Got some advice for my new (gaming) build?

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

Currently I'm putting together a new pc - mainly for gaming purposes - and I have to say it's been a lot of work for me because I´ve never really immersed myself in the technical details of all the different parts (I always let someone else do it for me :roll:

). But especially SPC has been really helpful, since I very much appreciate silent and quality pc builds (let's not talk about my current pc). So now I'd like to ask if you sensible people have some sensible advice regarding the parts I've combined until now. Here's the List:

MB ASUS P8Z68-V PRO Intel® Z68 Express, ATX, Onboard, 3x PCIe 2.0 x16, SLI, CrossFire, 1155
CPU Intel® Core™ i5-2500K 4x 3300 MHz, 4x 256 kB, 6144 kB, Sandy Bridge
DDR Kingston HyperX 8 GB DDR3-1600 Kit 8192 MB, CL9 9-9-27, 2 stuk(s), PC3 12800
GPU Club 3D CGAX-69548F AMD Radeon HD6950, 2048 MB, 256 Bit, PCIe x16 v2.0, PCIe x16 v2.1
PSU OCZ Fatal1ty 750W 750 Watt, ATX 12V 2.2, ATX 2.03, EPS, 6 x, 6 x
Case Antec SOLO II 2x 5,25" external, 3x 3,5" internal, 1x 2,5" internal, ATX
Fans SOLO II's Antec TrueQuiet 120 and 2x Noctua NF-S12B ULN 120x120x25 mm, 38,2 - 64,9 m³/h, 05 - 06,8 dB(A), max. 700 rpm
OD ASUS DRW-24B3ST 24 / 8 / 12 speed, 24 / 6 / 12 speed, Serial ATA/150, 16 / 48 speed
HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS, 1TB SATA-300

I already have the Barracuda so, excluding that, I'm looking at an approx. 900 euro build (apparently that's about 1,275 USD right now). I wouldn't mind spending a little less but I would like to end up with something as powerful and silent as this (assuming it is powerful and silent).

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:10 am

JordivanderTorre wrote:

MB ASUS P8Z68-V PRO Intel® Z68 Express, ATX, Onboard, 3x PCIe 2.0 x16, SLI, CrossFire, 1155

Pick a P67, ASUS or MSI: you won't yeld any advantage from a Z68 for the some bucks more you have to pay.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

DDR Kingston HyperX 8 GB DDR3-1600 Kit 8192 MB, CL9 9-9-27, 2 stuk(s), PC3 12800

Have you already checked its exact part number against the relevant ASUS QVL? Otherwise you might run into problems.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

GPU Club 3D CGAX-69548F AMD Radeon HD6950, 2048 MB, 256 Bit, PCIe x16 v2.0, PCIe x16 v2.1

Drop it. If you want a 6950, go only for the ASUS Direct CU II one.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

PSU OCZ Fatal1ty 750W 750 Watt, ATX 12V 2.2, ATX 2.03, EPS, 6 x, 6 x

Drop it: pick any 500W-class in the SPCR Recommended list.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS, 1TB SATA-300

Even if you already have it, drop it. Pick an Hitachi 5K3000, for example, or an Hitachi 7K1000.D Or go for a 90-120GB SSD and a quiet green drive (Samsung F4EG, WD EARX, or similar units).

EDIT: you forgot a CPU heatsink, if you care for quietness. Something as cheap as a Thermalright True Spirit 120 would be already adequate.

kuzzia · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:08 am

quest_for_silence wrote:

JordivanderTorre wrote:

MB ASUS P8Z68-V PRO Intel® Z68 Express, ATX, Onboard, 3x PCIe 2.0 x16, SLI, CrossFire, 1155

Pick a P67, ASUS or MSI: you won't yeld any advantage from a Z68 for the some bucks more you have to pay.

Agreed, Z68 only offers the option to use integrated graphics and SSD caching. You can therefore save som bucks with the P67.

Usually, gamer PSU's are not quiet enough for a SPCR-quiet system. In Europe I know a place where you can buy the Nexus Nx-5000 for cheap (ships from the UK).
Otherwise I can refer to PSU's from Enermax, Seasonic X-series, premium KingWin PSU's, the forementioned NX-5000. The Cooler Master Silent Pro M series is a tad louder than the others (14dBA/1m) but modular, affordable and recommended by SPCR. You could also buy a PSU and swap a fan (voids the warranty but ultimative control of noise.)

Also agree with quest_for_silence about buying an after-marked CPU heatsink. If you're completely blank on this point, then SPCR have an abundance of reviews. You can, of course, also ask the forum members. Do you have any budget for your CPU-cooler?

Otherwise, great picks on components. :wink:

Scrooge · **Joined:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:46 am **Posts:** 203

Also, I'd seriously focus on heatsinks that bolt through the motherboard. Pushpins are ridiculous.

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

It's true I've considered the option of an extra SSD-drive and slower, bigger HDD but since it's pretty expensive and not in my budget right now, I'm content to wait for that a bit longer. It's also a reason for me to purchase a Z68 now, since that's something I can benefit from later on (isn't it?), without having to buy a new motherboard. And it's not a lot more expensive.

Still, you're right about the PSU, although I'm not sure I want to spend an extra 50-70 euro to get the Enermax Modu87+ or a Seasonic X. Or will it pay itself back in efficiency? Maybe the Seasonic M12II-520Bronze (SS-520GM) is a good option? Or a similarly priced Enermax?
500W is probably enough, but I might dabble in overclocking (thus the 2500K), should I gather enough courage. So I'm not sure how that affects power demand.

