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 Post subject: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 18
OK, finally pieced together a build, based on an 11-watt idle low noise build.

case : Aerocool DS
CPU : i5-4670
PSU : Corsair RM650
CPU cooler : Mugen 4 PCGH
memory : 16GB Kingston Valueram (2*8GB)
HDD : Samsung SSD EVO 240 256GB
GPU : MSI GTX 780 TwinFrozr Gaming 3 GB (optional, has to be able to fit whatever system I finally build )
motherboard : Intel Desktop Board DH87RL

I understand that Intel is withdrawing from the motherboard market? The board is hard to get here, or long waiting time. Any alternative is welcome, not intending to overclock, so any H87 or Z87 board suggestions are welcome. Good on low power consumption, decent fan management if deemed necessary, good components. Mini itx is no problem, that would however mean I could use a Node 304 case.


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:54 am
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As no-one was eager to respond I took it more as a hint to rethink it over a couple of times. I did, and I looked at the pricing too at the same time.

CPU : i5-4570
PSU : Corsair RM450
CPU cooler : Mugen 4
memory : Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP 2*4GB
HDD : Samsung SSD EVO 240 250GB
motherboard : Asus H87I-Plus
case : Fractal Design Node 304 White

As you can see, it's pretty much toned down a bit I guess. Powersupplu might be on the big side for this build, but I want to keep the option of adding a dedicated GPU later without the need of a new PSU. The only thing I am still doubting about is the case, I like it : small, white makes it blend into the background a bit. But the Bitfenix Prodigy comes in a wondefull green, unfortunately a great deal bigger than the Fractal case.


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:52 am 
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Location: Guatemala
I like more the second build, i really would love to build on a node 304.

On the CPU i like more the i5 4670, its $20 difference most of the time, but has higher base clocks and higher turbo, weather its worth the extra $$$ its up to you.

On a build like your planning, the Asus mini itx is ideal in terms of the cpu socket placement, Asus mini itx from ivy bridge and haswell allow almost any cooler to be installed on them, i seen twin towers and still fit fine, even with a gpu.

Now my suggestions on the build are not money friendly and im going to suggest you spend a llittle more, weather you need it or not its up to you, but this is how i would have builded mine, disregard my suggestions if you planning on using the the built in fan controller on the node304. The H87-Plus only has 2 fan headers (CPU_FAN and CHA_FAN), the case has 3 fans, 1x 140mm and 2x 92mm, but they are different not only in size but into the range of operation. For this reason i would chose a fan that its similar to the CPU heatsink fan, so i can use a Y adaptor and run both fans from the same header (CPU_FAN), and i would also get a Y splitter for two frontal fans and run them both from the other header (CHA_FAN), this will allow you to controll all 4 fans with 2 headers and use fanXpert2 to lower them to the their lowest possible and end up with a very quiet setup. With this in mind, i would chose Noctua NH-U14S, the cooler was reviewed by SPCR Noctua NH-U14S Slim 140mm Tower Cooler, and got the editors choice, and for the back fan i would use Noctua NF-A14 PWM, the fans are very similar, what really changes is the frame, but each will work on their spot, the rpm range and % pwm operation is identical, so controlling them both with the same PWM fan header (CPU_FAN) should net the same rpms under the same % pwm, all will be handled by FanXpert2, the fan comes with the Y splitter already included on the box, so no need to buy anything extra. And for the frontal fans, you can keep the included if you wish, and just use a Y fan splitter, like Silverstone Tek Sleeved PWM Fan Splitter Cable (CPF01), both fans are identical so fanXpert2 should control them both equally, same rpms same voltage on a given load, etc.

If you were to chose what i suggested, then install fanXpert2 and let it control the fans, run the fan tunning option and it will test the fan, stablish the minimums, and set it up, this you can change to your liking if you want more rpms on a given temperature. I leave you a couple of fanXpert2 of the fans you will have so you can decide what you want to do,

Image

Image

Image

I dont see any mechanical hdds on your build, if you dont plan on using any, then install the ssd on the front of the case, check [Official] Fractal Design Node 304 Owners Club, for ideas for the build, there are tons of builds there, with different cooler and where you will also find how the mounted the ssd on the front.

And for a dedicated GPU, if you dont have anything demanding, i would chose MSI GTX 750 Ti Gaming OC N750TI TF 2GD5/OC, check the following reivew for more info, TechPowerUp MSI GTX 750 Ti Gaming 2 GB, and it should still be a very quiet and gaming capable build.

Good luck,

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 18
Thanks, yes the noctua I had looked at, but it does has a significant cost attached to it. In terms of cooling/quietness it doesn't look all that different.

