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 Post subject: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:57 am 
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Hello hello to all forum

Sorry but I do not speak English, I'm using google translator

My intention is to make a pc inaudible to 'human ear, the PC must be inaudible even when fully loaded, must under no circumstances exceed the threshold of 9 dB, under 9-10 Deibel, the' man who can not hear anything .

To realize this system had been thinking about this configuration:

Case: Corsair Carbide 500R

PSU: Seasonic x460

Mobo: GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3

CPU: i5 Sandy Bridge 65 w

Hard disk: Crucial M4

Cooler: Thermalright HR-02 macho

Ram: Corsair DDR3 (2x2GB)

Writer: sony optiarc

Fans: Two NOISEBLOCKER m s2 12, positioned on the case (adjusted to 500 rpm)

What do you think, this configuration is inaudible ?

I have some doubts about the 'power supply and case. With this configuration, which is the absolute best case to get the maximum as temperature and noise ?

Advise me please you, a configuration under ten decibels at full-load.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:12 am 
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Your goal of 9~10 dBA, presumably at 1m, is basically impossible to verify without an anechoic chamber in which to measure the result.

Still...

A quiet 120mm fan at 500rpm is slightly below the ambient in our anechoic chamber, which measures 10-11 dBA, so two of them should be pretty close to inaudible. I'd suggest one fan on the HS and one on the case back panel, blowing out, so the two fans work together blowing in the same direction.

A Seasonic X400, if it does not have any electronic noise. will be silent. A few seem to exhibit electronic noise (whining or buzzing noise) but it depends a bit on what components are used. Since you don't have a discrete video card, your chances of no electronic noise should be good. A Superflower or Kingwin 500W platinum fanless is another alternative, and though I tested only one sample, it had no noise at all.

So if the only noise in your system comes from 2 quiet fans at 500rpm, would you be be able to hear them?

If you get close enough in a very quiet room, and you have decent hearing, yes. But you would have to get very close -- like maybe 1-1.5'. The sound should be pretty soft and non-intrusive, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:20 am 
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Thank you for having responded to me, you were very kind

I thought the goal of 9 -10 dB even at 10-20 cm, the distance between me and the computer while sitting in a desk.

I read on the forum that the human ear can not hear anything below 10 decibels, so if your PC is inudubile, we are pretty much in the threshold of 10 decibels.

The PC I have to put in my room, my intention is to leave it on while I sleep, or to download to 'do some video encoding, the PC while you sleep away from my head about 1 meter and 50 cm. The night silence is ever, I also feel the pc monitor, without seeing the monitor can not understand when it comes in standbay.

I'm sorry I did not understand a thing, a fan on 'HS are you referring to CPU cooler, the' what is HS ?

With a single fan to 500 rpm is impossible to cool the whole system ?

About the seasonic x 460, you must consider that later I might add, a panel VDF, two TV tuners, a rheobus, and a second hard drive, video card is enough for me even a low-end, I need just to handle the HD channels

I hope that adding these components do not show you were talking about the buzz.

Regarding the two fans at 500 rpm, explaining it to me that I should hear in a quiet room closer to 1-1.5, but you're referring to '1 meter or 1 meter and 50 cm ?

While I sleep, my aim is not to feel anything, the practice should I become aware if the PC is switched off, or just checking the LEDs of the case.

Last important thing, to make this project a few houses advise me, what is the absolute best for this type of configuration ?

I think that the case takes more aerated possible, to ensure the flow of 'area.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:15 pm 
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The fan on the Thermalright Macho spins at 900-1300 rpm according to this website:

http://www.thermalright.com/products/?act=data&id=178

I hope that is not true because 900 rpm is way too much for a "silent" computer.

The case (corsair 500R) is optimised for bigger and hotter components than yours. It has many holes for airflow so noise can escape from inside the case. Instead, consider a case optimised for silent computers. (Fractal Design Define R3, Define Mini, Antec Solo II).

Do you want to use a hard drive?

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:28 pm 
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By 1~1.5', I mean 1 to 1.5 feet.

kuzzia has a good point.

"the goal of 9 -10 dB even at 10-20 cm" -- is not possible with any noise-generating components in a PC. You need a computer with no moving parts for this.

