It is currently Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:10 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:49 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Hiya

I'd like some comments on a build I'm doing and have a few questions on the combination of some of them...

My CURRENT build is:
CASE: Antec Sonata II
MB: ASUS P5B Deluxe
CPU: Q6600 @ 3.0 GHz (undervolted to stock 2.4 GHz voltage)
HSF: XIGMATEK HDT-S1283
RAM: Corsair 2 x 1 GB PC2-6400 + Kingston 2 x 1 GB PC2-5300
DISK: Intel SSD X25-M 80 GB (SSDSA2MH080G2R5) + WDC Caviar Black 2 TB
PSU: Corsair HX 520W (recommended on this forum in 2007, and the best PSU I've ever had!)

Here is what I'm considering for my NEW build:
CASE: Corsair Obsidian 550D (if the reviews are favorable) / Antec Solo II
MB: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro/GEN3 [was: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro]
CPU: Intel I7-2700K (BX80623I72700K)
HSF: Noctua NH-C14
RAM: Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 2 x 4 GB (CML8GX3M2A1600C9) [was: Corsair Vengeance 2 x 8 GB (CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10)]
DISK: Intel SSD 520 Series 240 GB (SSDSC2CW240A301) + 2 old disks
PSU: old PSU

Initially I think I'm going to run the CPU at stock speed initially, but I'll probably replace my Radeon HD 5850 later in the year if one of the new AMD/nVidia cards come out with a similar power @ double speed. If so, I'll try to overclock the CPU 25% and undervolt to reduce heat.

I generally consider my current build quiet for everyday use. I do extensive x264 encoding and play 3D games @ 1920x1200.

I have a few questions about the components...

CASE: I'll get the 550d if it gets favorably reviews on noise reduction. I'm ready to replace the stock fans if they're a problem. I just love the look inside and out. If it doesn't get favorable reviews, I'm considering the Solo II. Will the Solo II be an improvement on the Sonata II? It's quiet, looks okay and not too big, but I really don't like the HDD mounting, it seems like quite a step back from the Sonata II. In the 7 years I've had the Sonata II, HDDs are by far the thing I've swapped out the most.

HSF/RAM: Will this RAM fit under the NH-C14? If I'm overclocking, I'll probably be using both fans.

MB/HSF/CASE: All the 3-4 pin / PWM / voltage fan control is a bit confusing to me. I'd like the BIOS to run all fans and keep them quiet except when usage demands higher rotations. That seems to work for me on the P5B. From what I've read, I need to connect the NH-C14 to a CASE fan header on the MB for the speed to be controllable by the BIOS. But what about my case fans then? I don't know if the 550d has 3 or 4 pin fans.

Edit: Updated MB+RAM


Last edited by mnerec on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:47 am
Posts: 429
Location: Bratislava, Slovak Republic
2) Vengeance doesn't fit bellow any other cooler than are like stock or H50 cooler type. And because cooling RAM is pretty much useless, just get yourself some standard RAM, if you need fancy coolers get yourself a G-Skill RipjawsX.
3) ASUS Fan control = fan control only using 4-pin PWM on CPU fan headers, no idea about the rest (3-pin CHAsis FANs are usually controllable as one).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:27 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4516
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
RAM: not sure if x.264 encoding cares about 16GB of RAM. 2x4GB of lower latency RAM might be better..but I'm no expert on x.264. You can get low profile RAM these days, as well.

Since Ivy Bridge is just around the corner, I'd suggest either:
- wait a few months and get an Ivy Bridge CPU/mobo.
- don't wait, but get the GEN3 version of that ASUS mobo for Ivy Bridge compliance and the cheaper i5-2500 or 2500K. For x.264 second pass, you'll get about 1.9x speed with the i5 instead of 2.5x speed with the i7 over your Q6600 and save $100+ now....and won't feel so bad about tossing it out for an IVB CPU later.

Case: the 550D looks nice. e-tailers are starting to have stock, so I'm hoping reviews will turn up shortly.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:49 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
MB: Updated MB to GEN3. It was actually a typo, as they cost the same I was going to get it.

RAM: Thanks for the heads up! I've haven't been able to find low profile 2 x 8 GB module, and I'd like to go with as much as possible to avoid the situation I have in my system now with mixed memory. Anyway, I changed it to 2 x 4 low profile, so they should fit.

CPU: Is IVY bridge really worth the wait? I've been waiting for ages, but the # of cores are the same, a 10% speed boost and a souped up IGP.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:26 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4516
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
mnerec wrote:
CPU: Is IVY bridge really worth the wait? I've been waiting for ages, but the # of cores are the same, a 10% speed boost and a souped up IGP.


Current rumors lead to the desktop parts coming out at the end of this month. So, there will be tons of reviews to read and see if it's just 10% or much more. Quick Sync has been tuned up, so if your encoder supports it, that could be useful. Also, TDP has been lowered from 95W to 77W for the quads. Lower power -> less heat -> slower fans -> easier to have a silent build. There are also rumors of decent overclocking.

I'd expect the SNB prices to drop when IVB releases. So, it might be worth it to wait just to get lower SNB price.

