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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:07 am 
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HFat wrote:
marck120 wrote:
However the important thing is not to exceed 55 degrees at full-load.

People are weird about temperatures.
I don't want to be insulting but are you kidding? It's hard enough to do that with slow fans!

The only way to accomplish that goal without watercooling or fans is:
-to use a weak low-power CPU like the Atom N2800
-to use a special-purpose case with heatpipes or direct contact to transmit heat between the CPU and the whole case
-no external obstruction to the dissipation of heat from the case
-moderate ambient temperature
You need ALL FOUR factors. Not one or two.

You have NO HOPE IN HELL of reliably keeping a Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge desktop CPU under 55C with any of the fanless cooling strategies you've considered, even if you were to underclock so much that as to make the CPU weaker than the 35 euros Celeron you groundlessly disdain.
No amount of spending on gimmicky cases will help.
*grumbles*


Maybe I explained badly, I referred to 55 degrees because I read in the table, I think this was the temperature not to exceed

I do not know what the critical temperature should never exceed that.

My goal is just to keep the temperatures in the standard (I do not know what the ideal temperature), so that the components last a lifetime

-During the day, the common use of computer, surfing, watching movies etc. .. I can also set the fan at 600 -700 rpm

-During the coding of video, rather than increase the fan's rpm (750 rpm for noiiseblocker ms1 and about 1200 for s2)

-The night, however I am interested in the absolute silence, the computer I use to navigate the night and especially for watching movies, now I do not know if the tv tuner exploit excessively the cpu ? The night the PC must be a tomb, so I have to decrease the two fans at 500 rpm, and hoping they do not feel that the temperatures remain normal.

Ideally, you should always keep the fans at 500 rpm (at least not have to stay every second by adjusting the fans, also because it would be annoying), and maintain acceptable temperatures, even when I do the coding of video, but I think this is impossible ?

Homes with a slightly more open, maybe even with the fan at low rpm, I'd have some degree less, and perhaps with the PC in full-load, I could keep the fans at 500 rpm while keeping the temperatures are normal.

Regarding the Asus mobo, if not let me set the exact rpm is useless, instead I am forced to 'buy the controllers.

About the noisebloicker, the model comes only s1 at 750 rpm, I hope that when enough encodings.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:25 am 
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Location: Switzerland
There are common boards which are rated for operation at 55C *ambient* for crying out loud!

rule of thumb: people are clueless
rule of thumb: people pontificate on the Internet

You want reliability information?
Ask professionals paid to provide it to you such as the engineers of your board's manufacturer, the designers of your case or people who published studies. Believe no one else!
Here's a few trustworthy links:
intel.com
logicsupply.com
scholar.google.com

If you dream up your own build based on what you're told on a forum, do NOT expect it to be reliable, no matter how low the temperatures the hardware reports are. The sensors are typically not located on the parts most likely to fail from overheating.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:33 am 
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Location: ITALY
marck120 wrote:
I do not know what the critical temperature should never exceed that.

My goal is just to keep the temperatures in the standard (I do not know what the ideal temperature), so that the components last a lifetime

AFAIK nobody knows it: it depends.

As a rule of thumb, with Intel chips any Tj over 80°-85°C is way high (the Tj is the "internal" temp of the CPU) and not compatible with normal operations, not to mention an "always on" PC.

Ideally you should be relatively satisfied if your Ivy Bridge CPU can run at full load with its Tj around 65°C: but usually to do so you have to run two fans on an high performance heatsink like a Phanteks, at a moderate to high speed (around 1000rpm and up).

