silent PC instead of NAS

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:40 am

Hi,

I decided to open an account here and post my need for advice because I have a big dilemma. So this is my first post and excuse me if I didn't respected a rule unknowingly.

I plan since few weeks to buy a NAS in order to put all my content for streaming to my NetworkedMediaTank(NMT) aka Pop Corn Hour (model A-110) which is connected to my TV and Hi-Fi.

Before buying the NAS, I tested some major features of NMT with my PC playing the role of NAS. Well, everything is ok, I can share my folders (XP Pro) via SMB and NFS where the contents reside and connect from the NMT to these shares.
Then, in order to improve the look and feel of the interface where I browse my contents on the NMT, I installed a free UPnP server called MyiHome and also some movie and music jukeboxes on my PC.

Again, everything is working well. However, I wondered if I could install things on a NAS as easily as I can on a PC. After searching, I found some solutions but I realized I could never have anything as open as a PC where I could put the OS and every soft I want. (Probably most of you are here for the same reason: no single equipment can replace a PC on openness and flexibility).

Now I must say that I post my question here because obviously, my future NAS would be in my living room thus it must be quiet. Actually, the Synology DS409slim I plan to buy has a fan but it's silent if I trust the users'reviews. However, it'll not be easy to install what I want on that NAS to work with my NMT streamer (renderer in terms of UPnP protocol).

That's why I am here, to ask you if I can build my own NAS with the following criteria:
1/ Silent or not noisy
2/ be cool at all time
3/ has 4 slots for 2.5" SATA disks (with the only limitations due to actual disk capacities)
4/ maybe can run RAID in hardware (less important)
5/ able to play 1080p HD contents without problem with an HDMI port

The reason of point 5 is the following:
It is hard to find a good NAS being also a renderer i.e. having also graphical capacities and being able to connect to audio/video systems. There are some of this kind of NAS but reviews say they are noisy so not for me.
Well, I say to myself, either I buy a NAS and connect it via Ethernet to my renderer (i.e. Popcorn Hour/NMT), or I build myself the NAS as a PC and I include a graphical card just to play HD content (I'm not a gamer); in this way I no more need any other renderer. The Silent NAS/PC I built is self sufficient: it stores all contents and it plays them via its HDMI interface to my audio/video system.

So what do you think ? Should I buy the Synology NAS (with restriction of installable softs) or build myself a silent PC with the above criteria ? Is it possible ? are there good cases supporting 4x 2.5" HDD (5400rpm) and small enough at the same time ?

I need your advice
thanks in advance
nalooti

Trav1s · Post by **Trav1s** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:11 am

I guess I would ask this: Can you build and set up a PC for similar money than the NAS unit you are considering?

In my mind it is always better to have one tool that can serve multiple purposes than a bunch of specific tools. (A Leatherman or Swiss Army knife comes to mind) I would expect you to be able to build a cool, quiet and compact system with your desired specs based on ideas from this place. This crowd is quite resourceful and innovative.

Also, if you are comfortable with the way things are working and they serve your purpose then why change?

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:15 am

I could never be happy with 4 spinning hdd's in my living room, no matter how "silent" the case and fans are.
One reason many of us use NAS is to get the HDD noise out of the house and into the garage or closet.

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:38 am

xan_user wrote:I could never be happy with 4 spinning hdd's in my living room, no matter how "silent" the case and fans are.
One reason many of us use NAS is to get the HDD noise out of the house and into the garage or closet.

May I know why you'd not be happy giving the size and dimension of this DS409slim provided it is silent ?
If I had the possibility to put it in my garage or closet (ethernet wiring, having a garage, etc.) I wouldn't search for a silent NAS.

Now if you have 3/4 HDD how would you use them? piling them in your desk?

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:06 am

Trav1s wrote:I guess I would ask this: Can you build and set up a PC for similar money than the NAS unit you are considering?

In my mind it is always better to have one tool that can serve multiple purposes than a bunch of specific tools. (A Leatherman or Swiss Army knife comes to mind) I would expect you to be able to build a cool, quiet and compact system with your desired specs based on ideas from this place. This crowd is quite resourceful and innovative.

