It is currently Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:28 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
Dear all,

I need to build a quiet PC for basic tasks: Office, web browsing, mail, looking at videos. The more demanding task is related to photo with Lightroom. No gaming; no overclocking.

I would be happy to have something with stopped fans during web browsing, and starting fans when the usage is more demanding.

My idea is to start on this basis: pentium 3430 (about 54W TDP ; should I also consider some AMD APU?), a 350W gold alim 5I'm in France and a dealer sales rebadged seasonics), 8 Go of Ram, a 120 Go SSD and a 2 To WD green HDD.

1) I really need help for the case. I consider either a Cooler Master Elite 130 (nice for the volume) or a Cooler Master Silencio352. From silence point of view, can I achieve the same performance with both cases ? What would you advice ?

2) Are there some specific criteria to consider for the mobo related to the silence target, that would not be available on all Mobo ?

3) Could a AMD APU (TDP of 65W instead of 54W) be OK to consider, or it would be more difficult to manage from noise point of view ?

4) Which CPU fan would you advice for such a configuration, budget wise ?

5) where to put extra 15€ to get more silence ?

Thanks for your help and kind regards,

JMF


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:27 am
Posts: 1728
Location: Switzerland
450 euros is a lot of money for a dual-core build, even considering the oppressive VAT you have to pay if you don't live near the Swiss border. ;-)

I haven't built workstations with room for a 3.5'' drive in a long, long time so I can't help you with specific parts but here are a few things to consider if you're new to this:
-modern Intel CPUs are surprisingly efficient and do not require much airflow for cooling except when you're making them work hard (and even then they require less cooling than they did only a few years ago)
-some people have a hard time even hearing noise others find unacceptably loud, especially if they have cheap walls and live in a loud place like a city
-some distance between yourself and the computer does wonders (other details such as the type of furniture also matter)
Conclusion: I wouldn't go crazy with silencing gear until you know you actually need it. Some people are fine with stock coolers for instance. If you're new to this, try something simple first.

If you don't mind a largish case and take care to pick one with enough room for a large cooler and 3.5'' drive suspension, you'd be able to make your basic build more quiet if you need to. And you'd be able to upgrade the CPU on the cheap in a few years by buying some serial upgrader's used quad-core.
Besides the case, the things you can't change without wasting money (unless you buy used) are the mobo and the PSU. So you might want to be careful about picking a mobo with decent fan control (though even cheap ASRock boards are good enough for most people) and a PSU whose fan doesn't spin at low loads or even a pico.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
jmf11 wrote:
Dear all,

I need to build a quiet PC for basic tasks: Office, web browsing, mail, looking at videos. The more demanding task is related to photo with Lightroom. No gaming; no overclocking.

I would be happy to have something with stopped fans during web browsing, and starting fans when the usage is more demanding.

My idea is to start on this basis: pentium 3430 (about 54W TDP ; should I also consider some AMD APU?), a 350W gold alim 5I'm in France and a dealer sales rebadged seasonics), 8 Go of Ram, a 120 Go SSD and a 2 To WD green HDD.


Welcome to SPCR.

Pick a Pentium G3420: it's just 100Mhz less than a G3430 but it usually comes for 20-30 euros less also (using idealo.fr I see 55 euros for a 3420, but 78 euros for a 3430).
The only weak point of the entire Pentium lineup is the relatively basic GPU: a Core i3 is to be regarded as noticeably better, with reference to video and transcoding, but you may add a discrete graphics, if you ever should need, I guess. A discrete graphics is needed if you work in Lightroom with a wide-gamut 30-bit color monitor.

About the SSD, several SSDs don't like to be filled up, performance wise. So, even if some 120Go models aren't bad at all (as the Intel 530), I would advice to pick a larger one (as a Crucial M500 240Go, or a Sandisk Ultra Plus 256Go), or one which has greater performance consistency, like a Sandisk Extreme II, or a Corsair Neutron/Neutron GTX, or even a Seagate 600/600 Pro. Some mid-to-high-end OCZs (Vector 150, Vertex 460) and Intels (730, S3500 and above) are extremely good too in this respect, but just to be fair the firsts are often regarded as a bit less reliable than other brands, while the latters usually come at a premium over the competition.
About the RAM quantity, it mostly depends of images size: 8go are almost always fine, but it you're used to work with very large RAW files 16Go are a better option, if you can afford it. Use a low profile, low voltage dual channel kit: timing is not that important, 1600MHz is plentiful of bandwidth, I guess SPCR reviewers uses Kingston LoVo, several co-forumer Crucial Sport and Sport VLP, I think both are fine choices.


jmf11 wrote:
1) I really need help for the case. I consider either a Cooler Master Elite 130 (nice for the volume) or a Cooler Master Silencio352. From silence point of view, can I achieve the same performance with both cases ? What would you advice ?