And you still don't know if you are safely operating. Just a little experience of mine: those two GTX 460s folding on the Phenom are rated at 104°C, IIRC. But I can assure you that if I let them going over about 75°C, the system will go intro troubles.

marck120 wrote:
-During the day, the common use of computer, surfing, watching movies etc. .. I can also set the fan at 600 -700 rpm

For web surfing in my experience even 3-400rpm could suffice, even with flash videos and the like.

marck120 wrote:
-The night, however I am interested in the absolute silence, the computer I use to navigate the night and especially for watching movies,

While watching movie at night, in my experience a couple of fan running at 6-700rpm should be about inaudible, and probably even a 500rpm speed might be enough.

marck120 wrote:
now I do not know if the tv tuner exploit excessively the cpu ? The night the PC must be a tomb, so I have to decrease the two fans at 500 rpm, and hoping they do not feel that the temperatures remain normal.

I wouldn't be really worried about that, but you have just to try.

marck120 wrote:
Ideally, you should always keep the fans at 500 rpm (at least not have to stay every second by adjusting the fans, also because it would be annoying), and maintain acceptable temperatures, even when I do the coding of video, but I think this is impossible ?

It might be not possible but, again, you have just to try.

marck120 wrote:
Homes with a slightly more open, maybe even with the fan at low rpm, I'd have some degree less, and perhaps with the PC in full-load, I could keep the fans at 500 rpm while keeping the temperatures are normal.

A more open enclosure can help, but that's usually not possible, IME.

marck120 wrote:
Regarding the Asus mobo, if not let me set the exact rpm is useless, instead I am forced to 'buy the controllers.

If you're worried about that, IMO it's better to ask to NoiseBlocker which controllers can surely stop their fans.
At any rate, I think that you're too much worried about this aspect: in order to have an inaudible system (at night), IMHO you don't need to stop its fans.

marck120 wrote:
About the noisebloicker, the model comes only s1 at 750 rpm, I hope that when enough encodings.

Hm, it looks like another bad translation: I mean that you already know, but there are also the S2, the PL2 (but which more unlikely will stop completely, with reference to the S1).

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:40 am 
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HFat wrote:
rule of thumb: people are clueless
rule of thumb: people pontificate on the Internet

If I may take the liberty, HFat: I think he could be a teen (or nearby).
So, providing he doesn't well understand the english language, do not expect he can learn your (somewhat harsh) lesson.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:49 am 
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Posts: 28
Italiano

Ti ringrazio per la lunga spiegazione, magari fossero tutte così le risposte nei forum ,davvero bravo , ti faccio i complimenti ,sei molto preparato e non lasci niente al caso ,studi tutto nei minimi particolari ,a me è cosi che piace lavorare .

Riguardo il Fan Expert forse mi permette di impostare una velocità fissa proprio piacimento :

Image

Sperò che questa impostazione venga mantenuta anche al riavvio del pc ? , .Le altre regolazioni come mi spiegavi ho visto che sono tutte in base ha un percentuale di rpm e temparature ,si capisco che d'altronde in questo modo è molto più sicuro .

Si ,sono d'accordo non è possibile paragonare un sistema con un 'altro ,è impossibile anche avere dei dati precisi e prevedere i risultati ,l'unica soluzione indubiamente è fare dei test .

Riguardo la ventola mi dicevi che è preferibile acquistarne una che và da 300 -fino a 1200 rpm ,la noiseblocker s2 putroppo parte solo da 460 rpm e arriva a 1200 ,secondo te a 500 rpm si avvia senza problemi ? Invece la s1 è parte facilmente a rpm più bassi però come dicevo ha massimo di soli 750 rpm ,se poi non mi bastano è un problema .

