SPCR inspired [quiet] build

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eperdos
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SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:43 am

Hi,

After reading the quiet build around Define R5 case, I decided to follow the principles and most recommended components and here I am, on the verge of building my first quiet pc. Lets see how it is, what you can advise further.

I will keep:

CPU - i5 4690 (non K)
MB - Asrock H97 Pro4
RAM - 2x4GB HyperX Beast @1600
HDD - 1x500GB @7200 & 1x1000GB @7200 Seagate
DVD-RW - Asus
Monitor - Dell P2414H FullHD

I will buy:

Case - Fractal Design Define R5 (non windowed) + 1 Fractal Design Dynamic GP-104 (for a total of 3 - 2x front intake & 1x rear exhaust)
PSU - Corsair RM750X
CPU Cooler - Scythe Kotetsu
SSD - Samsung 850EVO 500GB
GPU - between gtx1070 and rx480 (witchever will prove the best option around late july, considering money/performance/noise/heat ratio)

HDDs will be just for storage files, no installed programs on them. DVD-RW is a must, I burn 10-15 discs/week. PC is for intense gaming and Photoshop/Lightroom work.


Please provide insights about my chosen components. If some are totally ruining the silent build ideea, please advice. If there are other options, they should be ideally cheaper OR better for the silent build ideea.

If someone has some knowledge about my MB, please advise HOW to conect the case fans, CPU cooler and so on so I can make a perfect (as possible) heat/noise management. Also, Should I add more fans into the case?

I hope there will be lots of important advices and eventually after GPU will be decided and purchase will be made, I will come for more advices and results. Thanks!

CA_Steve
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Re: SPCR inspired quit build

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:47 am

Over all - looks good.

With either of those graphics cards, your stress load will be under 300W and heavy gaming load closer to 250W. So, you could easily drop down to the RM550X.

The GTX 1070 is more of a 1440p card than 1080p. We'll find out what the RX480 is in another 10 days or so. My poa guess is somewhere between GTX 970 and GTX 1070 performance. GTX 1060 is due ~ Sept. Don't know about the RX470.

You'll only need 3 case fans. Consider holding off buying the third Fractal fan until you hear the other two. If you like the performance, then get the third. Otherwise you can choose other options. Also, maybe Abula will check in - I don't recall if Asrock's 4-pin chassis fan headers will support the Fractal 3-pin voltage controlled fans or if you need to buy PWM (4-pin) fans.

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired quit build

Post by eperdos » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:08 am

My choice for 750w was in hope of underload and thus no PSU fan spinning = silence. Would a 550w behave the same? I know RM750x fan spin only after around 350w load.

about GPU, I`ll wait and see. Regarding silence: a stronger GPU (like 1070) with limited FPS(like underload the GPU) wouldn`t produce less heat and hence less noise? If yes, would this be a good point to choose 1070 over lets say 480? And no silence related: considering optimal performance for fullHD IS delivered, would be a better strategy to buy 480 for around half the price of 1070 and then in 2 year upgrade to a similar GPU (spending in total the very cost of a 1070) or would be better to star of with 1070 and keeping it around 4 years? Your opinion, what would you do?...

Could R5 fans disapoint? I know there are better fans than the dynamic gp-104, but really, after spending 130+$ for R5, I really hope I won`t have to change its fans. Plus SPCR silent build R5 version gets really good results. SHould I expect different outcome?

I will wait for Abula`s advice and also I will research about my Asrock fan conection. But CPU cooler would be manageable through bios or how? How do I set the cooler fan parameters? (Sorry for being a noob, I really am at my first own-build, do-it-your-self build)

ggumdol
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Re: SPCR inspired quit build

Post by ggumdol » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:43 am

I have been playing games with Asus GTX 970 Strix OC, which consumes up to 170W on full load, on SilverStone ST30SF (300W SFX PSU), without a single problem. Modern PSUs especially by the respectable brands such as Seasonic, SilverStone, Corsair, and Be Quiet, are all capable of even over-provisioning beyond their specified wattages. You should have no problem at all with any PSU by these brands rated no less than 350W.
eperdos wrote:My choice for 750w was in hope of underload and thus no PSU fan spinning = silence. Would a 550w behave the same? I know RM750x fan spin only after around 350w load.
Your observation on less heat consumption by limiting FPS of more capable GPUs is spot on, on the assumption that you will underclock GPU frequency. The power consumption versus GPU frequency graph is slightly super-linear, implying that it becomes more power-efficient if the GPU frequency is lower. Having said that, it will be perhaps more economical decision to go for less expensive options (e.g., GTX 1060 or RX480?) because GTX 1070 will be a *massive* overkill for 1080p gaming.

