Starting from scratch - new i5 build, opinions please

[Kerosene]

I'm about to build a new system, but I'm so far out of the loop I don't even know where to begin.
I almost bought myself a prebuilt system (just to get it over and done with), but I've come to my senses and have decided to do the build myself.

I'll be buying it from PC Case Gear, so if you've got any suggestions for alternative parts, it would be a huge bonus if it's something they sell.
http://www.pccasegear.com/

Budget: $1000ish (Australian)
Use: Coding, occassional Photoshop/InDesign/After Effects. No gaming, no 3D.
Where I've listed alternatives, my preference is in bold.
--------------------------
Case: Fractal Design Define R3 $149 or Antec P183 $155
CPU: Intel Core i5 760 $219
HSF: Scythe Mugen 2 Cooler Rev B $75 or CoolerMaster Hyper 212+ $39 (+replacement fan?)
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3 $145
PSU: CoolerMaster Silent Pro M600 $129, Seasonic X-650 $199, Antec CP-850 $155
GPU: HIS ATI Radeon HD5450 Silence 1GB $69
RAM: Corsair CMV4GX3M2A1333C9 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 $79
HDD1: Western Digital Green 1TB WD10EARS $69
Total $934
--------------------------
Pulled from current system:
HDD2: Seagate ST3500320AS Barracuda 7200.11 SATA (will be spun down most of the time, used for end of day backups)
AUDIO: M-Audio Delta-66 PCI

[JamieG]

Does any of your coding software benefit from a quad core - compiling speeds etc? If a dual core would do, there are cheaper i3 Intel CPU's available.

A cost saving option could be a i3 530 + Gigabyte H55 mATX board. With the cost savings, you could fit a 60Gb SSD like the OCZ Vertex 2 ($155@PCCG) into your budget.

I'm not sure if the integrated graphics in a Clarksdale i3 would be sufficient for the other photoshop etc uses you mentioned though.

Anyway, something for you to consider.

Other than that, your parts choices look pretty solid from a value point of view. You don't need a 600W power supply, but the 700W version of this PSU got a decent enough review here at SPCR, so it should be quiet enough at low loads.

[Kerosene]

Does any of your coding software benefit from a quad core - compiling speeds etc?

Nope.
But After Effects and Photoshop will, and quad core will speed up video encoding times.
Here's some numbers : http://www.anandtech.com/show/2901/8

You don't need a 600W power supply...

I know I could probably get away with a 400-500W, but I might add an extra drive in the future.
And the range of 400-500W PSUs at PCCG is a bit limited.

Should I consider going for 8GB RAM instead of 4GB?
And if so, is there any benefit in a particular configuration (2x4GB, 4x2GB, etc)?
How about this Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3?

[CA_Steve]

PSU: Your system will draw ~150W or less. Too bad your supply house is so limited...

quad core: yep. great for photo/video editing.

gpu: I'm not up to date on the ATI vs NVidia benefits for gpu acceleration in Adobe products. For a while, NVidia was better. Don't think you need much horsepower to get the OpenGL acceleration features working. Here's a couple of useful Adobe links.
OpenGL features
GPU and OpenGL support

RAM: If your photoshop/afteraffect use was often and not occasional, then 8GB is better than 4GB. However, the choke point in your system will be the 5400 rpm HDD if you push much data. 2 vs 4 sticks - some cpu heatsinks will loom over the ram slots and block the first two slots. Some may loom over and only block the RAM if the RAM has heatspreaders.

HDD: If your system will spend a lot of time thrashing data, then you might consider getting a 60GB+ SSD for the OS/apps/scratch files and use the green drive for data storage only. If you do a lot of photo/video editing, then you definately need a faster drive...and really want multiple drives. Getting just two or three spinning drives to split the apps/scratch/data functions will speed things up.

Case: you could save a few $'s by going with the Antec Solo. Good for a quiet build.

[ilovejedd]

8GB, I think, is a good idea, depending on price. On Amazon (US), Kingston ValueRAM 2x4GB DDR3 1333 CL9 costs less than $130 now. If prices drop in your area to around that much, I think it's a good investment. Most motherboards support 16GB RAM nowadays (4x4GB) so keeping the other two slots vacant means you'll be able to upgrade to max capacity in the future without throwing away the RAM you buy now.

[Kerosene]

HDD: I'm not ready to go with SSD just yet. I probably will in the future though.
Is there a better HDD choice from this page? They've got several 1TB 7200 drives, but I'm not sure which ones are considered 'quiet'.
I'd consider 2 x 500GB drives, as long as it didn't double the noise. Which I guess is impossible.

PSU: Is there something more suitable for my build on this page? Other than money, what will I gain/save from having a lower power PSU?

RAM: The Corsair RAM that I listed previously is AUD$179 for 2 x 4GB sticks.

