Quiet gaming setup

logion · **Joined:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:47 am **Posts:** 14

Hi,

I'm considering upgrading from my (hellishly) loud gaming notebook to a quiet desktop gaming replacement.
I have a SSD and monitor/keyboard/mouse that I can re-use, everything else has to be bought. The total cost price should be lower than 1000 euros. So far, I've come up with this setup:

Quote:

CPU: Intel Core i5 4670K / 3.4 GHz € 198,90
CPU cooler: Scythe Mugen 4 PCGH € 40,90
Mobo: Gigabyte Z87-HD3 € 96,90
RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport € 70,89
VGA: MSI R7970 TF 3GD5/OC BE € 259,90
HDD: WD Green WD20EZRX € 78,90
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 € 90,90
PSU: Sonic Platinum Series P-520 € 139,90

Total: € 977,19

CPU/Mobo/RAM are descent and their choice doesn't contribute much to a silent PC.

Clearly, the loudest component will be the 7970 (which is very affordable at the moment due to recent price drops). I'm getting the MSI TF edition because of it's attractive pricing in my area. All other editions (like the Sapphire Vapor-x) are significantly more expensive (see here for a list of my options). However, I'm unsure about the noise of the GPU cooler on this card. At the moment, I'm considering to test the 7970 and if I find it too loud for my liking I might consider an aftermarket cooler (maybe something like an Accelero Xtreme 7970, although it's a bit pricey). I'm mainly interested in an inaudible idle system (e.g. while browsing, watching a video), I don't mind if the noise levels rise a little during gaming/load. Maybe undervolting the card during idle might help? Although, I've read that the GPU fan will never go below 800-1000 rpm. So when it's a loud fan at this RPMage, you're basically screwed? I know I could also get a 7950 which has a lower TDP and thus runs cooler/generates less noise; but I want this system to be future-proof (i.e. new games in 2-3 years and > 1080p resolution) so I want to get the best VGA card possible for my budget.

In terms of the CPU cooler, are there better alternatives than the Scythe 4 in the same price range (Noctua and Prolimatech Megahalems seem a bit more expensive)?

For the case and PSU, I think I've made an excellent choice with the Fractal R4 and the Seasonic P-520; however I'm a bit worried that a loud GFX card would nullify the advantage of a fanless PSU.
As the HDD will only be used as a data disk I think the WD Green will be fine as it is considered an energy efficient and quiet disk?

If not for the GFX card I would have probably ordered this system without asking for feedback on SPCR; however this is the component I'm most unsure about so I'd love to get some input!
Cheers!

ggumdol · **Posted:** Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:51 pm

Hi,

It is highly likely that your GFX (HD 7970, TDP 250W) will nullify your supposedly quiet rig. In a sense, it is really easy to understand the reason: Just compare the TDP of i5 4670K and its heatsink (Scythe Mugen 4 in your case) with the TDP of HD 7970 and its heatsink (MSI TF?). While the TDP of 7970 is almost three times that of i5 4670K, the heatsink used in MSI TF is probably even smaller. Also, my hunch is that MSI TF is not as quite as other components in your rig even in idle state because most fans used in GFX are mediocre and exhibit underperforming sound characteristics (They cannot afford to use high-quality fans in the extremely competitive present VGA market where most frugal users are content with noisy fans).

If you live in Germany, you should consider the following option as an aftermarket GFX cooler:

Alpenföhn Peter plus 2x Noctua NF-S12A PWM 120mm

By the way, I would use Noctua products for truly quiet rigs (e.g., CPU coolers, case fans, ...).

Since you are interested in quietness as well as gaming experience, it might be worth considering GTX 660 or GTX 760 in lieu of HD 7970 for their much lower TDPs. I find it rather hard to fathom out why people would ever want to buy anything higher than GTX 660 for 1080p gaming experience. Please enlighten me if you can.

boost · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:16 am

AMd will launch new graphic cards by October 8th.
The 7970 will be rebadged to R9 280X and you can expect a small price drop when the new cards arrive.
If you want a realy quiet computer an aftermarket cooler for a high end graphic card is a must. The Alpenföhn Peter is quite expensive, an Accellero Twin turbo works well, too. To use it with a 79XX card you need a copper shim because the gpu is recessed from a frame surrounding it.
The rest of the components look good.
One note: the Scythe Mugen4 PGHW comes with two 800RPM 3-Pin fans. Can they be controlled by the fan headers on the Gigabyte board?

logion · **Joined:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:47 am **Posts:** 14

ggumdol wrote:

Hi,

It is highly likely that your GFX (HD 7970, TDP 250W) will nullify your supposedly quiet rig. In a sense, it is really easy to understand the reason: Just compare the TDP of i5 4670K and its heatsink (Scythe Mugen 4 in your case) with the TDP of HD 7970 and its heatsink (MSI TF?). While the TDP of 7970 is almost three times that of i5 4670K, the heatsink used in MSI TF is probably even smaller. Also, my hunch is that MSI TF is not as quite as other components in your rig even in idle state because most fans used in GFX are mediocre and exhibit underperforming sound characteristics (They cannot afford to use high-quality fans in the extremely competitive present VGA market where most frugal users are content with noisy fans).

