Mummy's had it with her ancient, Vista-ridden, glacially-slow-booting, swap-file-thrashing (etc!) Packard Bell laptop. At her 65th birthday I convinced her that I should build her something nice. Mummy likes organic food; she dislikes resource waste and pollution. She surfs the web, listens to internet radio, watches the Parliament's web tv channel, and, of course, she plays solitaire.

Mummy's stated 'technical' requirements are low power consumption, low noise, and decent audio. Price is not a major concern.

I'm thinking along these lines:

• Case: Lian Li PC-Q11A
• Power supply: Seasonic X-400
• Motherboard: Asus P8H77-I
• Processor & graphics: Intel Core i3-3220T
• Memory: 8 GB (brand etc. TBD)
• SSD: Samsung 830 Series 128 GB
• HDD: Western Digital Blue 2.5" 1 TB WD10JPVT (size TBD)
• CPU cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B
• DVD drive: TBD
• Monitor: Dell S2240L
• Keyboard & mouse TBD
• OS: Windows 7 Home Premium

This probably deserves a PicoPSU, but I'd have to buy it overseas. Lian Li states a maximum PSU length of 140 mm, but bit-tech.net managed to squeeze a Seasonic X-650 in there, so the X-400 should fit as well. 8 GB RAM is overkill, but it costs almost nothing. The HDD could probably be smaller. Mummy has a pair of Bang & Olufsen Beovox C75 which I intend to drive with a small integrated DAC/amp connected via TOSLINK.

Will Mummy approve?

Mummy told me she wants a 24" monitor.

Is this necessary if you already have a 120GB SSD? Unless there are lots of music/video/photos to store, I think it'd be easier to manage with just a single drive.

When it comes to building PCs for relatives, the question you have to ask is: How much do you like tech support?

While I have been building Windows-based computers for myself for years, I just wanted something bulletproof for my parents. I went with a Mac Mini for my mom some 6 years ago and it's been the most problem-free computer I've ever touched as well as low power, small footprint, and meets her (similar to your mom's) needs. If Apple ever gets around to releasing an i3 IVB version, that'll be the replacement.

IMO I would suggest updating to Win 7, it runs a lot better than Vista and as her needs are quite small then an i-3 would be a waste of cash IMO.

You should overthink it. It will work towards lower power consumption and lower noise. With a Pico PSU you have room for a Thermalright HR-02 Macho, which can cool the CPU passively. A 400W PSU is overkill for a system that will typically draw15W-20W. In this power range a Pico PSU has the best efficiency.
You can put a system with a Pico PSU in a Lian Li Q07. With a Silverstone front panel for a slim slot in drive and four 2.5" disks you can remove the hard drive bracket from the Q07 and put the power brick inside the case.
WD has a 2TB 2.5" drive for all your media storage needs.
If you want to drive good speakers buy a sound card.

m0002a, whose mummy are we talking about here?

The HDD not being needed is a very good point, lhopitalified. The only non-program files on her laptop are text documents. IIRC that Samsung 830 is about the size of her current HDD.

CA_Steve, does any sane person like tech support...? Really, though, I quite liked building my own machine, and most of my tech support for Mummy has been of the "why is it slow?" variety, much of which can be blamed on the age of her machine and especially the fact that it was low-end to begin with. Mummy is quite careful surfing the web, so malware has never been a problem. A Mac Mini or perhaps an iMac would be a great option, but I've sort of set my mind on doing it myself. I'll mention it for her, though. OSX would probably be a better OS for her than any version of Windows. Her first 2 computers were a Macintosh Plus and a Macintosh LC, by the way.

I agree with Mr Spocko that Windows 7 and another GB of RAM (and perhaps an SSD) probably would do wonders for her laptop, but she wants a desktop. She doesn't like the built-in keyboard and she's not too keen on the built-in screen, either, which leaves very little reason to keep the damn thing. As for wasting cash, I can see where you're coming from, but she just doesn't care. I should probably mention that a couple of large Flash ads will max out her single-core 1.4 GHz CPU and cause visible stuttering, so web browsing still won't be smooth even if every other bottleneck is removed from her current machine, and the ergonomic problems will persist.

boost, I really, really want a PicoPSU, but I'm just not quite comfortable spending another person's money in a shop that is not subject to Danish law. Mummy might not mind, though. I'll ask her. As for the sound card, I personally prefer using an external DAC for pc audio, and a local shop happens to sell a decent desktop amp with a built-in DAC.

If you know of a Danish retailer who sells PicoPSUs, I'm all ears.

Thanks for your advice, and by all means keep at it...

Another alternative is buy a cheap, but quiet laptop, and run it in clamshell mode (hooked up to an external keyboard, mouse, and monitor). Any of the dual core Pentiums or Trinity mobile variants fit the bill for her needs.

Laptops are great if you're OK with a small screens. Otherwise, not so much (unless perhaps you don't care about the price tag)...