I second most of HFat advices on that. I think that a small enclosure puts some severe limitations on PSU lenght, heatsink height, cabling (which obstruct airflow), so I would rather something larger. If you like the "cubic" style, one of my favourite is the Cooltek W1, but at first glance I see it's noticeably overpriced in France (30% more than in Germany and Italy). With reference to the enclosure, I think it also matters the buyer attitudes, I mean whether you are used to tinker with parts or not.


jmf11 wrote:
2) Are there some specific criteria to consider for the mobo related to the silence target, that would not be available on all Mobo ?


At least 3 software controllable fan headers, possibly some heatsinks on the power circuitry, lots of flexibility in the HW Monitor section of the UEFI/BIOS.
I think an ASRock H87 Pro4 (M or not) should be enough cheap (even if I see it's about 20% more expensive in France, than either in Germany or in Italy), and enough good for the money, but check the relevant manual online. MSI G43-series is also a fine choice.


jmf11 wrote:
3) Could a AMD APU (TDP of 65W instead of 54W) be OK to consider, or it would be more difficult to manage from noise point of view ?


IMHO an AMD APU should not be preferred over a Pentium: surely, it has a better stock graphics, but you will loose too much in efficiency and computational power. With reference to noise, there's no difference to manage an AMD or an Intel unit, giving the right (large with a slow fan) heatsink.


jmf11 wrote:
4) Which CPU fan would you advice for such a configuration, budget wise ?


This one is among my preferred coolers for such a setup: relatively cheap and with a good sounding stock fan. Given that it's a tower heatsink, it requires some space, but usually less than most of the equivalent quiet coolers.


jmf11 wrote:
5) where to put extra 15€ to get more silence ?


Either on some Scythe case fans, if needed, or on a disk drive suspension like the NoiseMagic one.
Eventually on an Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Plus heatsink if you go for a discrete graphics.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Scandinavia
Hi,

Lately I built a new rig for my spouse from scratch (except for DDR3 memory) and you seem to have similar requirements: decent performance for office work, very small footprint, and absolute quietness. Here, you can have a look at what I did: quiet mITX with mid range hardware

While a number of people here still use 3.5/2.5 inch HDDs in their rigs, I don't think it is a sweeping generalization to claim that HDDs along with graphics cards are the noisiest components in modern PCs. In this regard, you are making contradicting statements because you should have excluded HDDs in the first place for silent computing. Having said that, if you still need inexpensive mass storage, I suggest that you buy an external HDD such as Western Digital Elements (I guess they use WD Green 3.5 inch HDDs within the enclosure), which you can power on only when you need to, because, as you know, the airborne noise generated from 3.5 inch HDDs can't be quietened effectively even with sophisticated suspension apparatus.

jmf11 wrote:
2) Are there some specific criteria to consider for the mobo related to the silence target, that would not be available on all Mobo ?

For the finest granularity of fan control in BIOS, Asrock motherboards (e.g., B85M-ITX, H81M-ITX) are the only motherboards that deliver, where you can set PWM % (for 4 pin fan) and voltage (for 3 pin fan) from 1% to 100% with a step size of 1% and construct a fan %( or voltage) function with multiple breakpoints. However, if you don't fancy aesthetic aspects of Asrock motherboards (which I don't), I speculate MSI botherboards are good enough for most people where you can set only two breakpoints of fan speeds with respect to the CPU temperature. I would avoid ASUS in any case due to their "fake" PWM fan header, let alone the unreasonable minimum thresholds for fan speed (i.e., PWM% or voltage).

jmf11 wrote:
3) Could a AMD APU (TDP of 65W instead of 54W) be OK to consider, or it would be more difficult to manage from noise point of view ?

For silent or silent-ish computing, you will have to stick to Intel CPUs. AMD equivalents might be a bit cheaper but they are not as energy-efficent as Intel's. Also, as HFat mentioned, modern Intel CPUs (i.e., Haswell) are incredibly efficient for most (at least 95%) non-ethusiastic users and I have the hunch that you are a bit unnecessarily conservative in selecting your CPU because you can quieten any Intel Haswell i3 CPU in however small chassis, just as I did in Lian Li PC-TU100 in the above link.

