Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

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trodas
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:30 pm

If you slap those "thing" on 960, I think it will just do fine on passive. Some mfg should make 950/960 passive sooner or later.
Well, the GTX 950 have just a puny 90W one, while 960 is 120W one power-source wise. Therefore I doubt that I could go passive... Think about several hours of gaming, mate. But if the temps are low, then I slap two 750rpm Noiseblocker 120mm fans (Noiseblocker NB-Multiframe M12-S1), while before I planed to go with two 1000rpm Noiseblocker 120mm fans (Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentFan XL1).

That could be good to keep the noise down...

And there is no "if" I do that. I will do it, absolutely and definitively. As soon, as I get my hands on that thing. They say 12.12. is the date, with is a bit late, IMHO. Also the Asus Z97-PRO seems to be delayed. Even the next company says, that it will be there 11.12.... and 17.12. in later email. Suxx!

There is probably only one issue about the Raijintek Morpheus I can foresee - the cooler is so massive, that it will definitively bend the card down. However that is why I choose the MSI one, because it have this top metal plate:
http://images.bit-tech.net/content_imag ... 960-9b.jpg

...so I use the plate to attach a support brace to the top of the case, detachable when diassembling, and I should be fine :)


Today, despite it is Saturday, a PPL come with the Samsung SM951 M.2 128G SSD and Akasa AK-PAX-2:

Image

So slowly but surely the components come. Now it is a good question to ask, what is the progress on the 3 pcs of 750rpm Noiseblocker M12-S1 fans I have ordered for the case cooling for quite some time... :evil:

baii
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by baii » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:39 pm

The cooler came in yesterday, haven't mount it yet as I need to prep the mid plate on my 290. Hopefully can put it in by tomorrow night.

initial impression

I bought the black version,seems like the black is not anodized but some kind of glossy metallic paint.Not sure if it will degrade the performance. It is really not that heavy. I compare it to the pcs+ 290 cooler it is slight thicker and have 1 more heatpipe spreading out more nicely buy that pretty much it. though it have its own concave and fin cutting in and out compare to just flat heatsink typical gpu cooler have.

It come with 1 slightly bented fin, eww, but not gonna go crazy about it ~

Packaging is meh, no foam no nothing ehh.. but is 20usd cheaper than the mk26 so w.e. also no back x plate compare to mk26~

Edit : Was digging around, there is one more choice called Alpenföhn Peter ii if you are located in euro.

trodas
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:25 pm

I slightly envy you, that your cooler made it to you already...

ATM I get the MSI GTX 960 GAMING 4G graphic caard and the i7-4790K CPU (LGA1150, 4.0GHz (4.4GHz turbo), Vcore 0.976V), but nothing more yet:

Image

All delayed.
The MSI GTX 960 card is weird, it reporting 53°C under load, but at that moment I cannot keep my finger on the heatpipes (can for second and something, then it become to be exponencialy more painfull with time and I'm not that big masochists to push for more when it really hurts...), hence they are probably at 70°C or more...
That translate to the fans not spinning much at all. Not even during gaming or 3D benching. When run 3DMark 03, the fans spin first only in the end of the Troll liar bench (3rd one) and keep very, very slow. Unaudible. Yet IMHO the card is overheating, so I need the cooler bad :(

...

I ordered plain shiny version, so no paint for me :) Pls report your sucess or failure with it, at best with pics :) I can provide some from my testing too, but this is the old MSI X58Pro-E mobo with Xeon in it - just testing:

Image Image Image Image Image

Runs nicely. Played whole BF3 thru with it, and even I think it IS overheating, it hold up pretty well. I even recorder temps log in GPU-Z from two last levels of BF3 (yep, the assault by Russian GRU forces on the villa and the endgame in NYC):
http://www.mediafire.com/?wj4nwd9rc8110jj

Framerate is (Ultra textures settings, 16x AF, rest medium, blur and AA off (only 3.4GHz Xeon 6 cores, 12 threads) ) 200fps in cut-in scenes and 150 - 160fps in game. Not bad for old-ass Xeon at poor 3.4GHz.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by CA_Steve » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:35 pm

trodas - I think we need to reset your perception of hot :)

Read this article.