If you live in Germany, you should consider the following option as an aftermarket GFX cooler:

Alpenföhn Peter plus 2x Noctua NF-S12A PWM 120mm

By the way, I would use Noctua products for truly quiet rigs (e.g., CPU coolers, case fans, ...).

I definitely agree on the GPU being the loudest, however aftermarket GPU coolers do have its price (60 euros for the Alpenfohn Peter 79xx). Therefor, one option is to get a 7970 and see if it is too loud for my liking. Ifso, I can weight the investment in such an expensive cooler vs the reduction in noise. The Accelero Xtreme 7970 also looks attractive in the same price range. I am however a bit reluctant of aftermarket coolers after I read this thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1741368. The sagging of the card under the weight of those bulky heatsinks seems problematic.

In terms of FANS, the review of the Scythe Mugen 4 on SPCR mentions that the stock fan is very good. I'm not so sure about the two case fans that ship with the Fractal R4; but the case comes with its own fan controller that allows to run them at 5-9-12V; so I should get them fairly quiet, or at least that's what I'm hoping.

ggumdol wrote:

Since you are interested in quietness as well as gaming experience, it might be worth considering GTX 660 or GTX 760 in lieu of HD 7970 for their much lower TDPs. I find it rather hard to fathom out why people would ever want to buy anything higher than GTX 660 for 1080p gaming experience. Please enlighten me if you can.

Good question, it might be worth getting a card with a lower TDP in order to save the cost and hassle of an aftermarket GPU cooler. In anadtech's tests the 760 is able to dish out reasonable FPS at nearly all 1080p tests. In Arma 3 the difference between the 7970 and the 660TI (predecessor of the 770) is also fairly small: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2306250.

I guess a possible reason for preferring a 7970 would be future-proofness: as games get more and more demanding the 7970 will last longer than the 760 GTX. Then again, alternatively you could decide to upgrade your GFX card along the line.

I'll lay off on the GPU decision for now; and decide in the coming days whether GPU with a lower TDP is more appropriate for my intended use. I would imagine GPUs to be fairly similar in terms of heat dissipation at idle and to only notice differences in heat production as the cards are reaching higher loads (e.g. a 7970 and a 770 would be similar in terms of power usage at idle)? As I mentioned I don't mind a bit of noise while gaming. Anadtech lists a 3W difference at idle and an actual lower Load Power in Battlefield 3 for the 7970 vs the GTX 770 (source). Granted the noise production of the 7970 is significantly higher. The later seems a bit counter intuitive or do ATI's have really bad stock cooling?.

boost wrote:

AMd will launch new graphic cards by October 8th.
The 7970 will be rebadged to R9 280X and you can expect a small price drop when the new cards arrive.
If you want a realy quiet computer an aftermarket cooler for a high end graphic card is a must. The Alpenföhn Peter is quite expensive, an Accellero Twin turbo works well, too. To use it with a 79XX card you need a copper shim because the gpu is recessed from a frame surrounding it.
The rest of the components look good.
One note: the Scythe Mugen4 PGHW comes with two 800RPM 3-Pin fans. Can they be controlled by the fan headers on the Gigabyte board?

Afaik, the Mugen4 only comes with one fan (at least according to the SPCR review, the review also states that installing a second fan isn't worth the extra noise production for the limited additional cooling that you get); I am unaware whether they can be controller by the motherboard. I would expect so, no?

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:37 am

logion wrote:

Afaik, the Mugen4 only comes with one fan (at least according to the SPCR review, the review also states that installing a second fan isn't worth the extra noise production for the limited additional cooling that you get); I am unaware whether they can be controller by the motherboard. I would expect so, no?

There are two Mugen 4 in the Scythe lineup right now: the SCMG-4000 (EAN code: 4571225052748), the one SPCR reviewed, and which sports a single 4-pins PWM fan (your mobo surely can control it), and the SCMG-4PCGH (EAN code: 4571225053417), the one you listed, which sports two 3-pins voltage controlled 800rpm fans (and your mobo may be not able to control them; so, check the mobo manual online, and look for any controllable 3-pin fan header for the CPU, or drop a mail to the Gigabyte Technical Support, they are often slow but they also often answer).

At any rate, nice prices in Holland: what a shame that dutch e-tailers don't speak english and don't ship all over UE!

CA_Steve · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:57 pm

+1 on waiting a few weeks before deciding on the gfx card. I expect some realignment in pricing once AMD comes out with the new top end and rebranded mainstream gpus. For 1080p, the highest I'd go is the GTX 760 (slots slightly below the 7970 in performance and uses 20-25W less power). Not worth spending more than $250 or so. Better off replacing the $250 card in 2-3 years than replacing a $350+ card in 3-4 years just for the improvements in performance and power.

All cards use about the same amount of power at idle/2D...AMD is still wonky when using multimonitor and some 2D apps - like BD playback (don't idle the memory clock -> runs 10W+ higher power than team Green).

OEM coolers are getting better. Many applications of the Twin Frozr on MSI cards work great.

Stock R4 fans - should work fine. As mentioned, you do have the case fan controller.

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:57 pm

CA_Steve wrote:

the highest I'd go is the GTX 760

What can it offer over a good GTX 660TI?

Abula · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:29 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:

CA_Steve wrote:

the highest I'd go is the GTX 760

What can it offer over a good GTX 660TI?

