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 Post subject: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Hello Girls and Guys,

Wanting a silent PC, I bought an Antec P182 and an Enermax Gold 450?w power supply about seven years ago, being cash rich and not wanting to buy CPU, MB and RAM until I needed them.

Sadly, through illness, they stayed unopened in their boxes, until now.

Having now bought a (supposedly super-quiet) TS140 from Lenovo at a bargain price after Cashback, with 4GB ECC RAM and 1TB enterprise level HDD, but not much room for expansion, I'm thinking of putting it all into the Antec box and upgrading to 32TB RAM, a SSD, and eventually another 10+ drives.

I am very aware of USB 1.0 to 3.0 progression, and various video codecs, but are there any other reasons why I shouldn't use a 7-year old carcass for a machine that I want to use for ten years (minimum) into the future? Is ATX still ATX? Etc. Am I missing an elephant? Or has progress slowed so much?

Thank you for your replies in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:39 pm 
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oldchassis wrote:
Is ATX still ATX? Etc. Am I missing an elephant?

The mobo power connectors should be not-ATX ones (not to mention you should miss any decent fan control with that board).

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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:41 am 
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From the photos online, the MB of the TS140 looks to have standard m-ATX mounting holes. You likely could physically mount it in a P182.

However that is where the good news ends:

- Proprietary power connector. Looks like the board runs entirely off of 12V and does the conversion to lower voltages on board instead of in the PSU. Also the peripheral power distribution appears to be from the MB as well, not the PSU directly. There is little chance that it could handle the load of 10+ drives.
- Hard to see, but probably proprietary USB and front panel connectors.
- Non standard backplate.
- Not enough SATA for 10+ drives.

TL DR: It won't work without a lot of hacking.


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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:11 am 
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The TS-140 is an entry level server box, so no standards, just Lenovo.

If you can manage to connect the PSU, you should be fine, but don't be surprised to run into problems, because all servers from Dell, HP, Fujitsu and Lenovo tend to have proprietary stuff/connectors/fans.

So good luck and please report back if you managed to get it runnning.


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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:41 am 
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Location: London, Europe
Thanks for the info.

The deal was so cheap, that the mobo, case, power supply, DVD and RAM were effectively free. The chip - Intel Xeon E3-1226 V3 (3.3GHz 8MB L3 Cache 1600MHz) was more expensive than the system. UK only I'm afraid http://www.serversplus.com/servers/towe ... 70a50022uk

I want to try some virtualisation using Xen/Qubes-OS or VMWare/ESXi. I'm not expecting vast amounts of users, max three. Security is important, both data and user.

So, if a new motherboard is required - can I still use the Enermax PS? It was pricy and came with lots of extras. Or has the tech moved on? Are the connectors universally different? Are there adapters? What is the new standard called?

If I remember correctly, the case wasn't so dependent on fans. If I use SSDs for OS etc and only have data storage on HDDs, might I go fanless, or minimum fan. It is a big case and it's not too hot around here. I mention 10 drives, but I doubt more than 4 would ever run at the same time. I suspect that before I got to 5 drives, it'll all be going PCIe connected SSDs rather than SATA anyway.

Are there any motherboards/type of motherboards (remembering VT-x and VT-d compatability) you recommend? I know this IBM one is very fussy re hw.

Or is this more trouble than it's worth? I have a more than adequate server that will last me at least a couple of years, which doesn't sound like a server - it is less noisy than my laptop.


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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:57 am 
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oldchassis wrote:
can I still use the Enermax PS?

Providing it's a 12V-centric unit, yes.


oldchassis wrote:
Or has the tech moved on?

I guess the only concern could be the C6/C7 power states compatibility?


oldchassis wrote:
Are the connectors universally different? Are there adapters? What is the new standard called?

ATX/EPS12V PSUs have ATX/EPS12V connectors, as well as contemporary ATX mobos (the Lenovo's one isn't an ATX mobo, just the mounting holes seem compatible).


oldchassis wrote:
might I go fanless

Not with an Haswell CPU, unless you delidd it.


oldchassis wrote:
it'll all be going PCIe connected SSDs rather than SATA anyway.

