drive (or larger), a 3.5" Western Digital Caviar Green would be likely quieter than any 2.5" counterpart.


Deer87 wrote:
I might cook up a table with the different options for your comments, when i get from work :) I really appriciate the feedback.

You're welcome.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:24 am 
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If I choose to stick with Air cooling, are these options any good?

Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212
Cooler Master Hyper 412S
Be Quiet Pure Rock Silent

Noctua NH-D14/15 (or is this one way too big for mITX?)

Or if i choose water:
Antec Kuhler H20 650/950 (SPCR was not impressed with the predecessor 620)
Intel Thermal Solution TS13X

Or should i look at other brands like Cosair or Arctic...

I think I leaning towards this build:

Case: CM 130 Elite (380 kr)
Mobo: ASUS Z97I-PLUS (1200 kr)
CPU: i5-4690k (2000 kr)
GPU: Asus GTX660 (already own)
RAM: Kingston 8GB DDR3-1866 HyperX FURY (580 kr)
SSD: Crucial 256 GB (800 kr) or Samsung 250 GB Evo (900 kr)
PSU: Super Flowe 500 (1000 kr)
Cooler: ???
HDD: ???

Roughly 6000 kr (806 €) + price for a cooler and an HDD

And i then have to figure out if i can get my windows 7 transfered (i have an installation cd for upgrade from vista)
Will i need a dedicated soundcard for this or is the integrated card okay?

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:28 am 
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Deer87 wrote:
If I choose to stick with Air cooling, are these options any good?

Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212
Cooler Master Hyper 412S
Be Quiet Pure Rock Silent

Noctua NH-D14/15 (or is this one way too big for mITX?)

You can't mount those coolers within a Cooler Master Elite 130, because there's the PSU over the CPU: you are limited to low profile air coolers (either a Scythe Big Shuriken 2 rev. B, or a Cryorig C-1 but probably with a different fan). Inside a Node 304 I'd look to some 120mm fan-equipped slim towers, like the Noctua NH-U12S or the Scythe Kotetsu; among the ones you quoted, I have both the 212 and 412S, the first one need a better fan, the latter should have a 3 pin fan (mine has it), so it may deserve a PWM fan (depending of the motherboard): probably, given their high quality fans, I would give a try to the Pure Rock, as I already adviced some posts ago (but again, it can fit the Node 304 only).


Deer87 wrote:
Or if i choose water:
Antec Kuhler H20 650/950 (SPCR was not impressed with the predecessor 620)
Intel Thermal Solution TS13X

I can't recommend any of those: the Intel is just a run of the mill specimen, neither really quiet nor particularly well performing, while I don't know the Antecs (however the Antec 950 cannot be mount inside the Elite 130).


Deer87 wrote:
Or should i look at other brands like Cosair or Arctic...

With reference to the Elite 130 enclosure, if they were available, personally I would stick with either the Tundra TD02 or the NZXT Kraken X31, as they were tested by SPCR and turned out as rather decent, noise-wise.


Deer87 wrote:
And i then have to figure out if i can get my windows 7 transfered (i have an installation cd for upgrade from vista)
Will i need a dedicated soundcard for this or is the integrated card okay?

For gaming and web streaming, the integrated one is probably more than enough, while, to transfer an existing OS without re-installing anything, you could use the Windows integrated utility sysprep to perform a so-called "generalized" OOBE (if that were what you meant: at any rate, google it for more information): in case, I think it's a not fully legal procedure, but it works well.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:37 pm 
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Posts: 25
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Deer87 wrote:
For gaming and web streaming, the integrated one is probably more than enough, while, to transfer an existing OS without re-installing anything, you could use the Windows integrated utility sysprep to perform a so-called "generalized" OOBE (if that were what you meant: at any rate, google it for more information): in case, I think it's a not fully legal procedure, but it works well.


Ahh, good to know. Thanks.

And just to be really annoying, i kinda changed my mind on choice of case, so now im looking at the Fractal Node 304 build again ;)

Case: Fractal Design Node 304 (630 kr)
Mobo: ASUS Z97I-PLUS (1200 kr)
CPU: i5-4690k (2000 kr)
GPU: ASUS GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5 (already own)
RAM: Kingston 8GB DDR3-1866 HyperX FURY (580 kr)
SSD: Crucial 256 GB (800 kr) or Samsung 250 GB Evo (900 kr)
PSU: Corsair CS550M(640 kr)
Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S (460 kr) or Be Quiet! Pure Rock (280 kr) or Scythe Kotetsu (280 kr)
HDD: Samsung SpinPoint M8 ST1000LM024 1 TB (470 kr) or WD Green WD20EZRX 2 TB (670 kr)

Price rangeing from 6600 kr to 7080 kr (885 € to 950 €)

Quest, you reccomended Be quiet, but do you know how it is, compared to the NH-U12S?

