new gaming/media server build

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sschnee
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new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:12 pm

I have an idea that I want to build a new computer this summer or fall as Fallout 4 is coming out, and my current PC, based around a Q9400 Core2Quad and passive 5750 GPU in an Antec Solo is getting old.

My idea is to build a quiet, hopefully efficient, and fast machine that can play Fallout 4 at high settings at 1080p. I am also interested in getting back into Starcraft2, and playing the upcoming (hopefully) Doom 4. I'd also like to set up Plex media server on this computer, with my Roku devices acting as the clients, so I'll need some storage space. I don't know how much. I have maybe 40 DVDs to rip, but I don't know how much space to estimate for this.

Here's my somewhat vague idea for a build, and I'd be happy to hear opinions.

Case: Antec Solo II, as I like the idea of suspending the HDD(s) needed for storing my movies.
CPU: Whatever quad core Core i5 is out when I get around to building this. Not sure how fast I need it to be, or if it matters much whether I end up with a Haswell, Broadwell, or Sky Lake chip.
CPU Cooler: Scythe Ninja 4 or Kotetsu
MoBo: Whatever ATX ASUS motherboard fits my CPU.
SSD: Samsung 850, either 256 or 512 BG. I don't yet know which I'll need, but probably the smaller one is fine, as my current WD Blue only has about 150GB on it.
HDD: 1 or 2 WD Red drives, as needed for movies. Are the 2.5" drive much quieter than the 3.5"?
Fans: I'll probably keep the True Quiet fan that comes with the Solo II as exhaust, and add in 2 120mm intakes, either Scythe or Antec. I'm open to input here. I imagine running the fans off the motherboard, controlled by ASUS FanXpert 3, unless that's a bad idea.
GPU: Asus Strix GTX 960 or 970. Will either Fallout 4 or Doom benefit from the 970 over the 960 4GB? I would guess Starcraft2 is fine with the 960.
PSU: I'm totally open here. I imagine whatever Gold or Platinum passive or semi passive PSU is ok, if it's on the SPCR list. I would think 450W and up is fine.
Optical Drive: DVD reader/burner. No brand preference so far
RAM: 8GB enough? Get 16?
OS: Windows 10

So, what should I be reconsidering here?

Thanks,
Steve

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:34 pm

Are you ripping BluRay disks or just DVDs? Are you planning to compress or leave as is? Just those two questions can give a 100:1 ratio for needed disk space :) A straight copy of a BluRay disk is 30-50GB. So, 40 not compressed movies could fill a 2 TB drive. Call it 300+ not compressed DVD movies to fill the same drive.

In general, it looks like a good build. We don't know how much Fallout or Doom will hammer gpu resources...they weren't very heavy in the past. For 1080p, the GTX 960 "should" be fine.

Skylake hits in August/Sept. Figure mobo's will be stable by November. If that plays into your timing. No Broadwell CPUs worth purchasing for this. Yes, an i5 is fine.

If you only have a couple of applications and a few games, then yes, 250GB SSD is fine. If you think you'll be adding a lot more games (and they tend to be getting LARGER in file size), then prepare to do the SSD to HDD shuffle to archive the older ones.

sschnee
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:44 am

Regular DVDs, not BluRays.
I don't know whether I want them compressed. Would it make streaming them much harder if they are?

Fallout 4 is supposed to be released Nov 10th. Is it possible to have a Sky Lake system put together by then, do you think?

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:02 am

Regular DVD's? Then you just need one HDD. A single layer DVD is 4.7GB, dual layer is 8.5GB. Worst case is 8.5*40 = 340GB. Compression - don't bother if you want to.

Skylake build: sure, you can do a build in September if you want to. My recommendation is to wait a few months to let the inevitable mobo bugs/firmware/driver changes settle down a bit. Also, might be useful to wait for some Fallout 4 benchmarks to arrive before committing to a gpu. It looks like Bethesda is using a newer version of the graphics engine deployed in Skyrim/Elder Scrolls.

sschnee
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:29 pm

OK, so a single WD Red would be fine. I understand the 3TB version is quieter than the 4TB, so I'll probably get that, unless you think a 2.5" drive would make a big difference.

Do I need 16GB of RAM, or is 8GB the right amount for this system?

For case fans, it seems that the Scythe fans I was thinking of are hard to get in the US, so maybe I'd get the Noiseblocker M12-S1.

Does it matter what optical drive I pick, noise-wise? It won't be in use most of the time anyway.

For the PSU, I'm planning on the Rosewell Silent Night 500W, with my backup plan being the Seasonic Platinum Fanless 520 if the Rosewell is unavailable when I get around to buying parts.