[lodestar]

As you plan to do no gaming or 3D, and will only have a low power graphics card I would have thought that the Seasonic X-400/X-460 fanless PSUs would be worth considering. They are Gold PSUs so will be extremely energy efficient. This comes at a cost admittedly, but you do get 5 year warranty and it is one less source of noise.

[Kerosene]

I've just read the SPCR review of the Seasonic X-400. The 5 year warranty is a big plus. I think I'm sold on the idea.

Will the X-400 be able to handle a higher spec GPU (e.g 5750/5750 - passive of course) if I decide to upgrade in the future?
Or should I be safe and go for the X-460? It's only $20 more.

EDIT: I ran a future scenario shopping list (3 HDDs and a Radeon 5770) through this PSU calculator and got a recommended PSU wattage of 354W. So I assume the X-400 will do me for now, and for some time in the future.

Still not sure as to which HDD to go with.
There seems to be an equal amount of good and bad reviews (sound wise) for just about every HDD I search for.

[lodestar]

The PSU calculators are probably assuming gaming use, so their figures will be inflated by at least 150w. The X-400 will be fine, but if you want a bit more capacity just in case then certainly from your proposed Australian supplier the X-460 is extremely well priced.

[Das_Saunamies]

Here's an interesting read about 4 GB vs 8 GB vs SSD as update options: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storag ... s-8gb.html

[Kerosene]

Here's an interesting read about 4 GB vs 8 GB vs SSD as update options...

Interesting reading indeed... BUT I'm not ready to go SSD just yet. Or at least my budget isn't ready.
I think my money would be better spent on the extra 4GB RAM for now. I tend to hang onto computers for a LONG TIME (I've still got a working Atari STe!), and I know from experience that the longer you postpone buying RAM, the more expensive it gets - meanwhile drives just get better and cheaper. If I decide to go SSD (which I inevitably will), I'll get a much better deal in 12 months than I will now. I can wait.

I've decided to go with a fanless PSU (either the X-400 or more likely the X-460).

All that's left is to chose a quiet 1TB (7200) drive from here.

[Das_Saunamies]

Only time I've had RAM become more expensive is when there's been a generation shift or production stoppages in Asia. Other times it's been the same price for the longest time or undervalued due to surplus supply. Still, whatever the situation when you're buying, RAM will definitely be the cheaper option - it's just a shame so many applications fail to make use of it past a certain point.

[Kerosene]

Only time I've had RAM become more expensive is when there's been a generation shift ...

I tend to hang onto computers for a LONG TIME

I recently bought a 16K RAM expansion for a VIC-20. Don't get me started.

[lodestar]

All that's left is to chose a quiet 1TB (7200) drive from here.

The Western Digital Green 1TB WD10EARS at $69 would be my choice and would fit in with the quiet/energy efficient theme of the build.

[Kerosene]

Yeah it was my first choice too, until CA_Steve pointed out that it was only 5400rpm - something that I'd stupidly missed.
I was also interested in the Seagate ST31000528AS, until I read this (old) thread on SPCR.

How about the Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB HD103SJ at $69?

The HDD is the last piece in the puzzle.

[lodestar]

Yeah it was my first choice too, until CA_Steve pointed out that it was only 5400rpm - something that I'd stupidly missed.

True, but it also has a 64Mb cache rather than the 32Mb of the 7200 alternatives. So in practice I'm not convinced you would see any significant performance difference between this and a 7200 drive.

[Kerosene]

I knew that starting a thread on SPCR would bring up more questions than it answered.

So am I stuck between the 5400 Western Digital WD10EARS and the 7200 Samsung SpinPoint F3 HD103SJ?
Both are the same price.

I've got a nagging bee in my bonnet about Western Digital. The only drive that I've ever had fail on me was a WD, back in the late 90s. If anyone can push me towards the Samsung F3, or even a Seagate, now is the time.

[lodestar]

OK, go for the Spinpoint F3. I assume you're going to put some backup plan in place, and as long as you have then buy a Samsung. I appreciate it's hard to buy a brand of hard drive when you've had one go 'clunk' on you. I've had only one do that so far. What make was it.... Erhhh..... Samsung.

[Kerosene]

Yep. Daily backups kept at home, weekly backups kept offsite. I've got backups of backups of backups

I can't find much info regarding the Spinpoint F3. There are only a few hit and miss mentions of it on SPCR.
I'm pressing the button on this order tomorrow. Would really like some input from anyone with an F3.

[HFat]

What do you want to know about F3s? They're hard drives. The 5400 version has been reviewed on SPCR if memory serves. I've got 5400 and 7200 single-platter F3s but I haven't comparing them, using the in a demanding manner or anything like that. Surely you'll find a lot of reviews and reports about them with a bit of Google-fu.

edit: you're buying (very) expensive components but you want to avoid SSDs? You're afraid you won't be able to force yourself to buy cheap ones instead of splurging for a ridiculously expensive model? JamieG above has it in one.

[lodestar]

I can't find much info regarding the Spinpoint F3.

