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 Post subject: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:02 am
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I find myself suddenly in need of what is essentially a new computer as my old system based on an E7200 recently failed. I decided that it made sense to upgrade the core of the computer and so I am going to be adding a new motherboard, CPU, and RAM to some of my older components in an attempt to save some money.

Since I have not built a computer in a very long time and I have a short window of time I can put this all together I was hoping for the advice of the board to save me from any particularly egregious mistakes. So here is the current plan…

The system is used for moderate gaming, office work, and some light photo/video editing. I am running a dual monitor set-up with two 1920x1200@60H monitors and my typical games have been things like BF4, Civilization, and Skyrim - though I only run games currently on a single monitor. The most intensive game I know I will be playing in the near future is Star Citizen and it requires a quad-core processor. (Might like to run both together in the future when I have the need and the cash to upgrade the video card.)

The components I currently have are:

Video Card HIS iSilence H775P1GD Radeon HD 7750 1GB
Power Supply Seasonic SS-380HB
OS SSD Mushkin Chronos 120 GB SATA 6.0 Gb-s 2.5-Inch Solid State Drive (MKNSSDCR120GB)
Hard Drive SAMSUNG HD753LJ (750 GB)
Hard Drive 2 WDC WD5000AACS-00ZUB0 (500 GB)
Front Panel Syba 3.5-Inch Front Bay USB 3.0 Expansion Port and Card Reader (SY-HUB50044)
CPU Cooler Arctic Cooling Freezer 11 LP Heatsink with 92 mm PWM Fan
Case Antec Solo with 120mm Scythe Typhoon

My total budget for this is ~$350 which I think should enable me to get a really nice core system and can upgrade later. If I can get the core system and the video card in the budget that would be great, but I want this system to last for 3-5 years at least so my assumption is that I would be better putting the money into the MB/CPU/RAM at this point since the 7750 runs what I currently play well enough.

CPU - Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($159 at Frys until 8/21)

MB - Ugh… I get lost here after not having built in a long time. My first thought is to go with:
Asus H97-PLUS ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($105) OR the Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($144)

I could really use some advice and comparisons here as I don't have a lot of reasoning behind these choices other than reading generally positive reviews and others picking these in the forum. I don't generally do a lot of overclocking but it always nice to have the flexibility.

RAM - Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($78)

Total Cost: $342 or $378 with the Z97

The whole system can be seen here at Partpicker... http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mr6dGX

When I run this all through Partpicker it lists my total power draw as 258 W so I think I will be ok on both heat management and the power supply.

So I would welcome any thoughts or suggestions on how to balance the price and performance side of this build. Also, if I have made any particularly stupid mistake that would be nice to know too.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Welcome to SPCR.

Star Citizen is shaping up to be incredibly pretty and incredibly taxing if you want max effects.

CPU: Generic advice is go for the fastest i5. That said, Fry's $159 for 200MHz less is a decent price. You mentioned overclocking...to do so, you'd need an i5 with a K suffix.

GPU: Unless there's significant tuning between now and release, you won't be able to play this game 1080p with the 7750. Probably need a GTX 760 and better.

Mobo: Of the two, I'd get the Z97A. Slightly better audio chip, Intel LAN, and overclock options.

RAM: ok.

PSU: It'll do. Your stressed load power is ~ 190W. You'll want to revisit when you opt for a new gaming card.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:02 am
Posts: 10
CA_Steve wrote:
Welcome to SPCR.


Thanks! I really appreciate the community here.
CA_Steve wrote:
CPU: Generic advice is go for the fastest i5. That said, Fry's $159 for 200MHz less is a decent price. You mentioned overclocking...to do so, you'd need an i5 with a K suffix.

For the processor I mostly just followed Tom's Hardware's most recent article on "Best CPU for the Money". Would I gain a enough headroom on overclocking if I went to the 4690k to buy me another year or two on the active life of the computer? My general experience is that by the time I get to the point were I would be overclocking to stay relevant something else has demanded a complete overhaul. ~$65 is worth time though I just don't have a good enough sense about that to make the call so I went with the cheaper option.
CA_Steve wrote:
GPU: Unless there's significant tuning between now and release, you won't be able to play this game 1080p with the 7750. Probably need a GTX 760 and better.

This I know. I am pretty tolerant of running without some eye candy for sure but would definitely have this in future plans.
CA_Steve wrote:
Mobo: Of the two, I'd get the Z97A. Slightly better audio chip, Intel LAN, and overclock options.

If I go with the non-k version of the i5 it looks to me that the H97 would be enough of the same. So I suppose my options are $100+ for the i5 'k' version and Z97 or the H97 and the non-k. I know it is rather subjective, but can someone put this in more concrete terms? My really abbreviated research seems to show that the overclocking on the Haswell's is not particularly high and people are getting ~10% improvement. That seems unlikely to really make a difference in 4-5 years no? I could be looking at this completely wrong though!
CA_Steve wrote:
RAM: ok.

Copied this one from an earlier thread... don't go thinking I am competent or anything!

CA_Steve wrote:
PSU: It'll do. Your stressed load power is ~ 190W. You'll want to revisit when you opt for a new gaming card.


Thanks... thought of this too.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Overclocking vs $'s saved is a mixed bag / dice roll. It might buy you a year or two down the road or it might not*. I'd save the money and apply toward your future GPU and PSU.

Is that the original Solo or the Solo II?