Your card is fine. If it were overheating, it'd be throttling. Stop touching hot things. :D

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by xan_user » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:23 pm

or just touch a 120 watt light bulb for comparison. :mrgreen:

trodas
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:13 pm

CA_Steve -
trodas - I think we need to reset your perception of hot
I believe that I'm the wrong person to experiment with. The problem is, that I solder electronics since 6 years. Born in 1975, so I did quite a lot soldering and sometimes I'm not very carefull and bad things happens to me, such as:
- I touched (briefly) a 330°C hot soldering iron (skin get white, no pain, replaced with new skin in few days)
- I smeared a ball of still melted tin by my finger (red skin, painfull, fixed in few days or so)

Less painfull incidents involve drops of resin (usually it come off with part of the skin, painfull) and other encounters with pre-hot things made with my solder.

I come into conclusion that anything bellow 80°C is safe. So your article, that says 5sec and 60°C (140°F) is safe - when more cautios, a 49°C (120°C) is used - then I tend to agree with this. But for 5 sec. I meant that 80°C is safe for quick touch, not for example to get a 85°C watter on your hand. Happend to me, the pain was extreme and the blisters and stuff healed for months... Terrible experience (hot watter from natural gas heater for house).

So these measurments:

Image
thermal sensations

...works for me, if the time is 5 sec. I need to get precise temperature measurment tool, that let me to glue by tape sensors to stuff, so I can measure the temperature. It is too high...!



xan_user -
or just touch a 120 watt light bulb for comparison.
That is not possible now, since EU "wisely" decided to ban these lightbulbs :) From past experience I would say that it f*cking hurts, when the lightbubl is in action for some time. Certainly not possible to handle w/o at least slight protection. Too hot...

Abula
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by Abula » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:18 pm

trodas wrote:Yet IMHO the card is overheating, so I need the cooler bad :(
I agree with other, i dont think your card is overheating. But if you really want another cooler, consider the Prolimatech MK-26 Multi-VGA Cooler, it will be an overkill for a GTX960.

trodas
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:30 am

Abula -
I agree with other, i dont think your card is overheating.
Okay 3PO, new strategy! Let the Wookie win :lol:
It is possible that my fingers thermal sensitivity IS misleading/wrong. I'm the first person to admit that this is hardly any proof of anything. I tried my ThermoTrace infrared thermometer model 15030 on the heatpipes and at best it show 45°C. But the catch is, that on round shiny objects it is usually misleading... and also 45°C cannot be unbearably painfull to hold, even for prolonged periods of time.

So I touched my CPU cooler and quess what - it is very cold, compared to that. Almost freezing... okay, just kidding. The difference is like night and day, so I continue to maintain that my card IS overheating and the sensor on it is off by at least 30°C. Witch is why the fans are mostly not even spinning...

...

Yes, I cannot prove it, but I sure as hell try touch the pipes on the Raijintek Morpheus, when I have the chance. Sadly, no delivery... (and no idea, if I can get to them, somehow)

Yes, the Prolimatech MK-26 was considered at first, but I believe that since there is no such huge gap, then the Raijintek Morpheus will be better choice (it is ordered already for longer time and we should be approaching the delivery, hopefully...). Both are overkill for GTX 960, I agree to that also. However when come to cooling, I *LOVE* overkills :)

Completed with two 750rpm Noiseblocker M12-S1 fans I get a quiet and cool (I hope now) gtx card :D (if there are available a bigger/better cooler, I would go for it for even more overkill, lol ...)

But ATM the card is overheating. The CPU temps are low (these Xeons are not much heating up, even with +0.21V for Vcore) and the temperature of the Noctua NH-C14S correspond (on touch) with that:
http://postimg.org/image/odsf1tl19/

But when there is a striking difference between the heatpipes on the CPU cooler and on the GPU cooler, while the reported temps are roughly comparable, then I say that something is a miss. IMHO the MSI GTX 960 GAMING 4G underrate the temp to get VERY quiet. Inaudibly quiet operation, to be honest. At max. 40% speed that I ever get, are the fans on it inaudible.