I actually didn't know what a QVL list was, but it seems that it's the list that tells me which DDR I can best pick for my motherboard. Alright, so different DDR it is (since mine wasn't on the list. Recommendations, anyone? How about the Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1600 Kit (Light-Retail, CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9, Vengeance) (+30 euro) or Patriot 8 GB DDR3-1600 Kit (Light-Retail, PX538G1600LLK, Viper Xtreme, XMP)? These are on the list and also available at the shop where I'm buying. It's either that or more MHz or less GB or a 4-piece kit.

Ill keep that in mind, Scrooge, thanks. I'm not sure what to look for in CPU-coolers, though, so suggestions would be nice. Fan or no fan? Something up to ~30 euro/dollar, like the Thermalright True Spirit?

So, um, why the ASUS Direct CU II?

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

OK, never mind the RAM thing. I found a kit that matches both my CPU and my mobo's QVL: Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1333 Kit. (This is what I'm talking about.) Damn that stuff is complicated. I'm just a (Dutch) linguist! :roll:

I've chosen the Enermax EES500AWT-ErP as my PSU because its price is not too steep and, if it really it is the same as in the test, it comes recommended by spcr.

I'm not going with the ASUS EAH6950 DCII because it doesn't have HDMI output and it's still 30 euro more than the Club 3D.

I'm still not sure about the CPU cooler but I think the Scythe Grand Kama Cross is a viable option.

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

So this is the amended list of parts until now:

MB: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO Intel® Z68 Express, ATX, Onboard, 3x PCIe 2.0 x16, SLI, CrossFire, 1155
CPU: Intel® Core™ i5-2500K 4x 3300 MHz, 4x 256 kB, 6144 kB, Sandy Bridge
CPU-C: Scythe Grand Kama Cross 09,6 - 24,7 dB(A), 46,2 - 118,8 m³/h
DDR: Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1333 Kit 8192 MB, CL9 9-9-24, 2 stuk(s), PC3 10600
GPU: Club 3D CGAX-69548F AMD Radeon HD6950, 2048 MB, 256 Bit, PCIe x16 v2.0, PCIe x16 v2.1
PSU: Enermax EES500AWT-ErP 500 Watt, EPS, ATX12V 2.3, 6 x, 5 x
Case: Antec SOLO II 2x 5,25" external, 3x 3,5" internal, 1x 2,5" internal, ATX
Fans: SOLO II's Antec TrueQuiet 120 and 2x Noctua NF-S12B ULN 120x120x25 mm, 38,2 - 64,9 m³/h, 05 - 06,8 dB(A), max. 700 rpm
OD: ASUS DRW-24B3ST 24 / 8 / 12 speed, 24 / 6 / 12 speed, Serial ATA/150, 16 / 48 speed
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS, 1TB SATA-300

Remarks are again very much appreciated. :mrgreen:

CA_Steve · **Posted:** Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:21 pm

QVL stands for Qualified Vendor List...in case you were curious. These parts have been tested/vetted by the mobo house to insure that they work with the motherboard.

PMcG · **Posted:** Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:01 pm

I have never felt more of an upgrade in a system then adding an SSD, can't stress enough what a difference in the snappyness of the system one of these make.
Any reason for atx form factor? I did a build in the Silverstone TJ08-E and it was so nice, pair that with a micro-atx P67 and u will save a good amt of cash.
That graphics card looks pretty loud and will probably be your main source of noise, may want to get a heatsink for it.

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:53 pm

JordivanderTorre wrote:

It's also a reason for me to purchase a Z68 now, since that's something I can benefit from later on (isn't it?), without having to buy a new motherboard. And it's not a lot more expensive.

In my experience SSD caching isn't so much worthwhile nowadays, and it will be less and less so near in the future.
So IMVHO you won't use it, and even if you do, it won't help you so much.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

I'm not sure I want to spend an extra 50-70 euro to get the Enermax Modu87+ or a Seasonic X. Or will it pay itself back in efficiency? Maybe the Seasonic M12II-520Bronze (SS-520GM) is a good option? Or a similarly priced Enermax?

Both are good, maybe the Enermax might be a tad quieter at idle.
The higher efficiency of a Gold/Platinum PSU means obviously less consumption (and also less heat, so less noise): you may pick your latest energy bill, and then do your math (price for kw/hrs * watts spared * estimated power-on time).

JordivanderTorre wrote:

500W is probably enough, but I might dabble in overclocking (thus the 2500K), should I gather enough courage. So I'm not sure how that affects power demand.

Slightly (less than 50W up to 4.5GHz, according to Anandtech, if you like numbers)

JordivanderTorre wrote:

I actually didn't know what a QVL list was, but it seems that it's the list that tells me which DDR I can best pick for my motherboard. Alright, so different DDR it is (since mine wasn't on the list. Recommendations, anyone? How about the Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1600 Kit (Light-Retail, CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9, Vengeance) (+30 euro) or Patriot 8 GB DDR3-1600 Kit (Light-Retail, PX538G1600LLK, Viper Xtreme, XMP)? These are on the list and also available at the shop where I'm buying. It's either that or more MHz or less GB or a 4-piece kit.

The QVL or "Qualified Vendor List" is the pieces of RAM list approved by the mobo manufacturer.
It's dutch name should be "Geheugen/Apparatuur Ondersteuning" (asus.nl).
It's highly advisable to buy RAM on that list, in order to try to avoid incompatibility issues.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

Ill keep that in mind, Scrooge, thanks. I'm not sure what to look for in CPU-coolers, though, so suggestions would be nice. Fan or no fan? Something up to ~30 euro/dollar, like the Thermalright True Spirit?