I'm in the same boat - have been limping along with an e8400 and have been waiting for IVB and a 7850 card (damn games :D ). 7850 looks to be the sweet spot for my gaming needs. I'll probably get the video card next month after the non-reference cooler reviews come out and NVidia releases their next gen (there will be some downward price pressure). For IVB, I'm conservative - don't like to deal with mobo BIOS revisions. I'll probably get an IVB setup in August.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 567
Location: de_DE
For h.264 encoding check Intel Quick Sync. It's about 5-8 times as fast on a Sandy Bridge system than other encoders. You need to buy proprietary software, there's no freeware solution at the moment.
Ivy Bridge quad cores will be out April 29th. i5-3570K replaces i5-2500K/2550K, same clock speed, same socket, same price, lower power consumption (77W vs 95W). New mainboards will be out April 8th. Z77 replaces Z68/P67, native USB 3.0 support, that's it.
There's pics of allmost all Z77 boards from Cebit if you google for Z77 + manufacturer's name.

_________________
Lian Li V600, Asus P77Z-M Pro, i5-3570K 4.4GHz with Scythe Orochi, 140mm Slipstream 500RPM and Mugen2 115X Bolt through kit,
Evga GTX 670 FTW+ 4GB with Thermalright Spitfire and Thermalright TY-150 500-800RPM, Seasonic 460W Platinum Fanless


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:06 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 708
Location: Denmark
ASUS can control 3-pin fans. The voltage range is 5-12 V, but you would have yo use ASUS FanXpert which is a part of ASUS AI Suite. But it works great, and there's no need to run the program every time you use the computer. FanXpert will control the fan even when it's turned off. You can also control the PWM fan of the CPU here. It can be run as low as 10-20 %!

Why don't you like the HDD mount in the Solo II?

I notice that the Noctua NH-C14 uses 3-pin fans with starting voltages at ~7 V. There are probably quieter alternatives if you choose to run the fans at that voltage.

_________________
Cooler Master Elite 341, Athlon II X3 425, Radeon 5750 (passive, fan zip-tied on), Crucial M4 64 GB.
Cooling: AC Alpine 64 Pro, rear exhaust Scythe Slipstream 800 rpm @ ~5 V


"SSD's: The difference between a casual jogger and a dog chasing a ball"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:49 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
CA_Steve wrote:
Quick Sync has been tuned up, so if your encoder supports it, that could be useful.

boost wrote:
For h.264 encoding check Intel Quick Sync. It's about 5-8 times as fast on a Sandy Bridge system than other encoders. You need to buy proprietary software, there's no freeware solution at the moment.

From what I've read and seen, the quality of QuickSync encodings don't come close to x264. I had high hopes for it, but for this generation and the next, it seems more like a gimmick.

Regarding Ivy in general, I'd like the reduced TDP and native USB 3.0, but I don't think that's enough for me at the moment. Besides, April 29th is too late! I'm taking April off from work, and would really like to play around with a new build :-)
kuzzia wrote:
ASUS can control 3-pin fans. The voltage range is 5-12 V, but you would have yo use ASUS FanXpert which is a part of ASUS AI Suite. But it works great, and there's no need to run the program every time you use the computer. FanXpert will control the fan even when it's turned off. You can also control the PWM fan of the CPU here. It can be run as low as 10-20 %!

So you say it's run once, set settings and no looking back? No need to rerun FanExpert? I could live with that :-D
kuzzia wrote:
Why don't you like the HDD mount in the Solo II?

It's seems way too cumbersome. You have to open the side door, open the front, open filter and THEN slide the drive in/out.
In my Sonata II, it's open the side door and slide the drive in/out. The 550D seems simple like the Sonata II.
kuzzia wrote:
I notice that the Noctua NH-C14 uses 3-pin fans with starting voltages at ~7 V. There are probably quieter alternatives if you choose to run the fans at that voltage.

You mean that the lowest setting could be quieter? Would it make sense to replace the fans, maybe with 4 pin fans? Or should I look around for another HSF, maybe one of the other Noctua?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Posts: 3395
Location: US
CA_Steve wrote:
Since Ivy Bridge is just around the corner, I'd suggest either:
- wait a few months and get an Ivy Bridge CPU/mobo.
- don't wait, but get the GEN3 version of that ASUS mobo for Ivy Bridge compliance and the cheaper i5-2500 or 2500K. For x.264 second pass, you'll get about 1.9x speed with the i5 instead of 2.5x speed with the i7 over your Q6600 and save $100+ now....and won't feel so bad about tossing it out for an IVB CPU later.
That makes sense... but what is the exact difference between the old chip sets and the ones that are going to become available in the next few weeks? It seems like all the important features are available from the current chip sets.

Is there not one or two new capabilities available on the new chip sets? Does anyone know?

_________________
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:20 am
Posts: 473
Location: Ottawa
kuzzia wrote:
ASUS can control 3-pin fans. The voltage range is 5-12 V, but you would have yo use ASUS FanXpert which is a part of ASUS AI Suite. But it works great, and there's no need to run the program every time you use the computer. FanXpert will control the fan even when it's turned off. You can also control the PWM fan of the CPU here. It can be run as low as 10-20 %!