Per il discorso del case ci sono anche dei case che non sono totalmente aperti ,ma sono una via di mezzo ,cioè attutiscono i rumori e allo stesso tempo sono più areati dei casi completamente chiusi come può essere l'antec solo 2 ,ad'esempio guarda questo grafico ,il Corsair Carbide 500 r con le ventole a minimo è silenzioso quasi quanto il fratacal Design R3 ,mantenendo però temparature più basse :

http://www.bitsandchips.it/recensioni/9 ... l=&start=4

Image

Image

Come mi spiegavi ovviamente questi test sono fatti con dei componenti diversi e quindi non si possono paragonare al mio sitema ,però danno l'idea di come si può comportare un case

Ad'esempio qui invece il Fragon Rider che è lo stesso un case molto aperto ha gli stessi decibel dell 'Antec p280 :

Image

L'antec solo 2 comunque dai test che ho visto si comporta molto bene : http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1218-page6.html ,

Ma secondo te l'affermazione che fanno su questo test è vera ? Dicono che seduti in scrivania a 30 cm non si riesce a capire se il pc è spento acceso ,in idle ovviamente ,il sistema è silenzioso quanto un sistema fanless : http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1223-page3.html

Questo è quello c'è scritto :

Even with all its performance, the Serenity Mni bears comparison with PCs that have no moving part some of them will actually have more electronic noise (high pitched, sometimes intermittent whine) than the Serenity Mini. Puget's SPCR-certified Serenity Mini is another well-crafted high performance computer at the very limits of silent computing

Io me basta abbassare la ventola quel tanto che basta affiche la notte mentre dormo risulti inudibile e le temperature restino nella norma .Certo se ottengo lo stesso risultato anche in full-load del Puget Serenity SPCR Edition PC (v.3) anche il full-load sarebbe il massimo ,secondo te c'è la posso fare ?


TRANSLATION IN ENGLISH:

Thank you for the long explanation, so maybe they were all the answers in the forum, really good, I congratulate you, you are very prepared and did not leave anything to chance, study everything in detail, so that to me is like working.

About the Expert Fan maybe I can set a fixed rate will:

Image

He hoped that this setting is maintained even when you restart your pc? . Other settings like explaining it to me I saw that they are all based on rpm and has a percentage of temparature, you understand that, moreover, in this way is much safer.

Yes, I agree you can not compare a system with an 'other, it is also impossible to have accurate data and predict results, the only solution is to indubiamente test.

Regarding the fan told me that it is better to buy one that goes from 300-up to 1200 rpm, the NOISEBLOCKER s2 unfortunately the only 460 rpm and arrives in 1200, according to you at 500 rpm starts without problems ? Instead, s1 is easily the lowest rpm but as I said has a maximum of only 750 rpm, and then not enough for me to be a problem.

For the discussion of the case there are also houses that are not fully open, but something in between, that is, absorb noise and at the same time they are aired more cases can be completely closed as the antec only 2, ad'esempio look at this chart, the Corsair Carbide 500 r with the fans at minimum is almost silent as the fratacal Design R3, while maintaining lower temparature:

Image

Image

Explaining it to me as obviously these tests are made of different components and therefore can not compare to my sitema, however, give an idea of ​​how it can lead to a case

Ad'esempio Fragon Rider instead this is the same that a case has opened a lot of the same decibel 'Antec P280:

Image

The antec however, only 2 from the tests that I have seen does very well: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1218-page6.html,

But do you make of the claim that this test is true? They say that sitting in desks to 30 cm can not tell if the PC is switched off, idle, of course, the system is quiet as a fanless system: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1223-page3.html

This is what it says:


Even with all its performance, the Serenity Mni bears comparison with PCs that have no moving part some of them will actually have more electronic noise (high pitched, sometimes intermittent whine) than the Serenity Mini. Puget's SPCR-certified Serenity Mini is another well-crafted high performance computer at the very limits of silent computing

I myself, you take down the fan just enough posters showing the night while I sleep inaudible and the temperatures remain normal. Of course if I get the same result at full-load of Puget Serenity SPCR Edition PC (v.3), even the full- load would be the most, according to you is can I do ?


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Posts: 1730
Location: Switzerland
quest_for_silence wrote:
do not expect he can learn your (somewhat harsh) lesson.

Then use the local curmudgeon's "lesson" yourself, if I may take the liberty.