Fanned heatsink are more performing and more flexible, than fanless one. Take also note that usually up to 5-600rpm a 120mm fan is no or hardly audible.
The TR True Spirit is one of the less expensive cooler (among the high performance and quiet fanned ones), this is why I adviced you for, while IMHO the quieter fans for CPU heatsinks are currently the Scythes. If you go for an ASUS board, be sure to have a PWM fan onto your CPU heatsink.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

So, um, why the ASUS Direct CU II?

Because it's one of the few high performance cards which run enough quiet or relatively quiet right out of the box.
Nowadays that GPU is probably the primary source of heat and noise, with the Club3D your mileage might vary too much (it should likely be slower and louder). IMHO, of course.
However, the ASUS do have one DVI-to-HDMI connector, if you mind, while current prices would look like enough similar (I've used http://geizhals.at/eu/?in=&fs=CGAX-69548F and http://geizhals.at/eu/?in=&fs=90-C1CQ80-S0UAY0BZ for a quick check).

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

PMcG wrote:

I have never felt more of an upgrade in a system then adding an SSD, can't stress enough what a difference in the snappyness of the system one of these make.

Don't worry. I will probably go for this quite soon. It's just that right now it's not necessary because I already have an HDD and I can use the money for something else.

PMcG wrote:

Any reason for atx form factor?

Not really. Are mATX equally good? I mean, I have space so why go mATX?

quest_for_silence wrote:

In my experience SSD caching isn't so much worthwhile nowadays, and it will be less and less so near in the future.
So IMVHO you won't use it, and even if you do, it won't help you so much.

You make a good point. I have been advised to get the ASUS SABERTOOTH P67 but it's the same price. And the ASUS P8P67 PRO -=Rev.3.1=- is also about the same price but doesn't support more than 8GB of memory (Z68= max 32GB), which is a downside in my opinion.

quest_for_silence wrote:

Because it's one of the few high performance cards which run enough quiet or relatively quiet right out of the box.
Nowadays that GPU is probably the primary source of heat and noise, with the Club3D your mileage might vary too much (it should likely be slower and louder). IMHO, of course. However, the ASUS do have one DVI-to-HDMI connector, if you mind, while current prices would look like enough similar.

PMcG wrote:

That graphics card looks pretty loud and will probably be your main source of noise, may want to get a heatsink for it.

So there's a lot of criticism on the GPU but I haven't really found any specs on GPU noise and heat or stuff like that so I can't tell if it's worth trading in that HDMI connector for it. A GPU heatsink may be an option but will it be enough?

quest_for_silence wrote:

Fanned heatsink are more performing and more flexible, than fanless one. Take also note that usually up to 5-600rpm a 120mm fan is no or hardly audible. The TR True Spirit is one of the less expensive cooler (among the high performance and quiet fanned ones), this is why I adviced you for, while IMHO the quieter fans for CPU heatsinks are currently the Scythes. If you go for an ASUS board, be sure to have a PWM fan onto your CPU heatsink.

Do you mean that i should have fan control on the CPU heatsink and keep it on 500-600 rpm because then it will be barely audible?

quest_for_silence wrote:

Both are good, maybe the Enermax might be a tad quieter at idle.
The higher efficiency of a Gold/Platinum PSU means obviously less consumption (and also less heat, so less noise): you may pick your latest energy bill, and then do your math (price for kw/hrs * watts spared * estimated power-on time).

As said in the review of the Enermax Eco80+ 500W PSU the power costs won't be the main thing to be worried about but I should think of heat/noise levels. but since it came out of the test pretty good I think this is a good choice that also saves me over 50 euro now compared to the Modu87+

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:40 am

JordivanderTorre wrote:

And the ASUS P8P67 PRO -=Rev.3.1=- is also about the same price but doesn't support more than 8GB of memory (Z68= max 32GB), which is a downside in my opinion.

AFAIK it's not true, the P8P67P PRO supports as well as up to 32GB RAM.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

A GPU heatsink may be an option but will it be enough?

You may ask via PM to doveman, he has already swapped the heatsink on its 6950: but those things don't go for free (around 50 euros).

JordivanderTorre wrote:

Do you mean that i should have fan control on the CPU heatsink and keep it on 500-600 rpm because then it will be barely audible?

Yes and no. Yes your question above is, broadly speaking, enough true (your mileage may vary).
No, I haven't said so: I have said the ASUS boards do need a PWM fan. Some renowned heatsinks (for example, Noctua) don't have a PWM fan (with a 4-pins header) but a voltage controlled one (with a 3-pins header): so check which technology the fan of choice uses.

And first of all I told you that fanless heatsinks are less flexible than fanned one, without giving in most cases a definitive advantage with reference to quietness. With one further note: very often the stock fan sold with an heatsink isn't a very good one (i.e. quiet: this is the case of the very good Cooler Master Hyper 212+, a very good cooler but mated with a bad sounding fan), so if you don't want to buy an additional fan (a good sounding one, I mean), maybe you should go for a Scythe heatsink.
The Grand Kama Cross is a good one, but there are several ones, the venerable Mugen 2, the Yasya, the Rasetsu, and so on.
Another name enough reliable for fan quietness is nowadays Thermalright. It may worth a look the latest SPCR articles on cooling.