_________________
Main: TJ08-E|NF-S12A; Asrock B85M Pro4; i5-4430|NH-U12S; 16G@1600; MSI GTX660OC|Alpenföhn Peter|2x NF-S12A; Intel 330 180G|335 240G; Corsair RM650; Dell U2713HM; BlasterAXX SBX10; Blu-ray SH-B123L, Family: PC-TU100A|NF-S12A; Asrock H81M-ITX; i3-4130|Big Shuriken 2B; SilverStone ST30SF, HTPC: PC-Q11A|NF-A14; Asrock B75M-DGS; i3-2100; Zotac GT640 Fanless; Seasonic SS-400FL2


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Scandinavia
I was just wondering how much it costs in France for a similar rig to my spouse's and attempted to pick parts according to your requrements in Amazon France:

CPU: Intel G3430 --- 85.69 EUR
CPU Cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken 2 -- 45.03 EUR
Motherboard: Asrock H81M-ITX --- 69.67 EUR
Chassis: Lian Li PC-TU100 --- Unfortunately, not available in Amazon.fr
Chassis Fan: Noctua NF-S12A PWM -- 19.90 EUR
PSU: SilverStone ST30SF (Semi-fanless) --- 62.58 EUR
SSD: Crucial M500 120GB --- 64.36 EUR
Memory: Kingston KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX (2x4G) --- 62.77 EUR
External HDD: Western Digital WDBWLG0020HBK (2T) --- 88.30 EUR
Total: 498.30 EUR

This configuration is well-thought through in consideration of possible dimensional conflicts between components. Even in case you go for "Cooler Master Elite 130", you can start from the above configuration because "Cooler Master Elite 130" and "Lian Li PC-TU100" have similar limitation for CPU cooler height (65mm and 60mm, resp.). You can also consider Noctua NH-L9i (46.10 EUR) which has arguably better yet smaller fan, instead of Scythe Big Shuriken 2. For your information, based on my own experience with i3-4130 in Lian Li PC-TU100 (and Noctua NH-L12 with i7-2600 in Lian Li PC-Q11), I speculate Noctua NH-L9i will do for most-rudimentary i3 such as i3-4130 for silent computing but you'd better opt for Scythe Big Shuriken 2 for anything superior to i3-4130. Hopefully, you can use other French sites apart from Amazon.fr for further cost reduction.

A youtube video for PC-TU100 by Tek Syndicate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOGNUSvzjMI

_________________
Main: TJ08-E|NF-S12A; Asrock B85M Pro4; i5-4430|NH-U12S; 16G@1600; MSI GTX660OC|Alpenföhn Peter|2x NF-S12A; Intel 330 180G|335 240G; Corsair RM650; Dell U2713HM; BlasterAXX SBX10; Blu-ray SH-B123L, Family: PC-TU100A|NF-S12A; Asrock H81M-ITX; i3-4130|Big Shuriken 2B; SilverStone ST30SF, HTPC: PC-Q11A|NF-A14; Asrock B75M-DGS; i3-2100; Zotac GT640 Fanless; Seasonic SS-400FL2


Last edited by ggumdol on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
Thanks to all for youre quick feedbacks.

They solve a lot of my questions. So:
1) I'll go to the bigger case: Cooler Master Silencio 352
2) I'll stick to Intel CPU, something around 55€ (there was a discount at some time on the G3430 but I'll see at the moment as it may not be maintained). I'll upgrade at some point, when I'll find a good bargain in few years if needed,
3) Asrock mobo seem to provide the best fan control and MSI seem to do the job
4) I'll try to go for a 250 Go SSD (prices seem to go down at the moment)
5) will directly invest in a good CPU fan, like the one proposed
6) I would really prefer to have my big data storage onboard. I understand the idea of using an external one, but do not find it so convenient. That's why I looked for a WD green which seems to be on the quite side. It may prove the tricky point at the end.

Any advice for a 40-50€ PSU which fan doesn't spin at low load ? This is something I would really like.

I may have to look at german/italian online shops. Any advice ?

I won't go at the moment to 16 Go, as I feel that I will never use them and cost is significant.
The question is then: 1x8 Go for preparaing further upgrade or 2x4Go for dual channel ?