This is true, but be aware that on most of ASUS's current mid-range boards the non-CPU PWM (4 pin) headers are really 3 pin voltage control headers. On my P8P67-PRO the "PWM" chassis 1 and the 3 pin chassis 2 headers are linked together and controlled as one in FanXpert. It works fine, but a lot of PWM fans don't react well to voltage control. Check your manual to be sure, but put 3 pin fans on the "PWM" headers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:03 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4516
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
ces wrote:
Is there not one or two new capabilities available on the new chip sets? Does anyone know?


IVB mobo's will have native USB 3.0 rather than having to add another chip for it.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Posts: 3395
Location: US
CA_Steve wrote:
IVB mobo's will have native USB 3.0 rather than having to add another chip for it.
To what extent, if any, does that matter? Is there any other difference?

_________________
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:20 am
Posts: 473
Location: Ottawa
ces wrote:
To what extent, if any, does that matter? Is there any other difference?


Besides the cost saving from not needing the extra chips, it would save one or more PCIe x1 slots. The current Sandy Bridge chip sets have 8 x1 slots for additional motherboard devices and/or slots. Each USB 3.0 controller takes an x1 slot and many boards have two of them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 567
Location: de_DE
Anandtech's Ivy Bridge review shows another 40% speed increase for Quick Sync over Sandy Bridge.

_________________
Lian Li V600, Asus P77Z-M Pro, i5-3570K 4.4GHz with Scythe Orochi, 140mm Slipstream 500RPM and Mugen2 115X Bolt through kit,
Evga GTX 670 FTW+ 4GB with Thermalright Spitfire and Thermalright TY-150 500-800RPM, Seasonic 460W Platinum Fanless


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:42 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 708
Location: Denmark
washu wrote:
kuzzia wrote:
ASUS can control 3-pin fans. The voltage range is 5-12 V, but you would have yo use ASUS FanXpert which is a part of ASUS AI Suite. But it works great, and there's no need to run the program every time you use the computer. FanXpert will control the fan even when it's turned off. You can also control the PWM fan of the CPU here. It can be run as low as 10-20 %!


This is true, but be aware that on most of ASUS's current mid-range boards the non-CPU PWM (4 pin) headers are really 3 pin voltage control headers. On my P8P67-PRO the "PWM" chassis 1 and the 3 pin chassis 2 headers are linked together and controlled as one in FanXpert. It works fine, but a lot of PWM fans don't react well to voltage control. Check your manual to be sure, but put 3 pin fans on the "PWM" headers.


What if I put regular 3-pin fan on the non-PWM 4-pin fan headers? Will they be controlled normally, just like when 3-pin fans are put on 3-pin headers?

_________________
Cooler Master Elite 341, Athlon II X3 425, Radeon 5750 (passive, fan zip-tied on), Crucial M4 64 GB.
Cooling: AC Alpine 64 Pro, rear exhaust Scythe Slipstream 800 rpm @ ~5 V


"SSD's: The difference between a casual jogger and a dog chasing a ball"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:49 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
kuzzia wrote:
I notice that the Noctua NH-C14 uses 3-pin fans with starting voltages at ~7 V. There are probably quieter alternatives if you choose to run the fans at that voltage.

SPCR's review states this:
Noctua wrote:
Dual NF-P14 FLX fans
The NH-C14 comes with two of Noctua’s award-winning, premium quality NF-P14 140mm fans that can be fine-tuned according to the user’s needs via the supplied Low-Noise (L.N.A.) and Ultra-Low-Noise Adaptors (U.L.N.A.).

SPCR wrote:
The P14 is one of the best sounding 140 mm fans you can buy and the included adapters gives users the ability to undervolt easily.

So it seems to be a non-issue.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:20 am
Posts: 473
Location: Ottawa
kuzzia wrote:
What if I put regular 3-pin fan on the non-PWM 4-pin fan headers? Will they be controlled normally, just like when 3-pin fans are put on 3-pin headers?


Yep, that's exactly how they work.

Check the manual to be sure. If the fourth pin is labelled "+5V" then it is a voltage controlled header and works best with 3 pin fans. If the fourth pin says "PWM" or "CPU FAN PWM" then it is a real 4 pin header.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:49 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
This guy summs up the P8Z68-V-PRO fan control nicely: ASUS Support: Some questions about fan control on P8Z68-V-PRO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Building Sandy Bridge machine for home - questions
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:49 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I'd really like 16 GB from the start to avoid the potential mixed memory setup in my current system.

I haven't been able to find a 2 x 8 GB low profile set in Denmark, so I'm seriously looking at Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 4 x 4 GB (CML16GX3M4A1600C9).

I've read that you should generally stick with 2 sticks when overclocking, but Corsair specifically states:
Corsair wrote:
Great for overclocking
Each Vengeance memory module is built from DRAM ICs specially selected for performance potential, to allow you to explore the limits of system overclocking.

Does anyone have experience with overclocking a i7 2x00k with 4 sticks?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group