Also, if you are comfortable with the way things are working and they serve your purpose then why change?

Thanks for your answer.

I haven't yet estimated the price for building a PC similar to the NAS I'm considering (DS409slim Synology). But I'd say the price would be lower than that NAS for similar hard features and may be some plus: for example a motherboard integrating graphics and HDMI port, or added Wi-Fi 11n, etc.
I may also be ready to pay more to have something better, more powerful and as I said before, having the "play" capability i.e. HDMI and audio ports in which case I wouldn't need to buy a separate streamer/renderer like the Pop Corn Hour.

I didn't understand your statement on one tool rather than a bunch of specific tools! One general tool would be a PC that I'd build and the specific tools would be the NAS and Popcorn Hour ?
I'd be ok with your statement in some cases but not with others (e.g. I wouldn't buy an integrated CD player/AV amp/... for my HiFi system).

The problem is I didn't find any case with 4x 2.5" HDD slots (I don't care for a DVD burner). I already gave my main specs/criteria; I could give also the details. Will you help me find the components ?

I can't post a link here but please google Synology DS409slim and take a look at the NAS. Do you think I could find a similar case ?

You ask why change if I'm comfortable. But I'm not comfortable the way it is now. I share (for test purpose only) from my big desktop PC. Soon I'll replace it with a laptop. Then I have to put the 3 disks (containing contents) I have somewhere. This place whether a NAS or a small and quiet built living room PC will stream the contents.

I'd be a more comfortable with a NAS because My new laptop would not have to stream the contents, the NAS would.

But I'd be really comfortable with a machine equivalent to that NAS but being open so I can install the OS I want in it. In this way, I can install any soft compatible with that OS, for instance, I'd install XP Pro and MyiHome UPnP server and also some movie and music jukeboxes. Even if these softs have their equivalent binary on Linux (the OS of that NAS), the OS is so closed that I still may not be able to install them on it.

I hope things are more clear now.
thanks

Trav1s · Post by **Trav1s** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:44 am

Thanks for the clarification.

I my mind there is no questions. I would choose the PC over a NAS but that is rooted in my desire to build/modifiy/rebuild machines. Need more drive space? Add it. Want a different case? Swap the parts over. I see the NAS as more of a "plug in and go" addition with limited future upgrade options.

you wrote:

I didn't understand your statement on one tool rather than a bunch of specific tools! One general tool would be a PC that I'd build and the specific tools would be the NAS and Popcorn Hour ?
I'd be ok with your statement in some cases but not with others (e.g. I wouldn't buy an integrated CD player/AV amp/... for my HiFi system).

I do see the PC as a multipurpose tool and the NAS as a specific tool with limited applications. As for the integration of other functions into the PC I do not see a place for that and agree with you entirely.

You said:

You ask why change if I'm comfortable. But I'm not comfortable the way it is now. I share (for test purpose only) from my big desktop PC. Soon I'll replace it with a laptop. Then I have to put the 3 disks (containing contents) I have somewhere. This place whether a NAS or a small and quiet built living room PC will stream the contents.

Please forgive my misunderstanding from your post. I got the impression you were happy with functionality but not with the form of your present configuration. Sorry about that.

With any option you consider there will be "pros and cons" that need to be considered. These questions then come to mind:

Is cost an issue?
Space/size? (I know that is it)
Does it need to be upgradable?

Thanks for the clarification!

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:18 am

Trav1s wrote: Is cost an issue?
Space/size? (I know that is it)
Does it need to be upgradable?

Thanks for the clarification!

thanks for your time reading.

I'll come few days later if you give me time

with detailed specs.

In the meantime, regarding your questions:
1/ Cost is not really an issue even if I'd like to make it below 500 Euros (a bit more than $500). And the DS409slim already cost more than 400 Euros!

2/Space/size is really an issue as important as noise/silence. Please google DS409slim and take a look to see what I'm talking about regarding size at least.