Below 10 dB is audible, but extremely quiet. The theoretical reference is that 0 dB is inaudible... to human beings. But because there is always some noise in the background, you don't need a 0 dB computer for it to be inaudible.

The simple solution is to put the computer farther away. A tower ATX case is best placed on the floor, and if it is under your desk, the desk will help block the noise from your ears.

My own PC measures ~15 dBA @ 1m -- I am sure I can sleep in the same room as long as my head is at least a meter away from the PC.

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Thanks so much for the availability, and kuzzia mikec

It is true, the Thermalright Macho has a fan running at 900-1300, but I intend to keep it off, I turn to the limit at low rpm only in case of emergency

In the PC I want to keep only two NOISEBLOCKER m s2 12 to 500 rpm, placed on the case

Actually I had considered the case as proof the Fractal Design Define R3 and 'Antec Solo II, this is the problem, these houses are very close, with a seasonic x460 and two NOISEBLOCKER s2 m12 to 500 rpm, with a full PC load temperatures will be very high ?

If I increase the rpm of the fans, or add more fans, for temperatures lower to be useless. Homes with a round hole that I think even with low temperatures the fans to a minimum.

I have no idea what the best solution ?

- Case closed that reduces noise, with temperatures a little higher

- Open houses, drilled, with low temperatures, but probably the noisiest

In this regard I have seen this chart : http://www.bitsandchips.it/recensioni/9 ... l=&start=4

In the PC I have to install a panel VDF, a burner, and a rheobus, so I need 3 bay free external 5.25-, sound-proof homes between what is best for 'Antec Solo II, but lacking a bay as I do ? other houses with the front panel does not go well.

Yes, I need the hard drive, but I'm going to buy it later. I think they are quieter than those at 5400 rpm.

I thought that below 10 decibels, even a few centimeters, for 'man could not hear anything. When you start to feel nothing 6-7 decibels ? Maybe I groped with one fan to reach the 'target PC inaudible to 20 cm ?

In the configuration, the only moving parts are the two fans, a big well-ventilated houses can be groped to switch them off ?

The PC I have to put next to the desk, for 'height of the table, otherwise if I put a panel VDF bed covers the range of the remote control. The room is small PC is 1 meter and 50 cm from my head.

THE point is this the night I do not need a PC quiet while I sleep I do not feel its presence, otherwise it is useless, from on to off there should be no difference, then during the day if I feel something of little importance.

I watched these two configurations: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1223-page3.html , says that sitting in the desk with the computer at idle, it's hard to tell if your computer is on or off. In practice makes the same noise of a PC with no moving parts. Here I want to achieve this result in full-load.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:55 pm 
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The ambient noise level of most "quiet" rooms is probably 15 db or more. I would be money that your room has an ambient noise level of least 25 db, and higher if air conditioning or forced hot air heating is turned on. This doesn't consider any outside noises like traffic, etc. Your body (breathing, heart beat, etc) will produce more than 10 db of noise to your ears (which is obviously not 1 meter away).

However, based on your goal of a very quiet PC, I would put the PC in a closet or room next door, and then run some long cables for the monitor, USB keyboard/mouse (or wireless), USB DVD/CD player, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:13 pm 
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marck120 wrote:
I thought the goal of 9 -10 dB even at 10-20 cm, the distance between me and the computer while sitting in a desk.
How loud is the ambient noise of your room?

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:46 pm 
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I don't get this talk about dB this and dB that. It's interesting for a site lite SPCR that does testig - we need a reliable number to be able to compare different products. But for a person just putting together a computer it's not very interesting imo. Especially not today, when a single fan (maybe two) is enough for a non-gaming system.

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:50 am 
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Thanks so much for the availability and explanations

@m0002a , @ces, @Vicotnik

I have no idea what the noise floor of my room, I have no instruments to make measurements, unfortunately I can give you some data.

I live in a country, the night with the windows closed I can not hear any noise coming from 'outside, before falling asleep I turn around, I feel just the classic ringing in the ears that comes when silence is total.

Unfortunately I have no chance to enter the PC behind cabinet doors or in other rooms, in front of my bed I have a free part, where the desk and tv cabinet, in practice I put the PC between the TV table and desk I have to raise the floor so that PC via a remote control can control the PC, the computer I use it mainly for multimedia use, in practice it becomes a kind of HTPC.