On the other hand, I dare say that Nvidia has probably picked all the low-hanging fruits regarding architectural aspects (from Kepler to Maxwell) and the change of process technology (from Maxwell to Pascal) and the GPU market is beginning to reach technological saturation very similar to that in CPU market nowadays. For example, you can play all triple-A games with i5-2400 Sandy Bridge CPU without any problem. In this light, I think it is a reasonable idea to spend a bit more for high-end Pascal GPUs such as GTX 1070 or GTX 1080.
eperdos wrote:a stronger GPU (like 1070) with limited FPS(like underload the GPU) wouldn`t produce less heat and hence less noise? If yes, would this be a good point to choose 1070 over lets say 480?
This is a bit tricky point. Cutting to the chase, Asrock motherboards usually support only 4-pin PWM fans on 4-pin fan headers (cf., Asus supports both 4-pin and 3-pin fans on 4-pin fan headers), and they seem to be very much intent on making 3-pin fans obsolete, which IIRC has been the case since Haswell. If you need the flexibility to tinker with both 3-pin and 4-pin fans, you should go for Asus motherboards. Like I mentioned several times in other posts, the only drawback of Asus motherboards is that they use very unusual temperature sensors for the BIOS fan speed control whereas Asrock motherboards use the proper maximum core temperature, which is identical to what you can find in well-known programs such as CoreTemp and SpeedFan.
eperdos wrote:I will wait for Abula`s advice and also I will research about my Asrock fan conection. But CPU cooler would be manageable through bios or how? How do I set the cooler fan parameters? (Sorry for being a noob, I really am at my first own-build, do-it-your-self build)

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:57 am

There is no way I will change my MB now. PLus I have no reason doing so, as Asrock MB works just well. I guess I`ll just plug the fans to case fan controler and set it on med or low.

About GPU underloading. I didn`t thought about underclocking it. I thought that by limiting the fps (through vsync or through various fps limiters) I would give the GPU a lesser job to do and so it will be less hot and so less noisy. I assume I was in error. Further, you say 1070 is a better futureproof card. But than you compare it with i5 2400 that is - how many generation older than current skylake? Can there be such a statement that this new generation of GPUs will handle games for a longer period of time than it was until now? I mean, my 560ti when new (5 years ago) handled next to highest settings (no AA) almost any game. Now, it can handle most games (with 2 or 3 exceptions) at medium. I would say, beyond actual damage the card has (its heating like hell - thermal paste reaplied) this 560ti did its fare share and I would say it will still do it 1-2 years if not physically die.

So you say that I should go for a 550w instead of 750w?

ggumdol
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by ggumdol » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:35 am

I'm sorry for my mistake. You don't have any reason whatsoever to change your existing, wonderfully working motherboard. Period.
eperdos wrote:There is no way I will change my MB now. PLus I have no reason doing so, as Asrock MB works just well.
The seemingly technologically savvy term "underclokcing" might sound a bit scary but, if you limit the power consumption of a GPU in the likes of MSI Afterburner (which I suppose is the most popular program in this regard), the GPU will automatically underclock as far as my experience with Asus GTX 970 Strix OC goes. Thus, you can very easily underclock a GPU simply by limiting total power consumption in such a program. My thought on "GPU technology saturation" is a very wild speculation. However, it is reported that there is a law of diminishing returns below 16 or 14nm process technology (which Skylake and Pascall has adopted) and the architectural transition from Kepler to Maxwell was huge and immense. Thus, GPU technology pace will surely slow down to a great extent. One more point if I may, AMD GPUs will *not* be as power-efficient as Nvidia ones in the foreseeable future. They simply have a lot to catch up in architectural aspects. Nvidia is the way to go if you are seeking utter silence.
eperdos wrote:About GPU underloading. I didn`t thought about underclocking it. I thought that by limiting the fps (through vsync or through various fps limiters) I would give the GPU a lesser job to do and so it will be less hot and so less noisy. I assume I was in error. Further, you say 1070 is a better futureproof card.
If you allow me to be very subjective, I would simply go for a reasonabley quiet Corsair or SilverStone PSUs rated no less than 350W, preferably Corsair RM or even Corsair SF series (because they are priced more competitively). Let me remind you that your planned rig is far from absolute silence because there are HDDs physically spinning platters. Thus it is rather a waste of money to invest much money into a PSU. I would also consider a bit cheaper CPU cooler, for example, Scythe Shurien Rev. B or a bit more capable coolers and spend the saved money into a better GPU.
eperdos wrote:So you say that I should go for a 550w instead of 750w?
Last edited by ggumdol on Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

CA_Steve
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:21 am

PSU sizing: In a hot box environment (>38C), the RM550x's fan doesn't turn on until ~275W load. In a normal environment (30C or less), the fan either doesn't come on or is very quiet.