In the US the GTX760 retails around $260, while the GTX660Ti used to retail for $300, so its cheaper and faster,

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:26 pm

Abula wrote:

quest_for_silence wrote:

CA_Steve wrote:

the highest I'd go is the GTX 760

What can it offer over a good GTX 660TI?

In the US the GTX760 retails around $260, while the GTX660Ti used to retail for $300, so its cheaper and faste

European market prices are somewhat different: now the 660ti is usually about a 15% cheaper than the 760 (and about 30% less of the above mentioned Radeon 7970).

logion · **Joined:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:47 am **Posts:** 14

How about fan control on today's motherboards? I know I can use the fan controller built into the Define R4; but nowadays alot of motherboards ship with fan control as well (which could run the FANs on lower RPMs than the R4's fan controller)?

This thread on SPCR contains a wealth of information about Asus Fan Expert2; however I don't like the fact that Chasis fans can't be lowered below 60% in the BIOS. I plan on using both Windows and Linux and would want a quiet system for both operating systems (so the Fan Export2 windows only software is of limited value to me). I've also read Abula's comments vouching for fan controlling possibilities in the BIOS on MSI motherboards. Maybe a MSI board could be a better fit for my needs?

Ideally I'd like a motherboard/component that can control three to four 4-pin PWM fans and that can actually drive the FAN via the fourth PWM pin. As I see it PWM fans that are controlled via their fourth PWM pin can spin significantly slower than 3/4 pin FANs that are controlled by modulating their +12V pin? Does anyone know of a product that meets these requirements? Also related, I guess the built-in fan controller of the Define R4 doesn't regulate PWM fans via their fourth pin?

lodestar · **Posted:** Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:04 pm

logion wrote:

Ideally I'd like a motherboard/component that can control three to four 4-pin PWM fans and that can actually drive the FAN via the fourth PWM pin. As I see it PWM fans that are controlled via their fourth PWM pin can spin significantly slower than 3/4 pin FANs that are controlled by modulating their +12V pin? Does anyone know of a product that meets these requirements? Also related, I guess the built-in fan controller of the Define R4 doesn't regulate PWM fans via their fourth pin?

The case PWM fans can be chained off the CPU fan header using a $10 splitter cable such as the Akasa Flexa FP5 from sources such as FrozenCPU. This cable only takes the control signal from the CPU PWM header and distributes it to all the fans on the chain. Power is taken separately from a PSU SATA header. As all the fans on the chain receive the same control signal, the % duty cycle figure, this achieves the objective of all of the fans automatically running at minimal speeds under idle and low system load conditions and only speeding up under system stress such as gaming. The Define R4 built-in fan controller runs the supplied 140mm 3 pin fans at just under 500 rpm at the lowest 5V setting, around 700 rpm at 7V and 1000 rpm at the full 12V setting. For a gaming system I think the best option with this case would be to move the exhaust fan to one of the front positions and run both front fans at either 5V or 7V, and then fit a 140mm PWM fan as the exhaust chained off the CPU fan header. With a high-end graphics card it might be necessary to uncover the rear top exhaust position and fit a further 140mm PWM fan there. This is to give a higher degree of thermally controlled case air flow to contain the most significant potential source of noise, the graphics card fans. To reduce the fan noise levels at idle or low system stress it would be worth considering one of the 140mm PWM models with lower idle speeds, such as the Noctua NF-A14 PWM which idles from 300 rpm upwards.

logion · **Joined:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:47 am **Posts:** 14

The increased control of the Xpert Fan Control system has convinced me to with a Asus Z87 board, more specifically the Z87-A which is the most affordable from their line-up.

Unfortunately, the lack of Linux software means that fans not connected to the CPU PWM outlet on the motherboard will run at a minimum of 60% (in Linux, no prob in Windows). The way I see it, I have various options. I can daisychain all fans of the CPU fan connector, this effectively gives me sub-60% RPM values even in Linux but no finetuning per specific fan in windows. Alternatively, I could use all the FAN connectors on the mobo ; this gives superior control in windows, but under Linux fans will run at the minimum that can be set in BIOS - i.e. prolly 60%. Lastely I could use the R4's fan controller (no finetuning per specific fan in either Windows or Linux). I'll experiment with different options/combinations to come up a solution that best suits my needs.

As far as the GFX card goes, I've decided to settle on the GTX 760. As was pointed out to me, it's more than potent for my 1080p requirements and uses less power than the 7970/770. The only question I'm still struggling with, is whether the 760's price will drop once AMD releases their R9 cards. Can anyone shed some light on this? I'm guessing nVidia has lowered their prices in the past in response to AMD's products; so it's quite likely that this will also be case now?

Finally, I'm still looking for an additional 140mm fan (next to the 2 140mm fans provided with the R4). I'm guessing the Noctua NF-P14 FLX is a good choice (seeing how it is recommended on SPCR 140mm fan lineups)? It's not a PWM fan, but it is one of the best performing fans in the lineup...

My final configuration looks as follows:

Quote:

Noctua NF-P14 FLX € 20,42
Asus Z87-K € 103,90
Crucial Ballistix Sport € 70,89
Sea Sonic Platinum Series P-520 € 139,90
Intel Core i5 4670K / 3.4 GHz € 198,90
WD Green WD20EZRX € 78,90
MSI N760 TF 2GD5/OC € 234,90
Fractal Design Define R4 € 90,90
Scythe Mugen 4 PCGH € 40,90

Total: 980 euros.