The PC will be less than 1m meter away from me, just under the tqble, in a quite room. I'm also sensitive to the noise. So I have to take care. But I'll start with the basics 20% things that make 80% of the result.

Thank's again for all your advices !

Kind regards,

JMF


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:27 am
Posts: 1728
Location: Switzerland
Yeah, I think that cooler would very likely be overkill with a Pentium, especially if you also use a chassis fan. There's not much to cool in that build.

Also, there are some nasty prices in there. The 3420 seems the way to go as Quest wrote.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
ggumdol wrote:
can also consider Noctua NH-L9i (46.10 EUR) which has arguably better yet smaller fan, instead of Scythe Big Shuriken 2


I've some serious doubts about what you're saying, ggumdol: as the Scythe fans do have superior cooling prowess than the Noctua at any given voltage/duty cycle, as that Scythe do have a lower noise than the Noctua one at any given voltage/duty cycle, and, I would add, as the Scythe has a more broadband noise signature (owning both those fans I perceive the 92mm Noctua as more whizzing at the higher speeds), I don't see how and where that Noctua fan can be "arguably better", especially when you don't need its diminutive 37mm height.
Besides, I don't understand the recommendation to spend about 1 euros more on such an inferior Noctua cooler (inferior noise wise, performance wise and flexibility wise, as it's an Intel-only cooler), when your total amount is already around 500 euros without any enclosure, while the allotted budget is about 450 euros.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Scandinavia
I agree with you, Scythe coolers are superior in this realm. My assessment was very subjective. Let me just put it this way: I seem to prefer the overall acoustic frequency response of Noctua fans. Not quite scientific, I concede.

quest_for_silence wrote:
I've some serious doubts about what you're saying, ggumdol: as the Scythe fans do have superior cooling prowess than the Noctua at any given voltage/duty cycle, as that Scythe do have a lower noise than the Noctua one at any given voltage/duty cycle, and, I would add, as the Scythe has a more broadband noise signature (owning both those fans I perceive the 92mm Noctua as more whizzing at the higher speeds), I don't see how and where that Noctua fan can be "arguably better", especially when you don't need its diminutive 37mm height.
Besides, I don't understand the recommendation to spend about 1 euros more on such an inferior Noctua cooler (inferior noise wise, performance wise and flexibility wise, as it's an Intel-only cooler), when your total amount is already around 500 euros without any enclosure, while the allotted budget is about 450 euros.

_________________
Main: TJ08-E|NF-S12A; Asrock B85M Pro4; i5-4430|NH-U12S; 16G@1600; MSI GTX660OC|Alpenföhn Peter|2x NF-S12A; Intel 330 180G|335 240G; Corsair RM650; Dell U2713HM; BlasterAXX SBX10; Blu-ray SH-B123L, Family: PC-TU100A|NF-S12A; Asrock H81M-ITX; i3-4130|Big Shuriken 2B; SilverStone ST30SF, HTPC: PC-Q11A|NF-A14; Asrock B75M-DGS; i3-2100; Zotac GT640 Fanless; Seasonic SS-400FL2


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:19 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4560
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
jmf11 wrote:
Any advice for a 40-50€ PSU which fan doesn't spin at low load ? This is something I would really like.

Take a look at the be quiet! Straight Power E9. It's not passive, but it is very quiet and has great efficiency for a Gold rated PSU.

jmf11 wrote:
I won't go at the moment to 16 Go, as I feel that I will never use them and cost is significant.
The question is then: 1x8 Go for preparaing further upgrade or 2x4Go for dual channel ?

Go with 2 x 4GB. If you get a micro-ATX motherboard, it'll have 4 RAM slots (while mini-ITX has 2). There's a performance bump with dual channel.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 1:19 am
Posts: 489
Location: Australia
how cpu dependant is lightroom? does it rule out the new amd kabini apus?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
jmf11 wrote:
Any advice for a 40-50€ PSU which fan doesn't spin at low load ? This is something I would really like.


I'm not aware of semi-fanless ATX PSUs in that price range: if you'll never buy a discrete graphics, you may look for something like PicoPSU, as they're completely fanless.

Otherwise, if you're sensitive to noise, you have to look at some good (quiet) fanned PSU as the quoted BeQuiet E9 400W or the Seasonic G-360, but I think you can't source them for less than 55-60 euros.

The SFX Silverstone unit quoted by ggumdol is a perfectly viable choice for that price, even better, it is semi-fanless up to 120W as you'd like.

