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 Post subject: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned system
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:17 am
Posts: 4
Hi,
I want to sell my Laptop (Dell studio 1555) - because I believe it wants me to commit suicide - for a Desktop Pc.

I´m very sensitive with rush and noise from electrical devices and don´t want to hear it.

I am open to AMD and other brands and other/different online stores, I will give a short explanation why I chose which Part afterwards.
Here is what I chose:

- 1) SilverStone ST50NF, Netzteil, silber, 2x PCIe
- 2) Kingston SSDNow V300 2,5" SSD 240 GB, SV300S37A/240G
- 3) Crucial DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1866 Kit, Arbeitsspeicher, Ballistix Tactical
- 4) AMD FX-8320, CPU, "Vishera", boxed
- 5) ASRock 970 Extreme4, Mainboard, Sound, G-LAN, SATA3, eSATA, FW, USB3
- 6) be quiet! Dark Rock Advanced C1, CPU-Kühler
- 7) Noctua NF-S12A ULN, Gehäuselüfter, braun, 3-Pin-/5,25"-Anschluss
- 8 ) ASUS GT610-SL-1GD3L, Grafikkarte, HDMI, DVI, VGA, Retail
- 9) case ???

If you click on this link you should see all this items:
https://www.alternate.at/html/cart.html?cartId=98564&cmd=loadSentCart

1) Seems just right for me, as it is fanless 500W
2) I think here is also nothing done wrong with that one
3) I don´t know this brand, but the reviews look good, and the price is the best for a 1866Mhz (do I need that, or isn´t that so important?)
4) I took a look at the Benchmark tests and chose that one, because it is quite cheap and seems to be really fast. (125W cooling might be a problem? Do I need such a quick Cpu in relation to the other hw, can I get the full potential out of it?)
5) No idea how much I should spent for the motherboard... Just chose that, because I need a 6pole Firewire and it can handle the AM3+ socket.
6) I took a look at the dB values, and that one was the most silent. Heard some good things about it.
7) Same here, most silent ones, big and quite alright airflow
8 ) I don´t need much graphic, never play any Games. Only one thing to mark out: 2 Displays at the same time would be nice.
9)A friend of mine offered me an Apple Tower case for free, do you know if the parts would fit in there principally?

I want to use the Pc as a quick reliant Multimedia Pc, but also use it for Sound editing programs like Cubase, Samplitude and Matlab programming. So Plug-ins should work well and quick. I have an external Soundcard (Focusrite Saffire Le), so the onboard soundcard doesn´t have to be anything special.

Budget maximum for everything is about 900€ (the assembly I have listed above is about 700€ all together)

I hope I didn´t forget anything important.
I would be thankful if you can tell me your opinion.

Greets Lorenz


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 Post subject: Re: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned syste
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:27 am
Posts: 1728
Location: Switzerland
You may not like my advice but here it is: get someone local to you who's got some experience and some kind of track record to help you. Pay for the help if need be. A hobby can be fun but your professional tool shouldn't be your first project.

This is no way to pick a CPU for professional use for instance: "I took a look at the Benchmark tests and chose that one, because it is quite cheap and seems to be really fast."
Do you even know what kind of single-threaded performance you'll need? I don't because I don't use your software so I'm not going to give you specific advice.


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 Post subject: Re: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned syste
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4719
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Welcome to SPCR. There are a couple of other DAW threads in the forums this week. You should check them out. Here are a few comments:

-PSU: 80+ Bronze efficiency and fanless are a very bad combination. Look for a Gold/Platinum efficiency PSU. There are both passive designs as well as ones that only turn the fan on at moderate/higher loads. Seasonic X400 is a good start.

- CPU:
- Figure out how much horsepower you truly need for your apps. Are you doing orchestral sized arrangements or working with a handful of tracks? The Vishera is cheap, but it's also a power hog. The more power your system consumes, the more waste heat has to be expelled from the case -> more/faster fans/faster CPU fan -> louder.
- Figure out if the CPU/mobo is compatible with your apps. For example, DPC latency is a big deal for DAWs. I don't know how well Vishera does. Haswell may have some issues, but there may also be work arounds.
- If you go with an Intel i5/i7 you won't need a video card.

- CPU cooler: figure out the CPU and case, first.

- Apple Tower case should go to the recycler. Get a PC case that meets ATX or mATX specifications. A couple of nice all around cases are the Fractal Design Define R4 (ATX) and the Fractal Define Mini (mATX). The Antec Solo II is a great case as well.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned syste
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:17 am
Posts: 4
Thank you so far for your answers!