Seriously, there's no computer that's cheap, quiet, powerful and reliable.
People here typically sacrifice reliability first. They like to (re)build rigs and computer gear lose value quickly anyway. They'll tell your build is not reliable because your CPU's temperature is "too high" while they're using expensive third-party heatsinks to block airflow to sensitive components and radiate the CPU's heat towards them. *grumbles*


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Posts: 28
After I read your post, so I should be satisfied to reach 65 degrees at full-load, we hope to succeed, 750 rpm at this point seem to me a few full-load, then the Phanteks can help me achieve a lower temperature, mode I think it's fanless heatsink pontente more macho ? even if it costs 80 euros, I do not know if it's worth.

Good of you to specify what was the Tj, because all 'beginning I did not realize what it was.

Certainly for all the other doubts that I do not just remains for me to try and

These are the temperatures of my pentium, I have 27 web pages open:

Image

Image

Image

In the cabinet there is not even a fan, there's only one fan on the heatsink, since I changed PSU is even worse. 'S original power within it had two fans positioned parallel operation, and then threw the hot air out , This new power supply has one 12 cm fan, but did not vent, I think the hot air is not thrown out of the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Location: ITALY
HFat wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
do not expect he can learn your (somewhat harsh) lesson.

Then use the local curmudgeon's "lesson" yourself, if I may take the liberty.

You don't have to worry about it: if I only know what curmudgeon's stands for... :wink:

HFat wrote:
Seriously, there's no computer that's cheap, quiet, powerful and reliable.
People here typically sacrifice reliability first. They like to (re)build rigs and computer gear lose value quickly anyway. They'll tell your build is not reliable because your CPU's temperature is "too high" while they're using expensive third-party heatsinks to block airflow to sensitive components and radiate the CPU's heat towards them. *grumbles*

We, the "enthusiasts", seldomly think as engineers: nevertheless I think we (slowly) learn a bit that "harsh" lesson (after some boards burnt, or some PSU failed).

_________________
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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:18 pm 
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marck120, you should be more concerned about HDD temps, they actually matter.

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Main: ASRock B85M-ITX | i3-4330 | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 730 240GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 13.9W
HTPC: ASRock H81M-ITX | Pentium G3420 | 4GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 11.2W
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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:22 pm 
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marck120 wrote:
He hoped that this setting is maintained even when you restart your pc?

It should be so.

marck120 wrote:
Regarding the fan told me that it is better to buy one that goes from 300-up to 1200 rpm, the NOISEBLOCKER s2 unfortunately the only 460 rpm and arrives in 1200, according to you at 500 rpm starts without problems ? Instead, s1 is easily the lowest rpm but as I said has a maximum of only 750 rpm, and then not enough for me to be a problem.

It has not headroom but, again, let's try. In case you could recycle those S1 strapping on the heatsinks (CPU and VGA).

marck120 wrote:
For the discussion of the case there are also houses that are not fully open, but something in between

They are a different trade off: if you aim at the maximum quietness achievable, then they are not for you. IMHO.
Moreover the data you linked are, IMVHO, totally meaningless, they are not suitable even for broadly speaking.

marck120 wrote:
Ad'esempio Fragon Rider instead this is the same that a case has opened a lot of the same decibel 'Antec P280

You're referring to CrossFireX systems, nothing comparable to your goal: and moreover those 33dB are unbearable loud at night!

marck120 wrote:
But do you make of the claim that this test is true?

Yes, I think it's true. And reasonable: some of my systems should give similar figures.
But those figures are not meant for a continuous service.

marck120 wrote:
I myself, you take down the fan just enough posters showing the night while I sleep inaudible and the temperatures remain normal. Of course if I get the same result at full-load of Puget Serenity SPCR Edition PC (v.3), even the full- load would be the most, according to you is can I do ?

