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 Post subject: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:43 am
Posts: 7
It's been a while since I last put together a PC, and back then I didn't care about the noise. So now I'll like to upgrade my current setup with something new and not as noisy.

My primary use is gaming, I rarely play anything heavy. So far my current GT9600 has been just enough for the games I've played, though I've had to turn the settings down a bit from time to time.
Besides gaming I do a bit of programming, surfing (max 25 tabs a time), and I run a VM when I need to check my bank account. I fool around in blender every now and then but that's it.
I will be running Windows 8 as my OS.

Parts I've selected so far:
CPU Intel Core i5 I5-4440
There's not real reasoning behind this choice.
I was thinking of getting an i3-4350, difference is only €28 so I don't mind paying extra here. On paper there's a TDP difference (85W vs 54W) but I don't see this outweighing the performance increase, any input would be good.


CPU Cooler Noctua NH-D15 / Scythe Kotetsu
If I plan on replacing the fans in the case with Noctua fans, I was thinking that getting the same fans for my CPU cooler would make a more pleasant noise (is there anything to this reasoning?).
But the Kotetsu has gotten some great praises here on SPCR, and it's a lot cheaper than the Noctua. And I could just as replace the case fans with the Scythe model on the Kotetsu cooler.
Any other suggestions is appreciated.


PSU Corsair RM450
This is a bit overkill for my system, but I can't seem to find another modular semi-fanless (or fanless) PSU without going almost double the price of this one.

Case Fractal Design Define R4
I like the outer design of this case.
It seems big enough inside so I don't have to worry about room for my components.


Case fans Noctua NF-A14
I'll start out just using the Fractal Design Silent Series R2 that comes with the case. If I don't feel these are sufficient I'll change them with the Noctua ones.
But I'm a bit unclear on the whole PWM vs not PWM, will I be able to turn down a non PWM fan without any OS specific software, just BIOS or jumpers?
Depending on what CPU Cooler I get, I might be going for the Scythe GlideStream instead, it's just that I have a Noctua cooler in my HTCP that I'm fond of.


Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x4GB
They're low profile, so I don't have to worry about size of my CPU cooler. I've also been looking at the Tactical version of this, but when I'm looking at reviews it doesn't really seem worth it.

Storage Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB
I only got a 72GB HDD (10k RPM, yes it sounds like a speeding train but when I bought it, it felt like one as well) at the moment, so 250GB will be more than enough.

Misc
Wireless: Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 + Bluetooth for Desktop / ASUS PCE-AC68
I'll be acquiring an ASUS RT-AC68U router, so I can get rid of some wiring.
I've tried searching for reviews and comparisons of these two adapters but I can't really find anything useful.
I'm leaning towards the ASUS because I'll get the ASUS router. On the other hand the Intel also has bluetooth, but I've never used bluetooth for anything and probably never will.
Any experience on the two is very welcome or relevant reviews.


Missing parts:
Motherboard
This is a jungle to me. I don't intend to overclock anything and I don't think I need any fancy features, I think a h97 will be more than enough for me. Some highlights on what I want (think I want) from a motherboard:
  • What I would like is to be able to control my CPU fan PWM. More than 1 PWM controller is not a must, but it would be a lovely bonus if I have to change the case fans and I go for PWM fans instead.
  • I don't care about on board sound, I got an external DAC.
  • I don't need any special network since I'm getting the wireless AC card. It would be nice to have the AC on the motherboard but it seems to me more expensive to get a motherboard with AC than getting one without and buying the adapter. It would be nice if I was able to disable the onboard adapter complete from BIOS.
  • I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for quality components.

Graphics card
I think I'll start with just using the Intel HD Graphics 4600, and if it doesn't work out I'll plugin my old GT9600 or get a MSI GeForce GTX 750Ti GAMING if I feel like splurging. Though I would rather wait for the next gen to come.


