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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:40 am
Posts: 29
Location: Norway
Thank you for the comments!

I actually tried to buy an extra sett with six heatpipes, like the one I have for the PCU, from Streacom. At first they were positive and I also got a price, but after a while I did not hear anymore from them. Maybe they got cold feet and are afraid to get complaints if someone fries their components after pushing it too far. I guess they have compared the risk and cost of complaints up with the safe way advertising the chassis just for use that they know will work safely. Everyone may not use the thermal paste the best way. But I still think they could have taken the chance to recommend lower end graphic cards, like GTX 650. They could just have set the same recommended max tdp of 65-95Watts.

Anyway I was content using the HFX heatpipes, because they are more adapteble. It is easy to mount several blocks with four heatpipes on top of each other. It's just to use a longer screw and that follows the package of the extension set. I am planning to order a extra set of the VGA cooler and use on the VRM. Other components on the graphic card is cool, like the ram. The only other component that gets hot to touch is the northbridge on the MB. I allready have a Zalman ZM-NB47J, but yet the temp don't seem critical. The RAM on the MB also seem to do fine, eaven if it's low profile. The CPU holds very low temps and the heatsink seldom feels warm (Right now it almost feels cold so it can't be over 37 C).

I use the GPU-Z from TechPowerUp to monitor the temp on the GPU. It is the first time I use this, with the HFX classic case I always felt safe. I also wondered what the 50% TDP meant. I also guess it must mean the card only goes on half load. I have understood from reviews of graphic cards that they seldom or never uses 100% load. For example the GTX 670 seldom uses more than about 160W and the load for GTX 660Ti is normally in the mid 130s. So maybe 50% of TDP means more than 50% of what the card practically can reach, but I am not shure. I have focused more on the use on games and the important thing for me is the possibility to play the games I want for some hours. The testing I have done is with the cargames Grid and Need for speed Shift. The games where on the high setting as far as I could understand. There is a new Need for speed game coming out soon and then I can test out with that one. The testing I talked about earlier I played Grid for some hours and the temp seemed to round of about 65 Celsius and kept around this level. The cooling system seem to respond fast. After the heavy gaming and if I go on surfing the temp goes rather fast down to under 50 C but then it take some time to go under 40C. If I went for another long period of gaming soon after this maybe the temp would go further up. I will know after some time. For now it seem to work fine, except VRM.

I should also mention the heatsinks do get warm, espessialy after long gaming. It feels too hot to touch for a long time, but not like I get burned. I can understand why Streacom would not recommend this kind of load. The front plate also gets warm but here I can hold the hand as long as I want. After long gaming the VRM is very hot, like burning, so I think something must be done, like the VGA cooling set I mentioned. I am also not shure if the GPU-Z program monitors the heat of the VRM or just the graphic processor itself.

I agree with the consern of the extra heat from an internal PSU. I saw a review of the Seasonic fanless 460 from 2010. He said the room temp was 25 C and that the extra temp from the PSU was 10 C at 80% load and 13 C at 110% load. I hope the Seasonic 520 will be eaven more efficient since it's a Platinum, so hopefully the extra temp will be minimal and I don't think the load will be more than 80% from this kind of system. After some reviews we will know more. One could maybe try to isolate the PSU from the rest of the case. The holes on the top could be like the ones on the FC5, if it gives enough air that would not compromise the design too mutch. I drilled about 700 small holes extra in the FC5 case (took about 4 hours).

At the moment I feel the PC works fine, except for the VRM, and if I can play some games on full settings now and then this works for me. I can always monitor temp while gaming.


Last edited by Highfi on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:43 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Romania
Highfi wrote:
... HFX heatpipes ... I am planning to order a extra set of the VGA cooler and use on the VRM.
...
After long gaming the VRM is very hot, like burning.
...
For now it seem to work fine, except VRM.
...
At the moment I feel the PC works fine, except for the VRM.

Ok, so VRM might be a problem. But how do you intend to mount the VGA heatsink from HFX on graphic's card VRM ??? Can one do that? I don't think you can do that.