Relaxing a bit your quietness requirement, you may look at BeQuiet System 7 or L8 units also (from 300W up to 450W), even if I think you are going to spare slightly.


jmf11 wrote:
I may have to look at german/italian online shops. Any advice ?


Well, first of all, check always prices on different Amazon sites: price on italian and german Amazon sites sometimes can be quite different than the french ones, and you can buy on any of those sites (please pay attention to shipping charges).

Among italian e-tailers, I'm sorry but I'm not aware about which one may offer international shipping, so I can't help, while for german shops at least caseking.de and preiscompany.de come to mind; as there are several ones, you might start a thread to get feedback from german forumers. Please take note that on those shops international shipping takes very often a noticeable increase on charges, over the usual domestic fares.

Anyway, you may check relevant prices using some price-comparator as "twenga" or "idealo" which are available in all those countries: .de, .fr and .it

I would look also to ebay, maybe checking different localisations, and perhaps you may ask to HFat in order to check any suitable swiss shop.


jmf11 wrote:
I won't go at the moment to 16 Go, as I feel that I will never use them and cost is significant.


It mostly depends of how much are your photo large, and how often you will use the library in Lightroom, how many pictures you develop, export, or 1:1 render at once. Working inside the library will eat all the free ram you'll have, so, if photo editing is a main task for that rig, you should think about your actual requirements.


jmf11 wrote:
The question is then: 1x8 Go for preparaing further upgrade or 2x4Go for dual channel ?


Dual channel kits are more performing, and prices are about the same: so, given that usually you will have 4 DIMM slots for RAM, why bother?


porkchop wrote:
how cpu dependant is lightroom? does it rule out the new amd kabini apus?


I don't understand your question: which program is not cpu dependant? At any rate, if you check SPCR review, you may see as Kabini has not that much power with reference to Photoshop. And that's unfortunate, as that ASUS FM1 would look like an extremely quiet platform.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
So, I'm doing my homework, with all provided informations:

The H of the CPU fan is a bit too important as the case allows max 155mm and the Scythe Kotetsu is 160mm (not a big difference, but...). It also appears not so easy to source. Is there a slighly smaller option, good for silence and with a good noise/price ratio ?

I'm checking wheter to go with a B85M or H87M chipset, with 4 memory slots (asrock or MSI). Not so easy for me to understand the difference between the 2.

Difficult to be sure of the wiring of the fans provided with the CM silencio 352. They are given to be xtraflow 120mm. Seems that they are PWM/4 pins. Am I right ? So I need a mobo with 3 PWM 4 pin fan connectors (1xCPU, 2x case).

Some boards only have 4 pin fan's connectors. Just to know, can we commect 3pin fans to 4pin Mobo connectors ?

The budget seems to increase ;-), but it takes shape.

Kind regards,

JMF


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
jmf11 wrote:
The H of the CPU fan is a bit too important as the case allows max 155mm and the Scythe Kotetsu is 160mm (not a big difference, but...).


It would work, tightly: you can find images in reviews with the Hyper 212 (159mm), with the Xigmatek 1283 (159mm), and with the Thermalright True Spirit (160mm) inside the Silencio 352.


jmf11 wrote:
It also appears not so easy to source.


I can't help: I see there are several shops (8) on the Amazon Marketplace hich sells the Kotetsu, but I can't know the whole french scene.

About an alternative cheap cooler, you can look to either the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo, but it deserves a fan swap, or to the Cooler Master Hyper 412S: this latter has a 3-pin fan which can run pretty quiet using the supplied low voltage adapter cable.


jmf11 wrote:
Is there a slighly smaller option, good for silence and with a good noise/price ratio ?


With the same favourable ratio no: at least, I'm not aware of, right now.

Among relatively cheap coolers, you can go with a Scythe Kabuto, but it costs a tad more. Otherwise you can go either for the Thermalright True Spirit 120M or the Thermalright Macho 120: both do need a fan swap (the stock ones are really terrible), so they will cost more.


jmf11 wrote:
I'm checking wheter to go with a B85M or H87M chipset, with 4 memory slots (asrock or MSI). Not so easy for me to understand the difference between the 2.


AFAIK mainly the RAID controller on the H87.


jmf11 wrote:
Difficult to be sure of the wiring of the fans provided with the CM silencio 352. They are given to be xtraflow 120mm. Seems that they are PWM/4 pins. Am I right ? So I need a mobo with 3 PWM 4 pin fan connectors (1xCPU, 2x case).