The distance from my head to the pc and about 1 meter and 60 cm, though at this distance while I sleep, with PCs in full-load, I can not hear, then my goal is reached. As I said the critical moment is the night, should I become aware if the PC has access only by checking the LEDs of the case, if you feel its presence even in the room because of a tiny hiss or buzz my goal has failed.

To realize this project which houses do you recommend ?

If the configuration that I wrote did not go well, you Advise me please, a hardware configuration even more silent. Some I have seen systems that have made ​​inaudible by a single fan.

Whereas to cool the system, I only have two NOISEBLOCKER s2 m12 adjusted to 500 rpm, and the seasonic x460, being fanless needs fresh air

In front I need three free 5.25 bay, to enter burner, panel VDF and rheobus


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 6:10 am 
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Hi, I confirmed for the choice of homes ? What is the most ventilated houses and silent absolute ?

With two fans at 500 rpm, I would not risk burning components.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 6:47 am 
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marck120 wrote:
Hi, I confirmed for the choice of homes ? What is the most ventilated houses and silent absolute ?

These are confusing questions. What is a home?
Quote:
With two fans at 500 rpm, I would not risk burning components.

It really depends on many things -- the thermal load, the ambient temperature, the case details. 500rpm with a quiet fan is inaudible... but it also moves very little air, some fans struggle to run at this low a speed. You spoke originally of getting super low noise even at full load, but never mentioned any component details. Depending on that load, you could see throttling and too-high temperatures on the VRMs, but then again, it might be fine.

Again, no one can advise you with any details when you don't provide those details.

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 6:50 am 
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marck120 wrote:
The distance from my head to the pc and about 1 meter and 60 cm, though at this distance while I sleep, with PCs in full-load, I can not hear, then my goal is reached.
I don't think you'll need a system that measures 8-9dBA @ 1m to accomplish that goal. I'd say that if you're system measures 15dBA @ 1m then it will be effectively silent at 1.6m, even late at night.

I would guess that my system measures around 17-18dbA @ 1m (based on measurements of the components I used measured here at SPCR) and I cannot hear it while sleeping ~1.5m away with the exception of a very faint chirping during hard drive activity.

MikeC wrote:
marck120 wrote:
Hi, I confirmed for the choice of homes ? What is the most ventilated houses and silent absolute ?

These are confusing questions. What is a home?
I think the OP is using a translator and means case or enclosure when they say home.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:02 am 
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@MikeC ,@Falkon

Thanks for the answers, you were very kind

Excuse me for the 'English, the case is the cabinet of the PC: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article75-page5.html

The exact components of the PC are these:

PSU: Seasonic x460

Mobo: GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3

CPU: i5 Sandy Bridge

Hard disk: Crucial M4

Cooler: Thermalright HR-02 macho

Ram: Corsair DDR3 (2x2GB)

Writer: sony optiarc

Fans: Two NOISEBLOCKER m s2 12

Two TV tuners:

Satellite Tuner: S464: http://www.tevii.com/Products_S464_1.asp

DTT Tuner: Dual HD Cynergy: http://www.terratec.it/prodotti/tv/Cine ... al_HD.html

Panel VDF: http://www.soundgraph.com/vfd-feature-en/

Video Card: http://www.asus.it/Graphics_Cards/NVIDI ... TDI1GD3LP/

This is the complete list of components, the ATI video card maybe I'll take it, but always on a low-to mid-range and always fanless.

In my room in the middle of summer arrive even at 30 degrees centigrade.

It is true, two fans at 500 rpm, move very little air, because I too am concerned about the temperatures, the fans about which ones work best at low rpm ? NOISEBLOCKER M12 S1 or NOISEBLOCKER m12 S2 ?

Yes, definitely a pc that produces 15dBA at night I can not hear, because there are'm trying to get the least possible number of decibels ,at least I'm comfortable.

Please let me know what is the cabinet adapted for this project.