"JordivanderTorre wrote:

I think this is a good choice that also saves me over 50 euro now compared to the Modu87+

You have just to check the recorded noise level at your alleged power consumption level: personally I don't think a Pro80+ could feed an oc'ed Sandy Bridge with a 6950 quietly at load. IIRC that PSU is good/very good up to 150-200W DC, while just the 6950 can draw up to 200-230W DC. A dutch alternative is Nexus: the NX-5000 R3 is probably a safer bet than the Enermax Pro, with reference to your setup.
Again, give a read to SPCR articles on power supplies.

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

quest_for_silence wrote:

AFAIK it's not true, the P8P67P PRO supports as well as up to 32GB RAM.

Sorry, the webshop's information was faulty. Of course, just 8GB would have been ridiculous.

Well, I'll look for a P67 alternative then. Any suggestions? How about the Sabertooth?

quest_for_silence wrote:

You may ask via PM to doveman, he has already swapped the heatsink on its 6950: but those things don't go for free (around 50 euros).

That's a bit much. And I don't think the technicians at the shop do that kind of stuff. And if I'd have to do it myself then I'd void the warranty...

It's better to go for the more quiet solution then, the ASUS Direct CU II you suggested. But isn't there a GPU that does equally well on the silence department and has a HDMI connector? If not, is there another way to get HDMI to my tv?
Edit: the ASUS Direct CU II description says it comes with a DVI to HDMI adapter. I'm guessing this is a sufficient option for enjoying HDMI?

quest_for_silence wrote:

The Grand Kama Cross is a good one, but there are several ones, the venerable Mugen 2, the Yasya, the Rasetsu, and so on. Another name enough reliable for fan quietness is nowadays Thermalright. It may worth a look the latest SPCR articles on cooling.

One of my "problems" is that I can choose from what the webshop I'm looking at has to offer. It has only three Thermalrights that match my system: Venomous X, Archon and True Spirit. While the Venomous is a 3-pin and the True Spirit isn't ideal when it comes to noise, the Archon is too expensive at 70 euro.
Looking at the Scythe department, I have a lot more choices. The best seems to be the Mugen at 40 euro, considering SPCR's reviews. "Drawback" is that SPCR tested the Mugen 2 and the shop only has the Mugen 3 (a safe bet maybe?). Second best (according to the Recommended Heatsinks list) would be the Scythe Grand Kama Cross at 30 euro. The shop also has the Yasya but it's not in the Recommended Heatsinks list.

quest_for_silence wrote:

You have just to check the recorded noise level at your alleged power consumption level: personally I don't think a Pro80+ could feed an oc'ed Sandy Bridge with a 6950 quietly at load. IIRC that PSU is good/very good up to 150-200W DC, while just the 6950 can draw up to 200-230W DC.

The eXtreme Power Supply Calculator tells me that my system could draw a maximum of approximately 400-430W, without overclocking. I'm not sure what my average will be though so I don't really know what range to look at in the reviews. Nevertheless, I'll start browsing again.

Abula · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:50 pm

JordivanderTorre wrote:

One of my "problems" is that I can choose from what the webshop I'm looking at has to offer. It has only three Thermalrights that match my system: Venomous X, Archon and True Spirit. While the Venomous is a 3-pin and the True Spirit isn't ideal when it comes to noise, the Archon is too expensive at 70 euro.
Looking at the Scythe department, I have a lot more choices. The best seems to be the Mugen at 40 euro, considering SPCR's reviews. "Drawback" is that SPCR tested the Mugen 2 and the shop only has the Mugen 3 (a safe bet maybe?). Second best (according to the Recommended Heatsinks list) would be the Scythe Grand Kama Cross at 30 euro. The shop also has the Yasya but it's not in the Recommended Heatsinks list.

I always wanted to try the Archon, as its suppose to be best performing single fan / single rad air cooler, but its a very tall tower heatsink, and none of my cases can fit one. I own a mugen 3 (never had the the mugen 2), and its a good cooler, probably not the best as not as huge, but its pretty good, and the fan it comes (slipstream pwm) its good also, in the intel mobo that im trying it out, it can spin down to 300rpm, that would be my choice out of the options you are considering. Personally im very sad i wont be able to use it on the server build, as the new supermicro mobo, has the PCIe slots way to close to the CPU, so going with AXP140.

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

That's really helpful. Thanks, Abula.

Abula · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:16 pm

Np, its a nice cooler, just check that it can fit the Solo II, as its 158mm height, not as tall as the archon but still among the standard big towers.

Just a couple of remarks reading back up,

Quote:

DDR: Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1333 Kit 8192 MB, CL9 9-9-24, 2 stuk(s), PC3 10600

Not sure what model you going with, as corsair has big tall memory like dominator or vengance and low profile memory like vengance low profile. This is important cause the Mugen 3 might have the fan close to your memory banks, not sure as i don't own the mobo your want, but on the intel it covers 2 memory banks, i woudlnt be able to use vengance for sure, so just be careful and crosscheck it wont overlap or chose a lower height memory.

