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 Post subject: First build in years
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:33 am 
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Posts: 15
Hey everyone, I wanted some feedback on the build I am looking at doing. I mostly got started on this from playing some of the new Masters of Orion on my work pc.
I plan on running OpenSuse and Steam with the occasional video or photo editing. I can probably do most of the photo editing I care about on my phone anyhow.
The only thing I'm a bit curious about is the Graphics card. Back when I built my last machine AMD was ATI, and it was basically a coin toss between the two.
I mostly want a quiet PC if I am being honest and not necessarily silent as I prefer a relatively quiet machine for audio etc...

Please give me any feedback. Thanks!

CPU

AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor

CPU Cooler

Scythe - SCNJ-4000 84.6 CFM CPU Cooler

Thermal Compound

Arctic Silver - 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste

Motherboard

ASRock - X370 KILLER SLI/ac ATX AM4 Motherboard

Memory

Kingston - FURY 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory

Storage

Samsung - 850 EVO 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive

Video Card

Sapphire - Radeon RX 560 2GB PULSE Video Card

Case

Fractal Design - Define C ATX Mid Tower Case (Already Bought)

Power Supply

SeaSonic - 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply

Case Fan

Scythe - Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan

Scythe - Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan

Scythe - Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 6708
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Welcome to SPCR.

1) Could you provide your country so we can provide some better component alternatives that are available?
2) What's your monitor resolution? That and your apps will determine how much gfx card you'll need.
3) What's your budget?

Here's some general feedback:
- The Seasonic bronze is a long in the tooth design. There are better gold units at a reasonable price.
- Arctic Silver....consider MX4 instead.
- AMD vs Nvidia gfx: generally, AMD can provide similar fps at a lower price but at the cost of higher power use - which translates to heat / higher fan rpms.
- If you really want to go, M2 SSD, go for the newer 960 Evo as it has a copper foil over the top for some heat transfer, is faster and is only $20 more.
- you may or may not need new/additional case fans. Try the build with stock and then go from there.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:32 am
Posts: 15
CA_Steve wrote:
Welcome to SPCR.

1) Could you provide your country so we can provide some better component alternatives that are available?
2) What's your monitor resolution? That and your apps will determine how much gfx card you'll need.
3) What's your budget?

Here's some general feedback:
- The Seasonic bronze is a long in the tooth design. There are better gold units at a reasonable price.
- Arctic Silver....consider MX4 instead.
- AMD vs Nvidia gfx: generally, AMD can provide similar fps at a lower price but at the cost of higher power use - which translates to heat / higher fan rpms.
- If you really want to go, M2 SSD, go for the newer 960 Evo as it has a copper foil over the top for some heat transfer, is faster and is only $20 more.
- you may or may not need new/additional case fans. Try the build with stock and then go from there.


I'm in the USA.
Monitor is a 1080p that's about 6 years old. I will be honest on the apps. I am not really 100% sure as I haven't had a good pc at home in a while. I will probably use steam with a wide variety of games. GTA 5/Masters of Orion/Civ 6. Maybe I'll do some photo editing using gimp.
Budget. After the case ~1200 tops, but 800 ish is preferred.
Thanks for the tips. Any suggestions on the Gold units? Seasonic? Someone else?
I'll look at the MX4. I honestly never knew there was a difference. I just remember that brand.
AMD is just from my memory as a kid.
Do I need a m2 SSD? Should I just get a 3.5"? I just figured it was the best way to go.
I'll stick to the stock fans then.


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 6708
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
haibane wrote:
Monitor is a 1080p that's about 6 years old. I will be honest on the apps. I am not really 100% sure as I haven't had a good pc at home in a while. I will probably use steam with a wide variety of games. GTA 5/Masters of Orion/Civ 6. Maybe I'll do some photo editing using gimp.
Budget. After the case ~1200 tops, but 800 ish is preferred.
Thanks for the tips. Any suggestions on the Gold units? Seasonic? Someone else?
I'll look at the MX4. I honestly never knew there was a difference. I just remember that brand.
AMD is just from my memory as a kid.
Do I need a m2 SSD? Should I just get a 3.5"? I just figured it was the best way to go.
I'll stick to the stock fans then.