3/ Have to be upgradable ? it depends on what and how difficult. If i chose a PC this is to be flexible regarding softs. Regarding hardware, who knows? I prefer it to be but I'm open to see a non-upgradable system. What would be the difference ? If it is price, I prefer to pay more now in order for it to be upgradable rather than to pay a lot later to change it completely.
If the difference is size, noise, min features (GigE, HDMI, USB, eSATA), I'll take the system giving me those min features.

thanks
nalooti

xan_user · Post by **xan_user** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:37 am

nalooti wrote:
xan_user wrote:I could never be happy with 4 spinning hdd's in my living room, no matter how "silent" the case and fans are.
One reason many of us use NAS is to get the HDD noise out of the house and into the garage or closet.
May I know why you'd not be happy giving the size and dimension of this DS409slim provided it is silent ?
If I had the possibility to put it in my garage or closet (ethernet wiring, having a garage, etc.) I wouldn't search for a silent NAS.

Now if you have 3/4 HDD how would you use them? piling them in your desk?

Sorry, maybe i misunderstood.
I thought you wanted 4 2.5" hdd's to go in a HTPC case in your living room? Thats too many spinning noise makers for my livingroom, no matter what case they are in.

Trav1s · Post by **Trav1s** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:28 pm

Images to add to the conversation

Inside:

Reading here:
http://hardwarebistro.com/index.php?opt ... ion-Review

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:01 pm

Now the simple questions are:

1/ is building an HTPC having this hard is possible ?

2/ is building an HTPC having these softwares/services (from the review) is possible (on an XP Pro) ?

althought 2/ may not be a problem, 1/ would be hard to build

I didn't find any similar case having room for 4x 2.5" disks.

Actually what I think I 'm looking for is a NAS + HTPC, a NAS for having lots of room for disks and HTPC for having all graphical/audio/video features which connect to the HiFi/TV systems
Is this possible small enough and silent ?

Some owners say the fan is most of the time off. I know that the cpu is not that much powerfull but it does what it has to do.

Trav1s · Post by **Trav1s** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:41 pm

I have been thinking more about your post and have a few more questions

Are you firm on using 2.5" drives?
There are large quiet 3.5" drives that would fit your needs. They are cheaper and larger...

If you are considering a HTPC, is there a case that you have in mind?

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:14 pm

Trav1s wrote:I have been thinking more about your post and have a few more questions

Are you firm on using 2.5" drives?
There are large quiet 3.5" drives that would fit your needs. They are cheaper and larger...

If you are considering a HTPC, is there a case that you have in mind?

For several reasons I am firm on using 2.5" drives:
- made for laptops => small, more reliable, more tolerant to shocks, less current consumption so cool operation => don't need a fan
- I know the price per GB is much higher than 3.5" drives and they have less capacities, however they have evolved recently much more than their 3.5" ones. I've heard Seagate has made even one with 1 TB but I'm gonna take a 500GB Hitatchi (5K500.B 2nd generation) for its very low consumption and very silent operation.

Already since few years, for storing my family photos/videos (in addition to DVD backups) I've chosen this type of drives for the reasons above plus the fact that as external drives and since they consume very little current, the don't need separate power supply. Now I see that the battle between drive manufacturers has been concentrated on these 2.5" disks.

Anyway, you see that heat, reliability and size on a drive destined to "store" contents are much more important for me than performance (relative to their 7200rpm 3.5" drives) and price. The price difference is even meaningless when my souvenirs are at stake.

Regarding the case, I must say I have NO experience and thus didn't chose anyone yet. I'm open to any suggestion: cube or long or anything as long as it is small and can evacuate heat easily with one big fan that would run only if necessary (with some kind of temperature monitoring) and since I'm for smaller drives I'll need more 2.5" slots than usual (why not 4!). I don't care for fancy things like LCD (just a led informing the operation state is enough).

I think the DS409slim doesn't get hot because of its processor which is not that powerful. So the big question is how much power I could add for another processor while keeping the consumption and therefore the heat low? Can I have a motherboard integrating basic graphics and HDMI output without significantly raising the heat?