If you need more information ask me.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:36 am 
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marck120 wrote:
Mobo: GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3

You may wish to consider one of the Asus Z77 motherboards with Fan Xpert 2 support which will give you maximum control over the cooling fans. The Asus P8Z77-V is more expensive than the GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 but the extra investment could be worth it.

marck120 wrote:
Fans: Two NOISEBLOCKER m s2 12

I would suggest two Noctua NF-P12 PWM fans, which have a 300 to 1300 speed range. Using the Asus BIOS controls and/or the Fan Xpert 2 software you will be able to balance the CPU and system temperatures against fan speed and noise. I have two of the NF-P12 PWM fans and they make no detectable noise up to around 700 rpm. Given cooler conditons such as at night the NF-P12 can run as low as 300 rpm.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:27 am 
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Thanks for the advice, very nice, mobo, Asus P8Z77 is great, but I said that asus will produce more heat, I do not know if you get there with the budget, in fact I'm thinking you replace the CPU with an i3, at least it is more fresh.

Regarding the fans, the problem is that the Noctua NF-P12 PWM even at 700 rpm deliver more decidel in comparison to NOISEBLOCKER: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=prod ... g=en&set=1, perhaps even the 12 m NOISEBLOCKER S2 is fine, has a start-up too high, at 500 rpm there is a risk that does not start, instead NOISEBLOCKER m 12 s1 has a minimum of 250 rpm.Qui there are tests: http :/ / http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensi ... ml?start=2

We only hope that the two fans at low rpm are sufficient for cooling the system.

For the cabinet of the PC what is your advice ?


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:14 pm 
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marck120 wrote:
For the cabinet of the PC what is your advice ?

Forse mi sbaglio, ma secondo me stai sbagliando tu impostazione.

Per quella che è la mia esperienza, il PC silenzioso è un processo di adattamento, non una somma di parti: difficilmente si può pensare di ottenere al primo colpo un sistema realmente "silenzioso" semplicemente scegliendo dei componenti sulla carta.

Per es. ti posso dire che (a parte che qualunque ventola da 12 a 700 giri è udibilissima, poco o per niente fastidiosa a seconda del modello, forse, ma udibilissima) una volta che avrai ottenuto un sistema con pochissimo rumore meccanico, sentirai di colpo tutto il rumore elettronico.

In definitiva secondo me prima devi scegliere il livello di prestazioni del PC e le applicazioni che vi gireranno, e solo dopo provare ad ottimizzarlo per la maggiore quiete possibile.

---------- english version ----------

Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I know you're following a wrong approach to your quest.

In my experience, a quiet PC is a developing process, not just a sum of parts: you can hardly think of getting at first shot a truly "silent PC" just choosing the components by their specs and/or by some not directly comparable reviews.

Just to say (apart that any 120mm fan @ 700 rpm is plainly audible, probably as a little or not at all annoying: maybe your mileage may vary by the exact model, but they will be plainly audible at that speed), once you've got a system with a very low mechanical noise, then you will suddenly feel the electronic noise (which can be fairly annoying in some cases).

Eventually I think that - first of all - you have to choose the PC performance level with reference to the real applications which it will run, and just then you have to try to optimize it to be as quiet as possible.

---------- english version ----------

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Last edited by quest_for_silence on Sat May 26, 2012 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Grazie mille per i consigli ,parlare in italiano è un sollievo

Sono un pò spiazzato ,nel senso che sono al punto di partenza , mi spiegavi che due ventole a 500 rpm si sentono comunque ,a questo punto come posso risolvere ?

I componenti meccanici che fanno rumore in un pc sono l'alimentatore le ventole e l'hard disk ,io ho scelto il meglio che c'è in commercio come silenziosità ,più di questo non posso fare , putroppo non ho possibilità di eseguire dei test personali ,ma leggo le recensioni e sopratutto faccio riferimento ai progetti e le esperienze degli altri utenti

Se riesco ad' eliminare tutto il rumore meccanico sono apposto ,il mio obbiettivo è raggiunto ,il rumore elettronico penso sia impossibile da eliminare ,anche i fanless senza parti in movimento emettono il rumore elettronico .

Per il livello di prestazioni è molto semplice ,ho un i3 ho un i5 ,come sistema operativo devo installare windows 7 ,i software che utilizzo maggiormente sono mediaportal ,avidemux Prog dvb ,Dvbviewer ,DVDB Dream ,Corel DVD MovieFctory , handbrake .

Dimmi tu cosa fare ,con un i3 potrei tentare un fanless totale cosa ne pensi ? Con un i5 se due ventole a 500 rpm si sentono non ho molte alternative .A me basta che non sento il pc seduto in scrivania e sopratutto mentre dormo a 1 metro e 50 cm .