Quote:

Fans: SOLO II's Antec TrueQuiet 120 and 2x Noctua NF-S12B ULN 120x120x25 mm, 38,2 - 64,9 m³/h, 05 - 06,8 dB(A), max. 700 rpm

On the Fans not sure if you already purchase them, but a nice not supper expensive fan is the Scythe Slip Stream PWM 120 mm (200 - 1300rpm), its pwm, so you mobo can control those fans via bios/software depending on the conditions of your pc. Just a warning on my 2 asus mobos, on pure bios, im not able to lower the rpms on chassis fans below 60% (CPU have much lower restriction i think 20 or 30%, dont quote me on the number), which would be aprox of 700rpm on the slipstreams (similar to your desired noctuas), but the fans can go lower, its just a restriction on my Asus bios (my intel mobo can lower them to 30% on chassis and 20% CPU), but i think you can lower them via AI Suite (should be included with the mobo).

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:00 pm

Abula wrote:

Np, its a nice cooler, just check that it can fit the Solo II, as its 158mm height, not as tall as the archon but still among the standard big towers.

The Solo II accept coolers as high as 174mm, so virtually anything.

kuzzia · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:47 pm

Have you considered an SSD?

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

kuzzia wrote:

Have you considered an SSD?

Yes, I have. I said before I'll go for that later on. First the rest of the build.

Abula wrote:

Not sure what model you going with, as corsair has big tall memory like dominator or vengance and low profile memory like vengance low profile. This is important cause the Mugen 3 might have the fan close to your memory banks, not sure as i don't own the mobo your want, but on the intel it covers 2 memory banks, i woudlnt be able to use vengance for sure, so just be careful and crosscheck it wont overlap or chose a lower height memory.

It's the XMS3 series (CMX8GX3M2A1333C9). Looks like a low memory so I don't think it'll be a problem. But I'll probably have to change it anyway if I decide to go for a P67 motherboard after all. I'll get back to you on that though.

Abula wrote:

On the Fans not sure if you already purchase them, but a nice not supper expensive fan is the Scythe Slip Stream PWM 120 mm (200 - 1300rpm), its pwm, so you mobo can control those fans via bios/software depending on the conditions of your pc.

I haven't figured out yet how to deal with the speed settings for fans in the BIOS since I haven't bought anything just yet. But I'll need to understand so please be as concrete as you can in explaining your advice.
I've seen the Scythe Slip Stream as a fan on a lot of CPU coolers so I know it's a pretty good one. But although it has almost double the power of the Noctua, isn't the Noctua still a lot more silent? I'm not sure how they compare. I do know that the Noctua comes with a 3 to 4 pin adapter. I guess that means BIOS controlable?

Abula · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:25 pm

JordivanderTorre wrote:

I haven't figured out yet how to deal with the speed settings for fans in the BIOS since I haven't bought anything just yet. But I'll need to understand so please be as concrete as you can in explaining your advice.
I've seen the Scythe Slip Stream as a fan on a lot of CPU coolers so I know it's a pretty good one. But although it has almost double the power of the Noctua, isn't the Noctua still a lot more silent? I'm not sure how they compare. I do know that the Noctua comes with a 3 to 4 pin adapter. I guess that means BIOS controlable?

3pin or 4pin isnt like the only thing that will qualify for fan control.

Some mobos can control 4pin pwm fans via BIOS/Software, in some cases one or the other.
Some mobos can control 3pin (none pwm) fans via voltage/software, in some case one or the other.
Some mobos can do both 3pin n 4pin, some via voltage some via pwm some via software.
Some mobos cant control anything, lol this is true on old mobos, new ones tend to be able to do one or the other.

Now more in concrete with Asus, i own 2 mobos (gene Z and P8B WS), on both the you can control PWM fans (4pin) via bios and software (AI Suite), now on the bios is a little more tricky, as only the cpu has lower restrictions, the Chasis fans / Case fan plugs, even when they are 4pin (same as the cpu fan plug) in the bios you can only drop them to 60% of the speed (this is with the latest bios on both mobos), when you type a number lower than 60, it says invalid (it does allow higher), i don't have the slightest idea why would asus will put different restrictions and even then why so high on case fans (my intel mobo has 30% for case fans and 20% for cpu fan). Now Asus can also control the fans via AI Suite / Fan expert (their own software for fan control), i read that some have even gone lower than what bios resticted (i havent tested personally this, as i dont use AI Suite, as it conflicts with other sensor reading software like HWmonitor).

If you wish to see more how Asus mobos work with AI Suite, check ASUS Sabertooth 990FX Motherboard Overview (AMD Bulldozer) | JJ's Corner

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:53 pm

JordivanderTorre wrote:

Any suggestions? How about the Sabertooth?

It should be good: personally, if I wanted to lower the expenses, I would look at something like an ASUS P8P67M PRO, or an MSI P67A-GD65.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

But isn't there a GPU that does equally well on the silence department and has a HDMI connector?

It may be: just I don't know it, so I can't help, sorry.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

I'm guessing this is a sufficient option for enjoying HDMI?

I guess so.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

One of my "problems" is that I can choose from what the webshop I'm looking at has to offer. It has only three Thermalrights that match my system: Venomous X, Archon and True Spirit. While the Venomous is a 3-pin and the True Spirit isn't ideal when it comes to noise, the Archon is too expensive at 70 euro.

IMO either the True Spirit or Macho may work well.
You don't have to look at the noise data on Alternate: declared data are either unreliable or not directly applicable.
As found by SPCR, the True Spirit will be enough quiet under 1000rpm, the Macho under 900rpm: to achieve these figures you need some form of control (BIOS, rheobus, SpeedFan or similar software).

JordivanderTorre wrote:

Second best (according to the Recommended Heatsinks list) would be the Scythe Grand Kama Cross at 30 euro. The shop also has the Yasya but it's not in the Recommended Heatsinks list.