Any problems with these parts?

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:39 pm

The 2.5" can be quieter...but, I don't think it matters....if your apps are on the SSD and the HDD is only used for media and backups, you can set the HDD to spin down after a few minutes of inactivity. You'll hardly ever hear it except at boot and when you are doing rips. When it's used as a streamer, you'll be sitting on the couch/somewhere else watching a movie.

8GB is all you need.

additional case fans: I'll let someone else chime in.

ODD: same as above.

PSU: ok. Price has really come down on the Rosewill - $90 at newegg and amazon.

boost
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by boost » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:52 pm

sschnee wrote:OK, so a single WD Red would be fine. I understand the 3TB version is quieter than the 4TB, so I'll probably get that, unless you think a 2.5" drive would make a big difference.
When the 3.5" drive is suspended there isn't a big difference.
sschnee wrote:CPU: Whatever quad core Core i5 is out when I get around to building this. Not sure how fast I need it to be, or if it matters much whether I end up with a Haswell, Broadwell, or Sky Lake chip.
The Skylake based i5-6600K will probably be the best bang for the buck. It launches August 5th along with the 6700K and matching Z170 mainboards. Other variants will follow late August/early September.
CA_Steve wrote:GPU: Asus Strix GTX 960 or 970. Will either Fallout 4 or Doom benefit from the 970 over the 960 4GB? I would guess Starcraft2 is fine with the 960.
For vanilla Fallout in a 1080 resolution the 960 is OK. For Skyrim there where a lot of mods with higher requirements. Fallout games where never as heavily modded as Skyrim, but if you want to add mods for better graphics I would suggest you buy the 970.
sschnee wrote:For case fans, it seems that the Scythe fans I was thinking of are hard to get in the US, so maybe I'd get the Noiseblocker M12-S1.
Noctua S12A and S12B are other good options. I would add an intake fan to the Antec Solo II.
sschnee wrote:For the PSU, I'm planning on the Rosewell Silent Night 500W, with my backup plan being the Seasonic Platinum Fanless 520 if the Rosewell is unavailable when I get around to buying parts.
I'm not a big fan of fanless PSUs any more. I switched from a Seasonic 460FL to a beQuiet 580CM and I can't hear a difference.

quest_for_silence
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:48 am

CA_Steve wrote:additional case fans: I'll let someone else chime in.

Providing some form of fan control is used, the NB M12 S2/PS are better (more flexible) options than the proposed S1, as well the already mentioned (by boost) Noctua S12, maybe in the Redux flavour.

And buy that Rosewill before it's gone (it's EOL: what a shame they don't have MassDrop-like shipping charges on Amazon, I would buy it immediately!).

sschnee
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:07 am

Is the 6600K chip still the best bang for the buck if I don't plan on overclocking, or is the non-K variant better?

I'll look in to the Noctua fans as well as the fast Noiseblocker fans, as I will want 1 exhaust in the back and probably will put two intakes up front, controlled by the motherboard.

Steve

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by CA_Steve » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:54 pm

sschnee wrote:Is the 6600K chip still the best bang for the buck if I don't plan on overclocking, or is the non-K variant better?Steve
My psychic powers don't tell me what the final SKU specs and their pricing are. Crystal ball says wait until they are intro'd and reviewed. Then make a decision. :)

sschnee
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:12 pm

CA_Steve wrote:
sschnee wrote:Is the 6600K chip still the best bang for the buck if I don't plan on overclocking, or is the non-K variant better?Steve
My psychic powers don't tell me what the final SKU specs and their pricing are. Crystal ball says wait until they are intro'd and reviewed. Then make a decision. :)
Lol. Point taken.

boost
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by boost » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:58 pm

CA_Steve wrote:
sschnee wrote:Is the 6600K chip still the best bang for the buck if I don't plan on overclocking, or is the non-K variant better?Steve
My psychic powers don't tell me what the final SKU specs and their pricing are. Crystal ball says wait until they are intro'd and reviewed. Then make a decision. :)
In the past the new 2500k was replaced by the 3570k which in turn was replaced by the 4670k. The 6600k being it's natural succesor should replace the 4670k at the same price point. It's all speculation, but there's enough precedent to assume Intel still oprates this way in 2015.

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by xan_user » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:52 pm

boost wrote: ...2500k was replaced by the 3570k which in turn was replaced by the 4670k. The 6600k being it's natural succesor should replace the 4670k at the same price point. .....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:38 am

boost wrote:In the past the new 2500k was replaced by the 3570k which in turn was replaced by the 4670k. The 6600k being it's natural succesor should replace the 4670k at the same price point. It's all speculation, but there's enough precedent to assume Intel still oprates this way in 2015.
Yeah - that wasn't the question :) The question was: Go with K or non-K if not overclocking?

sschnee
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:09 am

About the case. I really do like the look of that Rosewill Legacy W1.