This is probably one of the more useful reviews http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd- ... ,2554.html since it covers both the Spinpoint F3 and the WD drive.

I was somewhat swung towards the WD drive by the SPCR comments on the 2Tb version http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silent_Ho ... st_Results.

[Kerosene]

you're buying (very) expensive components but you want to avoid SSDs? You're afraid you won't be able to force yourself to buy cheap ones instead of splurging for a ridiculously expensive model? JamieG above has it in one.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
I'm not avoiding SSDs. I'm just not going to buy one in the next 24 hours. My budget is apx $1000, and I'm trying to make the best of it, for now, and for the long run. Other than the case and PSU, most of the components are at the low budget end of the scale.

@ lodestar, thanks for the link. Going to read it now.

[HFat]

Here's what I'm talking about:

A cost saving option could be a i3 530 + Gigabyte H55 mATX board. With the cost savings, you could fit a 60Gb SSD like the OCZ Vertex 2 ($155@PCCG) into your budget.

You could easily get a computer with a SSD for half your budget.

[Kerosene]

You could easily get a computer with a SSD for half your budget.

But I don't want a computer with an SSD. And I don't want an i3.
I think I'm starting to repeat myself.

Thanks again lodestar, that's a good article.
I'll be able to come to my own conclusions from here on in.

[CA_Steve]

The X-bit Labs article was a nice find. It looks like SSD is faster for many things, but not so much for Photoshop vs having 8GB of RAM (in a single drive configuration, anyway).


Here's a Tom's Hardware benchmark for HDD's and video editing.

The Tech Report's review of the Samsung F3 1TB HDD. No 5400rpm comparisions in it, but you can get a feel for it's performance.

[bonestonne]

What kind of use is that Delta 66 going to see?

I might suggest the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2, simply because it's been confirmed working with Delta series M-Audio cards. I don't have any mention of the P55A-UD3.

Depending on the action that the card sees, you may need to adjust your computers BIOS to cater to the new drivers, but you also have to worry about how that affects heat production as well as power usage.

If you aren't doing lots of DAW work, I might not continue using the Delta series because of driver issues currently (they're under revision with no ETA as of yet).

[Kerosene]

What kind of use is that Delta 66 going to see?

Not a lot. It was my main card in an old DAW, but it's now just running into my home hifi.
If it doesn't work, I can live without it.

I might suggest the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2, simply because it's been confirmed working with Delta series M-Audio cards. I don't have any mention of the P55A-UD3.

Both motherboards seem to be identical, except for the size, and that the UD2 has eSATA, and the UD3 has a few more PCI slots.

--------------

I think I've made up my mind on most of the hardware now.

- Fractal Design Define R3
- Intel Core i5 760
- Scythe Mugen 2 Cooler Rev B
- Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3 (I'll roll the dice on any Delta 66 problems)
- Seasonic X-460 Fanless Gold 460W
- HIS ATI Radeon HD5450 Silence 1GB
- 8GB Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 (2x4GB) DDR3
- 7200 Samsung SpinPoint F3 1GB
+ In the very near future (like 1-2 months) - OCZ Vertex 2 60GB E Series SSD
All up, around $1250

It's more than I was planning on spending, but that includes an SSD, an extra 4GB RAM, and the X-460 PSU that I wasn't originally budgeting for.

Time to press the button?

[Das_Saunamies]

- Fractal Design Define R3
- Intel Core i5 760
- Scythe Mugen 2 Cooler Rev B
- Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3 (I'll roll the dice on any Delta 66 problems)
- Seasonic X-460 Fanless Gold 460W
- HIS ATI Radeon HD5450 Silence 1GB
- 8GB Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 (2x4GB) DDR3
- 7200 Samsung SpinPoint F3 1GB
+ In the very near future (like 1-2 months) - OCZ Vertex 2 60GB E Series SSD
All up, around $1250

It's more than I was planning on spending, but that includes an SSD, an extra 4GB RAM, and the X-460 PSU that I wasn't originally budgeting for.

Time to press the button?

Can vouch for the CPU, definitely like the SSD, it's probably worth the trouble of reinstalling the OS - get to see the difference in action! Memory is not on the MB maker QVL, so I'd double-check with internet sources to see if there are such combinations out there working, or if they can point you to qualified alternatives. The QVL is awfully short in general, no 8GB sets.

I would get CL7. It can't be much more money, and you'll get a nice boost and chip quality upgrade to boot.

The rest... they're okay, I'm sure you have your reasons. (i.e. no objections/opinions/experience)

Once you clear the RAM, it looks like a done deal, congrats!

[millex]

kerosene, sorry for asking, but why did you choose the Fractal Design Define R3 case for silent musician build?
it has not enough 5,25" slots for rubber hanging of your 3,5" HDD(´s).
Otherwise - nice build.

[Kerosene]

@ millex. This isn't a DAW build, it's just for my day to day home desktop use.
I won't be suspending the 3.5" drives, they'll just go in the 3.5" bays.