Is there anything I'm missing (besides the motherboard), or any of the components that don't do well together, anything at all?

oh ya ... and hi everyone :)


Last edited by Birk on Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:04 am 
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Welcome to SPCR.

Most games can do well with 2 very fast cores. Some can make use of 4 threads/cores or more. I like a quad core just for the ability to have other stuff (music, sometimes video, chat, etc) running in the background without issues while I game.

It's time to retire the 9600 GT. It has a Passmark score of 751 and the HD 4600 is 683. Close enough that the only benefit of the former is as a space heater. If you can list some of the games /monitor resolution, we can better suggest a discrete gpu.

You don't need a monster CPU cooler for a stock i3 or i5. The Kotetsu is fine.

I like the R4 - see my signature for a build thread. You can use it's fan controller set on low - or use your motherboard to control the case fans. The fans are quiet, but not silent.

PSU - probably best to figure out the discrete GPU before finalizing on the PSU...but, with something like the GTX 750 Ti and an i5, your stressed load power is ~190W or less, and somewhere around 150W gaming. So, no/little fan ramp with the RM450.

Storage and RAM: ok

Wireless: The Intel part looks like a laptop solution...where's the antenna?

Motherboard: Yeah, an H97 is fine. Asus has nice UEFI based fan control for both voltage and PWM and their boards are pretty solid. Note that '97 chipset is just 2 months old, so there will still be some rapid firmware/driver updates.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:43 am
Posts: 7
Quote:
Wireless: The Intel part looks like a laptop solution...where's the antenna?

Yep you're right, I linked to the wrong one, the one I was thinking of is this: Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 + Bluetooth for Desktop (I'll fix my first post as well).

About games and monitor, I got an ASUS PA246Q running at 1920x1200 (which is the resolution I use in games as well).
At the moment I play League of Legends, DOTA2, XCOM Enemy Unknown and Smite. I also just started playing Outlast and I'm liking it, so perhaps I'll start getting into more first person games. I'm also thinking of taking up WoW again or another similar MMORPG. All these games are playable on my current setup, though I had to turn down some of the effects and no AA.

Looking at the ASUS H97 motherboards (plus & pro) it seems the plus(ASUS H97-PLUS) fits my needs, the only real difference I could find with the pro is the Intel network adapter, which I'm not going to use.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:19 am 
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Yeah, all of those games have a light footprint. They are playable with integrated graphics, if you are willing to dial down the quality....and all should play well with a fast i3 or even Pentium, if you are cash shy. If you want a more multipurpose platform, go i5. If you want to max out the image quality, the most you'd need is a GTX 750 Ti. I limit the framerate in WoW to 60Hz @ 1080p with max settings and my GTX 760 never goes above 50% load. Just running around questing leads to 40% GPU use, 40-50% on one core, 20-40% on the second core, and trace on the other 2 cores.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 2024
Location: Guatemala
Welcome to SPCR!!! Really nice post, like when people take time into doing a long detail post with links.

Birk wrote:
Parts I've selected so far:
CPU Intel Core i5 I5-4440
There's not real reasoning behind this choice.
I was thinking of getting an i3-4350, difference is only €28 so I don't mind paying extra here. On paper there's a TDP difference (85W vs 54W) but I don't see this outweighing the performance increase, any input would be good.
Personally i would chose a 4960, you can underclock it if you wish, and intel is pretty good underclocking their cpu via the powermanagement of windows, all haswell chips clock down to 800mhz regardless of their top speed (if you allow it on windows). The only issue is if you are in a budget and don't want to pay more. At the rate intel is milking us, we wont see a big jump in cpu power in years, so a good quad should last you a good amount of time, Sandy Bridge is still pretty good today a platform that was released more than 3 years ago.