Here's a suggested build incorporating your original and feedback...I have not been tracking AM4 motherboards, so can't make sweeping conclusions on which is the best to buy...however :) if you don't need on-mobo wifi, consider the Fatality x370 Gaming K4 as it has better analog audio path (only usefull if you use the analog side of audio) as well as providing USB 3.1 Gen 2 rather than USB 3 over the single Type C connector. One last Asrock specific thing...some of the chassis fan headers support only 4-pin PWM fans, some support 3-pin voltage controlled fans. I think this particular board has only one header that supports 3-pin fans...so, you may need a splitter cable to support your Fractal fans.

1)AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor
2)Scythe - SCNJ-4000 84.6 CFM CPU Cooler - ok be sure it's a newer stock item with AM4 support.
Arctic MX-4
3)ASRock - X370 KILLER SLI/ac ATX AM4 Motherboard or Fatality X370 Gaming K4
4)Kingston - FURY 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ok...man, DRAM prices have jumped up.
5)Samsung - 850 EVO 500GB 2.5" $175 (or 960 EVO M.2-2280 $234). If you were doing big app work, like video editing, or were running a top end video card, I'd push for the 960 EVO. Otherwise, the 2.5" 850 EVO is fine. However, I recommend spending a little more and getting the 500GB. You'll be happy for the space.
6)gfx card - I think the RX 560 is pretty underpowered for 1080p gaming...you probably want to look at the GTX 1050 Ti. There's some bizarre supply chain limitations on some video cards as the stupid bitcoin/etherium miners are sucking up all the cards and driving up prices. I threw a placeholder on the MSI Gaming version...
7) Newegg is running a sale on the Corsair RMx 650...more power than you need, but this is an awesome PSU.
Total - $885 plus case and OS.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:32 am
Posts: 15
CA_Steve wrote:
haibane wrote:
Monitor is a 1080p that's about 6 years old. I will be honest on the apps. I am not really 100% sure as I haven't had a good pc at home in a while. I will probably use steam with a wide variety of games. GTA 5/Masters of Orion/Civ 6. Maybe I'll do some photo editing using gimp.
Budget. After the case ~1200 tops, but 800 ish is preferred.
Thanks for the tips. Any suggestions on the Gold units? Seasonic? Someone else?
I'll look at the MX4. I honestly never knew there was a difference. I just remember that brand.
AMD is just from my memory as a kid.
Do I need a m2 SSD? Should I just get a 3.5"? I just figured it was the best way to go.
I'll stick to the stock fans then.


Here's a suggested build incorporating your original and feedback...I have not been tracking AM4 motherboards, so can't make sweeping conclusions on which is the best to buy...however :) if you don't need on-mobo wifi, consider the Fatality x370 Gaming K4 as it has better analog audio path (only usefull if you use the analog side of audio) as well as providing USB 3.1 Gen 2 rather than USB 3 over the single Type C connector. One last Asrock specific thing...some of the chassis fan headers support only 4-pin PWM fans, some support 3-pin voltage controlled fans. I think this particular board has only one header that supports 3-pin fans...so, you may need a splitter cable to support your Fractal fans.

1)AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor
2)Scythe - SCNJ-4000 84.6 CFM CPU Cooler - ok be sure it's a newer stock item with AM4 support.
Arctic MX-4
3)ASRock - X370 KILLER SLI/ac ATX AM4 Motherboard or Fatality X370 Gaming K4
4)Kingston - FURY 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ok...man, DRAM prices have jumped up.
5)Samsung - 850 EVO 500GB 2.5" $175 (or 960 EVO M.2-2280 $234). If you were doing big app work, like video editing, or were running a top end video card, I'd push for the 960 EVO. Otherwise, the 2.5" 850 EVO is fine. However, I recommend spending a little more and getting the 500GB. You'll be happy for the space.
6)gfx card - I think the RX 560 is pretty underpowered for 1080p gaming...you probably want to look at the GTX 1050 Ti. There's some bizarre supply chain limitations on some video cards as the stupid bitcoin/etherium miners are sucking up all the cards and driving up prices. I threw a placeholder on the MSI Gaming version...
7) Newegg is running a sale on the Corsair RMx 650...more power than you need, but this is an awesome PSU.
Total - $885 plus case and OS.