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:36 pm

logion wrote:

I can daisychain all fans of the CPU fan connector, this effectively gives me sub-60% RPM values even in Linux but no finetuning per specific fan in windows. Alternatively, I could use all the FAN connectors on the mobo ; this gives superior control in windows, but under Linux fans will run at the minimum that can be set in BIOS - i.e. prolly 60%. Lastely I could use the R4's fan controller (no finetuning per specific fan in either Windows or Linux).

Eventually you can use a programmable fan controller as the Scythe Kaze Server 5.25.

CA_Steve · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:43 pm

Code:

As far as the GFX card goes, I've decided to settle on the GTX 760. As was pointed out to me, it's more than potent for my 1080p requirements and uses less power than the 7970/770. The only question I'm still struggling with, is whether the 760's price will drop once AMD releases their R9 cards.

Wait until next week's intro and find out with the rest of us

There's generally some price realignment - whether or not it will apply to the 760 is unknown.

Abula · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:44 pm

logion wrote:

The increased control of the Xpert Fan Control system has convinced me to with a Asus Z87 board, more specifically the Z87-A which is the most affordable from their line-up.

Unfortunately, the lack of Linux software means that fans not connected to the CPU PWM outlet on the motherboard will run at a minimum of 60% (in Linux, no prob in Windows). The way I see it, I have various options. I can daisychain all fans of the CPU fan connector, this effectively gives me sub-60% RPM values even in Linux but no finetuning per specific fan in windows. Alternatively, I could use all the FAN connectors on the mobo ; this gives superior control in windows, but under Linux fans will run at the minimum that can be set in BIOS - i.e. prolly 60%. Lastely I could use the R4's fan controller (no finetuning per specific fan in either Windows or Linux). I'll experiment with different options/combinations to come up a solution that best suits my needs.

Im going to recommend against Asus for linux, as you wont be able to use fanXpert2, you will be at the mercy of Asus bios, which is sub par at the best, i personally made a suggestion on the ASUS ROG forums, that will likely be forgotten, they dont see worth it, ASUS Bios fan control request.

What i recommend you is MSI, their bios PWM fan control is really good, they allow 12.5%, 25%, 37.5%, all of them much lower than Asus 40% restriction on bios. Besides MSI in a lot of boards offer CPU_FAN1 and CPU_FAN2, contrary to ASUS, MSI gives us 2 fully controllable PWM fan headers, i know this a fact as im using a MSI Z87-GD65.

Now since want a more value oriented motherboard, my suggestion is going with something like MSI Z87-G43, the good thing of this mobo over mine, is that it doesnt come with Qualcom Killer Nic (dont have any support for linux), and comes with Realtek 8111E (that has Linux driver support).

From what i can see has also CPU_FAN1 and CPU_FAN2, i dont own this motherboard, so i cant says its 100% the same as my Z87-GD65 or Z77GA43 (that i built couple of months ago), but my guess is it is the same.

My suggestion on fans is Noctua NF-A14 PWM x the amount of fans you will use as case fan, and run all of them with 4pin pwm splitter like Swiftech 8-Way PWM Cable Splitter - SATA Power (8W-PWM-SPL-ST), i hide mine behind the 5.25 cage on my R4, fits fine, very easy to access and the noctua fans came with extensions that allow connecting on that slot. Connect the splitter to CPU_FAN2 and your cpu cooler fan CPU_FAN1 (try it to be a PWM fan), and now you are in buisness to setup all your fans with your CPU temp and independantly between both headers, and since everything is done on pure bios, it will work fine on LINUX.

ggumdol · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:50 pm

As you might have noticed, I'm using Asrock mainboards (B85M Pro4 and one more in my HTPC) now and have no problem in adjusting fan speed of several Noctua fans in my rig to 100~300 rpms "in" BIOS, which surely dispenses any need to use Windows or Linux programs. Since I haven't bought any Asus boards recently (If I recall correctly, I once had an Asus one about 5 years ago), I'm not really entitled to compare Asus and Asrock motherboards but I just would like to mention that Asrock motherboards have "genuine" PWM fan headers and have the full capabilities to control fan speeds to the range of 100~300 rpms (which I reckon to be truly quiet range). If you google "Asrock A-Tuning Utility", you will find out that Asrock fan control program in Windows is as good as or even better than that of Asus.

Secondly, you might want to consider other hard disks than WD20EZRX whose noise levels are 23 dBA (Idle) and 27 dBA (Seek mode) according to the following data sheet:

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/S ... 771438.pdf

Although I'm now using WD10EZRX which is almost as noisy as WD20EZRX, I would buy one of WD Blue series if I could reverse time:

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/S ... 771437.pdf

For instance, noise levels of WD5000LPVX are 17 dBA (Idle) and 22 dBA (Seek mode). Personally, I would not buy any mechanical drive in the future. They are one of the noisiest components along with VGA cards.