I'm pretty sure they are voltage controlled ones: so you need at least two voltage-controlled fan headers (but you can't judge them by their appearance). However, IMO they do not sound extremely good, so you may even have to swap those fans (but try them, and judge by yourself).


jmf11 wrote:
Some boards only have 4 pin fan's connectors. Just to know, can we commect 3pin fans to 4pin Mobo connectors ?


It depends: some header are fake PWM, so the answer is yes: that's a very common situation for chassis or system fan headers.
Some more rare headers can drive both the fans, setting accordingly the BIOS (I saw them on the CPU of some MSI, ASUS and ASRock).
More often, when you connect a voltage controlled fan (3-pin) to a true PWM header (4-pin), that fan will run only at full speed.
On ASRock 1150 boards usually you have 2 PWM headers, while the remaining ones are voltage controlled headers, even if they are all 4-pin.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
Thanks again,

For the Xtraflow, it seems to be PWM/4 pin if we can believe http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/cas ... raflo-120/

Thanks for the examples of configs: So I can go with the Scythe Kotetsu. My Mobo will be vertical. Do I need to do something specific to address the Kotetsu weight ?

For the mobo fans headers, I imagine that the only way to learn about how they are addressed is to go through the mobo manual (which may not prove to be clear enough...).

The Asrock H87M Pro4 has (sorry for the french):
- 2 x Connecteurs pour ventilateur de CPU (1 x 4-pin, 1 x 3-pin)
- 2 x Connecteurs pour ventilateur de Châssis (1 x 4-pin, 1 x 3-pin)

What would be needed to control TWO pwm Chassis fans with such a mobo? (note that the MSI B85-G43 has 2x4 pin)

Regards,

JM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
jmf11 wrote:
For the Xtraflow, it seems to be PWM/4 pin if we can believe http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/cas ... raflo-120/


That's a retail fan, so it can easily be a different version of the same fan.

However, as up tp now I never saw a (budget) enclosure with PWM fans, I still think they are 3-pin ones.
Even if I'm pretty sure about that, probably you'd better to drop an e-mail to the CM Tech Support (or to open a new thread with a subject like "Silencio 352 case fans", so that who - among SPCR Readers - should own that case, he might give you a quick answer about).


jmf11 wrote:
Thanks for the examples of configs: So I can go with the Scythe Kotetsu. My Mobo will be vertical. Do I need to do something specific to address the Kotetsu weight ?


I never did anything to address the cantilever effect, even with the Scythe Orochi (1.4Kg).


jmf11 wrote:
The Asrock H87M Pro4 has (sorry for the french):
- 2 x Connecteurs pour ventilateur de CPU (1 x 4-pin, 1 x 3-pin)
- 2 x Connecteurs pour ventilateur de Châssis (1 x 4-pin, 1 x 3-pin)

What would be needed to control TWO pwm Chassis fans with such a mobo? (note that the MSI B85-G43 has 2x4 pin)


Without a discrete graphics, I don't think you need more than the only rear exhaust fan.

However, if (as I guess) the CM XtraFlo fans are voltage controlled, and you want to control them independently (probably there's no need to do so), apparently you lack one voltage controlled header (as the CPU 3-pin one "mirrors" the 4-pin one).
So, whether the CHA_FAN_1 were a true PWM (as it should be), you might need a 3-pin Y-cable, providing that you wanted to drive them using the same CHA_FAN_2 header: but priorly you'd have to check the fans rating, in order to not exceed the header rating (or you will blow it).
Alternatively, you might connect one of the two case fans to the second CPU header (the 3-pin one), and it will spin accordingly to the CPU temperature (that's not a bad idea).

On the contrary, whether the Silencio 352 case fans were two true PWM ones (and I don't think so), you'd need a PWM splitter (Akasa, Gelid, Silverstone, Swiftech are some manufacturers which sell them), in order to connect them either to the CPU_FAN_1 or to the CHA_FAN_1.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:29 am
Posts: 1161
Location: UK
quest_for_silence wrote:
...On the contrary, whether the Silencio 352 case fans were two true PWM ones (and I don't think so)...
Definitely not PWM despite the Xtraflow branding. The fans fitted to the 352 are 3 pin model A12025-12CB-3EN-F1 with a nominal top speed of 1200 rpm. With most motherboards plugging them into 3 pin chassis fan headers would normally give control in the 7 to 12v range.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
Thanks for the clarifications.