TDP... from wikki, Thermal design power ---> "The thermal design power (TDP), sometimes called thermal design point, refers to the maximum amount of heat generated by the CPU, which the cooling system in a computer is required to dissipate in typical operation. Rather than specifying CPU's real power dissipation, TDP serves as the nominal value for designing CPU cooling systems"

Yet i own a 84W TPD 4770K that runs about 10C hotter than the 4670K that has the same 84W TDP. For me TDP is just a number that gives you a very wide margin but it defines a range, i personally would prefer if it was more individual for each cpu under load instead of a rating that to me at its current state its just a number that doesn't really tell anything specific about what i will encounter. For me its just more a warning... like looking into Haswell E 130W TDP, i might need a lot more cooling than i need for 4770K but how much.... or between the different models its hard to predict until testing. Either way i would invest on a 4690 because i think its a good cpu and can me tame down with a good tower and still remain quiet, and under idle should be as cool as any other haswell quad.

Birk wrote:
CPU Cooler Noctua NH-D15 / Scythe Kotetsu
If I plan on replacing the fans in the case with Noctua fans, I was thinking that getting the same fans for my CPU cooler would make a more pleasant noise (is there anything to this reasoning?).
But the Kotetsu has gotten some great praises here on SPCR, and it's a lot cheaper than the Noctua. And I could just as replace the case fans with the Scythe model on the Kotetsu cooler.
Any other suggestions is appreciated.
The kotestu seems to offer a lot of performance for its price, i do think the NH-D15 can handle much more heat though, and the noctua fans are pretty solid in terms of noise if you manage to keep them below 900rpms. I think Kotetsu can handle any quad from haswell if you want save money, im just a sucker for big coolers, but its you call.

Birk wrote:
PSU Corsair RM450
This is a bit overkill for my system, but I can't seem to find another modular semi-fanless (or fanless) PSU without going almost double the price of this one.
I think its a good PSU for the money, specially since it will be fanless most of the time, and its been design to avoid coil whinning... something that seasonic has been blamed lately, although personally i own 4x Seasonic PSU and none of them have coil (well the X400 has some if you get your head right next to the PSU but inaudible at 1mt).

Birk wrote:
Case Fractal Design Define R4
I like the outer design of this case.
It seems big enough inside so I don't have to worry about room for my components.
Wonderful case, easy to work with, good cable management, its a solid choice.

Birk wrote:
Case fans Noctua NF-A14
I'll start out just using the Fractal Design Silent Series R2 that comes with the case. If I don't feel these are sufficient I'll change them with the Noctua ones.
But I'm a bit unclear on the whole PWM vs not PWM, will I be able to turn down a non PWM fan without any OS specific software, just BIOS or jumpers?
Depending on what CPU Cooler I get, I might be going for the Scythe GlideStream instead, it's just that I have a Noctua cooler in my HTCP that I'm fond of.
Here its not that easy, im running 4x NF-A14 PWM on my R4 and I really like it, inaudible, and i run them at 225rpms on idle and ramp them as CPU temp goes up, but the fans above 650rpms become audible above 900rpm they become loud, above 1k rpms imo they are not worth it, i have them restricted via bios to not pass 900rpms. There are better sounding fans than the NF-A14 for case fans, like Antec True Quiet 140, imo the best 140mm fan specially for someone persuing a quiet setup, more so with someone going with Asus motherboard and controlling them via fanXpert2, it will allow you to drop them to 200rpms, you can run if you like 4, you wont hear them. They only go up to 800rpms where they are noticible but still very quiet, subjectively speaking more quiet than noctuas on the same rpms. With that said, i still remain on Noctua more so because i like more BIOS fan control instead of software, i had issues with asus on other things that made move on to MSI, i still think Asus is a great choice specially for someone not minding running the AI Suite (i do mind).

So more important before choosing the fans, is how you want to control the fans.... bios? software? external fan controller? then chose the correct motherboard for your intended purpose and then chose the correct fans to the headers.

Birk wrote:
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x4GB
They're low profile, so I don't have to worry about size of my CPU cooler. I've also been looking at the Tactical version of this, but when I'm looking at reviews it doesn't really seem worth it.
Love the memory, no comments here, up to you if you like the tactical or the sport.