ENGLISH

Thanks for the advice, speak Italian is a relief

I am a little unsettled, in the sense that they are the starting point, explaining it to me that two fans at 500 rpm you still feel, at this point how can I fix ?

The mechanical components that make noise in a PC are the power supply fans and hard drive, I chose the best in quiet trade as more of this I can not do, unfortunately I have no ability to run tests personal, but I read the reviews and I refer especially to the projects and experiences from other users

If I can 'eliminate all mechanical noise are affixed, my goal is reached, the electronic noise I think it is impossible to eliminate, even fanless with no moving parts emit electronic noise.

For the level of performance is very simple, I have a I have a i3 i5, how do I install windows 7 operating system, the software I use most is MediaPortal, avidemux, prog dvb, DVBViewer, DVDB Dream, Corel DVD MovieFctory, handbrake.

Tell me what to do, with a total i3 I groped a fanless What do you think ? With two fans if i5 to 500 rpm did not feel I have many alternatives. I just do not feel like sitting in the PC desktop, and especially when I sleep at 1 meter and 50 cm.


Last edited by marck120 on Fri May 25, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Luca & marck120,

While I can understand and appreciate why you are posting here in Italian, this is a public forum with simple rules, one of which is that English is the sole language to be used. If you provide translations inEnglish of the Italian, in this case, it will be allowed. Otherwise, back in English... or communicate w/ each other elsewhere in whatever language you choose.

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Mikec Sorry, I translate your post into English and can read all give me advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:46 am 
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I think you have to specify more precisely the performance you need.

As said - I think - by Vicotnik, for light loads (I mean desktop usage, mainly: office, browsing, skype, some photo editing, etc) a single fan is enough, nowadays: so how much heavy are your real loads?
Just for example, you named HandBrake: to do actually (usually) what?
So IMO you have to size your time limits at your favourite settings for your transcoding jobs.
If you currently don't know, then benchmarks or reviews can help: you may choose how many cores and how many threads you do need.

When you have those gross data, you may specify how many watts you would need: apart that a Super Flower FG-series or PE-series is probably a better choice than the X-460 today (for 20-30 euros more), but maybe (probably) you don't need 460W, nor a fanless PSU in order to have a quiet system.

I have a modded Delta-based Antec EarthWatts 380W (80mm straight in line fan) powering a 2-years old Pentium E5400 with a low end Nvidia card: that rig is a three fan system but so quiet that you can sleep with it, in spite of a naturally loud drive (a Scorpio Black).
But this system does a light job, it doesn't continuatively transcode/encode, nor you can use it for GPU folding with that PSU.
I'm talking about GPU folding because of my folding rig: its PSU (an Antec Signature) is currently under RMA, so I have had to back it up with a spare PSU, an Enermax ECO80+ 350W (120mm horizontal fan).
But such a PSU, even if it would be perfect for a nightly desktop usage (it is enough quiet at the same power level of the above quoted EA380), with a pair of GTX 460 @ folding to feed, it is actually spinning always at high speed: so it's noticeably louder than the EA, you can't sleep with this other rig.

Eventually, you have to pick a PSU which is near silent at your supposed power level (which derives from the performance level at your actual usage as above). And with just a Sandy Bridge and a couple of tuner I guess you shouldn't need more than 150W DC, so lots of good fanned PSU could be taken into account.

For SB, you don't need any low power part (-S, -T, etc): you just need a mobo with good undervolting options.
For the mobo, you don't need a low power mobo, but a mobo with a good BIOS for (undervolting and) fans management, and possibly one which is compatible with SpeedFan. Sometimes Gigabyte boards were not so good at fulfill those requirements, I guess far more times than ASUS, MSI or Intel: I don't know your proposed board, but check twice.

Another example: in your current specs it would look like that you swapped the Intel IGP with a Nvidia low end card. To do what?
It does matter as it's a fanless one with an inefficient heatsink (so more heat dumped in the system without any effective way to evacuate it).