I had a first look, and I find that the Asrock and Cooler Master websites are not so complete about the required specs to check everything in advance...

With the Xtraflow reference, I found on ebay some data about the associated power rating: about 2W.

About the Asrock Fan's header power rating, I found nothing... The order of magnitude of such headers seem to be 1A x 12V => 12W, to compare with 2x2W for the Fans.
Having 2 fans in parallel on one header seems OK. I would really be happy to have a confirmation.

I find really sad that those informations are not more clearly detailed in the components specs....

Regards,

JMF


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
lodestar wrote:
The fans fitted to the 352 are 3 pin model A12025-12CB-3EN-F1 with a nominal top speed of 1200 rpm.


It would seem that fan own the usual Cooler Master crappy sound signature... you've just try and see (hear), I guess.


jmf11 wrote:
Having 2 fans in parallel on one header seems OK. I would really be happy to have a confirmation.


My personal, prudential rule of thumb with generic mobo headers it is to stay under a total current draw of 0.40/0.45A, with reference to the current fans specs.

So, as we're talking of a total of about 0.32-0.35A, I guess you're safe: but as already said, you shouldn't need two case fans, you can use the CPU_FAN_2, and you might want to swap those stock fans for some Nexus or Scythe ones for a better sound signature and overall quietness.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
I have to recognize that, for a pure intellectual pleasure, I would ne happy tout keep the 2 fans with a specific setup that would keep both of them stopped most of the time, calling them on the scene only when needed. First one, and the second only in extreme cases.

Regards

Jmf


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
jmf11 wrote:
First one, and the second only in extreme cases.


Stopping the fans won't depend of using separate headers, but mostly on the specs of headers (unknown) and fans.

Regarding the different speed thresholds, IMHO you might have two different raising point using the second CPU fan header, as you'd have just to raise the first case fan speed a bit faster than the CPU ones up to the steady state, while reserving a steeper climbing for those latter at the highest temperatures (you need a software to design two custom fan curves, like SpeedFan).

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:29 am
Posts: 1161
Location: UK
jmf11 wrote:
...keep the 2 fans with a specific setup that would keep both of them stopped most of the time, calling them on the scene only when needed. First one, and the second only in extreme cases....
Asus motherboards such as the H87M-E which support Fan Xpert2 have this capability; you can set a temperature at which a fan will turn on and it will stay off until the CPU hits that temperature. I don't know if Asrock's equivalent fan control software, Fan-Tastic, can do this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
lodestar wrote:
Asus motherboards such as the H87M-E which support Fan Xpert2 have this capability


Giving the right fans, most of ASRock and MSI can do that too: the question is to do that with two 3-pin fans but just one 3-pin header.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
Dear all,

I'm finalizing my shopping list.

Looking to second hand adds and discounts, I identified options for the CPU cooler:
- Scythe Ninja 3 (25€ - overkill but price OK))
- Scythe Mungen 2 rev B (30€ - second hand)

Are one or both of them choices to consider as an alternative to the Scythe Kotesu ?

For the PSU, I balance between:
- Seasonic G-360 (rebadged by LDLC dealer at 44€)
- Silverstone Strider ST30SF - 300W (50€ - semi fanless but may need some adaptation to cases designed for ATX PSU)

Any advice ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 3:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
jmf11 wrote:
Looking to second hand adds and discounts, I identified options for the CPU cooler:
- Scythe Ninja 3 (25€ - overkill but price OK))


The Ninja 3 is a four years old design: according to the SPCR findings, it's not a very good cooler with a concave base and much higher speed fan, which should be driven with a very low PWM duty cycle.
As you say, the price is low enough: in case, pay attention to the ram you will buy, as it has much less clearing than a slim tower like the Kotetsu.
I don't know whether it may offer better performance than the Kotetsu: I guess it should be not so far, up or down, but YMMV.


jmf11 wrote:
Scythe Mungen 2 rev B (30€ - second hand)


It's probably a better cooler than the Ninja 3, but you could end up getting worn mounting and fan: does it worth? Check if it should need a new retention kit for the LGA1150, as it will cost about 10 euros more.


jmf11 wrote:
Are one or both of them choices to consider as an alternative to the Scythe Kotesu ?


I can't help: the Kotetsu has a better, easier mounting than both, a better base than the Ninja, performance-wise is about on par with the Noctua NH-U12S and Thermalright True 120, but SPCR used different platforms to test NH-U12S, Ninja 3 and Mugen 2, so you can't compare their performances.