GFX card: Yeah, you can use v-sync to keep the gfx card from running stupid high fps. I do it all the time. I'm also the guy that likes to buy the $200 card for two years rather than hoping the $400 card will last for 4 years. That said, when the reviews come out, we'll have a better feel for the price/performance mix.

R5 fans: They are some of the best that come with a case. That said, everyone's ears are different...and if limited to the case fan controller rather than the mobo, they might still be spinning too fast for you/audible. But, that's what iterative builds are all about - try it, change it, try again. :)

CPU cooler fan: yes - manage through bios.

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:32 am

ggumdol wrote:I'm sorry for my mistake. You don't have any reason whatsoever to change your existing, wonderfully working motherboard. Period.
I sense a little irony here but I take it, as I am a noob and irony can be usefull sometimes. What I meant with NO CHANGE OF MB was that, beeing a noob, I won`t go that far in playing with plenty options a MB might have. So, IF my current MB can serve for my intended silent build, I see no reason to go after a new MB. I do though understand there are also other MBs with plenty of options and higher quality.

IT market in my country is really volatile: the corsair RM750x goes for around 125$ while RM550x goes for 105. Corsair SF 400w (the only SF model I could find) is 95$. Isn`t RM550x better in this scenario? Also for coolers: kotetsu goes for 38$ while Shuriken goes for 30$. I know ratio difference is high, but we talk here about actual money to put into other better components. What will really 8$ achieve? But again, I do argue here not to dismiss your point. In fact, I just did this research and calculated the numbers. I simply want to know as good as possible before I buy. TNX!
CA_Steve wrote:R5 fans: They are some of the best that come with a case. That said, everyone's ears are different...and if limited to the case fan controller rather than the mobo, they might still be spinning too fast for you/audible. But, that's what iterative builds are all about - try it, change it, try again. :)
I do get this. But then, it is all back to my motherboard. Will I be able to get the max out this compination? Or should I also try to sell my Asrock and get another MB and what MB would this be?

ggumdol
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by ggumdol » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:02 am

No, no pun/irony intended. I also personally think it is slightly risky to change a motherboard. As an anecdote, I once broke a capacitor on an Asrock motherboard in the course of motherboard change, which was catastrophic. All computer components are best left untouched apart from dust cleaning.
eperdos wrote:
ggumdol wrote:I'm sorry for my mistake. You don't have any reason whatsoever to change your existing, wonderfully working motherboard. Period.
I sense a little irony here but I take it, as I am a noob and irony can be usefull sometimes. What I meant with NO CHANGE OF MB was that, beeing a noob, I won`t go that far in playing with plenty options a MB might have. So, IF my current MB can serve for my intended silent build, I see no reason to go after a new MB. I do though understand there are also other MBs with plenty of options and higher quality.
If you have troubles in decision making, just go for the cheapest Corsair RM PSU, all of which are rated no less than 350W. I can guarantee (?) that you will be satisfied. As for the chassis, I would suggest that you go for what you opted for, Define R5, because no chassis on the earth (to the best of my knowledge) provides 4-pin PWM fan. The exhaust fan is, as a matter of fact, not critical, and you can simply buy a couple of decent 4-pin PWM intake fans. I must add that silence computing is an unexpectedly expensive hobby.

Under the aforementioned circumstances, Kotetsu should be the best choice without any condition. There is no reason to buy smaller (hence priced higher for the same performance) components when you have no intention to build an mATX or ITX rig.

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:04 am

PSU becomes more clear: at least I won`t go for 750w. Looks like 550w will sufice. I`ll decide at the moment of purchase what model will have the better price (for now, RM550x is on sale, having equal price with CS model)

GPU is on hold. In fact, it is the sole reason I still wait. I will decide between 1070 and 480, but it must have 8 GB vram. If 480 sells for roughly half the price of 1070 and delivers around 40-60 fps at max settings, it could be the choice, given it complies with silence requirements.

I will stay with Kotetsu cooler.

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:55 am

Now, if anyone has some custom gtx 1070, can I know what model offers best option for quiet build? In Romania I can choose for gigabyte g1 gaming at 585$ or msi gaming x at 635$. Is the 50$ plus for the msi worth it? Should I wait for the Asus strix? Not on stock yet. Or zotac? Also msi armor just appeared at 610$. Thanks!

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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:27 am

Some early reviews are compiled here.

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:54 am

Thanks! I believe the thread will be updated as more review will be online...

CA_Steve
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:31 am

yep

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:55 am

So, gtx 1070 cards are mostly in stock now. Please advise wich to get considering best noise/temp ratio, I mostly rely on this forum, but I already have some infos from other places, most of witch are contradictory:

-Asus Strix - it was my first choice because of hexus review giving it a very low temp on load. Some forum users owning it said it has some weird noise and lab501.ro say it is rather noisier than FE.