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:51 pm

nalooti wrote:Can I have a motherboard integrating basic graphics and HDMI output without significantly raising the heat?

Compared to a NAS, the answer is no. The HTPC motherboard, even if you went with an Ion platform, will produce too much heat to go into such a tight case. Realistically, if you want 4 HDD in your HTPC (even 2.5") you will need to use a case that is around 4X the volume of that DS409slim. You will, however, also be saving the space that would have been taken up by the Popcorn Hour A-110, so the overall equation isn't that bad . . . You will also have to be creative in your HDD mounting. It is unlikely that a smaller HTPC case will have 4 HDD mounting points. Still, 2.5" drives are nice and light and fairly suitable to jury-rigged mountings.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:56 pm

Here's a little exercise I did in a hurry a while back. Prices may not apply to you, but it shows you what sort of stuff would be available. This was supposed to be a NAS that guests could use as a browsing PC too. Routing duties were considered but felt best left to dedicated routers.

Case is well-ventilated and dust-filtered (as long as you plug the side or introduce an extra filter), very suitable for low-airflow cooling in a closet somewhere, hooked up with ethernet.

Motherboard is probably old news by now, personally prefer Intel due to better experiences with their CPUs now in the C2D era (CURSE YOU SOCKET939!).

Memory was the cheapest name-brand stuff I could find. Separate NIC I wanted just for the reliability and management features, integrated NIC would serve as backup.

Drives you can choose to be whatever you want them to be. For streaming I would pick some nice and sturdy 3.5-inchers.

And that's about it, just my two cents. The project is certainly doable, and you will end up with a lot more options if you build a PC, but it will not be as plug-and-play as a purpose-built NAS box.

piglover · Post by **piglover** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:55 pm

I have a 4x2.5" hot swap backplane in my PC that fits in a standard 5.25" CD drive slot.
I've seen (at Frys) a 2x2.5" hot swap backplane that fits in a 3.5" external (floppy) slot.
It should not be impossible to fit 2x2.5" drives in the space of one "thin" CD drive, but I don't know if anybody actually makes that backplane or if you'd have to fab it yourself.

The one I have is here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817998037. I don't know who made the one I saw at Frys - I just remember picking up the box and telling myself that thing might come in handy some day - thinking about how to play with SSDs in my already overstuffed case.

It would be very, very simple to fit 4 2.5" drives into a very compact PC/NAS. It wouldn't be too difficult to make it 'living room quiet' even with for spindles, though you would have to work at it a bit.

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:57 am

piglover wrote: It would be very, very simple to fit 4 2.5" drives into a very compact PC/NAS. It wouldn't be too difficult to make it 'living room quiet' even with for spindles, though you would have to work at it a bit.

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

Could you please just give me some guidelines and indications for choosing the case, the processor and motherboard. I want it to have just enough power to run an XP just for sharing files and running few programs. I want the min power in order for the case to be small and to not heat so cooling will be easy (choosing 2.5" HDD is for cool operation mainly).
What about a laptop Intel processor ? one with very low power consumption?

thanks a lot
nalooti

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:48 am

For several reasons I am firm on using 2.5" drives:
- made for laptops => small, more reliable, more tolerant to shocks, less current consumption so cool operation => don't need a fan

I hate to disappoint you but while they are probably more shock-resistant, laptop drives are probably more fallible than 3.5" drives when run 24/7.

Also, the current capacity limit for 2.5" drives is 500gb. For 3.5" drives, it is 2tb. 4x 2.5" drives vs. 1x 3.5" drive. Which is quieter? If it's a samsung ecogreen, most likely the 3.5". Which is cheaper? No contest. Which is easier to deal with? One drive.

Regarding component selection, I'd choose....

Intel Atom dualcore mITX board
1 or 2 2tb Samsung Ecogreen F2 5400rpm -- one is easier to suspend w/ elastic cord
http://www.silentpcreview.com/apex-mi008 case

The case was simply modded with 120mm fan -- Larry got well under 20 dBA even at 1/2 meter distance! The chipset fan has to be turned down.