Ambient temperature also matters: in Rome there are almost 30°C right now, and when the heat build up into a poorly ventilated enclosure (like the ones we used to like, here) such a temperature is a problem which cannot be addressed without introducing some more noise (fan).
Why a poorly ventilated enclosure? Because as a trend-line, providing there's not a vibrations issue, at any given power level the smaller and more sealed the enclosure may be, the easier it will be to work out a really quiet rig. But smaller enclosures lean towards running hotter, it's more difficult to work inside them, they hold lower thermal loads than bigger or more fanned ones, so if you don't do your homework you will likely need to add some airflow (more fan or raising the speed of the existing ones).
So which is your ambient temp? May it bias your working temps noticeably?

That is why in my "italian job" I defined a quiet PC sort of "developing process", and not a "fire and forget" tool.
Even if it may cost you more.
I know, it would be better to have the exact happiness recipe, but AFAIK no one has already written down it.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Last edited by quest_for_silence on Sat May 26, 2012 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:32 am 
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Location: ITALY
marck120 wrote:
I am a little unsettled, in the sense that they are the starting point, explaining it to me that two fans at 500 rpm you still feel, at this point how can I fix ?

500rpm is far lower than 700rpm quoted above, and noticeably less obtrusive: but as other people have said, you can't cool down so much with just 500rpm, usually much less than 700rpm. Just as an example, look at SPCR review of the Noctua D14: there is a 7°C difference running just the P12 fan at 570rpm rather than 680rpm.

However, more probably that not a pair of very slow fans on a massive heatsink can do a fair job on a dual core, but they can't help so much as intake or exhaust fans. I wouldn't advice for a fanless CPU heatsink, even with such a cool Sandy Bridge dual core.

If I were you, I would build the system without the enclosure and test it for a week or two in such a way.
When you have recorded more data about subjective noise and temp you may choose more comfortably a case.
Please take note that very often you can add some more fans at very low speed (rather than raising the existing fan speed) with less penalty, noise-wise.

marck120 wrote:
The mechanical components that make noise in a PC are the power supply fans and hard drive, I chose the best in quiet trade as more of this I can not do

This is what I call the wrong approach: it's not unusual that an overkill turns out to be disappointing for the effort.
But if you rather to do it, well, do it.

marck120 wrote:
Tell me what to do, with a total i3 I groped a fanless What do you think ? With two fans if i5 to 500 rpm did not feel I have many alternatives. I just do not feel like sitting in the PC desktop, and especially when I sleep at 1 meter and 50 cm.

Well, you have just to try as said above and in my other post.

Right now I'm running a Prime+FurMark on the Wolfdale system (mildly overclocked, 3,3GHz, and slightly undervolted at 1,17V) I've talked about in the other post: the two 120mm fan (a Scythe Slipstream on the CPU and a Kama Flow for exhaust, both PWM) are running around 740rpm, the 80mm PSU fan is running around 800rpm, all driven by SpeedFan.
Core Temp shows an about 54°C for the CPU, FurMark says 79°C for the GeForce 9300 (ambient 21°C, it's raining).

The system is inaudible now (20cm from my nose), but the fans noise will be fairly audible in the night under the same conditions, while not obtrusive. Can you stand it? I don't know but, again, you might try.

In my experience, while running the 120mm fans at about 500rpm and the 80mm PSU one around 650rpm, the relevant fans noise level would be far more acceptable at night: at these speeds the cores run around 60°C, but GPU temp doesn't stabilize under 90°C (at 92-94°C this system would reboot spontaneously).

Any i3 would be slightly better than this Core 2, about the i5 I don't know but I guess it can't do better when fully loaded (oced or not) as in the SPCR reviews it has a 10°C tax over the i3 temps.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:38 am 
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Modern computers can be put in a standby state in which the RAM is powered but all fans and drives shut down. Modern computers wake up from this state pretty fast.
So is it really worth the trouble to make a desktop computer inaudible even when you're trying to sleep?

And if you need <10 dB to sleep, how do you sleep when it rains? Most people sleep better with a soothing background noise anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:00 am 
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HFat wrote:
So is it really worth the trouble to make a desktop computer inaudible even when you're trying to sleep?

If I'm not wrong, I think he would like to leave his PC on encoding (or another time-consuming task) all night long.
I'm not used to do that, but maybe it could prove a bit challenging to achieve (at least if you need some high performance).

_________________
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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:01 am 
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@quest_for_silence

First of all thank you for the very detailed explanations and availability you have been very kind.

Excuse me if I answer a little late.