Birk wrote:
Storage Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB
I only got a 72GB HDD (10k RPM, yes it sounds like a speeding train but when I bought it, it felt like one as well) at the moment, so 250GB will be more than enough.
I own a couple of 840evo msata on my laptop and they been perfect, imo its one of the best ssds on the market for the money.

Birk wrote:
Missing parts:
Motherboard
This is a jungle to me. I don't intend to overclock anything and I don't think I need any fancy features, I think a h97 will be more than enough for me. Some highlights on what I want (think I want) from a motherboard:
  • What I would like is to be able to control my CPU fan PWM. More than 1 PWM controller is not a must, but it would be a lovely bonus if I have to change the case fans and I go for PWM fans instead.
  • I don't care about on board sound, I got an external DAC.
  • I don't need any special network since I'm getting the wireless AC card. It would be nice to have the AC on the motherboard but it seems to me more expensive to get a motherboard with AC than getting one without and buying the adapter. It would be nice if I was able to disable the onboard adapter complete from BIOS.
  • I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for quality components.
I think Asus H97-PLUS offer a lot for what it costs, it shoudl come with FanXpert3 and rummors place that this new asus gen of motherboards have more than one PWM fan header, personally i dont own one so i cant say for sure, but imo the best bet is to go with PWM fan on the CPU header like the NF-A15 on the NH-C15 or the Scythe Slipstream on the Kotetsu, and Antec True Quiet 140s on the case fans, the CHA_FAN should handle very well the range of operation of the 3pin antec fans.

Image

Birk wrote:
Graphics card
I think I'll start with just using the Intel HD Graphics 4600, and if it doesn't work out I'll plugin my old GT9600 or get a MSI GeForce GTX 750Ti GAMING if I feel like splurging. Though I would rather wait for the next gen to come.
Next gen has yet to be announced, rumors place from ends of this year to mid of 2015, i think the GTX750TI is a good choice for not spending much and gaining a ton of gpu power compared to your 9600, its as good as GTX580 and consumes like 4 times less, overall its maxwell meaning next gen. There are rumors that the yields are bad for next shrink so we might stay on 28nm, so could be very similar to whats on the market just more capable, i think the good jump will come in two gens... but all rumors, nothing solid as of now and its your money, up to you if you want to wait.

PS... check CA_Steve build on his signature for a lot of good info on a very similar build. Btw steve... where the naked pics.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Quote:
Btw steve... where the naked pics.

Every weekend I think about it and every weekend I never seem to get around to it. :D

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:24 pm 
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The 4690 is €40 more than the 4440 (~25%). When I read up on the differences of the two, I only notice the CPU(0.4GHz difference) and GPU(0.1GHz difference). So if I decide to get the 4690 and then underclock it, wouldn't I end up with essentially the same CPU as the 4440, or am I missing something here? I don't really know that much about over and underclocking.

I decided to save some cash and go for the Scythe Kotetsu. And if the Fractal Design fans doesn't do the job well enough I'll be getting the Antec TrueQuiet 140 that Abula suggested. Although I'm still thinking that perhaps having the same fans everywhere will give a better sound signature (so putting in Scythe Glidestream as the fans to match the Kotetsu), is there anything to this or is it just me being superstitious?

Quote:
With that said, i still remain on Noctua more so because i like more BIOS fan control instead of software, i had issues with asus on other things that made move on to MSI, i still think Asus is a great choice specially for someone not minding running the AI Suite (i do mind)

I would like to just control the fans from BIOS instead of having to run a piece of software for this. However the fanXpert seems like a great tool and I'll probably stick with the ASUS, but what advantages, in the fan control department, does MSI have over ASUS?