Also, i measured my GPU yesterday. Its the 22 cm version of the GTX 660, so i might have 4 cm extra to work with.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:59 am 
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Posts: 3904
Location: ITALY
Deer87 wrote:
Quest, you reccomended Be quiet, but do you know how it is, compared to the NH-U12S?

As maybe I was not clear, I don't know the Pure Rock.

I adviced for it in a first occasion because it was the cooler with the best (quiet) fan among the ones available at MM Vision.

Then I adviced for it another time but against the CM 212 EVO and 412S, because I know those CM coolers and their fans: given those CMs cooling prowess at low airflows is just sufficient, not a spectacular one, and given that Pure Rock sports surely a better fan than both (though for different reasons), I have no issue to recommend that Pure Rock against the quoted CM ones, even if I don't know it.

Now you are asking me whether I can recommend it against that Noctua, or not: sorry, I can't, because that Noctua, set aside it is a wonderfully machined cooler, it's a decent performing heatsink with a very good (quiet) fan, and probably it would fit more easily the Node 304

Image

So IMHO there is no evidence in favour of the Pure Rock (it may be either on par, or even better than the NH-U12S, but I just don't know that).

Summarizing, as an educated guess, I think the Pure Rock would be a solid option, a really quiet one. Will it be the best? I don't know, probably no. Does that matter, in case?

If you're looking for a similar, but less expensive option than the Noctua NH-U12S, in the same BeQuiet! lineup you may look for the Shadow Rock Slim cooler, as this one surely compare favourably against the Noctua NH-U12S (it's one of the best ones at SPCR, very close to the larger and better - than the NH-U12S - NH-U14S), as well as the already mentioned Scythe Kotetsu (usually among the cheapest, but it depends of local pricing), and maybe either the Phanteks PH-TC12DX (this one may be expensive, it strongly depends of local pricing), or the Thermalright True Spirit 120M (this latter NEED a new fan, as in my experience the stock one is disappointing, so that the overall cost might be higher than the Pure Rock's one).


Deer87 wrote:
Also, i measured my GPU yesterday. Its the 22 cm version of the GTX 660, so i might have 4 cm extra to work with.

Actually the ASUS GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5, you're talking about now, is a rather different card from the ASUS GTX660-DC2-2GD5 you mentioned before: therefore it's kind of obvious that your mileage may vary with reference to the PSU, and maybe even a 170mm PSU like the Super Flower Golden Silent 500, with its modular flat wires, could fit (as a matter of fact I'm expecting that most of the 160mm quiet ones, like either the BeQuiet! Straight Power E10 or the Enermax Platimax 500, will fit inside a Node 304 with that "PH" graphic card).

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with Coolermaster Elite 130
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Posts: 25
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
quest_for_silence wrote:
As maybe I was not clear, I don't know the Pure Rock.


My bad, sorry.
I haven't quite decided yet, but I guess im gonna pick either the Noctua NH-U12S or the Scuthe Kotetsu. But that I will leave until i actually buy the parts and start building.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Actually the ASUS GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5, you're talking about now, is a rather different card from the ASUS GTX660-DC2-2GD5 you mentioned before: therefore it's kind of obvious that your mileage may vary with reference to the PSU, and maybe even a 170mm PSU like the Super Flower Golden Silent 500, with its modular flat wires, could fit (as a matter of fact I'm expecting that most of the 160mm quiet ones, like either the BeQuiet! Straight Power E10 or the Enermax Platimax 500, will fit inside a Node 304 with that "PH" graphic card).


Okay, again - my bad, I was in doubt on the exact model, and I figured it was better to be conservative. I might still stick with a smaller PSU than the Super Flower 500, because it might become a limitation if/when I have to get a new GPU in the future.


I think I got all the information I need for now :)
Thank you so much for taking your time to help educate a newbie that kept changing his mind. I appreciate the help and the advice, and even though it led me far from the starting point, it was very useful and Im probably going to end up with a far superior product compared to my original idea.

I will give an update when I start building, at which point im probatly gonna ask a whole new bunch of questions. (it might take some time though, I have an apartment that needs painting and fixing first)

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:58 am
Posts: 25
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
New question.

Does anyone have experience with the XFX XTS 460W platinum fanless?
And are there risks connected with choosing fanless psu for such a small case?

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:35 am 
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Posts: 3904
Location: ITALY
Deer87 wrote:
Does anyone have experience with the XFX XTS 460W platinum fanless?

It's a re-badged Seasonic 460FL.


Deer87 wrote:
And are there risks connected with choosing fanless psu for such a small case?

Reliability-wise, no. Noise-wise, those units suffers of electronic noise (it may whine) more often than others.

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Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:36 pm 
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Posts: 25
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Okay, thanks.
It seems like the XFX, wouldn't be a bad choice then (i should've gotten it while it was on sale for 100 €), alternativly i can get my hands on a Seasonic X-650 gold for 120 €.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 1:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3904
Location: ITALY
Deer87 wrote:
It seems like the XFX, wouldn't be a bad choice then (i should've gotten it while it was on sale for 100 €), alternativly i can get my hands on a Seasonic X-650 gold for 120 €.