My reco:
-a case with a budled fanless power supply (much cheaper than LianLi+X400!) like the Antec 110, possibly with a Kozuti or some other third-party cooler (most urban 65 year-olds could not hear the stock cooler anyway)
-a cheap H61 board or possibly something more current
-a G530 or possibly the cheapest Ivy
-an SSD
-possibly a USB DVD drive and/or a USB 2.5'' HD

edit: wait for Win 8; 8G of RAM may be cheap (not so much if you spend wisely) but it's not green!

Win 8 is awful most are predicting it's going to bomb worse than Vista.

Power Supply: You could save some money by buying a cheaper and still quiet PSU. You can buy a Nexus NX5000 (received Editor's choice some years ago) and save approx. 200 kr (30 USD perhaps). It's very quiet, and it's small too.

Processor: I think she'd be satisfied easily by a much cheaper CPU. None of the "technical requirements" require much more than a cheap Sandy Bridge dual-core CPU such as the Celeron G530. If you dislike the Celeron name than go for the Pentium G620 or similar.

Memory: 8 GB. Though overkill, it's way too cheap to say no.

HDD/SSD: If you choose a 128 GB SSD would you then need a secondary harddrive? If she does, will she need 128 GB for Windows + programs? You could save some money by going with a 64 GB.

I think that was it

Why don't you ask the shops where you would consider doing business if they can get it for you. Hint: cartft.com is the European distributor for PICO PSUs. Armed with this information you might just get a positive reply.

Don't go below 120/128GB SSD now, the price difference vs a smaller drive is such that the smaller drives are more expensive per gigabyte.
Remember that Windows 7 64bit alone + a few programs will fill up a 64GB drive by itself, or fill it close enough to capacity that garbage collection/TRIM won't work optimally. Leaving enough spare area on the drive is vital for longetivity.

I would also go with the Nexus psu.

Another tip would be to get a proper backup solution, backblaze is a good option.

Back when SSDs were still expensive or troublesome I used to install Win 7 (and some apps obviously) on 30G partitions for short-stroking.
These installs are still working fine with plenty of free space in spite of the updates, the multi-gig caches and stuff...

120G is for gamers, PC hobbyists and so on.

Thanks for your input!

Revised specs, changes in red:

• Case: Lian Li PC-Q11A
• PSU: PicoPSU (pending approval)
• Motherboard: Asus P8H77-I
• CPU & GPU: Intel Celeron G550T
• RAM: 8 GB 1066 MHz
• SSD: Samsung 830 Series 128 GB
• HDD: none
• CPU cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B
• DVD drive: none
• Monitor: Dell S2240L
• Keyboard & mouse TBD
• OS: Windows 7 Home Premium

Now the case is too big...

You might consider re-using the old case, cd drive, etc. That would be the most environmentally friendly option by far. That, of course, assumes they meet your new form factor & motherboard connections (IDE on motherboard?). If the monitor, keyboard, etc. are not terrible, re-using those is obviously a boon to the planet as well. Obviously this all cuts down from the wow/cool factor of the project, but real environmentalism is not glamorous

The Mac Mini is a really impressive little machine. I second this if it fits mummy's usage. It will have a longer life span as far as age-related slow-down is concerned.

This. I use a 64gb for an OS drive and am very happy with it. I keep all my data on a HDD RAID. If all you are using the SSD for is your OS, 120G is overkill, even when considering over-provisioning.

A PicoPSU is cute, but hardly makes a difference. You might save a watt or two at idle, but is it worth the hassle? Plus the brick will add clutter outside the case, and I get uncomfortable with the questionable 12V out of the brick, approaching maximum specifications, etc... I have no idea if he still sells them, but electrodacus' PSU was much fancier:
viewtopic.php?t=55153
I think the Seasonic should be fine, though. You won't notice any difference under actual operation.
If you are really going nuts for low idle power, good luck! Consider getting a plate to seal off the PSU hole in the case!

Edit: Is mummy a mother or a grand-mother?

Mummy is my mother, and she is nobody's grandmother.

There is no old case because her current machine is a terrible laptop (with an awful 11-year-old mouse attached). I agree that shiny new hardware is anything but green, of course, but mummy seems to have accepted as much. Her fridge is older than me, though...

The 128 GB Samsung 830 costs about as much as the motherboard. That's not outrageous, and without a data drive I think 64 GB is pushing it, even if Mummy doesn't actually keep anything in the way of data.

This is my suggestion,

CASE/PSU: Antec Mini-ITX Case ISK110-VESA
MOBO: Intel Desktop Motherboard LGA1155 DDR3 1600 mini-ITX - BOXDH77DF
CPU: Intel G540 CPU 2.50 GHZ 2M CACHE 2.5 2 LGA 1155 Processor (BX80623G540) (or wait for your G550T)
RAM: Kingston Technology HyperX 8 GB (2x4 GB Modules) 1600 MHz DDR3 Dual Channel Kit (PC3 12800) 240-Pin SDRAM KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX
SSD: SAMSUNG 830 Series 2.5-Inch 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7PC128B/WW
HDD: Samsung SpinPoint SATA 5400rpm 8 MB Cache 1 TB 2.5-Inch Hard Drive (M8 HN-M101MBB) (this is optional, but the case can fit 2x 2.5 drives, in case she needs the storage).
CPU COOLER: Scythe Kozuti Low Profile (40mm Height) Universal CPU Cooler w/ S.F.M.S. (SCKZT-1000)
Keyboard: Logitech Illuminated Ultrathin Keyboard with Backlighting
Mouse: Whatever she finds fits best for her hands.