-MSI gaming x - seems the best review card until now. But temps seem to go above 70 in ALL reviews.

-Gainward GS - the small brother of Gainward GLH who is also the almost twin of Palit Gamerock that gets some positive reviews about noise/temp ratio.

-Zotac Amp! Extreme - It is big and Jayz2Cents reviewd the gtx 1080 variant saying it is so cool it becomes pasive under load for times.

IN my country prices are rather similar for these 4 cards. I Excluded G1 from Gigabyte, as most people say it has coil whine and not as good as previous gen G1.

Please advice for my build what is the best card, apropriate for custum fan profiles to achieve a similar quiet build to those from silentpcreview site. TNX!

lodestar
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by lodestar » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:07 pm

Of that list, the Zotac Amp Extreme might well be the best choice because of its three 90mm fan cooler. You do need a case that can accept both the length and width of it. Zotac supply their FireStorm software which should enable you a degree of control over the fan speeds including custom profiles. And as for reviews there does not seem to be a great deal of information out there, at least currently. I did find someone claiming an idle temperature of 31C and 52C under load but in the absence of information about ambient temperature, case airflow and what game it was this may not mean very much.

ggumdol
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by ggumdol » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:27 pm

Contrary to our expectations, as Lodestar said, there does not seem to be sufficient amount of information regarding their performances, which somehow reflects the fact that most people are not that sensitive to noise.

As I mentioned in other posts "multiple" times, the best cards at the moment in terms of cooling/thermal/noise performances (yes, they are all intertwined because you can increase fan speed to decrease the temperature) are the following:

1. Palit GTX 1070 Super Jetstream (or Gamerock Premium) / Gainward GTX 1070 Pheonix Golden Sample (or Goes Like Hell)
2. Zotac GTX 1070 AMP Extreme
3. MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X/Z

There are actually various subtle differences among the three of them and it's very challenging to explain all the details. If you compare them purely based on cooling/thermal performances, Palit/Gainward and Zotac cards slightly outperform MSI cards.

If you research these cards very astutely, you can realize that Zotac and MSI cards have separate "tiny" heatsinks covering VRM circuits whereas the main heatsinks of Palit/Gainward cards cover VRM circuits properly. Thus it can be deduced that the temperature of VRM circuits in Zotac cards may reach probably around or even higher than 80 (according to statistics in the past), which is still within the range of safety but high enough to make users feel less comfortable. The VRM temperature of Palit/Gainward cards should stay below 70 Celsius. As a non-negligible side effect of separate heatinks on VRM circuits, Zotac cards appear to achieve slightly lower GPU temperature than Palit/Gainward cards because VRM circuits are usually THE hottests parts in modern graphics cards (You can try to touch these parts in your current graphics card to feel how hot they are).

Having said that, I recommend Palit/Gainward and Zotac in equal measure because VRM temperatures in Zotac cards look low enough (they can endure up to 100-110 Celsius). MSI cards are clearly worse than these cards but might be appealing in aesthetical terms, which again depends on whether your chassis has a transparent side panel or not.

eperdos wrote:-MSI gaming x - seems the best review card until now. But temps seem to go above 70 in ALL reviews.

-Gainward GS - the small brother of Gainward GLH who is also the almost twin of Palit Gamerock that gets some positive reviews about noise/temp ratio.

-Zotac Amp! Extreme - It is big and Jayz2Cents reviewd the gtx 1080 variant saying it is so cool it becomes pasive under load for times.

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:57 pm

@ggumdol : excelent explanation. Thank you! your words slightly lean me towards the gainward GS model instead of the MSI gaming x. Can I quote you on another forum (in romanian) where is an intense debate about the most silent card gtx 1070?

Case would be Define R5.

ggumdol
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by ggumdol » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:10 pm

Sure thing.
eperdos wrote:Can I quote you on another forum (in romanian) where is an intense debate about the most silent card gtx 1070?

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:16 am

A little update:

would msi gtx 1070 hawk would be better suited for a silent computer than any other variant? it is around 80$ more than gaming x, golden sample or amp extreme. Is it worth it?

eperdos
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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by eperdos » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:14 am

I made my decision and already ordered:

Gainward gtx1070 Golden Sample
Fractal Design Define R5
Corsair RM750X(it was on sale at the same price as 550X, so...)
Scythe Kotetsu
Samsung 850EVO 500GB

It is posible to add 2x4gb of ram and one more case fan. Fractal Design Dynamic GP-14 OR Noctua NF-P14s redux-1200??? Or another one?

Thank you all for help!

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Re: SPCR inspired [quiet] build

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:22 am

eperdos wrote:(it was on sale at the same price as 550X, so...)
...so you lose some idle and low load efficiency. :wink:

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