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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:26 am 
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Just checked some other mobos such as the Asus M4N78-EMH-HDMI (GF8200 chipset) and the same limitations apply. What loimlo said makes perfect sense, although I'm surprised that Intel hasn't taken advantage of the situation by offering something on their G45 that the others won't give you to boost their own sales...

As for BSD compatibility, I think I read somewhere a while back that AMD was releasing or going to release some open-source drivers for their vid cards for linux or something like that, so if that's the case, the company might be heading in a direction that is more friendly to non-MS users.

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HTPC: NSK2480,GB GF9400,E5200 w/ Minja,4GB RAM,WD GP 1.5TB,Nova DVB-S. Minja PSU fan,S-FlexEs case fans.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:04 am 
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Location: Denmark
@loimlo: Well, I have yet to actually buy anything. But the helpfulness around here is amazing, it's things like this that makes the Internet so great.

As for the video info, thank you for clarifying, I didn't know. Looks like I may have to look into getting a separate card (thanks for the suggestion), which will broaden my options for the mainboard. You see, my 'progress' is actually going back and forth a bit. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:36 pm
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Location: GA (US)
KlaymenDK wrote:
@Liacon: Thanks! Noted.

But ... tima notes that he "won't be using the Pioneer [215D] to rip any more CDs" due to ripping artifacts. I have made a habit of ripping all my cds (to flac, using Grip) and I'd hate to have artifacts in there. Any opinion/experience on that?
I went quiet by using a eSata enclosure for my Samsung S203N (fan disconnected). I turn the drive on when I need it, and leave it off when I don't.

That way, noise is less of an issue, since it will only be there when the drive is needed, and I can focus on features (like excellent DAE capabilities).


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:20 am
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Location: Denmark
[Updated 2008-09-11, Ati is out again :cry:]

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:20 am
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Location: Denmark
Finally, the parts are starting to settle down (see the first post in this thread).

Only a few questions remain:
:idea: Graphics:
As stated, the Asus has onboard graphics but it's most likely crummy (reviews are unclear on this point). I spotted the Inno3D Geforce 9600 GT Accelero S1M which comes stock with an Accelero S1. Nice.
* I haven't verified FreeBSD driver availability/performance yet.
* I haven't verified DVI-to-VGA conversion for each/both DVI output yet.
* I also worry about the power requirements (at idle) of this card. Apparently, I need at least a 450W PSU for this. Any idea whether it draws 15 or 150W at idle???
* Any other comments about this card?

:idea: Memory:
Is there anything very wrong with using some semi-random variety such as Kingston HyperX?
I really need to school myself on the whole memory timing thing :roll: and I feel a separate thread coming up about that when all the other things are in place.

FYI, so far the price tag is hovering somewhat higher than I'd like, which is why I'm keeping the cheaper Asus motherboard with onboard graphics as a possible replacement for the nice Gigabyte and passive GeForce card.

Also due to price, I've decided to get the cool-running E8400, which as a 3GHz dual core should be okay for now -- both motherboards would allow a quad-core to be dropped in later.[/img]

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:37 am
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KlaymenDK wrote:
Finally, the parts are starting to settle down (see the first post in this thread).

Only a few questions remain:
:idea: Graphics:
As stated, the Asus has onboard graphics but it's most likely crummy (reviews are unclear on this point). I spotted the Inno3D Geforce 9600 GT Accelero S1M which comes stock with an Accelero S1. Nice.
* I haven't verified FreeBSD driver availability/performance yet.
* I haven't verified DVI-to-VGA conversion for each/both DVI output yet.
* I also worry about the power requirements (at idle) of this card. Apparently, I need at least a 450W PSU for this. Any idea whether it draws 15 or 150W at idle???
* Any other comments about this card?

:idea: Memory:
Is there anything very wrong with using some semi-random variety such as Kingston HyperX?
I really need to school myself on the whole memory timing thing :roll: and I feel a separate thread coming up about that when all the other things are in place.

FYI, so far the price tag is hovering somewhat higher than I'd like, which is why I'm keeping the cheaper Asus motherboard with onboard graphics as a possible replacement for the nice Gigabyte and passive GeForce card.

Also due to price, I've decided to get the cool-running E8400, which as a 3GHz dual core should be okay for now -- both motherboards would allow a quad-core to be dropped in later.