The hardware price will be way lower than you're thinking about: Maybe $300 in total w/ 2gb ram.

EDIT -- sorry, Samsung's biggest ecogreen drive is 1.5tb at the moment.

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:05 am

yeah i can attest that laptop drives are not more reliable. Even when in a desktop rig.

The fact is, it's easier to manufacture bigger drives. They can make them quieter, cheaper, and more reliable, because of increased ease of production.

This is one of the huge advantages to building a desktop rig. You can select components that don't need to have tiny form factors for thin laptop bodies.

I would rethink your hard storage ideas. In fact, I agree with everything mike suggested.

funklizard · Post by **funklizard** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:45 pm

MikeC wrote:Also, the current capacity limit for 2.5" drives is 500gb. For 3.5" drives, it is 2tb. 4x 2.5" drives vs. 1x 3.5" drive. Which is quieter? If it's a samsung ecogreen, most likely the 3.5". Which is cheaper? No contest. Which is easier to deal with? One drive.

...And whenever you add components, you increase your odds of a component failure.

(Well, technically this may not be the case in theory; that is, if you replace a single component with a sufficiently low MTBF with multiple components that have a sufficiently high MTBF, then you might actually come out ahead. In practice, this sort of circumstance strikes me as pretty unlikely.)

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:02 am

MikeC wrote:
For several reasons I am firm on using 2.5" drives:
- made for laptops => small, more reliable, more tolerant to shocks, less current consumption so cool operation => don't need a fan
I hate to disappoint you but while they are probably more shock-resistant, laptop drives are probably more fallible than 3.5" drives when run 24/7.

Also, the current capacity limit for 2.5" drives is 500gb. For 3.5" drives, it is 2tb. 4x 2.5" drives vs. 1x 3.5" drive. Which is quieter? If it's a samsung ecogreen, most likely the 3.5". Which is cheaper? No contest. Which is easier to deal with? One drive.

Regarding component selection, I'd choose....

Intel Atom dualcore mITX board
1 or 2 2tb Samsung Ecogreen F2 5400rpm -- one is easier to suspend w/ elastic cord
http://www.silentpcreview.com/apex-mi008 case

The case was simply modded with 120mm fan -- Larry got well under 20 dBA even at 1/2 meter distance! The chipset fan has to be turned down.

The hardware price will be way lower than you're thinking about: Maybe $300 in total w/ 2gb ram.

EDIT -- sorry, Samsung's biggest ecogreen drive is 1.5tb at the moment.

Thanks very much MikeC for your light!

I must recognize that you're right and I was wrong.

That is because I never though there would be 3.5" drives spinning at 5400 rpm! I'm gonna take a look at all those now and specially to see if there is any Hitatchi 3.5" 5400rpm drive.

I hope however you'll not tell me all 2.5" drives are non reliable!
Actually I have 3 of them as external USB drives. They are not constantly connected so they're hopefully OK ?
There is a big advantage having 5400rpm for external drives as they don't need additional power supply. Is this the case for 3.5" drives spinning at 5400rpm also?

again many thanks for bringing me an important idea: 5400rpm but with 3.5" HDD!

I'll study carefully your case/motherboard proposition, but it is possible that here in France I could not find that case. If I can't, I'll come back here to send you some links of what I have found and ask your advice.

thanks a lot
nalooti

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:04 am

nalooti, you're welcome.

There is a big advantage having 5400rpm for external drives as they don't need additional power supply. Is this the case for 3.5" drives spinning at 5400rpm also?

I agree that's a very nice advantage, I use them as various external drives for convenience. 3.5" drives cannopt be powered just by the USB 5V -- they need both 12V and 5V, so external power is mandatory if you use them as external drives.

My recommendation is very specific: Not a Hitachi but a Samsung EcoGreen. A WD Green Power (5400) is also acceptable, as is a 5900rpm Seagate Pipeline of Barracuda LP, but I'd choose the Samsung over the others. And suspend it.