* I overclocked my old e8400 15% and it was enough to fix some high usage issues I was having for 2 years. Ok, the last year was a stretch. :) Whether or not it'll work with my i5 is an answer for another year...or three.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:34 pm 
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It is the original Solo.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1921
Location: Guatemala
CA_Steve wrote:
* I overclocked my old e8400 15% and it was enough to fix some high usage issues I was having for 2 years. Ok, the last year was a stretch. :) Whether or not it'll work with my i5 is an answer for another year...or three.
My guess is your i5 will be good for at least 2 more gens, skylake wont have 6 cores already confirmed by intel, and the next gen is just a die shrink, so at least until 2016 you cpu should handle everything fine, specially with how low the upgrades are from gen to gen. I think intel will continue to make their CPU just more efficient and low voltage for mobile, and in the process give a a very small ugprade into how capable they are. I was going to move to 8 core haswell E, but with ddr4 will be on release... im gonna wait a couple of years for prices to settle and to get better timmings, maybe in skylake E there is an 8 core none Extreme edition thats its around $500, then ill move.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:02 am
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Thanks to all. I think the best call is to save the money on the CPU and MB for now and put it to the cost of a graphics card in a few months. That should set me up for a few years at the potential cost of losing out on a year of use down the road.

Are there any other motherboards people might suggest around the ~$100-150 mark?


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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:02 am
Posts: 10
Need some quick advice... I ordered the parts and put the system together but it failed to POST. It powers on for a couple minutes and then shuts down but with no video at all.

I have been following the advice on this thread to try and trouble shoot and I have come down to three possible problems.

(http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/26114 ... o-problems)

1. It might be the PSU as my Seasonic SS-380HB does not have an 8-pin 12v EATX. It does have a 4-pin 12v plug that fits and allows the computer to power on it might not be enough for it to work. (Quick recommendations on a new PSU would be appreciated if this might be my issue.)

2. The Freezer 11 LP fan I am using blocks the A1 channel for the RAM so I am using the B1/B2 channels. Might this be causing it to fail? The instruction manual lists no such limitation but it is possible.

3. Bad CPU/Motherboard? Not really sure how to diagnose this other than I can't figure out anything else to try.

4. The only other issue I can see is that it might be heat as the first time it runs for a couple minutes but subsequent attempts it only runs 5-30 seconds unless I let it sit.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1921
Location: Guatemala
brokejumper wrote:
Need some quick advice... I ordered the parts and put the system together but it failed to POST. It powers on for a couple minutes and then shuts down but with no video at all.

I have been following the advice on this thread to try and trouble shoot and I have come down to three possible problems.

(http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/26114 ... o-problems)

1. It might be the PSU as my Seasonic SS-380HB does not have an 8-pin 12v EATX. It does have a 4-pin 12v plug that fits and allows the computer to power on it might not be enough for it to work. (Quick recommendations on a new PSU would be appreciated if this might be my issue.)

2. The Freezer 11 LP fan I am using blocks the A1 channel for the RAM so I am using the B1/B2 channels. Might this be causing it to fail? The instruction manual lists no such limitation but it is possible.

3. Bad CPU/Motherboard? Not really sure how to diagnose this other than I can't figure out anything else to try.

4. The only other issue I can see is that it might be heat as the first time it runs for a couple minutes but subsequent attempts it only runs 5-30 seconds unless I let it sit.

Thoughts?


1) IIRC you do need at least a 4pin, this is where the CPU draws its power, but should be enough with 4pin, although there are adapters you can get to use Molex into another 4pin, to complete the 8pin to test.

2) Use the included Intel stock cpu cooler, and try different memory slots, sometimes motherboards do are picky into how you populate them, try also only 1 stick of ram (and try both).

3) Now that you are installing the intel cpu cooler, take off the cpu, check the pins, sometimes motherboards come with the pins bent.

4) Test it outside the case if you can, sometimes there are shorts that makes us do testing a lot of things, when sometimes its really easily fixed, so if you can test it outside the case.

Would be good if you list the components your running, there are some motherboards like Z87/H87/H81/B85 that need a bios update to recognized new cpus, so this could be it, but idk what motherboard and cpu you end up.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


Last edited by Abula on Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:02 am
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Thanks for the quick reply.

Is there anything to be learned by the fact that it runs for a few minutes and then runs for less later? I have built a few computers before and my failures have been all or nothing.

So if the RAM was in the wrong slot it would seem to just fail, nor spin the the fans for a couple minutes. Have I just been lucky in the past and this doesn't mean anything?


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 Post subject: Re: Advice for New MB, CPU, and RAM - Moderate Gaming Build
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 3068
Location: ITALY
brokejumper wrote:
Thoughts?

As said by Abula: test the new combo outside the case (laid on the mobo box, for example), reset the BIOS jumper, use just 1 RAM stick (test both, test every RAM socket), use the stock Intel cooler, do not use your videocard but the integrated graphics, do not attach any storage device for the very first (successful) boot.

About the quick rec on PSU, even if, as said by Abula, the 4-pin plug is enough, if you want to look around for a somehow better unit, you may give a shot to the Corsair RM450 (decent performing, decent built, very efficient, usually very quiet, usually not outrageously expensive, will stand a future mid-range-to-high-end graphic card).


brokejumper wrote:
Is there anything to be learned by the fact that it runs for a few minutes and then runs for less later?

IMHO that it could not be a damaged part, as I experienced similar issues just when going with wrong BIOS settings.

Well, have either a good luck or a good RMA! :wink:

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Luca


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