I'm still not sure about the discrete GPU, I think I'll wait and see how the HD 4600 does before making up my mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:47 am 
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Location: Guatemala
Birk wrote:
The 4690 is €40 more than the 4440 (~25%). When I read up on the differences of the two, I only notice the CPU(0.4GHz difference) and GPU(0.1GHz difference). So if I decide to get the 4690 and then underclock it, wouldn't I end up with essentially the same CPU as the 4440, or am I missing something here? I don't really know that much about over and underclocking.
Its 0.4mhz base difference (3.1ghz vs 3.5ghz), 0.6mhz on turbo (3.3mhz vs 3.9mhz), some motherboards can allow to run turbo as full time like MSI Enhanced turbo, but its €40 and more heat that the cpu will release that will make the fans go up to sustain the same temp or run hotter, if you dont need the extra cpu power or you feel its better to save that money, the 4440 is a good quad. And that €40 could be used toward the Kotetsu =)

Birk wrote:
And if the Fractal Design fans doesn't do the job well enough I'll be getting the Antec TrueQuiet 140 that Abula suggested. Although I'm still thinking that perhaps having the same fans everywhere will give a better sound signature (so putting in Scythe Glidestream as the fans to match the Kotetsu), is there anything to this or is it just me being superstitious?
All fans have their own sonic signature, Fractal fans are not bad but they are not good either, just average fans, but they do drop to around 400rpms, where depending on your ambient you might not hear them. Scythe slipstream imo have also a very good signature, weather glidestream carry the same idk, should, but i dont own one to know. And about matching... between having different purposes, i just try to get fans that will furfill the slot the best that i can with the minimum noise.

SPCR did review last year a lot 140s, including noctuas and Antecs, you should read them.
First 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
Second 140 mm Fan Roundup: Antec, bequiet!, Corsair, Scythe

Birk wrote:
I'm still not sure about the discrete GPU, I think I'll wait and see how the HD 4600 does before making up my mind.
Its fine to do it later on, as the cpu has the iGPU and you have the 9600 if you want, but i do feel the MSI GTX750Ti is a good GPU for what it costs, for what it delivers in gpu power, for what it consumes in power, and specially because its quiet, thinking you will invest into each component being quiet the GPU is a key part into how quiet your setup will end up.

Birk wrote:
I would like to just control the fans from BIOS instead of having to run a piece of software for this. However the fanXpert seems like a great tool and I'll probably stick with the ASUS, but what advantages, in the fan control department, does MSI have over ASUS?
Here is not as simple, if you want to go into pure bios fan control and PWM fans you will need PWM fan splitters and depending on the motherboard, you might only have 1 true PWM fan header, so all fans will move at the same speed (if they have the same pwm design), so you lose individual fan control, you also need PWM fans that there are not that many options, reason im with Noctua atm is because i didnt find anything that could have its range of pwm control. You also need a motherboard with low restrictions on bios pwm fan control, MSI is what i used and has been good, AsRock also seems to be a good option, Asus on the other hand has higher restrictions on pure bios, so i would avoid them if thats your intention.

On the other hand Asus is pretty solid with FanXpert, it overides the BIOS restrictions in both PWM and 3pin voltage control headers, so it allows to do some nice voltage dropping, very close to the limits of any fan. You also gain individual fan control (depending if you motherboard has enough headers).

My recommendation is to go with Asus H97Plus + i5 4440 + Scythe Kotestu + 3x Antec True Quiet 140s + MSI GTX750Ti, its the cheapest route to end up with a very quiet setup.

Good luck with the choices,

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:11 am 
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If you're interested there's a thread for my build which is sort of similar to yours, although I have a smaller case and didn't install a graphics card yet.

Just upgraded the stock cooler to a Scythe Shuriken 2 rev. B and am very satisfied with this one so far - huge improvement.

EDIT: Just having finished a similar build, I feel that 3 case fans is way overkill. There doesn't seem to be anything to generate that much heat. If I continuously max all cores on my 4690K I reach 60°C and 1200 RPM after a while. In a compact case without fans. So there's still plenty of margin, and that's with a low-profile cooler... Maybe if you get the upcoming passive 750 Ti you'd need 1 case fan.