The Grand Kama Cross will be a more than decent choice (very good up to 900rpm), the Yasya is good up to 1000rpm (and an excellent heatsink swapping its - too fast - fan with a classical 1300rpm SlipStream).

JordivanderTorre wrote:

The eXtreme Power Supply Calculator tells me that my system could draw a maximum of approximately 400-430W, without overclocking. I'm not sure what my average will be though so I don't really know what range to look at in the reviews. Nevertheless, I'll start browsing again.

You just need some ballpark figures.
Looking at several charts published for the 6950 along with SPCR findings for the 2500K, you could expect a power draw around 55W at idle, 105W in Blue Ray playback, 255W while heavy gaming, 315W under stress test.

These are PSU's acoustic performance tested by SPCR in the last years (hotbox values are the ones I would look at if your enclosure have a top mounting PSU, open-air values should be more similar to those ones you are likely to find when using a bottom mounting PSU case).

Code:

Testing in the hotbox
                 WATTS/DB                            Q4 2011 @
MODEL       90 150 200 250 300 400 500 6-700 850  NEWEGG PRICE
LZP-550    <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10  22   --   --      160$
AX-850     <10 <10  12  15  18  25  35   38   39      190$
GX-700      15  15  18  20  25  32  35   36   --      180$
TP-750      12  12  14  14  18  33  40   40   --      140$
X-400FL    <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10*  --   --      125$
MODU87+     11  11  11  11  14  20  23   --   --      140$ #
NX5000      11  11  12  14  22  24  25   --   --      100$ #
CX-400      19  26  32  35  35  35  --   --   --      ---$
ECO80+ II  <11  12  16  19  26  32  33   --   --      ---$
X-650      <10  11  12  14  16  31  31   32   --      140$
CP-850      12  12  12  14  14  26  40   44   45      115$
RX-8500     14  14  18  23  28  32  32   33   33      145$ #
M700W       14  14  18  21  25  27  30   34   --      130$
CP700M      15  15  15  15  17  30  34   34   --      ---$
VALUE430    11  11  16  18  18  19  --   --   --       60$ #
M12D850     14  14  14  14  14  24  37   42   42      148$ #
SG650       15  15  15  16  18  28  36   47   --      215$ #
DA700       18  18  18  28  23  32  35   41   --      120$ #
MODU82+ 425 13  13  14  15  16  26  --   --   --      125$ #
ECS7001     22  22  22  21  23  25  36   37   --      ---$
ZM1000HP    20  20  20  20  20  20  26   37   40  ±   250$ 
TX650W      21  21  21  21  23  38  43   44   --  ±   ---$ 
MODU82+ 625 13  13  14  15  16  26  36   37   --      130$ 
 
Testing out of the hotbox
                 WATTS/DB                            Q4 2011 @
MODEL       90 150 200 250 300 400 500 6-700 850  NEWEGG PRICE
STR-500    <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <13   --   --      160$
X-460FL    <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <11 <13*  --   --      140$ 
ST50NF      11  11  11  11  15  15  16   --   --      200$
LZP-550    <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <10  16   --   --      160$
AX-850     <10 <10 <10 11~13 12 13  17   24   35      190$
GX-700      15  15  15  17  21  25  35   35   --      180$
TP-750      12  12  12  14  15  27  31   40   --      140$
X-400FL    <10 <10 <10 <10 <10 <11 <10*  --   --      125$ 
MODU87+     11  11  11  11  11  11  18   --   --      140$ #
NX5000      11  11  12  12 12.5 14  19   --   --      100$ #
CX-400      19  19  24  30  35  35  --   --   --      ---$
ECO80+ II  <11 <11  12  16  20  23  28   --   --      ---$
X-650      <10 <10 <10 <10 <10  16  27   32   --      140$
CP-850      12  12  12  12  12  14  20   24   40      115$

* = overload
# = price not from NewEgg 
@ = MIRs are not taken into account
± = not tested in the anechoic chamber 

So you may cross check those ballpark figures with the above tables, in order to find out your own trade-off.

CA_Steve · **Posted:** Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:49 am

Regarding DVI-D to HDMI, there are usually two issues to look out for.
- The video card must be HDCP compliant to show BluRay copywrited content. Shouldn't be an issue with any card released in the last couple of years.
- There isn't an audio stream with DVI-D. Not a huge deal unless you have a 7.1 speaker system and want to run some of the higher end audio decoding formats.

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

quest_for_silence wrote:

It should be good: personally, if I wanted to lower the expenses, I would look at something like an ASUS P8P67M PRO, or an MSI P67A-GD65.

Fair enough. But what's the actual difference between the regular ATX and mATX, apart from the size and cost? Because I don't really see a difference (probably me). I did notice, however, that the P8P67 PRO Rev.3.1 has something called Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 and the P8P67-M PRO Rev.3.0 doesn't. Oh yes, and of course the ATX supports 1600mHz memory and mATX only has up to 1333. So lots of difference, I guess.

Abula wrote:

If you wish to see more how Asus mobos work with AI Suite, check ASUS Sabertooth 990FX Motherboard Overview (AMD Bulldozer) | JJ's Corner

OK, that is awesome. I would love to have something as user friendly as that.