Abula · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:05 pm

ggumdol wrote:

As you might have noticed, I'm using Asrock mainboards (B85M Pro4 and one more in my HTPC) now and have no problem in adjusting fan speed of several Noctua fans in my rig to 100~300 rpms "in" BIOS, which surely dispenses any need to use Windows or Linux programs. Since I haven't bought any Asus boards recently (If I recall correctly, I once had an Asus one about 5 years ago), I'm not really entitled to compare Asus and Asrock motherboards but I just would like to mention that Asrock motherboards have "genuine" PWM fan headers and have the full capabilities to control fan speeds to the range of 100~300 rpms (which I reckon to be truly quiet range). If you google "Asrock A-Tuning Utility", you will find out that Asrock fan utility in Windows is as good as or even better than that of Asus.

Just wondering out of never owning a AsRock, and probably will start considering them on the future.

Would you mind sharing a screenshot of fan control on bios? im really interested on the minimum % allow on bios (not the rpms).

How many true PWM fan headers does it have? Asus only has 1, MSI has 2, but wondering on Asrock.

ggumdol · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:23 pm

I have no idea how to capture a screenshot in BIOS. It might suffice to say that the fan control functionality in BIOS is exactly the same as that of the Windows program provided by Asrock, called A-Tuning utility. Here is a screenshot of the program.

Minimum % of fan speed is 1% as far as I remember. In my Asrock B85M Pro4 board, there are one PWM fan header for CPU, one voltage controlled fan header for chassis fan (which is fully funcional in the sense that it is capable of adjusting the fan speed of the front chassis fan in my rig down to 200 rpm, though I haven't yet tried 100 rpm or lower), and one PWM fan header for another chassis fan.

Abula · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:42 pm

ggumdol wrote:

I have no idea how to capture a screenshot in BIOS. It might suffice to say that the fan control functionality in BIOS is exactly the same as that of the Windows program provided by Asrock, called A-Tuning utility. Here is a screenshot of the program.

Minimum % of fan speed is 1% as far as I remember. In my Asrock B85M Pro4 board, there are one PWM fan header for CPU, one voltage controlled fan header for chassis fan (which is fully funcional in the sense that it is capable of adjusting the fan speed of the front chassis fan in my rig down to 200 rpm, though I haven't yet tried 100 rpm or lower), and one PWM fan header for another chassis fan.

Thanks on the screenshot of the Fan-Tastic Tunning, its seems similar to Asus in some aspects. And really appriciate the time you took into posting it, but for the OP that will be using linux, and me that i dislike using extra sofware would love to see a bios screenshot of the fan control. I google some, and manage to find the following,

But i cant see much there, in terms of PWM %, just i see profiles and CPU headers seem united or one only like on ASUS. What happens when you click on standard (do other profiles appear like manual, silent, etc), and if so, when you go manual, what can you tweak? %pwm? temperatures?

ggumdol · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:12 pm

ggumdol wrote:

It might suffice to say that the fan control functionality in BIOS is exactly the same as that of the Windows program provided by Asrock, called A-Tuning utility.

I must restate: Fan control functionality of Asrock BIOS (for Haswell CPUs) is functionally richer than Asrock A-Tuning Utility because there are a few more options exclusively used in BIOS such as "Standard Mode" and "Silent Mode" along with common "fully customizable mode".

I guess the above screenshot (I just googled) answers most of your questions, Abula.

You can construct a piecewise linear function for PWM of all fans, the argument of which is CPU temperature. As for voltage controlled 3-pin fan header, I gather that the % corresponds to the input voltage of the fan. Both of them work flawlessly. I speculate Asrock motherboards excel in the "acoustical sense" all the other candidates when it comes to Haswell chipsets, not to mention that they are even cheaper than the rest.

Abula · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:53 pm

Thanks for the response

ggumdol wrote:

It might suffice to say that the fan control functionality in BIOS is exactly the same as that of the Windows program provided by Asrock, called A-Tuning utility.

I must restate: Fan control functionality of Asrock BIOS (for Haswell CPUs) is functionally richer than Asrock A-Tuning Utility because there are a few more options exclusively used in BIOS such as "Standard Mode" and "Silent Mode" along with common "fully customizable mode".

Appreciate the remark, but as i said earlier, not interested on software based fan control, probably the original poster inst either as it wont have support for linux.

ggumdol wrote:

I guess the above screenshot (I just googled) answers most of your questions, Abula.

You can construct a piecewise linear function for PWM of all fans, the argument of which is CPU temperature. As for voltage controlled 3-pin fan header, I gather that the % corresponds to the input voltage of the fan. Both of them work flawlessly. I speculate Asrock motherboards excel in the "acoustical sense" all the other candidates when it comes to Haswell chipsets, not to mention that they are even cheaper than the rest.

This is precisely what i wanted to see from the bios, thanks. Very nice that it even has multiple breakpoints, MSI and Asus have only two, while here i see 5. Just a last question to you, on the bios, in the screenshot you posted, well more in your setup, what range can you change on "Fan speed for CPU Temperature 1"? On the screenshot i see 50% / 65% / 70% / 75% / 80%, wondering whats the lowest you can input there? On MSI is 12.5% on Asus is 40%, but wondering on AsRock.

ggumdol · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:19 pm

I hope everything is crystal clear by now. You finally made me take a picture.

Abula · **Posted:** Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:29 pm

ggumdol wrote:

I hope everything is crystal clear by now. You finally made me take a picture.

