PSU (?) noise problem

[Green Olive]

Hi, my first post here. I'm looking for help with an intermittent noise that seems to be coming from the PSU (Nexus NX-5000), or maybe from nearby on the notherboard (hard to tell which since the CPU cooler gets in the way). I tried removing the graphics card, but the noise was still there so it can't be that.

It's quite a quiet noise, which I've only noticed recently after replacing the hard drive with an SSD. There's a sound recording of it here (273KB mp3). Apologies for the poor audio quality - ignore the loud scratchy noises and the background hiss, it's the one that sounds a bit like Morse code. You'll probably need to turn the volume up quite high to hear it.

I don't think it's directly related to CPU load, but it's worse with certain applications. E.g. Wimpy FLV player is reliably bad, even when it's not doing anything. It also comes on with keypresses and mouse wheel scrolling i.e. 1 'beep' for each keypress or wheel notch, or a continuous noise if I hold a key down. You can hear this at about 00:16-00:25 in the sound file.

Does anyone have any suggestions about what might be causing the noise, and how to go about stopping it?

Thanks,

Green Olive

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA785GT-UD3H
RAM: Kingston ValueRAM 4GB
Graphics card: Gigabyte Radeon X300SE
Case: Antec P150
Power supply: Nexus NX-5000 R3
CPU cooler: Scythe Mugen 2
Hard drive: Intel SSD 320 120GB
Optical drive: Lite-On DVD RW
OS: Windows 7 64 bit

[Arbutus]

I'm guessing . . . . . . your noise is physical vibration in the power supply.

[Green Olive]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check that but I think it's something more electrical (It's not the loud noises on the sound recording). It's clearly connected with use - there's a distinct pulse of sound each time I move the mouse wheel a notch, for instance, or press keys on the keyboard.

[kuzzia]

If it sounds a bit high-pitched, then maybe the noise comes from the SSD! I have the same problem with a laptop + SSD. Try to remove the SSD from the case and see if the noise disappears. If it is because of the SSD, then try to disable the C1E setting in the BIOS.

Here are some links:
http://www.overclock.net/ssd/992303-ssd ... whine.html
viewtopic.php?t=56007

[Arbutus]

This list has some of the most common noise makers in a computer system:

=> fans
=> disk drive
=> audio system
=> CRT monitor
=> LCD monitor
=> GPU core voltage power supply on the Video adapter card
=> CPU core voltage power supply on the mainboard
=> main power supply

Some are less obvious than the others and will become audible as we eliminate and quieten fans in the quest for a silent PC.

[MikeC]

Use a rolled up magazine or similar tube at your ear to try and identify the noise source. My guess is some caps or coils in the PSU or on the mobo (usually the VRM components around the CPU)... or the SSD as someone already pointed out. It is very hard to eliminate entirely. Power states affect the noise, as you found, and that might be where the solution is -- run the system at slightly higher load constantly (maybe even with a 5~10W resistor added specifically for this purpose) and this might reduce the noise.

[Arbutus]

...run the system...with a 5~10W resistor added...and this might reduce the noise.

Great advice MikeC. During my career as a bench repair technician I've seen a lot of switching power supplies complain at low power draw and then quieten down at around 20% load.

[Green Olive]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions on this. The noise is definitely coming from the PSU, not the SSD or the motherboard (the rolled-up newspaper confirmed this).

I tried disabling C1E and AMD's Cool 'n Quiet, but neither made much difference. I also found something referring to Load-Line Calibration (not quite sure what this is) on Gigabyte motherboards as affecting high pitched noise, but I don't seem to have this option in my BIOS (this was the link: Gigabyte X58A-UD3R high pitched noise).

The noise is mainly associated with certain programs. For instance, Wimpy FLV player, Applian FLV player and ReNamer all trigger the noise - constant high pitch whine all the time they're open, whether they're doing anything or not, which stops as soon as I close them. I can significantly reduce but not eliminate the noise (while one of these is open) by running a CPU intensive program such as previewing RAW photos in Adobe Camera Raw, or running a DNA analysis program in MEGA (=25% CPU use). Does that shed any light on the cause of the problem?