...and if you believe that the card is not overheating then, well, you then have the recommendation for quietiest gtx card that still pack some punch ever :) Granted! :wink:

baii
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by baii » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:09 am

trodas wrote:Abula -
I agree with other, i dont think your card is overheating.


But when there is a striking difference between the heatpipes on the CPU cooler and on the GPU cooler, while the reported temps are roughly comparable, then I say that something is a miss. IMHO the MSI GTX 960 GAMING 4G underrate the temp to get VERY quiet. Inaudibly quiet operation, to be honest. At max. 40% speed that I ever get, are the fans on it inaudible.

...and if you believe that the card is not overheating then, well, you then have the recommendation for quietiest gtx card that still pack some punch ever :) Granted! :wink:
The problem is 2 fold, first off CPU has much smaller die area then it have a IHS. You can read about delid story all over. Even after delid, the heat transfer is still worse than a GPU.

When I put a 120 aio rad on my 290x, it is a fantastic foot warmer, the rad(not liquid) is boiling hot say 40-50ish(guesstimate) by touch. Blowing this 290x rad air to the cpu rad(stacking, was a experiment to save space) will raise the cpu idle temp to 40-50C. that was when ambient ~20C.

I have 1 fan coming in tomorrow for my PSU, and exchanged for a board that have 5 controllable header I think(asus z97-a ) under speed fan. Gonna cut the ugly fan grills on my define S tonight. So sunday should be picture and test day, hopefully.
http://i.imgur.com/8c2GPvk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZOiNsxX.jpg

the mid plate, the morpheus and 2 gentle typhoon. Haven't yet drill the hole on mid plate~

and this is one of the most comprehensive review I had read yet, in german~, vs typical 2-3slot coolers, not vs mk26 though.

http://www.tomshardware.de/raijintek-mo ... 41525.html

baii
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by baii » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:47 am

hmm, the ultimate review by the Russian. Damn Google don't ever pull that up.
http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/68459_8/ ... okart.html

with 120mm fan, they are close/equivalent with a typical case fan, I think. Morpheus should get a little lead with a heatsink/rad fan.

trodas
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:46 am

I wonder, if MSI is serious about the impossibility of replacing the used cooler with 3rd party one on GTX 960. In short, I wonder, why replacing the cooler will seems to void my warranty, as the screw that is holding the heatsink over the GPU got the "Warranty void if removed" sticker by MSI on my GTX 960 Gaming 4G card...

Gotta ask MSI about this, it is like ... WTF?

Other than that, I run out of patience with waiting for Asus Z97-PRO and ordered the Asus Z97-PRO (WiFi ac) with have USB 3.1 and mainly they have it stock... That should do the trick.


...

At first, I did not understand the MSI support (rather quick!) response:
Dear Sir

Replacing the cooler will not void the warranty as long as the warranty label reads “MSI”.
Any mechanical damage because of this will void the warranty.
Should the card be defective, you will need to mount the original cooler again.

Thank you and Best regards,

MSI Europe BV
Mainboard and VGA Card Service
So I made a picture of the small round sticker on the screw:

Image

...that there is no mistake about what it is mentioned.

Meanwhile the support says:
Dear Pavel

The warranty void sticker should read MSI in the middle
If it reads ATI or NVIDIA, do not break it, warranty will be really void.

Thank you and Best regards,

MSI Europe BV
Mainboard and VGA Card Service
I would be inclined to believe that this means that the 3rd party cooler is a possibility, because the sticker does not read "ATI" (AMD?) or "NVIDIA" at all :) But to be extra sure, I asked for confirmation with the picture, as the sticker clearly say "Warranty void if removed" ...

And support confirmed that this is just a "tossed out sticker" and it will not really void the warranty:
Dear Pavel

Correct, so you can safely remove it and put another heatsink on it, just don’t damage the card in the process.

Thank you and Best regards,

MSI Europe BV
Mainboard and VGA Card Service
Ufff.

baii
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by baii » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:24 pm

Msi is known to be pretty be generous on warranty, that is just some kind of a warning thing, as least that is what I read,

I have the morpehus mounted with gentle typhoon, the performance is great,but the fan is making bad resonances and humming. I then put 2 140mm fan with 120mm hole , the ty147a, the performance seem to be less, but the bad quality sound went away.