Indeed, hence my suggestion of a Lian Li Q07. The Q11 is big compared to the Q07.
If you use a Pico PSU you really want a bigger cooler than the Big Shuriken 2. A Scythe Ninja 3 would work passively on a G550 CPU almost as well as the Thermalright HR-02 Macho.

I generally wouldn't use a fanless cooler in a fanless case. The obvious exception would be heatsink cases like those from HDPLEX. I'm not sure what I'd gain with a bigger cooler than the Big Shuriken 2, it'll be cooling a 35W TDP CPU so it shouldn't struggle at all.

Interesting that you should mention the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard, Abula, it's the one I use. Mummy mentioned she'd like something with decent contrast and a clear typeface. The Logitech is quite good in this regard with the backlight on. She prefers white keys with black lettering. I suggested an Apple keyboard might be a good choice, in photos they seem to have a particularly clear typeface, but I can't tell if the text is black on white or grey on white - I've never seen one in person...

Re-revised specs, with changes, once again, in red:

• Case: Lian Li PC-Q07A
• PSU: Seasonic X-400
• Motherboard: Intel DH77DF
• CPU & GPU: Intel Celeron G550T
• RAM: 8 GB 1066 MHz
• SSD: Samsung 830 Series 128 GB
• HDD: none
• CPU cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B
• DVD drive: none
• Monitor: Dell S2240L
• Keyboard & mouse TBD
• OS: Windows 7 Home Premium

The X400 has a higher wattage than this system requires, but then, I would install it, too, because of the lack of good, quiet PSUs under 400 watts.

Would be interested, should you go ahead with this build, as to whether the X400 is truly silent in your configuration with the Intel board.

I think a Seasonic G360 makes more sense here. It's less expensive (although it's not an issue here) and gives the compact Q11 some more airflow.
I don't think the fan will make more noise than the CPU cooler.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1297-page5.html

Butikker.

Make sure she gets to choose the color of the case!

http://www.proshop.dk/Products/ProductS ... lian%20q11

RHN, I'll give this a good listen with my ear against the PSU casing once I build it. If you're interested, I can also stop the fans in my own system (Intel DH67GD, i7-2700K, HD 7750, X-400) and listen to that. I'd link to the gallery thread, but it's outdated...

Mats, I seriously considered the G360. It's much cheaper and not noisy at all, certainly not at this load, but it's also not modular. With such a small case, I'm worried about cable management. Maybe I shouldn't be, the G360 is standard ATX size while the X-400 is 20 mm longer. Still, all those cables in a case with no forced airflow (note that I'm leaning towards the Q07 now) - decisions, decisions...

I did mention the other colours available. Mummy likes silver.

+1 for the G360. Fanless is unneeded, more problematic, and does not provide advantages if you have slow quality fans, as seems to be the case with the G360.

If you are not going to tinker frequently, you will be able to live without a modular PSU.

BTW, if you really, really want silence, I recommend you buy a slightly bigger SSD for "everyday work" and put the hard drive in an external enclosure to store movies, photos, etf. That way she will have no HDD noise unless she turns the HDD on to see some those movies: and she can carry those things around if she wants to.

If you put all the spare cables right in front of the PSU (towards the front of the case) with cable ties, it won't restrict the airflow.
Don't try to route the cables to somewhere else in the case like you do in bigger cases, because that will probably restrict the airflow.
Even though you can remove some unused cables with a modular PSU,
there are still a lot of cables used, and they're all way too long for that case.

Pick the Q11, the old Q07 is known for getting hot very easy.

Of course the Q07 will run hotter, it doesn't have any fans. I can't see much of a problem with a 35W CPU, especially with no HDD or DVD drive.

RHN, I don't know how relevant this is to you, but in my own system, I hear only a faint mains hum, and only if I hold my ear against the PSU casing. I hear no high-frequency noise, and the hum does not change appreciably with the loads I can subject it to (idle, CPU load, GPU load, CPU+GPU load).

Parts ordered:

• Case: Lian Li PC-Q07A
• PSU: Seasonic G-360
• Motherboard: Intel DH77DF
• CPU & GPU: Intel Celeron G550T
• CPU cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B
• RAM: Kingston 8 GB 1066 MHz
• SSD: Samsung 830 Series 128 GB
• Monitor: Dell U2212HM
• Keyboard: Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad
• Mouse: Logitech M500
• OS: Windows 7 Home Premium

Turn the fan around on the CPU cooler so it doesn't have to work against the PSU's fan.
Should be a very quiet build.

The case has ventilation for a top-down PSU fan to draw air from the outside, but I might test both configurations, in which case I will certainly reverse the CPU fan.

I guess I was still thinking of the Q11, which for some reason doesn't have that option.
With frugal components like these the difference in noise should be minimal.