But there's an important note: I found a reviewer measured the Kotetsu as being 163mm tall.
Well, it might be a reviewer's error, but I don't think a 163mm heatsink will easily fit inside a Silencio 352: so you'd better to drop an email to the Scythe EU customer support looking for a confirmation about the 160mm official data (usually they are far more responsive and precise than Cooler Master or ASRock).


jmf11 wrote:
For the PSU, I balance between:
- Seasonic G-360 (rebadged by LDLC dealer at 44€)
- Silverstone Strider ST30SF - 300W (50€ - semi fanless but may need some adaptation to cases designed for ATX PSU)

Any advice ?


The Seasonic is a better unit, performance wise. Pay attention it's a mere rebadged unit and not a custom one, otherwise acoustically YMMV.

The Silverstone should be probably quieter at low loads (with reference to you, always, as it's rated for at least 120W@55°C): Silverstone supplies an adaptor plate along with it, to mount it on ATX enclosures (like the Silencio), but it may need some extension cables, as the main ones are about half the usual lenght, and therefore it could cost you probably about 10-20 euros more.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Last edited by quest_for_silence on Thu May 01, 2014 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
Thank's again for all those valuable advices. I have to think further to the CPU cooler having your feedback in mind. I'll go to the seasonic rebadged one. Let's.

I hope that it is the last question: There is an available i5-4430 at 97€ and the G3420 here are at 58€. But TDP is 84W instead of 54W.

Is it a significant risk for silence at web browsing/office related loads, or could we achieve similar performance with a Scythe Kotetsu here ?

Kind regards,

JM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
jmf11 wrote:
I hope that it is the last question: There is an available i5-4430 at 97€ and the G3420 here are at 58€. But TDP is 84W instead of 54W.

Is it a significant risk for silence at web browsing/office related loads, or could we achieve similar performance with a Scythe Kotetsu here ?


My guess is that you shouldn't gain any noticeable performance advantage, going with that Core i5.

The IPC is the same, and office/internet loads are not multithreaded: so you might well end up with similar experiences.
On the other hand, you shouldn't gain sizeable advantages even in Lightroom, as it's single-threaded: so what really matters are clockspeed and IPC (which are about the same).

Noise wise I think there will be no difference, or at worst a very minor one (but you should have a bit higher temperatures at the same noise level).

So personally I would spend that more money on a 480Gb M500 SSD, or on a discrete graphics, or even on some better fans and an HDD suspension.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Last edited by quest_for_silence on Thu May 01, 2014 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
OK, I buy the argument about the lack of interest of the i5 for my usage. I'll stick to the G3420.

I can' t source the Kotetsu with the other parts. With shipping costs, I arrive only 5€ short of the Mugen 4, which may have more cooling power, same fan (more silent than the one of the Ninja 3). Is there some interest / drawback to go to the Mugen 4 ?

Regards,

JM


Last edited by jmf11 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:12 am
Posts: 2907
Location: ITALY
jmf11 wrote:
IUs there some drawback to go to the Mugen 4 ?


I don't think there is any particular drawback: it's one of the best coolers available (and so a total overkill for a Pentium).
Just look at the memory modules height, as it's deeper than the Kotetsu, so it offers less clearance to RAM DIMMs.

Anyway, I already told you that you might go for an Hyper 212 with a different fan, or for a 412S (about 29 euros on Amazon, IIRC): they are both inferior to the Mugen 4, however.

_________________
Regards,
Luca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help for a 450€ budget quiet PC - help to start well
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
Hello,

A gigantic thanks you to have helped me so much to decide about my next configuration, and especially to have learned to me what was important.

Do the final configuration will be:
- case CM silencio 352
- CM MSI B85M-G43
- CPU G3420
- CPU fan Scythe Mugen 4 (luxurious)
- PSU LDLC QS-360 Quality Select 80PLUS Gold (rebadges seasonic G-360 - small risk)
- RAM 2x4 Go Lovo Ballistix Sport VLP
- SSD 240 Go Crucial M500
- HDD WD green 2 To
- PCI WiFi board TP-LINK TL-WN781ND
- DVD R/W Samsung SH-224

I arrive to a total of 500€, but with higher SSD capacity and much better CPU cooler.

I'll let you know after mounting all this.

Regards,

JMF


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group