I read the MIni ITX review where the fans didn't control well. How hard would it be to quietly cool a GTX 970 and i5 not overclocked in that case, if I were to replace the 140mm fans with ones the motherboard could control?

Abula
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by Abula » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:36 am

sschnee wrote:About the case. I really do like the look of that Rosewill Legacy W1.

I read the MIni ITX review where the fans didn't control well. How hard would it be to quietly cool a GTX 970 and i5 not overclocked in that case, if I were to replace the 140mm fans with ones the motherboard could control?
The fans are not bad, the problem is they are not controllable, at least i coudlnt do much wiht FanXpert2 on a build that i did for a friend, i had to leave them at 1000rpms, where they were not noisy, but not not needed for an idle condition. If i were buidling on it again, i would swap the fans on it, but will depend on the motherboard,

For PWM headers
Noctua SSO Bearing Fan Retail Cooling NF-P14s redux-1200 PWM

For 3pin headers (or 4pin fake PWM)
Noctua SSO Bearing Fan Retail Cooling NF-P14s redux-900
Antec TrueQuiet 140 140mm Cooling Fan

On the GTX970, i would recommend to consider MSI GTX 970 GAMING 4G LE GeForce GTX 970 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5 HDCP Ready SLI Support ATX Video Card or MSI GTX 960 GAMING 4G GeForce GTX 960 4GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support ATX Video Card and save the money for a future pascal GPU upgrade.

For motherboard, i would go with ASUS H97I-PLUS LGA 1150 Intel H97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard, great value if you are not overclocking, and perfect CPU socket placement to use a tower cooler.

sschnee
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:47 am

Thanks for the reply.

Did you recommend the MSI gaming GPUs over the Asus Strix ones because they are quieter?


Steve

sschnee
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:32 pm

Abula,

Does the Asus H97 have true PWM fan control for the case fans? I had heard the the 87 boards didn't really. Is that fixed for H97 and Z97 boards now?

Thanks,
Steve

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by CA_Steve » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:37 pm

sschnee wrote:Does the Asus H97 have true PWM fan control for the case fans? I had heard the the 87 boards didn't really. Is that fixed for H97 and Z97 boards now?
Yes, True, and Yes.

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by Abula » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:38 pm

sschnee wrote:Did you recommend the MSI gaming GPUs over the Asus Strix ones because they are quieter?
Yes, well, really depends, if you plan on loading them, i feel MSI is quiter on load, but Asus is pretty good also if you dont load it.
sschnee wrote:Does the Asus H97 have true PWM fan control for the case fans? I had heard the the 87 boards didn't really. Is that fixed for H97 and Z97 boards now?
In theory yes, it suposse to have Q-Fan for each header on the bios so you can switch between PWM and Voltage controlled, in practice i cant say for sure, even though i did build on an H97i, i didnt have much time to play with it, but the comments that others have said go toward that.

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:36 am

Build time is rapidly approaching and I thought I'd resurrect this post

Updated build

Case: Antec solo ii
Case fans: 3 of the Antec True Quiet 120s
PSU: Rosewill Silent Night 500W
CPU: i5 6500 or 6600
MB: Asus H170 Pro Gaming
RAM: 8GB DDR4
CPU Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu
SSD: Samsung Evo 512GB
HDD: WD red 3TB
Whatever DVD drive I find, unless there's a recommended one out there
Windows 10

Still haven't decide on he GPU. I saw the Fallout 4 specs are out, with a minimum of a 550Ti and a recommended 980, but don't really know what I need for 1080p with good looking, not necessarily max, settings.

Any help with the GPU or if you see any problems with the above build, please let me know.

Thanks

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:07 pm

Until they release the game to reviewers for benchmarking, guessing the gfx horsepower needed is a crap shoot. For grins, here's Skyrim benchmarked at 1080p at low and ultra AA/AF settings and even the GTX 950 does great. Say the updated engine cuts fps by a factor of 2, it'd still run 40+fps maxed out. The Asus Strix or MSI Gaming GTX 950 2GB is ~$150, the GTX 960 2GB is $175, and the 4GB (only if you want to run high aftermarket textures...and again, we don't know the load factors, yet) is $200/210. I think that's the zone you'd want to play in. Pick your poison.