Just my 2¢, others here have more experience. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:23 am 
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gaidal wrote:
EDIT: Just having finished a similar build, I feel that 3 case fans is way overkill. There doesn't seem to be anything to generate that much heat. If I continuously max all cores on my 4690K I reach 60°C and 1200 RPM after a while. In a compact case without fans. So there's still plenty of margin, and that's with a low-profile cooler.
Thanks for the experience sharing, that's good to know. I think I'll start out with no extra case fans, fool around with the supplied case fans (turning them off, moving them around, or tuning them in any other way possible) and if I'm not satisfied I'll look into getting some other fans.

gaidal wrote:
Maybe if you get the upcoming passive 750 Ti you'd need 1 case fan.
I had been thinking about waiting for the passive 750 Ti or not getting a discrete GPU at all but I think I'll get the MSI.
Later on if I get new fans for the case I'll think about grabbing an Accelero S1 PLUS, I've never changed a GPU cooler and would fun to give it a try.

I've decided to go for the ASUS H97-Pro instead of the Plus, it's almost the same price and I get 1 extra CHA_FAN (not that I need it right now) and it supports Fan Xpert 3, where the Plus only supports Fan Xpert 2 (if I read ASUS website correct).

So to sum it up, my current list looks like this:
CPU Intel Core i5 I5-4690
CPU Cooler Scythe Kotetsu
PSU Corsair RM450
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x4GB
Storage Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB
Motherboard ASUS H97-Pro
Graphics card MSI GeForce GTX 750Ti GAMING
Misc ASUS PCE-AC68

I think I'll sleep on it, and then order tomorrow.
Thanks for all your inputs.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:17 am 
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Posts: 41
Birk wrote:
gaidal wrote:
... If I continuously max all cores on my 4690K I reach 60°C and 1200 RPM after a while. ...
Thanks for the experience sharing, that's good to know.
...
After doing this for an hour it's more like 65°C (at 1400 RPM). Just to leave honest data in the forum. :-)

Birk wrote:
I think I'll start out with no extra case fans, fool around with the supplied case fans (turning them off, moving them around, or tuning them in any other way possible) and if I'm not satisfied I'll look into getting some other fans.
Yeah, building the computer incrementally is a good idea if you can. There are many things you don't know until you try, and... why not? At least where I live everything has free shipping.

Birk wrote:
I had been thinking about waiting for the passive 750 Ti or not getting a discrete GPU at all but I think I'll get the MSI.
The passive 750 Ti from Palit is already announced and that seems easier, safer and probably cheaper than the Accelero mod... :)
On the other hand, the MSI card is supposedly really quiet even with the fan, and then you don't have to worry as much about airflow.
I'll just add that I was going to get a 750 Ti too, but I'm so satisfied with the integrated graphics that I'll wait a generation or so. I only play Dota 2 and Starcraft 2 though.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:23 am 
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Looks like a nice parts list. :D

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:36 am 
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Birk wrote:
So to sum it up, my current list looks like this:
CPU Intel Core i5 4690
CPU Cooler Scythe Kotetsu
PSU Corsair RM450
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x4GB
Storage Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB
Motherboard ASUS H97-Pro
Graphics card MSI GeForce GTX 750Ti GAMING
Misc ASUS PCE-AC68
All seem solid components, like all the choices. Going with the i5 4440 is still a good option, since you are saving money, its up to you weather that extra 40 are worth it or not.

Birk wrote:
I've decided to go for the ASUS H97-Pro instead of the Plus, it's almost the same price and I get 1 extra CHA_FAN (not that I need it right now) and it supports Fan Xpert 3, where the Plus only supports Fan Xpert 2 (if I read ASUS website correct).
Interestingly the PRO version of the H87 was the best balanced of features and size, the Plus is not full atx doesnt reach the last set of screws, but for some wierd reason was mostly sold on newegg and discontinued very fast, i never could buy one for a friend and had to go on the H87 plus. Searching newegg there is no PRO that i could find, but i also agree i would go with Pro over the Plus.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:31 am 
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So I got my parts, and I've pieced it all together now (though my living room still looks like a battlefield, if one where fighting with cardboard and small plastic bags).

