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 Post subject: Antec P182 -> Silverstone TJ08-e (considering)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:01 am
Posts: 4
Location: Poland
Hi,

So far I'm rather happy with:
Antec P182 + Asrock P67 Extreme4 + i5-2500K (@4,4-4,5GHz + TRUE) + 2x8GB 1866Mhz + Gigabyte GTX660Ti (OC, not WF)+ Samsung 830 128GB SSD + 4 HDD (2+1+0,5+0,32GB) + Corsair HX620 + 12cm fans (mix of noiseblocker, noctua and s-flex)

What I'm considering now is to reduce size of the rig to:
Silverstone TJ08-e + uATX board + i5-2500K (@4,4-4,5GHz + TRUE) + 2x8GB 1866Mhz + Gigabyte GTX660Ti (OC, not WF)+ Samsung 830 128GB SSD + 1-2 HDD (2+?GB) + Corsair HX620

For boards I would like to have Maximus V Gene, but it is bit pricey and most of the boards available in Poland where I live are most likely refurbished. I was even considering move to Haswell, but it seems not reasonable. I just need to be sure that I can OC the CPU to the same speed I use now. I was even thinking on mITX, but then the OC is really even more troublesome.

Yet the main question is will I not loose silence on the move - the TJ08-e review mentions vibrations of HDD cage. And the smaller volume will most likely result in some more temperature-> noise. Also small space to route the HDD cables (due to CPU heatsink - yet the TRUE is more narrow than the one used in review giving few mm more.

Has anybody made such move, or had similar machines to compare - I would really appreciate your input.

_________________
i5-2500k; Asus P8Z77-M PRO; 2x8GB 1866MHz,
Gigabyte GTX 660Ti @ Sony KLD-40W5500; Xonar DX,
Samsungs: SSD 830 128GB SSD + HDD F4 320GB + HDD F4 2TB
Silverstone TJ08-e; TRUE + Scythe GlideStream 120 PWM


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P182 -> Silverstone TJ08-e (considering)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:49 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: UK
Welcome to SPCR!

If you're already rather happy with your system then why the need for change? Do you need a smaller computer now? If this is the only reason, I'd leave you to think through the value calculation here - perhaps €200 just for a smaller computer that performs the same?

I would think it would make more sense to wait. Let the next generation come out (or maybe the next one after that), then go for a new build at the smaller form factor of mATX or even MiniITX. There are technologies like DDR4 on the horizon with the Haswell-E generation of CPUs and this will offer big performance improvements.

As for motherboard, I'd avoid 'gaming' motherboards like the Maximus V Gene and Z87 chipsets don't always make sense either. They're overpriced, waste power with features you don't need and there's no reason why they will OC better within normal ranges. If you are going all out overvolting with phase change cooling, yes they will OC better but within the realms of air cooling, not worth it. There are plenty of media PC targetted boards with H87 series chipsets would do just as well at OCing within the ranges of air cooling, cost less and use less power.

In terms of silence you should be able to hit similar levels although some reports of the Silverstone 180mm fans suggest a lot of tonality but there are other 180mm fans available if you want to do a swap.

_________________
Silverstone SG03B: E8200, Asus P5E-VM HDMI, 2Gb RAM, Leadtek 9600GT+S1 rev. 2, Samsung 500Gb, Seasonic X-400, 2x Akasa 120mm, Scythe Zipang 2 fanless


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P182 -> Silverstone TJ08-e (considering)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:37 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:29 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Glasgow, UK
Welcome :)

I've just recently built a second machine (4670k, Z87I-Pro, GTX670) in a Cubitek Mini case, which is a thin-walled aluminium case - but still reasonably well built. Comparing it to my primary machine (2500k @ 4.5ghz, P8Z68-V, GTX780) in a foam-lined Solo 2, it's noticeably louder even when not overclocked or under load - the walls of the smaller, lighter case are just not as good at blocking noise as my sound-proofed Solo 2. This despite the face that the small case only has 2 fans while my Solo 2 has 4.

However, the main point of the smaller machine was to have something more portable than the Solo 2, and since it's about a third of the weight, mission was accomplished. So basically the choice is yours - going to a smaller, lighter, less-built-like-a-tank case will most likely result in a noisier machine, especially under gaming load. However if you don't need to move your PC very often, I would stay with the Antec case. They're really very good for noise control.

_________________
i5 2500k @ 4.5ghz | Asus P8Z68-V | PNY GTX780 | 32gb DDR3 | SSD & HDD| Antec Solo 2
i5 4670k @ 4.3ghz | Asus P87I-Pro | MSI GTX670 | 8gb DDR3 | SSD & HDD | Cubitek Mini Cube


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P182 -> Silverstone TJ08-e (considering)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:09 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:49 pm
Posts: 1196
Location: UK
mentawl wrote:
Cubitek Mini case, which is a thin-walled aluminium case

The Silverstone TJ08 is steel and quite a bit bigger than the Cubitek so it is perhaps more difficult to compare. There certainly are smaller form factor cases that do keep noise in mind.