Alright, so for both CPU cooler and case fans I will need some form of fan control. It would be easiest if I could do this for all of those fans with the same application (either BIOS or software). So the big question is, can I do that with my current build (case fans and Mugen 3 heat sink)? It seems that the P8P67-M PRO Rev.3.0 BIOS utility has these options.

quest_for_silence wrote:

You just need some ballpark figures.
Looking at several charts published for the 6950 along with SPCR findings for the 2500K, you could expect a power draw around 55W at idle, 105W in Blue Ray playback, 255W while heavy gaming, 315W under stress test.
These are PSU's acoustic performance tested by SPCR in the last years (hotbox values are the ones I would look at if your enclosure have a top mounting PSU, open-air values should be more similar to those ones you are likely to find when using a bottom mounting PSU case).

Thanks, that's very helpful. If I understand correctly, I should be looking for a PSU that is silent up to at least 250-300W. If I remember correctly, SPCR says "silent" is under 20dB.
The ECO80+ II goes over that with 6dB at 300W.
Modu82+ would be an option. It only tops the 20dB boundary at 400W. Alternate has the 525W version so, judging by the table, it should stay within the silent boundary.
Too bad Alternate doesn't have Nexus... but that's about all I can say about this list.

CA_Steve wrote:

Regarding DVI-D to HDMI, there are usually two issues to look out for.
- The video card must be HDCP compliant to show BluRay copywrited content. Shouldn't be an issue with any card released in the last couple of years.
- There isn't an audio stream with DVI-D. Not a huge deal unless you have a 7.1 speaker system and want to run some of the higher end audio decoding formats.

Shouldn't be a problem then. Thanks, Steve.

markanini · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:15 pm

For your consideration, Asus and Gigabyte use 2oz copper PCB compared to standard 1oz which is good news for those nice heatsinks that approach 1 kilogram. Gigabyte uses cooler running Driver-Mosfets for for the voltage regulator circuit. Might bring some small advantage in a standard ATX case with a high power Grapshics card, might not. Note is that only Gigabyte boasts voltage regulator certification by Intel(VRD12). But whichever you get don't go with Asrock, if the retailer decides not to honor your warranty you'll be on you own.

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:53 am

JordivanderTorre wrote:

the P8P67 PRO Rev.3.1 has something called Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 and the P8P67-M PRO Rev.3.0 doesn't. Oh yes, and of course the ATX supports 1600mHz memory and mATX only has up to 1333

Use the compare feature of the ASUS site: 2 SATA/eSATA less, three slots less, no bluetooth, Realtek vs Intel GbE, different FW chip, two USB 3.0 less (but two USB 2.0 more), less refined VRM and a bunch of other minor goodies. It's all due to the larger form factor.

I just can add that I'm testing it against my Gene-Z, and it goes the same, maybe a bit better/easier on oc'ing (but I haven't performed stability tests).

JordivanderTorre wrote:

It seems that the P8P67-M PRO Rev.3.0 BIOS utility has these options.

With PWM fans the ASUS work good, SpeedFan also. I don't use AI Suite but I think it isn't that bad.

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

quest_for_silence wrote:

Use the compare feature of the ASUS site: 2 SATA/eSATA less, three slots less, no bluetooth, Realtek vs Intel GbE, different FW chip, two USB 3.0 less (but two USB 2.0 more), less refined VRM and a bunch of other minor goodies. It's all due to the larger form factor.

Well, I like keeping my options open so I guess I'll just go with the regular ATX (thanks for the summary by the way). Along with its minor goodies it's still more future proof than the mATX (in terms of memory and USB). Also, my brain starts to hurt because of all the abbreviations in the list.

Still haven't decided on the CPU heatsink. I've looked at the Scythe Mugen 3 and Grand Kama Cross and the Thermalright HR-02 Macho but I'm getting nowhere.

On another note though, I've been checking the connections for fans on the ASUS motherboard but it seems like I'll be short one fan connection. It lists one for the CPU, one for the PSU and two for the case (1x 4-pin, 1x 3-pin). Since I have three planned for the case this might be a small problem.
This does however answer the question about whether or not this motherboard supports a 3-pin fan (please correct me if I'm wrong) like the Noctua. For which I'm grateful because that was the only part no one commented on.

And of course there's always the 3 to 4 pin adapter that comes with the Noctua fan... No idea if this works though.

Abula · **Posted:** Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:09 pm

JordivanderTorre wrote:

Still haven't decided on the CPU heatsink. I've looked at the Scythe Mugen 3 and Grand Kama Cross and the Thermalright HR-02 Macho but I'm getting nowhere.

HR02 Macho has very good reviews, its a good cooler, just was too expensive as the none Macho version. This would be my choice out of what you are deciding, but be careful cross check Thermalright PDF and see if its fully compatible with your mobo, as in Gene Z it needs a extra bracket, HR02 none macho has a different mounting system. Mugen 3 would be my second choice, its harder to mount but not a big deal either, the fan on both are really good, the slipstream can dip down 300rpm while the TY140 in my case 700rpm (i seen other go 600rpm).

JordivanderTorre wrote:

On another note though, I've been checking the connections for fans on the ASUS motherboard but it seems like I'll be short one fan connection. It lists one for the CPU, one for the PSU and two for the case (1x 4-pin, 1x 3-pin). Since I have three planned for the case this might be a small problem.

There are Y extensions, not recommeded to overload a single mobo heather, but there are options like Akasa Flexa FP5 PWM 5-Way Splitter - Smart Fan Cable (AK-CBFA03-45), that will let you power 5x 4pin PWM fan via 4pin molex and get the PWM signal through the mobo 4pin heather.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

This does however answer the question about whether or not this motherboard supports a 3-pin fan (please correct me if I'm wrong) like the Noctua. For which I'm grateful because that was the only part no one commented on.