As just said, those Pugets are not meant to be always on PCs: their temps are way high (76° on CPU, 63* on mobo...), unsustainable but not for an intermittent "amateur" service.
If you plan to run your new rig 24/7 I think such a system is not well suited.
If you don't stress it 20-30 hours a week, all the year long, then it will be much more doable, reliability-wise.


--------- an italian summary and considerations ---------

marck120 wrote:
Ti ringrazio per la lunga spiegazione, magari fossero tutte così le risposte nei forum

Guarda che qui in molti sono intervenuti, e tutti hanno cercato di aiutarti: anche HFat, non ti ha criticato e basta, è solo svizzero, svizzero "tedesco". E per di più, credo, un ingegnere: per lui tutto deve essere preciso, privo di difetti di ragionamento e ben regolato. Il contrario degli italiani, come approccio. A suo modo è anche simpatico. :wink:

marck120 wrote:
Sperò che questa impostazione venga mantenuta anche al riavvio del pc ?

Credo di si, non c'è nessun motivo per cui non debba esserlo.

marck120 wrote:
Le altre regolazioni come mi spiegavi ho visto che sono tutte in base ha un percentuale di rpm e temparature ,si capisco che d'altronde in questo modo è molto più sicuro .

No è che in generale i PC funzionano in quel modo: non vanno ad "impazzire" per inseguire una certa velocità di rotazione.
Possono invece variare in maniera precisa la tensione (o il duty cycle nei PWM), che poi corrisponderà ad una certa velocità (spesso non quella che volevi), con una certa variabilità da ventola a ventola.
Questo in generale: ora, come funzioni quella funzione di FanXpert 2 di cui sopra, o come si relazioni a quanto detto, non lo so.

marck120 wrote:
Riguardo la ventola mi dicevi che è preferibile acquistarne una che và da 300 -fino a 1200 rpm ,la noiseblocker s2 putroppo parte solo da 460 rpm e arriva a 1200 ,secondo te a 500 rpm si avvia senza problemi ? Invece la s1 è parte facilmente a rpm più bassi però come dicevo ha massimo di soli 750 rpm ,se poi non mi bastano è un problema .

Guarda, per riprendere il discorso in incipit: il problema è proprio che abbiamo voluto aiutarti.
Invece di lasciarti fare come in molti qui abbiamo fatto: compri i pezzi, e poi dici - "...ca##o, non funziona come pensavo...".

Io sono arrivato alle ventole da 1200-1500rpm partendo da quelle da 500rpm: fai la stessa cosa. Prendi la S1 e se non ce dovesse fare, amen, hai buttato 15-20 euro, e ricompri la S2. Ed hai fatto esperienza, che vale più delle mie parole, molto di più.

Io uso le Scythe perché le 1200rpm (a parte la variabilità dei singoli esemplari) scendono tranquillamente a 300-350rpm al minimo, "suonano bene", costano il giusto e durano abbastanza. Ma qualcuna anche no (per esempio la Ultra Kaze da 1000rpm). Un'altra buona scelta sono le Nexus bianche o arancioni: durano di meno (nel senso che tante volte iniziano a far rumore), ma costano anche un po' di meno. O anche certe Yate Loon a basso amperaggio. Ce ne sono tante, non "fissarti" sulle NoiseBlocker.

marck120 wrote:
Per il discorso del case ci sono anche dei case che non sono totalmente aperti ,ma sono una via di mezz

Lascia perdere quei test, sono totalmente campati per aria: sono pochissimi i siti di cui puoi fidarti per tali rilevazioni. SPCR, HT4U, forse Au-Ja!, già Cooling-Technique parrebbe lasciare un po' a desiderare (7dB "misurati", sul tavolo?), almeno per quel che ho capito delle loro misure.

Non parlo di comparazioni tra siti, dico che in assoluto sono "asignificativi": non vanno pertanto bene nemmeno per "avere l'idea di".