5 PCIe SSDs? Are you that rich? And do your next mobo have 5 PCIe connectors?

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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:54 pm 
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I wouldn't reuse a 5+ year old PSU in any important build.
A used PSU is the most risky/dangerous part you could put in a PC.

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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:57 pm 
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Thanks Luca for replying yet again.

Thank you for your detailed answers. Not sure what any of them mean, but hopefully you've put me on the right track. I will search.

"5 PCIe SSDs? Are you that rich? And do your next mobo have 5 PCIe connectors?"

These SSDs will be way cheaper than HDDs are today in a few (5) years time, which is when I intend to buy them, and plugging 5 into 1 socket won't be problematical. We're only using PCIe-1 not 8 or 16, so I could be wrong, but it seems there could be loads more potential. Everything else will be different by then anyway.

Yet again thanks for your kind reply.

"I wouldn't reuse a 5+ year old PSU in any important build. A used PSU is the most risky/dangerous part you could put in a PC."

That's exactly my question. The case and power supply have never been used. Factory sealed. But were/are? top quality. So I don't want to "waste" them.

Could pricier older tech be better than newer cheaper stuff? That is my question.

In "my" day, it would've been ludicrous to even consider using 7 year old (new) kit for use for many years into the future. Software used everything that Hardware could provide to the max. Moore's Law meant everything had to be bought new every 3 years.

I'm typing this on a 7 year old Asus eee 901 pc, a so-called netbook (grossly underpowered and ludicrously cheap at the time - although I did double its RAM), but it's only in recent months that I've felt the need to upgrade (due to lowest quality youtube stuttering). Curiously 720p plays fine on vlc.

Having said all that, on buying a new high-quality laptop, and assuming you want the best features, it seems like the industry has matured to be similar to the car trade:

- Business buys new top end - money is no object - tax write-off.

- Sucker buys crap at high price.

- Enthusiast goes broke and gets divorced, if ever they were espoused.

- Wise person buys top end from Business who "needs to replace for tax reasons".

If only we could be sure that these were safe.

All we need is a sort of IT "Little Tree".


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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:42 am 
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oldchassis wrote:
plugging 5 into 1 socket won't be problematical. We're only using PCIe-1 not 8 or 16

I'm not sure about what you meant, BTW current PCIe SSDs usually use M.2 or PCIe 2.0 x4 interfaces.


oldchassis wrote:
Could pricier older tech be better than newer cheaper stuff? That is my question.

IMO/IME yes (providing they are cross-compatible: it itsn't the Lenovo-case).
OTOH, I didn't understand which Enermax PSU you actually own.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:40 am 
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missed that it was still in new condition. party on!

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 Post subject: Re: Using new old hardware - More on Moore from a Moron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:26 pm 
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Quote:
I'm not sure about what you meant, BTW current PCIe SSDs usually use M.2 or PCIe 2.0 x4 interfaces

I am by no no means an expert: I am a self proclaimed moron.

That the current mobo is limited to 5 SATA drives, is a given.

From the limited research that I partook before this venture, I was convinced of one thing: SATA is a PITA for new SSDs.

The PCIe channels unused by non-gamers such as myself, are obvious squat territory. I suspect that this will be short-term camping however, before longer term accommodation is secured.

After all, the purpose of PCI and then PCIe is to cater for the "extra" - not just the additional, the unusual, the unexpected, but also the undreamed of: so having it overwhelmed by tedious (albeit silent) drives would be desirous for no-one. There will be extra SSD ports soon.

Back in the real world, is the Lenovo/IBM mobo as delightful? As expected - graphics and wifi problems. Any alternatives out there? I would love a mobo to do this right.

As to the exact Enermax model, Thunderbird has failed me - it was too long ago. Hopefully next week I'll get someone to take me upstairs and bring it down. It was very expensive and had dozens of cables. And was revolutionary - it claimed.

The trend from the replies that I've had so far seem to uphold my thesis: that high quality specced kit is holding its own longer than it did in the Moore days.

Buying locked in kit and expecting it to be expandable is foolish however. Nevertheless I might still give it a try. Thanks for all your replies and suggestions.


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