I haven't gotten around to doing any actual testing with fans or anything of that sort yet, but I thought I would share some of my learnings (though some may be trivial and only relevant for my exact parts), and I also have a few questions.

Learnings:
    SSD Mounting: Mount the SSD before you mount the motherboard if you want to attach it to the back of motherboard mounting plate.
    On the Fractal Design R4 you can place the SSD on the back of the motherboard mounting plate. This is really cool because it allows you to remove all the HDD cages, if you only have 1 or 2 SSD disks.
    Unfortunately I only realized this after I had mounted the motherboard, and you can't screw in the SSD screws when the motherboard is attached to it's mounting plate.


    SSD Power cable: When mounting the SSD on the back plate, you have to force the Corsair cables a bit.
    The Corsair RM450 only comes with 90deg connectors on the SATA power cables, even the last connector has this L form. This means that when you mount the SSD on the back of the Fractal Design R4 motherboard mounting plate, you have to be a bit aggressive when forcing the connector in.
    I've contacted Corsair to hear if they have any straight connectors but unfortunately they don't, so do anyone have any suggestions? (I've been thinking about opening up the connector and modifying it so it becomes straight but I would like to avoid this)
    Image
    The SATA cable plugged into the SSD, mounted on the motherboard back plate

Questions:
    Where is the Fractal Design R4 speaker cable?
    I can't seem to find the R4 speaker cables so I can get my boot up beeps, do I have to get this as a spare part?
    I can see there's a HD Audio cable, but my guess is it's use for the audio I/O on the front of the case?


    What applications can I use to test stuff?
    I need some applications that can stress my system a bit, and some that measure my RPM and temperatures. So far I've found the following.
    Prime95 for CPU stressing.
    FurMark for GPU stressing (is that the official site for FurMark, I'm having trouble finding something that looks more legit than others).
    HWMonitor for measuring temperatures and RPMs.

    Can anyone recommend any other good applications?


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:40 am 
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Location: ITALY
Birk wrote:
SSD Power cable: When mounting the SSD on the back plate, you have to force the Corsair cables a bit.

Use a short SATA extension cable with straight connectors, for reliability purpose.


Birk wrote:
    Where is the Fractal Design R4 speaker cable?
    I can't seem to find the R4 speaker cables so I can get my boot up beeps, do I have to get this as a spare part?
    I can see there's a HD Audio cable, but my guess is it's use for the audio I/O on the front of the case?

AFAIK inside the R4 there is no case speaker so that you can't hear the post beep if your mobo doesn't have its own.


Birk wrote:
    What applications can I use to test stuff?
    I need some applications that can stress my system a bit, and some that measure my RPM and temperatures. So far I've found the following.
    Prime95 for CPU stressing.
    FurMark for GPU stressing (is that the official site for FurMark, I'm having trouble finding something that looks more legit than others).
    HWMonitor for measuring temperatures and RPMs.

    Can anyone recommend any other good applications?

Useful tools are OCCT and Intel Burn Test for stressing; about monitoring, ASUS has its own tools suite, but you can also try Open Hardware Monitor and SpeedFan (this latter may control fan speeds if possible, as well as the ASUS relevant tool).

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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:48 am 
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Birk wrote:
Where is the Fractal Design R4 speaker cable?
A lot of manufacturers have skip this feature on most of their cases, but you can buy a separate speaker with its pin to connect to the motherboard if you find you do need it, FrozenCPU Motherboard 4-Pin Speaker Alarm

Birk wrote:
I can see there's a HD Audio cable, but my guess is it's use for the audio I/O on the front of the case?
Yes, it should be for having frontal 3.5 connectors for microphone and headphones / Headset, personally i never connect it, but some do like having this options.