Thanks very much ggumdol, im really impressed with asrock bios fan control, specially the amount of tweaking its allowed to lower PWM %, again thanks a lot for your picture and posts, im probably going to go with AsRock on my next built to test it.

quest_for_silence · **Posted:** Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:43 am

ggumdol wrote:

Fan control functionality of Asrock BIOS (for Haswell CPUs) is functionally richer than Asrock A-Tuning Utility because there are a few more options exclusively used in BIOS such as "Standard Mode" and "Silent Mode" along with common "fully customizable mode".

Just to know: have you ever used SpeedFan with your ASRock mobo?

logion · **Joined:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:47 am **Posts:** 14

I've researched four popular Z87 motherboards in terms of FAN connectors and their ability to control connected fans. FAN control options for different Z87 models of the same manufacturer are usually quite similar with the main difference being the number of FAN connectors available. However, always refer to the user manual to be sure. Research was limited to browsing user manuals, watching youtube videos (typically for software possibilities) and what I've read here on SPCR. Here goes:

Quote:

Asus Z87-Plus
FAN Connectors:

BIOS FAN control:
Q-Fan control for CPU fan allows to set two duty cycle/CPU temperature data points. The available range for duty cycle is [20%,100%] and for CPU temperature is [20C,75C].
Q-Fan control is not available for the CPU_OPT fan. CPU_OPT might be mirroring the CPU fan but I'm unsure (Fan Xpert 2 also doesn't allow to control CPU_OPT, see below).
Q-Fan control for the CHA fans allows to set two duty cycle/CPU temperature data points. The available range for duty cycle is [60%,100%] and for CPU temperature is [20C,75C]. Note that the minimum duty cycle of 60% might be problematic here!

Software FAN control through Fan Xpert2 (Windows only):
Allows to set 3 duty cycle/CPU temperature points per FAN for the CPU and 4 CHA fans (the CPU_OPT fan can't be controlled separately, it is probably mirrored). In Fan Xpert2 the range of the duty cycle is [0,100%] for all fan types. Therefor, in Fan Xpert2 the minimum duty cycle for the CHA fans is not limited to 60%.

Asrock Z87 Extreme3
FAN Connectors:

UEFI control:
Allows to set a fan speed vs CPU temperature curve of 5 data points (see screenshots provided by ggumdol). Range for fan speed is [0%,100%]. It looks like both CPU fans are controlled as one and that the 4 pin PWM CHA fan and 3 pin CHA fans can be configured separately (see Abula's screenshot). . It is also unclear whether all 3 pin CHA fans can be configured individually or rather as a group.

Software FAN control through A-Tuning Fan-tastic (Windows only):
Configuration options seem to be identical to those available in the UEFI.

Gigabyte GA Z87X-D3H and Z87X-UD3H
FAN Connectors:

UEFI FAN control:
All 4 pin FANS come with 4 modes: Normal, Silent, Manual and Disabled. CPU_FAN and CPU_OPT fans are controlled together. Manual mode allows to configure a Slope PWM value in the [0,75;2,50] PWM value per degree centigrade. CPU fans are controlled by CPU temperature, chassis fans by system temperature. The slope appears to be constant, so you can't define separate temperature zones.

Software FAN control through EasyTune Smart Fan(Windows only):
User manual seems to imply that only CPU_FAN/CPU_OPT (together) and SYS_FAN1 can be controlled via EasyTune. From the user manual it appears that SYS_FAN2 and 3 can't be controlled from ET. ET allows to set 6 Fan Duty Cycle (0-100%)/CPU temperature (0-100C) points ([url=http://techreport.com/r.x/2013_5_2_Gigabyte_previews_new_EasyTune_software_for_Haswell_motherboards/shot2.jpg]source[/img]). Strangely though, in the screenshot there are three black dots which seems to indicate that three FAN connectors can be controlled instead of only two (maybe the screenshot was taken for one of the fancier Z87 models). Note that information is hard to find on the latest revision of GB's EasyTune software.

MSI Z87
FAN Connectors:

UEFI FAN control:
Fan speed/temperature curves can be defined for all five fan types. The curve consists of a minimum and a maximum fan speed/temperature data point (thus only two data points can be configured). Minimum fan speed is limited to {12,5%; 25%; 27,5%; 50%; 62,5%; 75%}, maximum fan speed is limited to {25%; 27,5%; 50%; 62,5%; 75%; 87,5%}. Temperature is between 40 and 100 degrees Centigrade.

Software FAN control through MSI Command Center (Windows only):
Identical to the UEFI Fan control options.

Based on my findings my preference would be the ASRock, as it allows the greatest control and is also the most affordable option. You might miss some of additional software features found in Fan Xpert2, like fan renaming and placing of fans; but these functions are gimmicks that don't actually allow to control your FANs. For Linux, the ASRock motherboard definitely looks the way to go.

Abula · **Posted:** Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:51 am

logion wrote:

I've researched four popular Z87 motherboards in terms of FAN connectors and their ability to control connected fans. FAN control options for different Z87 models of the same manufacturer are usually quite similar with the main difference being the number of FAN connectors available. However, always refer to the user manual to be sure. Research was limited to browsing user manuals, watching youtube videos (typically for software possibilities) and what I've read here on SPCR. Here goes:

Based on my findings my preference would be the ASRock, as it allows the greatest control and is also the most affordable option. You might miss some of additional software features found in Fan Xpert2, like fan renaming and placing of fans; but these functions are gimmicks that don't actually allow to control your FANs. For Linux, the ASRock motherboard definitely looks the way to go.