I case ventilati in generale vanno bene se devi fare un sistema potente ma a basso rumore, non se devi fare un PC praticamente silente.
Non puoi avere potenza e silenzio. Puoi avere dei compromessi, per di più da sperimentare caso per caso: per esempio non so che risultati dia un PC con 6-8 ventole a bassa velocità (3-500rpm), magari funziona, magari qui qualcuno l'ha fatto. Magari anche no.

Ed un'ultima cosa: non linkare immagini da siti esterni, i tizi dei siti esterni a volte potrebbero anche prendersela a male.
Visto che hai un account su ImagesHack, salva l'immagine e linka il sito di provenienza, è più corretto. IMHO.

marck120 wrote:
Ad'esempio qui invece il Fragon Rider che è lo stesso un case molto aperto ha gli stessi decibel dell 'Antec p280

Hai idea di quanti siano 33dB? Lì si parla di un CrossFireX, immagina il rumore di due GPU al massimo.
Già con ca. 20dB (ca. 20 volte di meno) faresti fatica a prendere sonno, in città.

marck120 wrote:
Ma secondo te l'affermazione che fanno su questo test è vera ? Dicono che seduti in scrivania a 30 cm non si riesce a capire se il pc è spento acceso ,in idle ovviamente ,il sistema è silenzioso quanto un sistema fanless

Si, è vera. Anche il sistema Wolfdale su base NSK3480 a cui ho accennato gira forse su quei valori: la notte sento solo il disco esterno, questo, ed a volte mi da pure fastidio (il fatto di sentirlo, non il rumore).
Ma per quello che ne capisco io, per la mia esperienza, non è un sistema fatto per restare sempre acceso, né per avere alte prestazioni in transcoding continuativamente.

marck120 wrote:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1057-page3.htmlIo me basta abbassare la ventola quel tanto che basta affiche la notte mentre dormo risulti inudibile e le temperature restino nella norma .Certo se ottengo lo stesso risultato anche in full-load del Puget Serenity SPCR Edition PC (v.3) anche il full-load sarebbe il massimo ,secondo te c'è la posso fare ?

Ma hai letto bene quei valori? 69-76°C sulla CPU/80-82°C sulla GPU/55-63°C sulla MB?
Hai letto come li hanno ottenuti? <<Measurements under load were recorded 60 minutes after the tests were started. This is an artificially long time for both CPU and GPU to be at full 100% load; it would hardly ever happen in actual use with real applications. >>
Soli 60 minuti? Tu stai parlando di lasciare il PC acceso sempre, di giorno quando non ci sei a fare transcoding, la sera a surfare, la notte a guardare film o simili.
E' vero che hai detto che lavorerebbe solo tre volte a settimana, ma siamo al limite, per quello che posso dire io.
So che forse non hai ben capito quanto ti ha detto HFat, ma non è fisicamente possibile funzionare bene a lungo a quelle temperature, prima o poi qualcosa si rompe: prima di quanto speri, e senza avvisare prima.

E poi quei 13dB a un metro corrispondono a 800rpm sulla CPU: li senti, te l'ho detto in inglese, probabilmente non ti daranno fastidio ma li senti tutti. Io li sento almeno.

--------- an italian summary and considerations ---------

_________________
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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:15 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
non è fisicamente possibile funzionare bene a lungo a quelle temperature, prima o poi qualcosa si rompe: prima di quanto speri, e senza avvisare prima.

In order not to offend Mike, I'll call BS in English.

Is there any evidence that could convince you you're wrong? If not, this might be a more appropriate venue: http://www.religiousforums.com

If you think I'm harsh, think about what your comment says about Puget and their business. You're not merely questioning the opinion of an anonymous poster.

Maybe my problem is that I've never lost a board due to overheating. And maybe that's only because I've been lucky. But that's certainly not because I avoid "quelle temperature" regardless of the specs.


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:53 pm 
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HFat wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
non è fisicamente possibile funzionare bene a lungo a quelle temperature, prima o poi qualcosa si rompe: prima di quanto speri, e senza avvisare prima.