Birk wrote:
SSD Power cable: When mounting the SSD on the back plate, you have to force the Corsair cables a bit.
The Corsair RM450 only comes with 90deg connectors on the SATA power cables, even the last connector has this L form. This means that when you mount the SSD on the back of the Fractal Design R4 motherboard mounting plate, you have to be a bit aggressive when forcing the connector in.
I've contacted Corsair to hear if they have any straight connectors but unfortunately they don't, so do anyone have any suggestions? (I've been thinking about opening up the connector and modifying it so it becomes straight but I would like to avoid this)
Image
There are aftermarket solutions for flat sata power cables like Mod/Smart SATA 15 Pin Power Extension Cable - Black - 12" (PC-S15P-12X-BK)

Birk wrote:
What applications can I use to test stuff?
Prime95 for CPU stressing.
FurMark for GPU stressing (is that the official site for FurMark, I'm having trouble finding something that looks more legit than others).
HWMonitor for measuring temperatures and RPMs.
Can anyone recommend any other good applications?
Thats what i used as well, OCCT comes to mind also as good all around tester similar to prime95/furmark, but i personally prefer the two separated. HWmonitor is what i used to measure most of the time. CoreTemp or Realtemp are more light weight if only cpu temps are the target, but i prefer HWmonitor for doing testing into seeing other temps and fan rpms, worth mentioning that in some motherboards like my ASUS Maixmus VI Gene, it doesnt seem to pick up the CPU_OPT rpms, only the FanXpert2 software could. Another thing worth mentioning, is that AI Suite sometimes has conflicts with running other probes at the same time with it, some have experience error on measurements, etc, but at the same time Asus has some weird ways of measuring CPU temps, they have their own algorithm to calculate cpu temp, its not core temp nor package, but their own formula that uses multiple censors to give a more accurate cpu temperature, or thats what they say.

Be sure to test AI Suite / FanXpert as its pretty good fan control software, and the main reason its easy to get quiet setup with asus, once you run the "tuning", it will test all your fans that are plugged to the motherboard headers and give you a graph per fan into what range is controllable, you can keep it as it is, or modify it to your own personal liking.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:47 am 
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So for anyone who might be interested, here's a small update.

I've made a quick stress test with Prime95 and Furmark, running them at the same time and each on their own, it seemed my system got more stressed with just Prime95 running alone.
I used both HWMonitor and ASUS fanXpert to do some measuring, they gave different temperatures, but the RPM was almost the same. I've included the HWMonitor dump below (fanXpert says the motherboard is around 30deg, and not 115. HWMonitor must be doing something wrong, it can't measure the CPU fan either):
Image

A weird thing I noticed is that one of the fans can go lower than the other fan (they are both the same make and model, the Fractal Design fans that came with the case). It's not much 36% vs 40%, but It's noticeable on the RPM measurements. You can see the HWMonitor screenshot, note that fan #2 is at 556 minimum while fan #3 is at 471
It's not an actual problem, I just think it's kind of weird, is it an unusual thing or is it to be expected?

It also seems that I don't need fanXpert for the fans I got now, the BIOS can tune them down to 40% as well (though the discrepancy on the fans do allow fanXpert to tune 1 of the fans down lower than the BIOS can).
Perhaps if I get some other fans, fanXpert will outshine the BIOS, and though I can't hear my PC when it's on (from where my head is at while using it), I'm still thinking of trying some other case fans, just for the fun of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:13 am 
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There's always some variability in fan mfgr that can account for the difference in rpm. It could also be the output on one fan header is slightly different than the other as well.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on a light gaming build.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:44 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
There's always some variability in fan mfgr that can account for the difference in rpm. It could also be the output on one fan header is slightly different than the other as well.

from noctua;
Rotational Speed (+/- 10%) 1500 RPM
Rotational Speed with L.N.A. (+/- 10%) 1200 RPM
Min. Rotational Speed (PWM, +/-20%) 300 RPM

Id say OP should be very happy with his variance. :mrgreen:

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