It also sounds like you should at least scan through the main site. Specifically the Storage and Case and System sections.

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:13 am

MikeC wrote:nalooti, you're welcome.

There is a big advantage having 5400rpm for external drives as they don't need additional power supply. Is this the case for 3.5" drives spinning at 5400rpm also?
I agree that's a very nice advantage, I use them as various external drives for convenience. 3.5" drives cannopt be powered just by the USB 5V -- they need both 12V and 5V, so external power is mandatory if you use them as external drives.

My recommendation is very specific: Not a Hitachi but a Samsung EcoGreen. A WD Green Power (5400) is also acceptable, as is a 5900rpm Seagate Pipeline of Barracuda LP, but I'd choose the Samsung over the others. And suspend it.

It also sounds like you should at least scan through the main site.

Specifically the Storage and Case and System sections.

I'll read carefully those sections but as I told you unless the cases are made worldwide, I may not find them here in France. I don't think there would be any problem for motherboards.

Why don't you like Hitachi ? What is so special with Samsung ?

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:36 am

nalooti wrote:Why don't you like Hitachi ? What is so special with Samsung ?

Surely you know by now that SPCR does extremely detailed & accurate noise analysis of all kinds of PC components. When we recommend one thing over others, it's because our measurements and listening have identified it as quieter. What's special about the Samsung EcoDrives is that in general, they are the quietest 3.5" drives produced. The margin over the next quietest is not big but it is audible. So if you want the quietest...

nalooti · Post by **nalooti** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:39 am

MikeC wrote: I hate to disappoint you but while they are probably more shock-resistant, laptop drives are probably more fallible than 3.5" drives when run 24/7.

Also, the current capacity limit for 2.5" drives is 500gb. For 3.5" drives, it is 2tb. 4x 2.5" drives vs. 1x 3.5" drive. Which is quieter? If it's a samsung ecogreen, most likely the 3.5". Which is cheaper? No contest. Which is easier to deal with? One drive.

Hi Mike,
After discovering, thanks to your post , that there are 3.5 inch drives spinning at 5400rpm aimed at reducing power requirement and noise (my goals), Iâ€™ve reviewed the specs of Samsung Spinpoint F2EG, WD Caviar green and Hitachi 5K500.B. Before comparing power and noise characteristics, Iâ€™d like to know why you say that Â« laptop drives are probably more fallible than 3.5" drives when run 24/7 Â» ?
I agree that 1x3.5inch should be quieter than 4x2.5inch and consumes less power but this is a valid argument only if I need 2TB of capacity. More, I doubt the 4 disks will be spinning simultaneously at all time even in a 4xdisks config. Regarding the price, I never contested that 2.5 solution would be cheaper than 3.5 one. Iâ€™m paying premium to have reliability and silence !
I also heard comments on miniaturization. Where would you put the limit in this regard ? 3.5 disks are already a miniaturization of 5.4 ones. More, there are even 1 inch drives. The difference between 3.5 and 2.5 inch drives, I think, is more about platter density than anything mechanical (or less). Given the same density, you obviously have more capacity on a 3.5 disk. 2.5inch disks exist since a long time ; the battle now is to raise their capacity by playing on density and at the same time lowering power requirements.
Now, for comparison, I took only 500GB drives from these manufacturers as there is no 1TB drives spinning at 5400 rpm from Hitachi. Actually, I planned to buy the 5K500.B when I got your reply.

Hitachi : Power (W) : startup=4.5, seek=1.7, Idle=0.5 - Acoustics (B) : Idle=2.4, seek=2.6
Samsung : Power (W): startup=2A*5V=10, seek=4.8, Idle=3.9 - Acoustics (B) : Idle=2.2, seek=2.7
WD : Power (W) : startup=1.392A*12V=16.7, seek=5.4, Idle=2.5 - Acoustics(B) : Idle=2.4, seek=2.9
Unless Iâ€™m seeing the wrong numbers, the Hitachi wins in power and noise level (when seek).
Now , for a given speed (5400rpm), it looks natural that it takes more power to spin a larger platter.
One more think interesting for a drive running 24/7. Iâ€™ve read the Samsung is at 39Â°C when Idle after few hours ; The WD is even higher but as far as I remember the Hitachi doesnâ€™t get that hot. Reading the Idle power requirement of only 0.5W, that makes sens.
Mike, I still find interesting the idea of having 3.5inch disk spinning at 5400rpm (probably to have more capacity) but Iâ€™m really interested to have your answer on these numbers and also welcome to anyone wanting to comment them.
Thanks
nalooti