In order not to offend Mike, I'll call BS in English.

Is there any evidence that could convince you you're wrong? If not, this might be a more appropriate venue: http://www.religiousforums.com

If you think I'm harsh, think about what your comment says about Puget and their business. You're not merely questioning the opinion of an anonymous poster.

Maybe my problem is that I've never lost a board due to overheating. And maybe that's only because I've been lucky. But that's certainly not because I avoid "quelle temperature" regardless of the specs.

I dont' understand what you're saying HFat, so I do not realize what the religious references actually mean: probably it would have been better if you had commented an english statement of mine, at least as some of my sentences and their context are a bit difficult to translate into English, if you don't speak well italian.

At any rate, I didn't think I've said anything negative about Puget Systems: mainly as I don't think anything negative about their business.

Summarizing, I've just meant that IMO ("per quello che ne capisco io, per la mia esperienza","per quello che posso dire io") marck120 cannot let a system like those (i.e. made of standard, commercial parts, rated at those specs we - the consumers - are used to know without restating them within each and every phrase) work 30hrs a week, all the year long, at 76°C on CPU (while being always on for the remaining 138hrs a week, 52 weeks a year) without going into troubles, sooner or later.
Is this opinion that negative? Well, if so, my sincere apologies to Puget Systems (and to MikeC, to any "Bachelor of Science" degree - it's the BS above, isn't it? :wink: - and also to you), I didn't mean to be harsh against anyone.

Eventually, in case you think these apologies are not acceptable, please use a PM.

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Regards,
Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:12 pm 
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Posts: 12023
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
The problem with this whole thread is that marck120 does not fully comprehend most comments, and we don't fully comprehend his. Naturally there's a lot of effort wasted just trying to communicate what are fairly simple concepts, and lots of non-sequitors, misinterpretations, wild goose chases, etc.

I will say this -- forum members have said everything (in English, anyway) marck120 needs to...

1) understand realistic goals regarding cooling, low noise and the implementation of his... wishes.
2) have several approaches to achieving those goals
3) and make adjustments to goals, expectations and/or practice after experimentation with some gear.

Hand-on experience (and probably more reading of SPCR core articles) by marck120 is necessary before this discussion can really progress any further.

I suggest everyone just back off and let marck120 make some choices and take some action and report back before we comment any further.

And marck120, don't bother asking any more questions like "Are 2 500rpm fans going to be cool and quiet enough?" any more. Only you can answer that with your ears & mind. No one here can give you any guarantee that their answer(s) will work for you like it worked for them.

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Mike Chin, SPCR Editor/Publisher
Support SPCR by buying your gear through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:26 am 
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Posts: 28
First thank you all for the availability you were very kind, and I thank you in particular quest_for_silence you helped me with translation into English


I wanted to clarify that they are not naive, otherwise I would not have done all these questions are very meticulous and I like to do things right, I also want a precise and perfect, I understand what I have explained, I know very well that no you can have a PC cool, powerful, quiet and economical, but I'm trying to find the right balance, I'm not going to spend over 700 euros for the members then throw a few months later, after spending the last for my pc many years. I also understand that nobody on the forum can give me the exact information that I will have temperatures? If I feel the fans? The only thing is to try the system and then improve it accordingly.

However I did not go against your advice, I followed them even to the point, the configuration that I scitto is what I have indicated, I have not changed.

Regarding the various tests we mentioned before, in my opinion the only site of all is your most reliable silentpcreview, in fact for making various measurements using professional tools.

No further technical questions from you because I have already explained, I wanted to ask you a final confirmation on the hardware configuration, confermani quest_for_silence too, if it is perfect or should I change something ? That you think is the right compromise between noise, power and temperatures ? Do you all agree? If a processor temperatures and quiet operation helps as i3, i3 and then choose a good night, I will have less power but patience.