If I understand correctly, I should get the backfan + CPU fan on same header, let that control it. Probably the reason I need 2 similar/same fans.

I'll give the fractal owners forum a look, see if I can find some similar setups there. Get back to you on that :)


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1987
Location: Guatemala
Director9 wrote:
If I understand correctly, I should get the backfan + CPU fan on same header, let that control it.
You dont need to get anything at all, the case comes with fans and a fan controller, what i posted is what i would do, there is no need for going aftermarket after you test what included.

Director9 wrote:
Probably the reason I need 2 similar/same fans.
You dont need to get the same, i prefer to, mostly because when you use a splitter the signal will be the same, so there are fans that can go very low like Noctuas NF-A14 / NF-A15, if you place let say a fan like for example an Thermalright TY143, both fans are 140s, but the noctuas drop to 13% PWM, while the TY143 drops to 35%, for both to spin you will need to run both at the minimum of 35%, making the noctua run faster than it needs out of the restriction that the TY143 places on the header.

I suggested the Noctua out of the option for a very good PWM fan for the back, both have the same motor and same PWM design, its just the frame that its different, the retail NF-A15 is slightly slower (like using the LNA adapter on NF-A14), but the fan included on the U14S is not the same, its basically the same as the NF-A14. Now you could go with Mugen 4 if you were to be able to find a glidestream PWM that its the similar to the included on the mugen4 (to my recollection the one sold atm is faster, reaches like 1900rpms while the included its like 1300rpms). Overall its not a big deal, but i prefer when using a splitter to run very similar fans.

If you don't want to spend money, and if you are set on the mugen4, what i would do is run the two frontal 92mm fans on the CHA_FAN header with the splitter i posted before, and the glidestream (mugen4 fan) on the CPU_FAN header, and connecting the back fan to the included fan controller of the case. This way you can drop the Fractal R2 140 to about 400rpm on the fan controller, the Scythe glidestream should drop very similar to that as well, and the two frontal Fractal 92mm will drop to what i posted above in the graph, around 546rpms.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 18
The money is worth spending, but the price increase is pretty hefty, I can get the Asus Z87i-Pro with 4 fancontrol headers with that extra money. Just don't know if the Mugen would fit it.


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1987
Location: Guatemala
Director9 wrote:
The money is worth spending, but the price increase is pretty hefty, I can get the Asus Z87i-Pro with 4 fancontrol headers with that extra money. Just don't know if the Mugen would fit it.
Its a nice motherboard but aim more for OCing comunity with the extra daughterboard, but really nice having a single CPU_FAN and 3x CHA_FAN headers, so you could control individually each fan, with this motherboard i would try the stock fans first and see if you like what FanXpert2 would drop them to, still its a very expensive motherboard compared to the H87i. I searched the OCN node 304 thread and no one has built it with the Mugen, so hard to say if it will fit with the daughterboard.

Now while i was at OCN thread i found some post that might be worth checking,

brbi post #2812, mounts 2.5 hdds and ssds sideways, doesnt seem hard to do.
mbondPDX post #2633, mounts a Noctua NH-D14, has a single side picture.
siggie30 post #1641, Another NH-D14 but no cages or bar.
Dan000 post #2826, Another NH-D14 same, no cage nor bar.
theMetal post #2485, mounts a Phantek PH-TC14, on Asus mobo with a daughterboard.
xrfx post #1976, Another Phantek PH-TC14, but on an AMD mobo.
MetallicAcid post #2235, mounts the ssd on the front of the case.
utee05 post #2335, mounts an Noctua NH-U14S on Asrock mobo, on the asus should be more centered, but no daughterboard to know if it interferes.
dakkadakka post #2781, replaced the mesh on the intake and added a filter to the side with DemCi Filters.
M125 post #2135, Interesting post about the H87i into how the chokes are close to the CPU socket, cross check the cooler you buy will not have issues with this.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


Last edited by Abula on Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 18
It is a very expensive board, but like I said, the extra cost with the noctua that extra is nearly reduced. If I'd take your advice and replace the backfan also then the price is on par.

I'll take a lot at those links, thx for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:54 am
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I would like to step up to the Z87 board, get some more fancontrol. However, I forgot about wanting to run linux on it :)

Similar programs available to set the fanspeed in linux as fanxpert2, or is it possible to achieve it in the bios setup?