I can't really help with your FreeBSD question. What is there to verify about the DVI->VGA conversion. I think it's safe to assume that both DVI ports will work with a VGA connection. The 450W PSU recommendation was created by graphics cards manufacturers to protect themselves. But you can easily and safely run a much smaller PSU. Look at X-Bit Labs's findings of power consumption. Note that these numbers are for the card only not the complete system. But I still wonder why you need such a powerful card. Wouldn't a passive 3450 suffice? (I hope this hasn't been discussed already :oops:)

Kingston is a very good brand, but tends not to have the best prices here in the US. If the price is good, you shouldn't have an issue. What are you unclear about regarding memory timings?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:42 am 
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Location: Denmark
Graphics
* FreeBSD driver availability/performance: I think this will be all right.
* DVI-to-VGA conversion: My "problem" is that right now, I have two nice LCD monitors with only VGA connectors. I've seen many notes and caveats that DVI outputs can't be connected to a VGA cable using a converter.
* Power requirements: It seems I am (was!) overly worried. 15 or 30W makes no difference to me; 150 would, but that's apparently not the case. I was just confused by the ambiguous graphs on various reviews.
* Other comments: But I still wonder why you need such a powerful card. Wouldn't a passive 3450 suffice? Well, by "3450" you mean an Ati Radeon, right? Sadly, Radeon+BSD = oil+water, so no good. But you're right, I don't need a powerful card. I would gladly buying an old card off of someone; in fact, I was considering using a GeForce4 Ti4200 I had lying around, but that's AGP which seems to be on its way out...
Regarding this particular card, it's nice to not have to mess with the heat sink swap myself.

Memory
* Price: Here, Kingston is no more expensive than other brands, so it will stay on my list.
* Memory timing: What are you unclear about? Um, everything? :roll: Basically, I have no understanding of the concept, so I am wondering if just grabbing any "generic" Kingston ram would yield considerably lower performance than a product with "optimal" settings, or if it's more a matter of style and overclocking-friendliness (which is uninteresting to me)?

Once again, thank you for a very helpful reply. If it wasn't for all you guys, I'd still be totally confused. I'm grateful, and I want to say that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:48 am 
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Location: Missing in Finnish wilderness, howling to moon with wolf brethren and walking with brother bears
Basicly memory timing offers little performance that you could actually see the difference with naked eye. In benchmarks you see drastic differences but it hardly effects your real life usage.

Since you're not die hard gamer nor die hard overclocker for this set-up generic kingston is very good, very safe and very, very compatible choice.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:50 am 
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Thanks, that means I can put all my memory worries to rest.

If the Inno3D Geforce 9600 GT Accelero S1M is too powerful, it's still a good price considering it includes the S1.
For comparison, I've looked at an EVGA e-GeForce 8800 GS (384Mb) which, as far as I can tell, is the only board that's really cheaper because all the others I'd need to buy an S1 separately anyway. This card is apparently rather quiet even with the stock cooler.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:21 am 
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Location: Formosa
nVIDIA 8400GS is your best bet, but I guess you've made up your mind already. Anyway, what power supply you want to purchase? It's a key factor to stability considering you'll get a 100~150W VGA in the near future.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:59 am 
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You guys don't stop posting responses quickly, do you? Thanks!

loimlo wrote:
nVIDIA 8400GS is your best bet, but I guess you've made up your mind already.

Far from it. I could go on until I'm banned! :wink: Really, I don't know what I'm talking about; I just read a bunch of reviews and change my mind a lot.
Care to elaborate on why the 8400GS is my best bet? I can see that it's a whole lot cheaper, so that's one point. However, all the ones I've just been looking at seem to be VGA+DVI rather than 2xDVI (still, at some point I should quit bitching and just buy something).

loimlo wrote:
Anyway, what power supply you want to purchase? It's a key factor to stability considering you'll get a 100~150W VGA in the near future.

The thread starter says a Corsair HX520, but I must admit that my shopping list says Enermax PRO82+ (EPR525AWT). So that's basically the size I'm going to get.

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Last edited by KlaymenDK on Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:16 am 
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Location: Missing in Finnish wilderness, howling to moon with wolf brethren and walking with brother bears
ig 9600GT feels too powerful, there is always option HD 4670 or HD 4650. First passive version should come very soon. But 9600GT with Accelero S1 is very, very good deal.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:25 pm 
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Location: Formosa
You need D-Sub rather than DVI, yes? You don't need 2 DVI-to-DSUB converters at the same time under this circumstance if you buy a 8400GS. Besides, you don't play game or run 3D modeling. 9600GT's muscle is a waste, and you are wasting electricity, 30W at idle, for nothing else.