Highfi wrote:
Other components on the graphic card is cool, like the ram.

Plenty of heatsink solutions for the graphic's card ram on the market, i won't mind about that.

Highfi wrote:
The only other component that gets hot to touch is the northbridge on the MB.

There are several heatsink solutions for the northbridge so I won't mind about it either.


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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:40 am
Posts: 29
Location: Norway
There are also some different solutions to cool the VRM. I think the safest way would be to use four heatpipes. The plastic mountingpeace is very adaptable so that will fit fine in the holes. the question is the aluminium block witch is about 4 cm long. The Mosfets seem to cover a area of 5-6 cm. Either i take away the fins on the standard cooler and place the HFX upon that or the best would be to get an aluminium block that covers the mosfets and then the HFX upon this again. I am not shure yet....


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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:43 pm
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Location: Romania
I dug arround the web for additional info regarding the FC10 case.
Very interesting.

On a news article on anandtech.com, "Ganesh T S" one of the anandtech staff people and the author of this news comments the following:
(you can see it here: Streacom Updates Passive HTPC Chassis Lineup with FC9 and FC10)

Quote:
Streacom indicated that they could have shaved $100 off the price if they had used an ordinary aluminium chassis instead of extruded aluminium.

Quote:
I asked Streacom about this, and they indicated that in their tests, up to 120W TDP processors had no problems getting cooled with just latching on to one side of the chassis.

Quote:
Streacom just mailed in with further clarifications.
All the PSUs on their site listed as compatible are non-power brick models. They apparently mount on the chassis.
The "underutilized" heat dissipation fins are apparently meant for GPU cooling.


Also if you look at this FC10 Computex picture you'll see a "standard" ATX power connector and also that silver thing inside is a PSU.
FC10 Computex photo
You can see the PSU better in this picture: FC10 Computex PSU
The translated text from german to english is: "New internal power supply in FC10 - of course completely passively cooled, high-quality aluminum body."
Apparently they changed their mind because the currently FC10 advertised on their website has a power brick connector not a ATX one: FC10 currently on Streacom website
Bummer.

Also, on their website at the FC10 specifications tab there is this particular mention:
"Power Supply: Nano150, Nano150XT, Nano180XT or StreaFlex 250 (not Included)"
But only the Nano150 PSU is listed as accessories on their site ... as of right now one could not find any informations regarding the other three PSUs.
In particular the "StreaFlex 250" sounds very interesting because a good 250W PSU can power a decent mid-gaming system!

Maybe they will keep the part with the right heatsink used as a GPU cooling device. That would be nice indeed ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:40 am
Posts: 29
Location: Norway
"120W TDP processors had no problems getting cooled" interesting! Then the GTX 560ti (110W tdp) should be a shure thing then and the GTX 660ti (150W tdp, but usually around 134W) should be within reach also, and the GTX 660 (140W tdp). They say the GTX 670 uses up to 150-160W and with some extra moding (thermal paste to the front plate + maybe some extra heatsinks...) I still beleave it will be within reach. But I haven't tried the FC10 so I can just refer to my experiances with the FC5. I am shure someone will try it out soon, that will be fun to see!

About the PSUs I generally think Seasonic is a very safe brand. They get alot of good reviews for their products. If you think of a smaller system I have also good experience with PicoPSU. We used the 160W ( I think this is the biggest modell if they haven't come with a new one lately) in HD Plex H3 with Asus mini-itx and i7 3770. It is a very fast PC that easily plays blueray.


Last edited by Highfi on Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:43 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Romania
Highfi wrote:
But I haven't tried the FC10 ...

