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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:23 am 
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Posts: 28
hikeskool wrote:
CA_Steve wrote:
At 1920x1200, the only possible game that could use up more than 2GB or vram is something like the high rez download packs for Skyrim. If you were running >1440p, then extra memory is useful.

Is there a downside to extra vram? It'll use more power. Maybe 20W-30W when in 3D mode. Will this mean a higher fan rpm profile? <shrugs>


There is an MSI N770 Gaming card out there with the same "TwinFrozr" cooler as used in their 760 and I'm currently checking and comparing reviews to get an idea of acoustic performance. Stand by!


Well, that didn't take too long. Guru3D has a review of the MSI 760 Gaming and the MSI 770 Gaming, both with what look like identical coolers. At 75cm (~29.5 inches) the 760 measures 36dba/38dba idle/load and the 770 measures 37dba/39dba idle/load. I think it's safe to say the two perform essentially the same acoustically. Looking at Guru3D's testing methodology it looks like the readings are taken with the card in an open-air test bench with nothing in between the mic and the card. In contrast my card will be about the same distance from my head but will of course be an the R4 which itself is underneath a reasonably-thick wooden desk.

Having said all that, it still doesn't mean the MSI card (either of them) WOULDN'T be the loudest thing in my build, which is why I am still open to any suggestions regarding my quandary above.


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Guru3d is my favorite place for GPUs, but for noise i think its good to compare between both as its tested with the same things on the same environment, but nothing like the chamber that SPCR has or the detail into tonality and different rpms, but still there is no much option as its limited to what SPCR tests in GPUs, so i dont think its a bad idea, just take their quiet comments with a grain of salt. Another place that i do look constantly for GPU, as i feel they test the most among all the big websites is TechPowerUp, in case you are interested, check all their MSI twin frozr reviews on the current gen of Nvidia cards,

MSI GTX 780 Ti Gaming 3 GB
MSI GTX 780 TwinFrozr Gaming 3 GB
MSI GTX 770 TwinFrozr Gaming 2 GB
MSI GTX 760 TwinFrozr Gaming 2 GB
MSI GTX 750 Ti Gaming 2 GB

Making a brief resume of it, most cards idle similar, but on load the higher end are louder,

Image

UK_Peter wrote:
The R4 is someone else not me :) I'm probably going for the Jonsbo/Cooltek/Rosewill U3 as small and more style than the SG10, so size matters! I need mATX or I'd try for smaller...
Sorry I got mixed... it though you were the OP of this thread, i just scrolled up =)

UK_Peter wrote:
Does this hold for the NH-C14 too?
The NH-C14 as Quest posted, its a marvelous heatsink, probably the best none tower cooler in the market, but its big and with the fan its start closing on the small towers, still very cool cooler. Read SPCR Noctua NH-C14 Dual Fan Top-down CPU Cooler. If i weren't perusing a SLI setup short term, i would go with it and NCASE M1: Crowdfunded Enthusiast Mini-ITX Case, maybe when single GPUs are good enough for 4k gaming.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:16 pm
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Abula wrote:
Guru3d is my favorite place for GPUs, but for noise i think its good to compare between both as its tested with the same things on the same environment, but nothing like the chamber that SPCR has or the detail into tonality and different rpms, but still there is no much option as its limited to what SPCR tests in GPUs, so i dont think its a bad idea, just take their quiet comments with a grain of salt. Another place that i do look constantly for GPU, as i feel they test the most among all the big websites is TechPowerUp, in case you are interested, check all their MSI twin frozr reviews on the current gen of Nvidia cards,

MSI GTX 780 Ti Gaming 3 GB
MSI GTX 780 TwinFrozr Gaming 3 GB
MSI GTX 770 TwinFrozr Gaming 2 GB
MSI GTX 760 TwinFrozr Gaming 2 GB
MSI GTX 750 Ti Gaming 2 GB

Making a brief resume of it, most cards idle similar, but on load the higher end are louder,

Image


I think you are definitely right about that - quiet to Guru3D may not be "quiet" to us, or, more specifically, guys like Abula and everyone else with amazing builds. Truly, I keep looking at it and it looks like there is no stone unturned. Quite a beauty!

Right now I'm leaning towards the 770 over the 760. After all, it's easy to drop in ~$80 more of memory in due time. It's not exactly easy to "drop in" $80 more worth of video card at a later date. Plus with an SSD I"m sure I'll not notice the difference.

Build coming soon after the holiday (July 4), I hope! I appreciate everyone's input!


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Posts: 28
Hi guys, I just thought I’d give an update here since it’s been awhile. I have ordered all my parts and have built this whole rig completely out. Unfortunately, I have run into a somewhat-common R4 problem whereby the “door clips” on the case require replacement. In short the ones that shipped with my case simply don’t allow the front fan “door” to latch. Fractal is shipping me a new pair and I’ll have to replace them using this video as a guide.

It was kind of a bummer to get everything inside the case only to realize the fan door can’t latch closed. I thought I would have to send the whole case back to Fractal so I completely disassembled everything. I won’t be able to work on the rig until this weekend but I was able to install Windows and test everything out. I was also able to address most of my sizing/fitment concerns as well.