So I was thinking, since I am gonna use 140mm fan, maybe I should try mk26... and curiosity wins...

Once in a while, (like once in a year 20+shipment) ups made a early delivery, so it happened that I am going to play with the mk26 over the weekend. I will see if I can make some number with silent in mind. Probably I will let the 140mm fans run at 600ish rpm and see how each fares.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by xan_user » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:35 pm

brand new exacto blade, dipped in rubbing alcohol, and a very steady hand? I've peeled many "void" stickers this way... YMMV

trodas
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:47 am

baii -
Msi is known to be pretty be generous on warranty, that is just some kind of a warning thing, as least that is what I read,
Yep, confirmed. But it get me a little scared at first to choose for not-exchangable cooling or warranty...
I have the morpehus mounted with gentle typhoon, the performance is great,but the fan is making bad resonances and humming. I then put 2 140mm fan with 120mm hole , the ty147a, the performance seem to be less, but the bad quality sound went away.
Interesting. Maybe the Gently Typhoon is not the quieties fan then? I have good experience with Noiseblocker fans. These 750rpm I cannot hear from 50cm, so = satisfactory :)

So I was thinking, since I am gonna use 140mm fan, maybe I should try mk26... and curiosity wins... Once in a while, (like once in a year 20+shipment) ups made a early delivery, so it happened that I am going to play with the mk26 over the weekend. I will see if I can make some number with silent in mind. Probably I will let the 140mm fans run at 600ish rpm and see how each fares.
Let us know, it might be very interesting. I did not need to cool that much, so I expecting two of the 750rpm Noiseblockers will do more that fine. I have the previous temps on FurMark recorded, so... we can then compare nicely.


xan_user -
brand new exacto blade, dipped in rubbing alcohol, and a very steady hand? I've peeled many "void" stickers this way... YMMV
Congratulations to you. I removed the warranty stickers also, but I usually use only my nails for fear of sharp metal blades, getting anywhere close to electronics... Maybe next time I try to be adventurous... as you are. Steady hand is IMHO absolute must... Congrats on having one :)

...

I get fed up waiting for the "plain" Asus Z97-Pro board, I ordred in Friday (5pm, BTW) on stock available Asus Z97-Pro (WiFi ac) version. It have the WiFi that I will not use at all, and cost a little bit more, but that was no issue. By Saturday 10am I was holding it in my hands, lol ;) Talk about speedy delivery.

I still lacking the rams, some fans and the rams. Yet I still managed to made a first burn-in test of the mainboard to see, if things works. And they do:

Image Image

Just the the CPU, M.12 SSD and cooling the board startup. It show inicialization and then hang up on the red led on rams (CPU led passed, VGA is not there, so no test... the board has PLENTY of indicators, almost like a xmass tree) and FE code. The manual says that FA to FF are "reserved for future AMI bios error messages." Well, whatever. It is pretty clear what is missing right now.

However I let it run for hours to see, on what temps are the important parts (CPU cooler, CPU VRM heatsinks, SB heatsink, SSD...) will be in iddle / BIOS waiting. I was wery surprised, witch was the hottest part of the "computer" after some hours. I wonder, if anyone can quess it... ;)

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:40 am

trodas wrote:I wonder, if anyone can quess it... ;)

Is it the M.2 SSD?

baii
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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by baii » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:10 pm

The gentle typhoon in open air is really good for airflow/noise but it is so hard to mount.

A little unfortunate is that the 290 died after mounting the mk26 into first test. Not blaming the cooler seem like just bag luck. Gonna wait for rma. A little observation on the cooler.

The mk26 is less generous on mofset and vrm heatsink although more expensive. The vrm heatsink is wimpy. The installation is less straight forward. The mounting screw is again, Wimpy, one striped at the end part, so it doesn't stop rotating, and another one is bended. Maybe it is not the screw but the fact the they are screwed a thin plate, where the Morpheus uses stand offs. Heatsink construction seem to be on par, with edge go to the mk26.