I don't think anyone has ... I couldn't find any reviews of the FC10 case, not even one.
And all the websites that have it for sale none of them have it on stock and you can only pre-order it :(


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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:48 am 
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Location: Norway
I have thought about the 120W capacity that Streacom indicated for each side of the FC10, and think this is very good news. This means that both sides together has the capacity of 240W. The i7 3770k has a TDP of 77W and the GTX 670 170W, this sums up to 247W. The 670 seldom uses over 160W and the i7 should also need less power when the internal graphics is not active (and the i5 CPU is a good alternative for a HTPC). This means that the two sides of the FC10 together should have the cooling capacity for both i7 3770 and the GTX 670. The HFX heatpipes are very adaptable so it would be easy to take two (or four) extra heatpipes from the 670 and atache them to the heatsinks on the other side (the same side as the CPU). Acording to Streacom both sides should have "no problem" cooling down this (77W + 160W=237W). (And the challenges with the VRM I have will be solved, I just need some more parts, so that's just a question of time).

I believe the FC10 can be safe for a fanless gaming PC with GTX670!


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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Want to inform you of the progress on the fanless gaming pc. After some weeks the FC5 has gone through some changes: The original heatpipe system is replaced with HFX heatpipes to make room for some heatpipes from the graphic card. There is now four heatpipes from the VRM, and since the VRM give away some heat to the heatsink there is four more heatpipes from the GPU to the cooling tower mounted on the back (it's 12 heatpipes from the GPU + 4 from the VRM). The northbridge is now cooled with a Zalman ZM-NB47J (the pins where 2mm too high so I had to snap off the tops).

Under ordinary use, surfing on the net or playing blueray, the CPU starts around 30 C and after an hour stabilizes around 43 C (40 C with case open). The GPU starts around 27 C and after an hour stabilizes around 39 C (35 C with case open).

While gaming the CPU is mostly around 50 C and seldom over 80 C. I monitor the heat with Real Temp, CPUID and EVGA Precision. The VRM on the graphic card stil gets hot but it seem to be cooled enough. The temp on the GPU depends on the load. Grid can be played on highest settings for several hours and the temp stabilizes around 70 C (the load on the GTX 660ti is mostly between 50-60% but sometimes up to 80%). Need for speed Most Wanted can not be played on highest settings for long, after 15 minutes the temp passes 97 C (the load is then over 100% and sometimes peaks to 120%). With the resolution on 1920x1080, high details on and the rest on low and a couple on medium settings, the temp is around 70 C and sometimes between 80 and 90 C (this setting can be played for hours). The load is between 60 and 70 % and sometimes around 90 %. With graphics on medium settings the temp passes 97 C after an hour of gaming. Both games hold 60 fps most of the time. It seems like the cooling system can take away around 80 % load of the GTX 660ti and stabilize under 97 C. When the load passes 90 % the temp soon passes 97 C. The testing is done with the case open.

It would have been great if the system could have taken NFS Most Wanted on highest settings, but as the pc is now it gets too hot. For my use it is still good enough. I don't play games that often, and so far I prefer Grid over NFS MW (and I think the graphics on Most Wanted still are good on low settings). To cool down the GTX 660ti on 100 % load it would be better to go for the Streacom FC10 case.

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:19 am 
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There are some more pictures of the Streacom FC5 gaming project in this thread: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=65463


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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:46 am 
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Anandtech reviewed the new Streacom FC10 case:

Streacom's FC10 and Nano150: Building a Fanless Ivy Bridge HTPC

What's interesting is that they say (with a 55W TDP CPU):
Quote:
... it must be noted that we have mounted the Sapphire HD 7750 Ultimate in the PCIe slot and also connected a flexible PCIe riser to the motherboard.
We wanted to test out whether the Nano150 would be able to power up such a configuration and we were relieved to find that there were no issues.

We'll have to wait for full details in part 2 and 3 of the review (I can only hope they stressed both the CPU and GPU to the max and the PSU held) but this gives hope that a i7 77W + Radeon 7750/7770 setup will be safely powered by Streacom's unreleased yet 180/250W internal PSUs.


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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:43 pm 
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Location: Norway
Streacom say they will introduce a GPU cooler, Streaflex 250W PSU and a 450W PSU in March. This will make it a lot easier to put descrete graphic cards in Streacom cases. Looking forward to see what they come out with!


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 Post subject: Re: 100% Fanless midrange system - is this possible?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Fyi. HDPLEX H5.TODD reviewed.

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