I liked the way you gather the info, I would chose MSI or AsRock for linux build, and with that ggumdol shared with us, seems Asrock is much more tweakable on BIOS fan control than MSI with its 5points and no limits on the PWM %.

If you go with AsRock (is what i would chose), im going to recommend something similar than what i did with my MSI, use the CPU_FAN for you cpu cooler fan (hopping its PWM), and chose a PWM fan for the case fans, if you can use the same on all slots and connect them via a Swiftech 8-Way PWM Cable Splitter - SATA Power (8W-PWM-SPL-ST) to the CHA_FAN header (the one that its pwm), for the R4 i had a very good experience with Noctua NF-A14 PWM, personally i find it very quiet between 200-600rpm, around 700rpm starts to get noticeable, above 1k is very loud, but i have mine limited to 225rpm on idle and limited to 37.5% on bios for max rpms, so under really high load the max the spin is 650rpm. The CPU cooler fan, in my case is Thermalright TY150, i left it roam freely, as the impact on temps is more sensible to this fan as its on the heatsink, so in idle is at 37.5% (525rpm) and stays like this until 50C is reached, where it gradually increases, but i didnt limit it in top rpms, it can go to 1100 if the CPU needs to, the fan is much quieter than noctua probably because is not in any of the opening of the case, but this is more for you to test with your own setup and what you are willing to sacrifice between noise/temps.

Ill leave you with the curve of operation of the Noctua NF-A14PWM i did on my Asus Maximus VI gene,

If you were to not wanna invest on new fans, specially since noctua are expensive, give a shot to the R4 fan controller and the included fans, they should be fine aswell, the 5V settings is very quiet, and the 7v is decent, 12V imo is too loud.

Quote:

The available range for duty cycle is [20%,100%] and for CPU temperature is [20C,75C].

Btw on the Asus is not 20%, its 40% at least on my Asus Maximus VI Gene.

logion · **Joined:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:47 am **Posts:** 14

ggumdol wrote:

As you might have noticed, I'm using Asrock mainboards (B85M Pro4 and one more in my HTPC) now and have no problem in adjusting fan speed of several Noctua fans in my rig to 100~300 rpms "in" BIOS, which surely dispenses any need to use Windows or Linux programs. Since I haven't bought any Asus boards recently (If I recall correctly, I once had an Asus one about 5 years ago), I'm not really entitled to compare Asus and Asrock motherboards but I just would like to mention that Asrock motherboards have "genuine" PWM fan headers and have the full capabilities to control fan speeds to the range of 100~300 rpms (which I reckon to be truly quiet range). If you google "Asrock A-Tuning Utility", you will find out that Asrock fan control program in Windows is as good as or even better than that of Asus.

Secondly, you might want to consider other hard disks than WD20EZRX whose noise levels are 23 dBA (Idle) and 27 dBA (Seek mode) according to the following data sheet:

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/S ... 771438.pdf

Although I'm now using WD10EZRX which is almost as noisy as WD20EZRX, I would buy one of WD Blue series if I could reverse time:

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/S ... 771437.pdf

For instance, noise levels of WD5000LPVX are 17 dBA (Idle) and 22 dBA (Seek mode). Personally, I would not buy any mechanical drive in the future. They are one of the noisiest components along with VGA cards.

Thanks for the AsRock mobo tip, they do look very promising.

How come the 3.5" 5400 rpm WD Green HDDs have become significantly louder when SPCR lists the WD Green from 2009 as one of the quietest at the time (link)? The WD5000LPVX does have impressive noise levels, but it's also twice as expensive per GB than a WD20EARX.

ggumdol · **Posted:** Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:10 am

Quote:

Asrock Z87 Extreme3
... It is also unclear whether all 3 pin CHA fans can be configured individually or rather as a group ...

Individually. You can construct multiple separate piecewise linear functions for PWM or voltage of fans with respect to CPU temperature. For those who might consider Asrock motherboards for 1155 chipsets (Ivy or Sandy bridge), this richer fan control functionality in BIOS is implemented only in their motherboards for 1150 chipsets (Haswell).

lodestar · **Posted:** Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:43 am

Abula wrote:

Btw on the Asus is not 20%, its 40% at least on my Asus Maximus VI Gene.

The minimum % duty cycle for Asus motherboards that have the BIOS Silent Profile feature has always been 20%. This was changed by Asus for some of their more recent Republic Of Gamers (ROG) boards such as the Asus Maximus VI Gene. On these ROG motherboards it is set in the BIOS to something around 35%. This presumably is because the majority of the ROG user base perceive the lower fan speeds achievable at levels around 20% duty cycle as somehow not providing enough cooling. But is important to note that this is an exceptional situation and not typical of Asus motherboard BIOS control as a whole. That said, the improvement to BIOS fan control being made by Asrock on their latest Haswell boards is to be welcomed. Perhaps at some point in the future Asus might be able to incorporate all or most of the functionality of Fan Xpert 2 in the BIOS rather than as a separate piece of software, and give all OS users the benefit of it.