Use a rolled up magazine or similar tube at your ear to try and identify the noise source. My guess is some caps or coils in the PSU or on the mobo (usually the VRM components around the CPU)... or the SSD as someone already pointed out. It is very hard to eliminate entirely. Power states affect the noise, as you found, and that might be where the solution is -- run the system at slightly higher load constantly (maybe even with a 5~10W resistor added specifically for this purpose) and this might reduce the noise.

Sounds like a good idea. I assume you mean something like this: link. Which would be the correct cable to attach it to?

Green Olive

[Arbutus]

It sounds like the PS acts funky when the CPU and/or GPU loads the 12V supply line.

spcr is a great resource for help in choosing a new PS.

[MikeC]

Before buying any resistors, just try running Prime95 & listen. If the whining continues -- and it sounds like it will, one way or another -- then it might be time to invest in a new PSU. Some designs just seem more susceptable.

This was much less of an issue back in the day when most PSUs had noisy fans. Now that the masking effect of the fans is so much reduced, tonal sounds like these have become plainly audible, and they are often just as annoying as the masking sounds that made them inaudible (or ignorable) before. There is no simple solution, unfortunately.

I've had conversations with electronics engineers who say the whine/buzz in PSUs is related to poor circuit design and/or parts that allows resonance/ringing. But even v. high quality PSUs (like X series Seasonics and similar) have exhibited some whining in some conditions, so it may be a common side effect as mfgs push efficiency to the limit. (ie, circuit optimized for efficiency w/ less regard for electronic resonances, perhaps). In general, it seems almost impossible for a PSU (especially a switch mode design) not to exhibit some whine -- get close enough and listen hard enough and you can hear some kind of noise from just about every electronic power circuit.

[Green Olive]

Before buying any resistors, just try running Prime95 & listen. If the whining continues -- and it sounds like it will, one way or another -- then it might be time to invest in a new PSU.

Thanks for that information, very useful. Running Prime95 seems to completely stop the noise while it's running. As soon as I stop it, the noise returns (if the offending applications are open). The system gets louder with Prime95 since the fans rev up, but the electronic noise stops (actually stops, not just masked by the fan noise).

Another thing that induces the noise is running Flash video content in Firefox/Internet Explorer ('normal' pages are generally OK). It continues even if I navigate away from the Flash containing site, only stopping once the browser is closed/restarted.

[MikeC]

OK, P95 is a high load on the CPU, which gets its power mostly from the 12V line. This suggests that the whine happens when...

1) the 12V load is low
2) there is some load on 5V and 3.3V lines.

Just try adding some component that draws a bit more power from the 12V line -- an old HDD or 2 will do. Each will pull only 4-6W on the 12V line, but it might be enough. See if that gets rid of the whine.

[Green Olive]

I tried hooking up 3 regular HDs, but to be honest it was difficult to tell whether the noise in question had improved over the background drive noise. It was definitely still present though.

The thing that puzzles me is why the noise should only appear at certain times. E.g. why should flash content in Firexfox bring it on, but not ordinary text content?

[Arbutus]

The audible harmonic vibrations of the electromechanical components of the power supply is caused by the periodic bursts of electrical current consumption of building the video frames with software loops.

[Green Olive]

The puzzling thing is, though, that it's not just when videos are actually playing - once it starts, persists even for as long as the browser is open even if I close the page which triggers it initially. And the ReNamer application I mentioned above appears to be very simple - very little memory use and CPU registers 0 in Task Manager when it's open but inactive.

[ickarumba1]

I seem to have the same issue, but I cannot isolate the whine using the cardboard tube method.
I cannot distinguish if it is my PSU or my motherboard that causes the problem.
The noises occur when I open some applications and it keeps going for a while afterwards, whether the program has been closed or not.
The noise isn't a consistent whine, it lasts for a second or two, then a quick pause, then whines again.
The noise isn't loud, but it's very high pitched, but my case (fractal define r2) doesn't stop the sound.

Have you bought a new PSU or done anything to improve the issue?