And of course there's always the 3 to 4 pin adapter that comes with the Noctua fan... No idea if this works though.

All 4pin mobo heathers should support 3pin fans, the question is weather the mobo can control them via voltage/software, if it cant they will run a full 12V meaning full rpms.

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:02 pm

JordivanderTorre wrote:

Along with its minor goodies it's still more future proof than the mATX (in terms of memory and USB).

Just to be precise, with reference to memory they are identical.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

Also, my brain starts to hurt because of all the abbreviations in the list.

Do you think I may be less in trouble whether dealing with any dutch linguists specialties?

JordivanderTorre wrote:

Still haven't decided on the CPU heatsink.

Pick the cheaper one (among the quoted ones) with a PWM fan.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

And of course there's always the 3 to 4 pin adapter that comes with the Noctua fan... No idea if this works though.

Noctua? Which Noctua? And when any Noctua is arrived to play a role here?
However, maybe there's a misunderstanding: AFAIK you're talking about a (Noctua) 4-pin MOLEX connector, not a 4-pin fan header.

JordivanderTorre · **Joined:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am **Posts:** 39

quest_for_silence wrote:

Do you think I may be less in trouble whether dealing with any dutch linguists specialties?

You may have a point there. :mrgreen:

quest_for_silence wrote:

Pick the cheaper one (among the quoted ones) with a PWM fan.

Aw soab, I thought that the Kama was a 4-pin header. Fail, my bad.

As requested, the Macho's pdf:
P67
Maximus IV Extreme *Compatible New mounting bracket for Asus & Asrock boards required.
P8P67 *Compatible New mounting bracket for Asus & Asrock boards required.
P8P67 DELUXE *Compatible New mounting bracket required. The back plate will come into contact with a back screw, but this will not interfere or decrease the performance/function of the cooler.
P8P67 EVO *Compatible New mounting bracket required. The back plate will come into contact with a back screw, but this will not interfere or decrease the performance/function of the cooler.
P8P67 LE Okay
P8P67 PRO *Compatible New mounting bracket for Asus & Asrock boards required. I'll check this with Alternate.

Quote:

Noctua? Which Noctua? And when any Noctua is arrived to play a role here? However, maybe there's a misunderstanding: AFAIK you're talking about a (Noctua) 4-pin MOLEX connector, not a 4-pin fan header.

Uh, first post?

The Noctua NF-S12B ULN. Alternate says it has a 3 to 4 pin adapter but it's still unclear if this means BIOS control or not (will check with Alternate). Wikipedia says it doesn't: "4-pin Molex connector KK Family. This is a special variant of the Molex KK connector with four pins but with the locking/polarisation features of a 3-pin connector. The additional pin is used for a pulse-width modulation signal to provide variable speed control.[5] These can be plugged into 3-pin headers, but will lose their fan speed control."
And then there is still the fact that I'll be one fan connector short on the motherboard. Will also check this with Alternate.

Well, the mobo's manual (below) isn't much help either. Guess I'll start looking for a different fan.

8. CPU, chassis, and power fan connectors
(4-pin CPU_FAN; 4-pin CHA_FAN1; 3-pin CHA_FAN2; 3-pin PWR_FAN1 )
Connect the fan cables to the fan connectors on the motherboard, ensuring that the black wire of each cable matches the ground pin of the connector.
• The CPU_FAN connector supports the CPU fan of maximum 1A (12 W) fan power.
• Only the CPU_FAN, CHA_FAN 1 and CHA_FAN 2 connectors support the ASUS FAN Xpert feature.
• If you install two VGA cards, we recommend that you plug the rear chassis fan cable to the motherboard connector labeled CHA_FAN1 or CHA_FAN2 for better thermal environment.

Abula · **Posted:** Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:29 am

JordivanderTorre wrote:

As requested, the Macho's pdf:
P8P67 PRO *Compatible New mounting bracket for Asus & Asrock boards required. I'll check this with Alternate.

Well from your original post you were considering the ASUS P8Z68-V PRO, according to the PDF there is a similar board compatible with the Macho,

P8Z68-M PRO *Okay PCI-E Slot can’t be used

Not saying you should go with it, just saying that if the P67 will have issues and you will need to get an extra bracket, might as well just get the Z68 and be good, now the issue is might be using the PCIe slot, but in the case i think they mean the PCIe x1 slot, even on my GENE Z (micro ATX) with the PCIe right next to the sound plugs (same location as the PCIe x1 slot of the P8Z68-V PRO) and i can fit the HR02 (check sig for proof), so i think the 2nd slot (1st PCIe x16 slot) of the asus Z68 should be fine for GPU with the HR02. Try to crosscheck this as im just speculating based on my personal experience. As an alternative there is the Mugen 3 that its not as wide as the HR02, and has a good PWM fan on it.

JordivanderTorre wrote:

Well, the mobo's manual (below) isn't much help either. Guess I'll start looking for a different fan.

I dont have bad experiences with noctua, i have two in a cooler after 3 years and the fans are running really good, no issues. My decision today skipping noctua is more that they dont offer 4pin PWM fans, once they revise their line of fans i might again, but they come with voltage adapters, so you can chose the speed you want to run them, this might be fine its up to you. Personally i like more the ability to control the fan via bios, but some 3pins can be control by mobos also via voltage. For the money i think the Slipstream PWM SY1225SL12LM-P is a good option if you intend control it via 4pin PWM fan heathers and the bios/software.

Got some advice for my new (gaming) build?

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