As maybe I've already said, I wouldn't prefer any of those Seasonics over the already mentioned Super Flower Golden Silent 500, but that's me.

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Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 2:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:58 am
Posts: 25
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
quest_for_silence wrote:
As maybe I've already said, I wouldn't prefer any of those Seasonics over the already mentioned Super Flower Golden Silent 500, but that's me.


Okay. I read a few reviews, seems like neither suffer extencively from the mentioned coil whine, and the Super Flower is not an option due to size. But I guess the price will also play a role when i get so far.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 7:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3904
Location: ITALY
Deer87 wrote:
the Super Flower is not an option due to size

Just for the record: there's no a fixed clearance with reference to the PSU, it depends of the GPU of choice.
So, the Golden Silent should fit when paired with a short (probably 22-23cm at most, maybe something less) graphics: said that, pick what you think best/safest for your needs (that SF is just my favourite among all the quoted PSUs, noise-wise, but that's all).

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:11 am 
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Hi Again.

So I finally got everything figured out and ordered the parts.

The final build:

Case: Fractal Design Node 304
Mobo: ASUS Z97I-PLUS
CPU: i5-4690k
GPU: ASUS GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5
RAM: Kingston 8GB DDR3-1866 HyperX FURY
SSD: Samsung 250 GB Evo
PSU: XFX XTS 460 Platinum Fanless
Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
HDD: WD Green 2 TB

I did the assembly this weekend, an ran into problems when i tried starting up the system.
After some hours frustration and a smaller nervous breakdown, a friend of mine identified the error to being a faulte RAM slot in the MOBO.
It work if i only use the B-slot, so now im doing a RMA.
I will post a picture log when it is done.

On the positive side, the system doesn't even purr like a kitten. With the case fans set to medium i had a hard time hearing anything sitting right next to it, with the case open.
There also are no audible coil whine from the PSU.
Please note, however, that it was only running BIOS startup and that I had not added the GPU at that time. But its a very good start. :mrgreen:

I will post a final update when i get a new Mobo and finish my build.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:58 am
Posts: 25
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
*Are we there yet?!?*
-Yes, son. We have arrived-

It has been done.

It took a seriously shaking hand, a more steadyhanded gf, a more tech adept friend and an extra week due to a faulty motherboard, but it is done.

Until I try it out with Rome TW 2 in ultra settings, i cannot give a full report on noise, but damn its quiet when ideling around in BIOS. There is a slight hum from the WD green 2TB HDD, or it might be the fan. In any case, it is quite acceptabel.
I would upload a picture, but I haven't figuret out how it works in this forum.

I will leave it with the following thoughts and conclusions:

- Building an mITX was ambitious and challenging for a newbie, but I learned a lot, and I regret nothing.

- A modular 16 cm long PSU is too long the FD node 304, if you want a GPU longer than your motherboard. I had to turn it around and fasten it to its frame with cable strips. It's a functional solution, but it takes time and frustration.


All in all, I am very happy with my new small, yet powerful pc.
Thank you all so much for input and advices.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:21 am 
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Deer87 wrote:
Thank you all so much for input and advices.

You're welcome, and enjoy your build! :wink:

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Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:39 am 
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Quote:
I would upload a picture, but I haven't figuret out how it works in this forum.


Below the text input area is a section called "Upload attachment". Hit the "Browse" button to look for the image in your file directory, select it, hit "open", hit the "add file" button, then submit when done.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:33 pm 
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Well, that does look delicious :)

Okay. Here it is ;)
Attachment:
20150624_1928112_resized.jpg


Attachment:
20150624_221422_resized.jpg


Attachment:
20150624_234554_resized.jpg


Attachment:
.facebook_1435299347170.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:25 pm 
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Posts: 3904
Location: ITALY
Deer87 wrote:
- A modular 16 cm long PSU is too long the FD node 304, if you want a GPU longer than your motherboard. I had to turn it around and fasten it to its frame with cable strips. It's a functional solution, but it takes time and frustration.

Now I "see" your words! :mrgreen: Why didn't you choose to screw in the XFX upside-down (with the perforated grille facing down)? To comply to the XFX adviced orientation?

BTW, thanks for the pics! :wink:

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on this mITX build with FD Node 304 -Edit: new
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:35 pm 
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It's fanless. They were pretty specific with the whole "grill must face up" part. Which also makes good sense to me, as the downside isn't perforated to the same degree, and I didn't want to turn my PSU into a mini hotbox.

I am actually quite content with my solution, allthough it could look prettier. But it turned out very sturdy, and i won't have to fear the PSU ramming my GPU if im carrying the pc somewhere.

When i said turn it around, i meant around its vertical axis, not upside down :)

_________________
It's not a bug - it's a feature!!!
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 >>> Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S
Mobo/CPU: Asus Z97i-PLUS / i5 4690k >>> PSU: XFX XTS 460 Fanless Platinum
GPU: Asus GTX660-DC2OCPH-2GD5


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