The other point that should be made is that PWM fan profiles are also part of the equation. Even if you have a motherboard that restricts BIOS PWM fan control to a minimum of 35% duty cycle it is still possible to achieve sub-500 rpm idle speeds with the right choice of fan. An example is the Scythe 140mm GlideStream PWM fan as fitted to the Ashura CPU cooler. This fan essentially has a built-in Silent Profile and holds the fan speed to a more or less a constant level all the way from 0 to 40%. The result is a quiet fan at idle and low system stress levels. However the complaint that has been levelled at this fan is that is does not spin up and fails to cool, when all that Scythe are doing is implementing an ancient silencing technique - sacrificing CPU and system temperatures to a degree in order to benefit from lower fan speeds and lower fan noise. It is possible to see this clearly now that SPCR is producing Fan Xpert 2 PWM fan profiles as part of both CPU cooler and case fan reviews. This is the profile for the 140mm GlideSteam PWM as published as part of the SPCR Ashura review:

Abula · **Posted:** Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:10 am

lodestar wrote:

The minimum % duty cycle for nearly all Asus motherboards that have the BIOS Silent Profile feature has always been 20%. This was changed recently by Asus for some of their more recent Republic Of Gamers (ROG) boards such as the Asus Maximus VI Gene. On these ROG motherboards it is set in the BIOS to something around 35-40%.

On silent preset is 30%, here some screenshots that should put it around 28% but i waited until i gotten the lower rpm on the bios, it will usually go +20rpm, so that should set it very close to 30%.

lodestar wrote:

But is important to note that this is an exceptional situation and not typical of Asus motherboard BIOS control as a whole. That said, the improvement to BIOS fan control being made by Asrock on their latest Haswell boards are to be welcomed. Perhaps at some point in the future Asus might be able to incorporate all or most of the functionality of Fan Xpert 2 in the BIOS rather than as a separate piece of software, and give all OS users the benefit of it.

Didnt know it was still 20% on none ROG boards, on my ROG GENE IV was 20%, but on my ROG GENE VI is 40% as the minimum on the manual preset.

lodestar wrote:

That said, the improvement to BIOS fan control being made by Asrock on their latest Haswell boards are to be welcomed. Perhaps at some point in the future Asus might be able to incorporate all or most of the functionality of Fan Xpert 2 in the BIOS rather than as a separate piece of software, and give all OS users the benefit of it.

If nothing changes ill probably build on Asrock on Skyalke, i also liked a lot the control that Asrock is giving to their users on pure bios.

lodestar wrote:

The other point that should be made is that PWM fan profiles are also part of the equation. Even if you have a motherboard that restricts BIOS PWM fan control to a minimum of 35% duty cycle it is still possible to achieve sub-500 rpm idle speeds with the right choice of fan. An example is the Scythe 140mm GlideStream PWM fan as fitted to the Ashura CPU cooler. This fan essentially has a built-in Silent Profile and holds the fan speed to a more or less a constant level all the way from 0 to 40%. The result is a quiet fan at idle and low system stress levels. However the complaint that has been levelled at this fan is that is does not spin up and fails to cool, when all that Scythe are doing is implementing an ancient silencing technique - sacrificing CPU and system temperatures to a degree in order to benefit from lower fan speeds and lower fan noise. It is possible to see this clearly now that SPCR is producing Fan Xpert 2 PWM fan profiles as part of both CPU cooler and case fan reviews. This is the profile for the 140mm GlideSteam PWM as published as part of the SPCR Ashura review:

Personally i would prefer a fan can be controlled from 0-100%, that can drop to almost 0rpm on 0%, this way with something like the Asrock motherboard you can set it the way you want it. If Asus dont remove their restriction on future generations, i'll not consider them, given that Asus FanXpert2 is the easiest way to tune/quiet fans, almost nothing is needed from the user, it comes pack with AI Suite that its far from a finish product, and specially bundle with so many things i don't need, i would prefer a stand alone FanXpert3. One point that i do dislike about AI Suite III is the way the measure the CPU temp, its werid combination of sensors that they say gives a more accurate reading, given that its not the same as any software out there (this doesn't bother me to much), but it ramps differently also, i could live with +C like an overlay, but if it scales differently then i cant adapt to it to design my desired temp graphs. My MSI Z87-GD65 works great with HWmonitor/HWinfo/CoreTemp, and the temps that i set on bios for the fan control go directly to the cores temps, really what i wished.

Another thing worth mentioning that is bad from Asus is they only offer 1 true PWM fan header, you do get two with CPU_OPT but its not controllable, its just a mirror of the CPU_FAN header, this puts it worst than MSI and AsRock that offers 2 fully controllable, and to end this, the CPU_OPT is not readable by a lot of software like HWmonitor, only with AI suite (this could be lack of support from 3rd party, but regardless its not something that will know if it happens), on MSI i can read both CPU_FAN1 (CPUFANIN) and CPU_FAN2 (SYSFANIN) on HWmonitor, this is very convenient as i have different fans on case fans and cpu.

I honestly prefer to invest more in choosing the fans and a motherboard that can control it in pure bios, and investing a little more time setting up the bios fan control, like Asrock is atm or MSI to some point.

Quiet gaming setup

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