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1987
Location: Guatemala
For any none Windows based OS, i would plan on BIOS fan control, but be careful, as some bios have higher restrictions others. I tried Asus, and while its not bad, it has way to high restrictctions on the CPU fan, if i remember correctly 40%, then i tried MSI and i like it much more, for two reasons, CPU_FAN1 and CPU_FAN2 have a 12.5% as the minium restriction (on 4pin PWM), and that it has 2 real PWM headers, so i used one for the CPU fan and the other for the CASE fans (with a 4pin PWM splitter). AsRock also seem to have very good PWM fan control on pure bios, from what another SPCR forum member posted, it seems any % is reachable with increments of 1%, with multiple breakpoints, so is kinda like a fanXpert2 on pure bios (without the fancy testing and settings, here you have to set it up).

Something that i didnt tested was CHA_FAN headers, so idk how they really work under bios. CA_Steve has his build on his signature and he used some of the MSI CHA_FAN headers for the Antec True Quiet 140, giving him a 50% restriction (if i remember correctly), persnally i prefer using only PWM fans and using the splitter, but to each to its own.

One thing that you do have to realize is that most mini itx mobos have only 2 fan headers, in most cases, one CPU_FAN and CHA_FAN (or SYS_FAN), only the higher end mobos come with more, and even then its hard to say without going into specifics into if they are real pwm fan headers or fake 3pin, so do your research on the mobo before committing.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


Last edited by Abula on Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3149
Location: ITALY
Director9 wrote:
Similar programs available to set the fanspeed in linux as fanxpert2,


AFAIK there is not such a solution under Linux.


Director9 wrote:
or is it possible to achieve it in the bios setup?


AFAIK with a good BIOS (as seen in the more refined models from Intel, MSI, ASUS and ASRock) you can do enough, even under Linux.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 567
Location: de_DE
quest_for_silence wrote:
Director9 wrote:
Similar programs available to set the fanspeed in linux as fanxpert2,


AFAIK there is not such a solution under Linux.

Ahem: lm_sensors. pwmconfig & fancontrol. Same effect but no GUI.

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Lian Li V600, Asus P77Z-M Pro, i5-3570K 4.4GHz with Scythe Orochi, 140mm Slipstream 500RPM and Mugen2 115X Bolt through kit,
Evga GTX 670 FTW+ 4GB with Thermalright Spitfire and Thermalright TY-150 500-800RPM, Seasonic 460W Platinum Fanless


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:53 am 
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boost wrote:
Ahem: lm_sensors. pwmconfig & fancontrol. Same effect but no GUI.


I've tinkered around them more than a while, but unfortunately I was never able (even recently) to let them work properly.
But if you have any comprehensive guide (or link to) to do so, well, I will be very glad to learn, boost.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:21 am 
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Location: de_DE
Fan control under Linux (lm-sensors, pwmconfig, fancontrol)

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Lian Li V600, Asus P77Z-M Pro, i5-3570K 4.4GHz with Scythe Orochi, 140mm Slipstream 500RPM and Mugen2 115X Bolt through kit,
Evga GTX 670 FTW+ 4GB with Thermalright Spitfire and Thermalright TY-150 500-800RPM, Seasonic 460W Platinum Fanless


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:44 am 
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OK, so there are possibilities to have some fancontrol :)

ordered, hope to have it all by this coming WE

Samsung 250GB 840 Evo MZ-7TE250BW € 126,00
Fractal Design Node 304 FD-CA-NODE-304-WH € 67,50
Intel Core i5-4670 BX80646I54670 € 191,50
ASUS Z87I-Pro 90MB0H30-M0EAY5 € 142,00
Corsair RM450, EU CP-9020066-EU € 80,01
Scythe Mugen 4 SCMG-4000 € 37,99
Crucial 8GB DDR3 PC3-12800 BLS2C4G3D1609ES2LX0CEU € 63,01


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:08 am 
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It's been a while, had to wait nearly 2 weeks to get the order in.

The SSD makes it pretty silent tbh, very happy with that.

About the fancontrole. The linux way with lmsensors and stuff can't see them, maybe a BIOS thing or else the board isn't supported(yet). A pity, because Asus has a min restriction of 60%, which is quite a lot. Why don't they implement the same amount of controle in the BIOS as they do in their Fanxpert2 program :(

So yes, there is still some noise from the air movement.

Next step I'll undertake :

- setup a dualboot with windows, and use fanxpert2, see the effects on that
- stop using the frontfans
- replace the rearfan with a PWM one


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:15 pm 
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small update :

got a pointer to a driver, installed it, and presto, monitoring fine now.

Fancontrole is now in charge, the CPU fan running on 190rpm instead of 700rpm on idle.


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 Post subject: Re: Build advice appreciated
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:18 pm 
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congrats!

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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