For my final build, I decided to go with the i5 4690 instead of the 4460 for a little extra headroom. I also dropped my RAM down from 16GB to 8GB and put the savings toward the MSI 770. The Samsung SSD is a dream. It’s quite amazing to restart the machine and see the desktop in less than ten seconds. I haven’t had a chance to get any serious gaming done but I’m thrilled with how everything runs so far. Here’s the full run-down of what I went with for my final build:
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/hikeskool/saved/9gkj4D

The original memory I had selected, the Corsair Vengeance Pro works with the Kotetsu and the Z97-A, but just barely. I have attached a couple of pictures of the clearance provided by the included 120mm Scythe fan. From my measurements there is approximately 3mm of clearance from the top of this RAM to the bottom of the Scythe fan as it is positioned. Of course the fan can be adjusted up or down (to some extent) to accommodate different-sized RAM if desired. You may also notice that the RAM directly under the fan is positioned in the RAM slot nearest the CPU. If one wanted to use just two slots for dual channel mode (or the three farthest from the CPU) any size RAM would work; everything "south" of the first RAM slot completely clears the stock Scythe fan on this motherboard.

Image

Image

Another worry of mine was whether I could fit the Kingwin PSU (20mm longer than “standard” PSUs, remember) and also fit a 140mm fan on the case bottom. Well, a 140mm fan will fit, using this PSU, with a fairly large caveat. I am unable to use the bottom row of PSU connectors (as shown here) because they are blocked by the 140mm fan. This isn’t too much of an issue for me, however. One of the “negatives” found in the SPCR review of this PSU is that there are too many attached cables. For my purposes this is actually very positive. Having the main mobo connector, the CPU power connector and 2 PCI-E connectors permanently attached means I don’t have to use more of the “optional” connectors on stuff I believe most enthusiasts that would buy this PSU would be using. I will only be using two (maybe only one, we’ll see) of the connectors for drives so I should be able to run the bottom intake 140mm fan and also be able to have all my power needs taken care of with at least one additional plug available. It’s not the best situation as ideally I would have access to all the power connectors I paid for but it’s not a deal-breaker for me personally, at least right now.

A smaller issue regarding the particular 140mm Antec True Quiet fans with this case is the mounting “hardware” included. My versions of the fan come with the long, stick-like rubber mounts used with the left fan seen here. These are kind of difficult to install and require some patience, especially when mounting them in tight quarters, like near the longer Kingwin PSU I used for this build. Another smaller problem is that the removable bottom dust filter is somewhat obstructed by the “head” of each mount. The filter can be massaged in and out somewhat easily, it just takes a little more care than just ramming it in and yanking it out.

I will try to do a full thread in the “General Gallery” section with some pictures and temp figures once everything gets settled. My initial impressions are very positive. I am simply blown away by how quiet this rig is. I have yet to do any stress testing and messing with Asus’s FanXpert 3 control scheme (which looks VERY robust) but I think this setup will certainly fulfill my needs even if it’s not 100%-silent at one or two feet.

Thanks so much for all the contributions! This has been a fun and rewarding experience, thanks largely to everyone’s ideas and suggestions. More to come! :D


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:09 pm 
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Congrats on your build. Yeah, the Antec fan mounts were a challenge...but only had to do it once. :D

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
hikeskool have you ran FanXpert3 tuning? if so do can you take a screenshot of it, i want to see how are the Antec True Quiet 140 and the Scythe Glidestream running at idle.

And more naked pics i want to see how it end up =)

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:16 pm
Posts: 28
CA_Steve wrote:
Congrats on your build. Yeah, the Antec fan mounts were a challenge...but only had to do it once. :D

I'm for sure not looking forward to that again! I've found I can't really "pull" the mounts through for fear of snapping the ends off. So I use the metal tip of a 5mm mechanical pencil to help push them through the holes in the case. Not exactly easy or quick but it seems safe enough. Let's hope the next time I go through the process is the last time!

Abula wrote:
hikeskool have you ran FanXpert3 tuning? if so do can you take a screenshot of it, i want to see how are the Antec True Quiet 140 and the Scythe Glidestream running at idle.

And more naked pics i want to see how it end up =)

I have not run the tuning profile you speak of, but I know what you're referring to. I'm curious what the stock Fractal fans and the Antec fans can do in that regard. I will most likely move the rear exhaust stock fan to the front with the existing stock fan and place one Antec fan at the bottom and one at the rear. I will also most likely bypass the stock fan controller implemented into the case, although I do think it is a cool feature: if the fans themselves can be tweaked with enough granularity via software there's no need for separate hardware control.

More pics will come, I assure you! Again, thanks for your help and guidance! :)


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
hikeskool wrote:
I've found I can't really "pull" the mounts through for fear of snapping the ends off.

I just grabbed 'em with a needle nosed pliers and pulled - I had faith in their elasticity and strength.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:16 pm
Posts: 28
CA_Steve wrote:
hikeskool wrote:
I've found I can't really "pull" the mounts through for fear of snapping the ends off.

I just grabbed 'em with a needle nosed pliers and pulled - I had faith in their elasticity and strength.


That is a good idea, especially if you grab them in the "meaty" part near the base. Nice tip, I think I'll give that a try!


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
This is starting to sound like something posted at a .xxx site...

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1979
Location: Guatemala
CA_Steve wrote:
This is starting to sound like something posted at a .xxx site...
lol, and still no naked pics.... =P

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: "Value" gaming/general use build suggestions, please
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:16 pm
Posts: 28
Abula wrote:
CA_Steve wrote:
This is starting to sound like something posted at a .xxx site...
lol, and still no naked pics.... =P


You guys are too much!

I will be out of town most of Friday and Saturday but we'll see what I can get done over the weekend.


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