If I change something tell me please, the final configuration is:

Case: Antec Solo 2

PSU: Seasonic x460

Mobo: Asus V-P8Z77

CPU: Intel Core i5 3450 Ivy Bridge 77w GPU BOX

SSD: 60GB Corsair Accelerator

HDD: Hitachi Z5K500

Cooler: Thermalright HR-02 macho

Ram: Corsair DDR3 (2x2GB)

Writer: sony optiarc

VGA: Sapphire HD 6670 Ultimate

Fan: two 12 m NOISEBLOCKER S1

Italian version


Prima cosa vi ringrazio tutti per la disponibilità siete stati gentilissimi ,e ringrazio te in particolare quest_for_silence che mi hai aiutato anche con la traduzione in inglese


Volevo precisare che non sono uno sprovveduto, altrimenti non vi avrei fatto tutte queste domande , sono molto meticoloso e mi piace fare le cose per bene ,anche io voglio un sistema preciso e perfetto ,capisco benissimo quello che mi avete spiegato ,sò benissimo che non si può avere un pc fresco ,potente ,silenzioso e economico ,ma sto cercando di trovare il giusto compromesso ,non ho intenzione di spendere oltre 700 euro per poi buttare i componenti qualche mese dopo ,dopo aver fatto la spesa il pc mi deve durare per tanti anni .Capisco anche che nessuno sul forum può darmi dei dati precisi ,che temperature avrò ? Se sentirò le ventole ? L'unica cosa è provare il sistema e poi migliorarlo di conseguenza .

Comunque non sono andato contro i vostri consigli ,anzi li ho seguiti alla lettera ,la configurazione che ho scitto è quella che mi avete indicato ,non l'ho cambiata .

Riguardo i vari test di cui abbiamo parlato prima ,secondo me l'unico sito più attendibile di tutti è proprio silentpcreview ,infatti per fare le varie misurazioni usa strumenti professionali .

Non ho altre domande tecniche da farvi perchè mi avete spiegato già tutto ,volevo chiedervi la conferma finale sulla configurazione hardware ,confermani anche tu quest_for_silence ,se è perfetta o devo cambiare qualcosa ? Cioè secondo voi è il giusto compromesso ,tra silenziosità ,potenza e temperature ? Siete tutti d'accordo ? Se un processore i3 aiuta come temperature e silenziosità ,allora scelgo un i3 e buona notte ,avro meno potenza ma pazienza .

Se devo cambiare qualcosa ditemelo per favore ,la configurazione finale è questa :

Case: Antec Solo 2

Alimentatore: Seasonic x460

Mobo: Asus P8Z77-V

CPU: Intel Core i5 3450 Ivy Bridge 77w GPU BOX

SSD: 60GB Corsair Accelerator

HDD: Hitachi Z5K500

Dissipatore : Thermalright HR-02 macho

Ram: Corsair DDR3 (2x2GB)

Masterizzatore : sony optiarc

VGA : Sapphire HD 6670 Ultimate

Ventole : two 12 m NOISEBLOCKER S1


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3233
Location: ITALY
marck120 wrote:
in particular quest_for_silence you helped me with translation into English

When and where? Maybe "indirectly"? Please pay attention to details like this, sometimes they may cause some misunderstandings.

At any rate, I will comment your last post by PM.

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Regards,
Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Project PC inaudible at full-load, aim 8 to 9 decibels
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:56 am 
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:47 am
Posts: 28
quest_for_silence wrote:
marck120 wrote:
in particular quest_for_silence you helped me with translation into English

When and where? Maybe "indirectly"? Please pay attention to details like this, sometimes they may cause some misunderstandings.

At any rate, I will comment your last post by PM.


I meant to write in Italian I've helped you understand a few phrases in English translated by google translator evil.

Intendevo dire che scrivendo in italiano mi hai aiutato a capire alcune frasi in inglese tradotte male da google traduttore .

For the configuration you give me a confirmation ? There is something to change ?


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