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:29 am

Here's my commentary, as these are basic questions covered over and over again.

When it comes to numbers, be it speed or sound, manufacturers may put anything they like on their websites, and their tests differ from eachother. In fact, some tests don't really qualify for any sort of meaningful data, like many fan CFM/noise ratings. The temperature readings people get for drives vary wildly as well: one person may have more drives or less airflow, and it will reflect on the temperatures their drives reach. They may even fail to measure the drives in similar operating conditions.

The only numbers one should trust for comparison - and are indeed comparable at all - come from methodically sound tests that are performed in identical fashion on all subjects in question. SPCR, MikeC definitely included, are a trusted authority in doing just that.

Speaking of numbers, less really is more when it comes to reliability. The less active components a system has, the less likely it is for any one of them to fail - every component may still have the same individual failure rate, but at least the accidents waiting to happen are fewer in number. Not to mention it's a better idea aiflow and cooling-wise to have less HDDs heating up and blocking the air.

The claim for laptop HDDs being less suited for active and prolonged use comes from many factors, but suffice to say that they have been designed for specific kinds of use and environment. To generalise, laptop drives need to fit in a tight spot, survive motion and work on limited power - this means a lot of compromises. The main difference of interest is that the laptop drive is constantly on guard rather than on duty, and its operating parameters reflect that: there is more constant head parking, locking and unlocking (not to mention probably error checks) compared to desktop HDDs that are not made for use on the road. Laptop drives may be mechanically identical, if smaller in scale, but they behave in quite a different fashion from their bigger 3.5" cousins. All that extra work their firmware makes them do will reflect poorly on them in the long run - it's extra stress, like if the drives were used a lot more than they actually were. Server and RAID edition drives have quite different firmware that keeps them at the ready and enables them to predict use - rather than possible hazardous drops - more efficiently.

I am not saying that a NAS built solely out of laptop drives is a completely bad idea, but I, too, am of the opinion that it may not be the best, or even second-best. I am not an expert on harddrives, but have been building my own stuff and have paid great attention what experts on sites such as SPCR have had to say.

Edit1: Typos.
Edit2: Added Edit1 and Edit2.

Post by **MikeC** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:09 am

nalooti --

Das_Saunamies's elegant post covers pretty much everything I might have said:

1) There are many authoritative sources which suggest laptop drives are not as reliable as desktop drives when run 24/7. This is probably especially true with the new lower speed (5400, 5900rpm) HDDs designed for media streaming in HTPC or NAS.

2) I've personally tested many dozens of HDDs for acoustics over a period of nearly 10 years. Among them, 4 different samples of the 500GB Samsung F2 ecoGreen HDD have been the quietest 3.5" drives. This is w/o a doubt. (Two samples were lent to me for review, after which I bought two for use in the lab, both of which were exactly the same acoustically as the first 2.) These drives are actually quieter than most 2.5" drives, and have so little vibration that you might be able to get away with not suspending them. Read the review! http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silent_Sa ... en_HD502HI

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:06 am

There are only two reasons I'd consider a laptop drive, if I had space to fit something bigger:

1) I wanted a case setup that will have virtually no airflow. Shock resistant properties are not all that exciting in a server, but the ability to function well with no airflow (as laptop drives do, inside laptops) might be . . .

2) I wanted to run the system off of battery power. This situation is really only applicable if a single laptop drive would provide sufficient storage, which is often not the case.

silent PC instead of NAS

silent PC instead of NAS

Thanks for the contibution