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by boost » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:11 am

I think Steve's answer is right, I'd like to add some details based on my Skyrim modding experience. I played Skyrim with extensive modding, more than 150 mods in the load order.
The vanilla game should run fine on a GTX 950 2 GB with a 1920x1080 resolution. Graphical mods that add new meshes or textures eat up VRAM and you can use more mods with higher resolution textures on a 4GB card. There is a performance drop, but you should be ok with a GTX 960 4GB for these.
The biggest drop in performance comes from ENB mods. These add shaders to all or some lighting and can drastically change the look of the game all the way from supersaturated colors to very dark and gloomy. ENB mods need lots of graphics horsepower, for a 1080 resolution I would recommend a GTX 970 or even a GTX 980. All of this is based on Skyrim, a fantasy game that might benefit more from these effects than the retrofuturistic wasteland.

sschnee
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm

I just wanted to post what became my build. Many thanks to those who answered my questions and gave their opinions.

Case: Antec Solo II
PSU: Rosewill Silent Night 500W
MB: ASUS H170 Pro Gaming
CPU: Intel i5 6500
CPU Cooler: Scythe Ninja 4
GPU: MSI 970 GTX Gaming 4G
Ram: 8GB DDR4
Case Fans: 3 of the Antec True Quiet 120s
DVD Drive: Asus, I forget which model
SSD: Samsung Evo 500GB, attached to case in that spot below the drive cage
HDD: WD Red 3TB, suspended

I've not used it for anything beyond web browsing and installing the programs I need, but it's very quiet at idle, not silent. It's quieter at idle than my last build, and I'm happy with it.

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by Abula » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:26 pm

sschnee wrote:I just wanted to post what became my build. Many thanks to those who answered my questions and gave their opinions.

Case: Antec Solo II
PSU: Rosewill Silent Night 500W
MB: ASUS H170 Pro Gaming
CPU: Intel i5 6500
CPU Cooler: Scythe Ninja 4
GPU: MSI 970 GTX Gaming 4G
Ram: 8GB DDR4
Case Fans: 3 of the Antec True Quiet 120s
DVD Drive: Asus, I forget which model
SSD: Samsung Evo 500GB, attached to case in that spot below the drive cage
HDD: WD Red 3TB, suspended
Congrats, seems like pretty nice build.
sschnee wrote:I've not used it for anything beyond web browsing and installing the programs I need, but it's very quiet at idle, not silent. It's quieter at idle than my last build, and I'm happy with it.
Are you using FanXpert2? it should be inaudible at idle.

sschnee
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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:25 am

Fan Xpert3, yes. It's on Silent mode.

The only fan spinning is the Scythe CPU fan at 419 rpm, but I can hear it. It's not an unpleasant noise, but it's audible.

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by Abula » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:05 am

sschnee wrote:Fan Xpert3, yes. It's on Silent mode.

The only fan spinning is the Scythe CPU fan at 419 rpm, but I can hear it. It's not an unpleasant noise, but it's audible.
You got a nice hearing to hear it at that speed on a closed case.

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:07 am

Abula wrote:You got a nice hearing to hear it at that speed on a closed case.

Or a very low noise floor, or a very close case placement, or both (even possibly paired with a nice hearing). :wink:
BTW in case the OP may try some either lower spinning or better sounding fan than those Scythe Glidestream/Falcon/Hayabusa.

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by sschnee » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:28 am

I have good hearing, and the case is on the desk, right next to me. The room is quiet when my kids aren't in it.

What fan might you suggest to replace the stock Scythe fan?

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Re: new gaming/media server build

Post by Abula » Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:16 pm

sschnee wrote:I have good hearing, and the case is on the desk, right next to me. The room is quiet when my kids aren't in it.

What fan might you suggest to replace the stock Scythe fan?
Well not that many fans can drop lower than the Glidestream, one that i know will drop lower under fanXpert is Noctua NF-S12A PWM, its not a fan meant for heatsinks, its more for case fans, but imo so is the slipstream/glidestream. I have used it on a HR22 with a i3 and worked fine, but never really tested on i7, but it will drop down below 300rpms, here is fanXpert2 run on it on the CPU fan header, you can see the idle is around 252rpms, to me complelty inaudible even on a quiet room, the question goes more into how will it perform underload with i7.

Image

Another fan that could work is Scythe Gentle Typhoon, the problem is that they are discontinued and getting them is a lot harder. These fans are 3pin, but Asus motherboards can switch their PWM fan header (CPU_FAN) from PWM control to Voltage Control by entering the bios and changing the Q-FAN from AUTO to ADVANCED. Scythe GT AP12 or AP13 would be ideal, but really hard to get either, here are some fanXpert2 runs,

Image

Image

Both will drop below 350rpms under fanXpert, check the graph under TEST FAN for the idle rpms, but do take into account that samples can vary some, but the real problem is getting one.

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