I read the DAW threads and made a new list of components.

Concerning the Cpu i5-4670: Is it worth to buy the K version? I read it is mainly the overclocking possibility that differs them?! (I do not plan to overclock)
It´s more a handful of tracks that I want to handle, so I think it doesn´t have to be an i7, if there is not a big difference.
I read about the DPC problems and that they should be able to fix if there are any.

http://de.pcpartpicker.com/user/loorenz/saved/32Gc

Is it worth to get the highest Mhz for the RAM? Is it enough to have a look at the mobo for the supported ones or is there any other hw that it should suit with?

Thanks again for your advice!


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 Post subject: Re: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned syste
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4719
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
The parts list looks fine except for the RAM. Intel CPUs don't need speedy memory. DDR3 1600 is the sweet spot unless you are a crazed overclocker. There is maybe a few percent benefit for some memory intensive apps with DDR 1833. Beyond that, it's just throwing euros away. Also, DDR3 RAM doesn't use much power. So, the tall heatspreader's only function is to get in the way of some CPU coolers. :)

No benefit to getting the K CPU unless you want to overclock.

Here are two alternative coolers available through Amazon.de. Both should outperform (better temps at lower SPL) the Be Quiet!:
Noctua NH-U12S
Scythe Mugen 4

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned syste
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:57 am 
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 11:23 am
Posts: 684
Location: Germany
PSU: If passive then Superflower or Seasonic, everything else is not up to professional duty.

CPU: Definitly Intel. The AMD is no match for any i5, even if overclocked. And if you oc the AMD for a little catch up, you'll be punished by insane power consumption. A Vishera-CPU roughly uses 50-80 Watt more when taxed. And even when idling, the power difference is noticeable. If really needing more look at the latest small Xeon 12XX V3.

SSD: I only recommend Samsung or Intel for professional builds (personal preference)

CPU-Cooler: Have a look at the NoFan, since you use no VGA or try semi-passive with a Macho and a nearby case fan. But the Mugen4 is a good choice and could as well work with a nearby case fan.

Case: If going NoFan, you should probably go with a NoFan case. If not, R4 is a good choice or any Nanoxia DS modell

Mobo: No need for a Z87 if not using a K cpu, chose a solid H87

RAM: Intel CPUs normally don't get performance boosts from insane quick RAM. So 1833MHz or slightly faster will do.

Bottom line: Save on the Mobo and spend on reliability at PSU and SSD.

PS: I do a lot of price research at www.geizhals.at


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 Post subject: Re: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned syste
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:17 am
Posts: 4
Alright, thank you again for your tips, I chose the cheaper mobo and like the idea with the NoFan solution.
I already planed that one, but of course it wasn´t able to handle the 125w of the AMD.

But do you really think it will be able to cool the i5-4670 (88W) enough with the NoFan CR-95C Copper? That would mean about 50€ more for me, but I would have no Fan at all! :-) http://www.quietpc.com/search?q=95
For the case I would choose the cheaper one: cs-30 http://www.quietpc.com/nof-cs-30

Right now the total would be 808€, maybe a little less when I do some price research.


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 Post subject: Re: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned syste
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:17 am
Posts: 4
Please help me one last time with my last question, because I would like to order ;-)
Thanks a lot!


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 Post subject: Re: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned syste
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4719
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Here's a review from X-bit Labs. They used a 95W CPU and didn't have any issues. A couple of caveats:
- Haswell runs hotter than Sandy Bridge due to the inferior IHS. Should be a non-issue.
- no fans means no cooling for your motherboard's VRM circuitry. No cooling means a little less efficient (a few watts). If they get too warm...and don't know if they will, it will throttle your CPU.
- doesn't look like there are 3.5" drive bays....if you later need one, you'd have to improvise.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: silent Pc for a sound engineer, advice for planned syste
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11943
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I'd pass on the Nofan cooler. You still need a case fan anyway, and you'll have something like 13-15 dBA@1m from that. Having one of the other mentioned fanned coolers -- Noctua, Sycthe -- at low speed will hardly add anything to this base noise level while improving your cooling by well over 10C at higher loads, including the mobo parts.

Completely fanless is best for lower power (read: cooler) machines, a little quiet airflow is way better for higher power ones. Yours, virtually any DAW, is almost by definition not a low power machine.

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