I answer them in order, I state that I currently have a satellite receiver, which records in TS format, in turn, the PC I run different video conversions in avi format, I do not do video conversions every day, about three times a week, handbrake is just a program for video conversion, http://handbrake.fr/, sometimes I do some video editing software with video edit magic, sometimes I create dvd software Corel DVD MovieFactory, programs and codecs they use a lot because I always new experiments, in practice with the PC do a bit of everything, the night I use a lot for watching movies with MediaPortal, when the system is completed and installed both TV tuners, the task is to record the PC, and convert the recordings in compressed format. Then I use the PC much even surf the internet eg.

In fact, I advised a processor i5 because it is more powerful and helps in video coding. But if a i5 is not adequate to accommodate the system inudubile, I'll settle for a CPU i3.

To calculate the wattage that I need I used this site: http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp, the result was a consumption of about 364 watts and I suggested a power of 460 watts.

Regarding the motherboard, the gigabyte I had chosen not know is compatible with SpeedFan: http://it.gigabyte.com/products/page/mb ... /overview/, if Asus has a management Advise the fans better then a model that you feel are most appropriate, always around the price range of gigabytes.

The video card I need simply to manage the channels and FULL-HD video files like avi. So even a low end video card I think it will be fine

For the discussion of the temperature 30 degrees is just the peak, in the middle of summer when there are waves of African heat, now in my room there are 23 degrees. When the heat is unbearable that I turn on a fan in the ceiling, are the fans that also function as a chandelier.

If two fans kept at 500 rpm are not enough to cool the system at this point it is better to buy a case with better ventilation as possible what you think ? at least the components are raffredati from 'outside air. The important thing is to get the temperatures are normal. Some users of the big houses are open, without side panels, also held an i7 without fans.

I'm explaining it to your system (with the power to 650 rpm, and the fan 120 to 500 rpm) at 20 cm during the day but the night is almost impertettibile feel ? So basically make a pc inaudible even at 1 meter is impossible ? But fanless with no moving parts with a processor i3 is possible?

The sink was born macho to dissipate large amount of watts, with damage to the heat sink is also a fan: http://www.thermalright.com/products/?act=data&id=178 during the coding if temperatures rise I turn the fan manually, but the night I keep it turned off.

During the night I do not want a PC quiet and peaceful but I do not feel it's useless for anything else, if I feel something is over the purpose of my project.

At this point, please write me your hardware configuration that you deem appropriate ? Including the cabinet, I want to buy houses, so even if I do the tests, the homes at the end I have to buy anyway.

HFat

But with the comuper Statto in waiting, you can convert video or you can leave the PC overnight to download files?

I try to explain, I do not want to get a PC that develops strength less than 10 decibels, but my goal is to make a PC that does not feel at all, I do not have to become aware of its presence in the room, especially during the night while I sleep . For the rain, unfortunately we can not do anything, but if your PC is better I can make it inaudible. According to you how many decibels would be inaudible to develop ?


Last edited by marck120 on Sun May 27, 2012 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:47 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
HFat wrote:
So is it really worth the trouble to make a desktop computer inaudible even when you're trying to sleep?

If I'm not wrong, I think he would like to leave his PC on encoding (or another time-consuming task) all night long.
I'm not used to do that, but maybe it could prove a bit challenging to achieve (at least if you need some high performance).


Yes the idea was to leave the PC turned on at night, making video codes.

With your help I'm sure I can do the project. Maybe with one processor i5 is very difficult to bet on a better cpu i3 ?

The biggest problem of course is the temperature, the two tuner and the video card heat source.

A job like this might work ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqoqn-0d ... ature=plcp

Here are the test temperatures with a fanless i5: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/syst ... _review/10

Maybe I could do it this way, buying a house open as possible, i3 processor, fanless keep the night to use forklift (with the fans off), and during the day to enable the fan to 700 rpm, the coding of video maybe I can do during the day. What do you think ?


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 4:33 pm 
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Location: Switzerland
With an appropriate heatsink and underclocking, you can run any modern Intel CPU without fans.
But whatever CPU you pick, mainstream desktop components gets quite hot without any fans, especially if you're not going to use a proper fanless case with heatpipes connecting the case to the CPU heatsink.