Enermax Pro82+ is a very good product from my experience. But the 500W is too big for 9600GT, 400W is pretty enough.
Manufacturers usually send higher profit margin products to reviewers. It's just like commercials. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:41 am 
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Thanks for snapping me out of it, you're right of course: I should be content with just d-sub connectors; I was thinking too far ahead in an attempt at future-proofing.

Having looked around I've found a passively cooled Asus EN8400GS. It costs about 1/3 of the Inno3D and doesn't require an S1 cooler.

As for the PSU, I'll be running a bunch of hard drives too, and I understand it should run at about 50% load to run most efficiently. Also, and here goes the future-proofing again, I expect the PSU to have a longer life span than the video card, and I'll need the extra wattage if I get more disks, a faster CPU, or a better graphics card. Anyway, the 425W version is only very slightly cheaper. I think I'm sticking with this one.

Yay, my shopping list is green across the board. Whee. :D

Now I'm in the final stage: double-checking that all components actually fit together, fit into the case, and work with FreeBSD.

The price now is about DKK 6800; that's about USD 1300.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:34 pm
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Hi KlaymenDK

I've been following your thread but haven't really had any constructive to add since i know nothing about FreeBSD and the requirements for your build but i would like to add that unless you plan to add a very power hungry vid card in the future i suppose it's safe to expect that a smaller PSU will be sufficient for a while, i.e future-proof.
Hardrives don't suck too much power and since the hardware gets more and more efficient regarding power consumption, with the green wave and all, i would assume that your PC would rather use less power, as time goes by and you upgrade different parts, than the opposite.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:30 am 
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:!: Right -- I've now ordered all the parts!

Faster_Madman, I caved in an went for the 425W PSU after all. Happy now? :wink:

A few of the parts are currently out of stock, so will probably take at least two weeks for all the parts to arrive -- and then probably at least another one before I've had opportunity to put them all together. Eventually, I will let you know how it ends up.

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-- 010\001\111 --
This is my rig, and how I chose it (2008-12).


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 Post subject: KlaymenDK? How the build out going?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:45 pm 
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KlaymenDK?

You still on this tread, or do you have another active one going?

How is your build going? I'm in the process of figure some of the last for my build. I still trying to decide on CPU, Graphics Card, RAM, and I think I change my mind on the heat sink tonight from the Thermalright 120 Extreme to the XIGMATEK HDT-S1283, which looks similar and is almost 1/2 the cost, and comes with fan, but I would likely replace that.

Reid


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:02 pm 
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Oh I'm still here. :)
I'm just waiting for a few parts to arrive. Nothing important ... just the motherboard, memory, and cpu cooler! >_<

So far, it's a very silent system! Performance-wise, it's not so great, though. :cry:

I have looked at the Xigmatek, but somehow the non-smooth surface area against the die scares me.

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KlaymenDK
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:29 pm 
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How did you decided with dual over quad core? I'm building this system for Photoshop and image processing, and not gaming.

I've read that raw clock speed works best with photoshop, and am hoping to get and answer if the quad core rounds works better for other computer useage, and is therefore the better all around choice.

It's late here in California--time for sleep.

Reid


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:00 am 
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reidthaler wrote:
How did you decided with dual over quad core? I'm building this system for Photoshop and image processing, and not gaming.

I've read that raw clock speed works best with photoshop, and am hoping to get and answer if the quad core rounds works better for other computer useage, and is therefore the better all around choice.

Well, let's put it this way:
* raw clock speed helps any one application (or thread, more accurately)
* multiple cores helps running applications concurrently (again, actually threads)
So if you're only working in one app, whether or not multiple cores will do you any good depends on whether or not that app was written with multi-core support in mind. I don't know if that's the case for Photoshop.

For me, the deciding factor was power/heat and price; the dual-core spends less of each compared to the quad. And, a dual-core will still allow me to "dedicate" one core for software compilation (which is only single-threaded) and still have a core "left" for my foreground application(s). How well this will work will become apparent soon, I hope -- it will be my first multi-core system.

HTH

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:57 pm 
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*** Update: continued at Yeeet another here's-my-new-rig post. ***

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