Another factor is the mk26 seem to put more torque on the card since it stick out upward(think of a lever), though that does give better clearance for possibly better performance.

Overall, the Morpheus is better solution, and cheaper.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by trodas » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:28 am

quest_for_silence -
Is it the M.2 SSD?
Yes, how did yu quessed it? This Samsung SM951 M.2 SSD is allegedly made by "10nm technology" and I was not expecting it get to be the hottest part on the board. A "bit" surprising for me.
You have some experience with M.2 SSDs like that? I would like to learn, because this is news for me... Not very good news anyway.

...

baii -
The gentle typhoon in open air is really good for airflow/noise but it is so hard to mount.
Mounting on the Raijintek Morpheus should be easy, as the wire clips just clamp the fan from outside, so, I see noproblemo there. Should I be worried...?
A little unfortunate is that the 290 died after mounting the mk26 into first test.
Very sad and unlucky :( Hopefully mine GTX 960 survive :( What happen? Cannot you contributed to this in any way, shape or form...?
The mk26 is less generous on mofset and vrm heatsink although more expensive. The vrm heatsink is wimpy.
Interesting. No VRM cooling is need on my MSI GTX 960 Gaming 4G, because the mosfets are in front of the card AND they are already covered with big own MSI heatsink. So I will have no use for the Raijintek Morpheus serious VRM cooler. Maybe for some old GFX card project...?
The installation is less straight forward. The mounting screw is again, Wimpy, one striped at the end part, so it doesn't stop rotating, and another one is bended. Maybe it is not the screw but the fact the they are screwed a thin plate, where the Morpheus uses stand offs. Heatsink construction seem to be on par, with edge go to the mk26.
Looks like my choice for Raijintek Morpheus was a good one. Bendt screw? WTF... Bad packaging or...?
Another factor is the mk26 seem to put more torque on the card since it stick out upward (think of a lever), though that does give better clearance for possibly better performance. Overall, the Morpheus is better solution, and cheaper.
Interesting. Well, I'm very affraid of the weight torque forces, so I was thinking like that:

1) the card choice / company is that, because MSI Gaming series provide nice metal support and backplate on the GTX 960, so it should not bendt
2) the problem with torque on the GPU I plan to fix by adding a screw on the end of the card, that will push the end of the cooler to the end of the card - quite simply I add a solid metal piece between two end screws on the MSI card that hold the backplate - using own longer screws. That give me possibility to have a M3 thread in the middle of the end of the card and thru the fins I just - by a long screw - fix the end of the Raijintek Morpheus to the end of the card, minimalizing the torque that happen once I put that card into case, upside down.
3) since the Raijintek Morpheus are longer that the card, it should not be a problem to pass another screw on the end of the hatsink, that will holt a hook or something, that can be used to support the weight of the card into my case...

We see, how this will turn out. ATM I waiting impatiently for the rams, so I could start some first estiminates on the noise the system will generate when loaded. At iddle it was acceptably noisy - in case it should be OK even for me. But the question is what happen under load...
Also I wanted to obtain some new fans, but they cannot have them soon enought for the tomorrow shipment, so... that testing probably happen only later :(

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by baii » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:10 pm

By hard to mount, I mean mounting them properly to avoid resonace and humming, whcih i never found the way to, so i gave up on them. Putting the cooler and the fan on is a breeze, and the manual actaully is pretty good. There are surplus thermal type etc.

Right after I slap it on, I ran furmark and it just went poof. I did furmark with the morpehus before and it is fine. I guess it just need to be warmed up first, or the card is dying anytime soon ne ways. Was little bit too excited (I mean it is a new toy) and haste on the test. The 290 is known to be cranky aswell.

I actaully have the morpehus on another 290 now (one that make a slightly worse coil whine), and it is fine for last few days.

If look doesn't matter much, you can always zip tie somewhere as a anchor.

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Re: Suggestions for mid power QUIET gaming PC

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:14 am

trodas wrote:A "bit" surprising for me.
You have some experience with M.2 SSDs like that? I would like to learn, because this is news for me... Not very good news anyway.
No, it's just that "naked" (mSATA at first, M.2 now) , unheatsinked SSDs are rather known to run hot and throttle.

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