If you need multithreaded performance, you should get lower temperatures with an underclocked quad-core (what you mistakenly call i5) than a powerful dual-core (i3).

marck120 wrote:
the coding of video maybe I can do during the day.

In that case you can put your computer on standby when you want to sleep.
All you need is a separate NAS or small server (it's easy and cheap to build a fanless Atom server in case you need to put it where you sleep) for downloading.
Problem solved. And you'll save some electricity.

Don't try to do everything with a single PC. A PC can't be powerful, affordable, cool and silent.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 1:18 am 
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Posts: 1176
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HFat wrote:
A PC can't be powerful, affordable, cool and silent.

Yes, that's particularly the case here because video encoding software like HandBrake will typically load a CPU 100% so the cooling demands on a system doing this for hours on end are going to be substantial. I note the comment from the SPCR review of the Ivy Bridge 3770 CPU review "...Running our synthetic CPUBurn/Prime95 stress test, the i7-3770K actually used less than the i7-2600K but in a real life stress test, video encoding with HandBrake, the Ivy Bridge processor used 8W more...". It might be possible to limit CPU temperatures by using a less powerful CPU such as the 3570T, but this would slow the encoding speed by a significant amount.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:23 am 
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@HFat , @lodestar


Thanks so much for the availability

Yes I agree with you, unfortunately you can not have a PC at the same time fresh and powerful, I must go down to force a compromise.

At this point from what you tell me you have two possibilities, I have a quad-core i5 with an underclocked, or a 35 watt dual core i3, which is the best solution ?

During the coding, when I use HandBrake, I turn the two fans at 700 rpm.

Duarante the night, however, with MediaPortal to watch a movie or surf the fans turn out to cool all the internal components but as motherboard, video card, TV tuner, hard disk, etc. .. I thought to use a cabinet with big grills so that cool air enters at 'internal computer, in this way can it work ? I thought these houses possible, if not good Advise me the right one for you

Dragon Rider: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1208-page1.html

Corsair Carbide 500R: http://www.bitsandchips.it/recensioni/9 ... nco-e-nero

corsair carbide 600t: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews ... hite/5.htm

Cooler Master HAF 932: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews ... _932/5.htm

The processor has 3570T unfortunately too expensive, it costs about 220 euros, the fanless nas atom to watch and download files is perfect, but right now I do not have the economic means to assemble both the Atom NAS to the PC, the priority is on the main pc that I use every day, my pentium 4 is obsolete now and I want to replace it.

But with the PC in standbay you can browse and watch movies ?


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:32 am 
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Location: Switzerland
I don't understand. Do you want other people to watch movies from your computer while you sleep?
If you're talking about watching files on a TV in another room, you can run a DLNA server on an Atom NAS for instance. It works fine but obviously you can only access the content of the drives connected to that NAS.

I'm not sure you realize a fanless Atom NAS with a limited amount of storage for downloading 24/7 is very cheap. You could afford one with the price difference between the CPUs you're considering.
If on the other hand you need a big NAS, the cost would of course be higher. But it could be a good investment in the long run: the less hard drives you have in your main PC, the less noisy it'll be.

I don't want to say that what you want to do is impossible.
But consider this: if you have a large open case which would be ideal for fanless cooling if you have several hard drives and cards (tuner and so on), there will be next to nothing to protect you from the noise of the drives as well as any electronic noise. If the PC is downloading 24/7, at least one drive will need to keep spinning and seeking the whole night. This would be a lot more noisy than many low-speed fans! Are you thinking about using an SSD for your OS and cheap USB Flash drives for the downloaded content?
I think the quality of the noise would also be a problem (at equal loudness, I'd much rather sleep with the noise of a good fan than a seeking drive).

One last time: a quad-core can give you better performance than a dual-core for multi-threaded applications, especially if this choice allows you to buy an Ivy Bridge (you don't need to choose an expensive T model).
The main disadvantages are the cost of the CPU and the added complications involved in underclocking. So if you don't actually need particularly strong multi-threaded performance, get a dual-core. Even a 35 euro Sandy Bridge dual-core would be much better than a Pentium 4! And the cheap Sandy Bridge dual-cores are easy to cool.

Also one last time: i5 is merely a marketing designation. There are i5-branded dual-cores. Buyer beware!

Luca, can you tell us if you spot any additional misunderstanding due to poor Italian/English translations? Thanks.


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