_________________
Silverstone SG03B: E8200, Asus P5E-VM HDMI, 2Gb RAM, Leadtek 9600GT+S1 rev. 2, Samsung 500Gb, Seasonic X-400, 2x Akasa 120mm, Scythe Zipang 2 fanless


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P182 -> Silverstone TJ08-e (considering)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1890
Location: Guatemala
Personally i didn't have much issues with noise on TJ08-E, given that the case is not meant for quiet operation, you can achieve a pretty decent setup with it, the biggest problem is the frontal fan, which at stock (1200rpm) is very loud, even using the switch on the side to low setting (900rpm), still very noticeable, below 700rpm starts to become a wosh, and around 500rpm is pretty decent fan imo, i couldn't hear any clicking nor motor noise, still not dead silent as its beside a mesh, so air will still do a small wosh, but to me was good enough like that, user to user this varies.

With the motherboard, the GENE V is a sure nice motherboard, i had the GENE IV and GENE VI, the GENE IV had issues with fanXpert to be able to control the frontal fan, but the GENE VI is pretty good with FanXpert2, it manages to drop down the frontal fan to 470rpms where to me its very quiet. That said, i think the GENE V has FanXpert2 but im not sure if it will totally work like the one that comes with Asus AI SUITE III, my guess is it will be the same, but idk for sure, if its not be prepared to undervolt heavily the frontal fan. I also agree with comments above in terms if you can find a lower price Asus motherboard with FanXpert2 go for it.

HDDs, i never installed more than 1, i initially started with a Samsung 7200rpm 500gb (dont remember the model), the drive had a click on startup, this click was very loud and could be heard every time i started my PC, so the TJ08-E will not dampen much, but once it started, i could never hear the drive seeking or even writing, if there was a noise from it i couldn't hear it mounted on the bottom slot. In time i moved into a 2.5 Hitachi 7k1000 also 7200rpm that vibrates some, but very low noise seeking, i mounted on 3.5 no vibe that has a suspension, and i also couldn't hear anything on it, but all my mechanical hdds are only used for storage, no programs are installed on them, so there is barely any use on them. That said, i recommend you if you can to slowly start getting rid of the 4 hdds you own and go into 1, WD RED 3tb is a pretty solid drive, and the bottom cage will not interfere with coolers on the TJ08-E, you still have a bottom case ssd mount to have both at the same time. You can also suspend one or two hdds on the 5.25 on top if you are into that, i personally think buying a quiet enough hdd is good enough for the TJ08-E.

Now remember the TJ08-E even if its made of steel is not as solid as the 182, the side panels steel but a little thin compare to antec usual (not the 182 but others like solo ii, 1200, etc). Overall i still think its a fine, even SPCR gave it the Editors Choice on their review, SilverStone Temjin TJ08-E: MicroATX Evolved, but its not a case to plan on it alone helping you deal with noisy components, chose careful and be prepared, and you should end up with a decently quiet setup. Another suggestion if you dont want to upgrade the hdds and willing to stay with 2, is to build on a SOLO II, it comes with hdd suspension so it should be pretty decent and you probably wont need to buy another motherboard.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P182 -> Silverstone TJ08-e (considering)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:01 am
Posts: 4
Location: Poland
Thank you very much for your advice - further also welcomed :)

I'm still into smaller pc - but really considering different options.
For now i dropped idea of upgrading to Haswell - performance gain is too small.
Still I'm rather into mATX not ITX - so probably Asus P8Z77-M PRO seems good solution.
For the Case - am rather into height and depth reduction and not width. and on these Antec Solo II has respectively 18% and 22% over Silverstone.

Basically I would like to place case on shelf above TV (that i use as a monitor) so the depth is crucial - in case of TJ it would need to be facing the side, not front due to 385 mm not fitting into 300 mm shelf. I was even considering the horizontal cases but I do not really like it too much (or they are as well to large). I was considering the BitFenix Prodigy M, but it seems bit awkward on PSU positioning.
There are some more cubical cases but I haven't found one capable of handling my components and quiet. Seems that TJ with damping (Silverstone SST-SF01) is somehow most appealing option.

One note @edh: Intel Hxx chipset does not support CPU overclocking, so no option for me. I run my 2500K around 4,4-4,5 GHz and not willing to give up on that even if I would move to Haswell.

Update:
OK, end note for other asking similar question, as I realized my idea and purchased Asus P8Z77-M PRO and Silverstone TJ08-e mainly on the case:
- it seems fair tradeoff - much smaller and elegant in some ways, but the metal is bit thin (relatively to P182) but it is sufficient for a size.
- building it is nicer IMHO - at least more fun
- HDD are issue - the HDD cage have some foam on inner side but still performs pretty poor - I've ended up with one drive on the bottom fixed cage (FDD area) and one on 5,25" bay below optical drive
- big fan seems to work at minimum of 40% and on high setting it is tad too loud with that - on low it seems ok

_________________
i5-2500k; Asus P8Z77-M PRO; 2x8GB 1866MHz,
Gigabyte GTX 660Ti @ Sony KLD-40W5500; Xonar DX,
Samsungs: SSD 830 128GB SSD + HDD F4 320GB + HDD F4 2TB
Silverstone TJ08-e; TRUE + Scythe GlideStream 120 PWM


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