Steve,
Thanks for the information again. The only concern I have is the motherboard. I originally was looking at the SLI/ac because I could use the wifi capability. As for the storage, I have a 1TB and 500GB 7200RPM sitting around that I was planning on implementing. Both are 2.5" HDDs. Not sure if that changes the recommendation on the SSD.
Is it better to get an external wifi card than a built in one? I don't really like the idea of running cat 6 across my room.


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 6708
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
If I had an ethernet port that was just across the room, I would opt to run CAT 5e across the room any day before reverting to wifi. One less thing to worry about and wired lan seldom fails...as opposed to wifi connections/speeds/etc. As for mobo vs non-mobo wifi....I don't have a good answer other than the Intel solution provided is limited to 433Mbps. Not a big deal unless you are doing big file transfers/have multiple people competing for the same wlan BW.

Storage: 7200rpm 2.5" drives....are quieter than their 3.5" counterparts...but may be able to hear them during non-gaming sessions. These days, I use rotating drives solely for backup. As far as 250GB vs 500GB SSD...best plan is to look at your current file space and see if there is still room for more stuff with the smaller drive. I originally went with a 256GB with the plan of swapping games back and forth from SSD to HDD as my interest waxed and waned. Then, I realized that having my music collection on the HDD was annoying (spin up/spin down for ea song). So, I got another 256GB and put my music and my current Steam library on it. Between the OS/app drive and the music/game drive I've filled 345GB. <shrugs> YMMV.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:32 am
Posts: 15
Okay. Thanks for the pointers. By the way it looks like the Corsair deal ended last night. Is there anything else you could suggest or should I just hold out till there is a sale again? I almost bought it last night cause it looked like a good deal. Should have...


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 6708
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
If you click on the pcpartpicker link on my thread above (the total cost link) and then click on the PSU and scroll down, you'll see a pricing history and get a feel for what's going on. You can also set up a price alert....that said, I'd recommend the Corsair RM550x because it's got more than enough power for your needs and is having a bit of a sale on Newegg. There's also the be quiet! Straight Power 10 500CM via Amazon. It has an always on fan - but inaudibly low rpm for your use range.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:32 am
Posts: 15
Steve,
The Asrock Taichi has a really good deal running at newegg. Should I go ahead and get it for the 170?


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Only if it has features you want or need.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:58 am 
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Posts: 15
Any CPU fan alternatives that support the AM4 Socket? It seems the Ninja doesn't have a standard part that does support it yet.


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Here's what Scythe EU published in March regarding existing compatibility and upgrade kits. You could try pinging Scythe North America and see what they say. Or,

Tom's Hardware mentions the Mugen 5 Rev B supports AM4 (June review).

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Posts: 3012
Location: Guatemala
Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power - I would say atm is one of the best coolers in the market as long as you can clear its height (the define C should be able to), has been tested a lot vrs twin tower coolers and its very competitive, its fan, TY147A is a very nice fan for PWM that can be run from 30% (300rpms) to 100% (1300rpms), its very quiet as long as you dont let it go over 1k rpms.

If you check the recent reviews on amazon you will find comments about ryzen,
Quote:
I purchased this to replace the stock cooler for my Ryzen 1700. It is a great purchase.

Quote:
I have an idle CPU temp of 26C on my ryzen 1700 OC 3.9Ghz, with the die temp of 36c. Almost never rise above 65c when doing stress test, and die temp barely rise above 70C. Plus I got to install all 4 sticks of my 32 gig ram kit.

Quote:
I bought this for a new AMD Ryzen 1800+ build on a new Gigabyte AB350 Gaming 3 motherboard. I do not plan to overclock the CPU.

- Fits AM4 Ryzen, and most older AMD sockets too. The mount kit is the same as their universal kit.

- The Ryzen 1800+ idles at 43C. When using the Gigabyte provided CPU-Z application to apply a stress test, all (16) cores jump to 3.7 GHz and the temp peaks at 69C after about 10 minutes. I used the AMD Ryzen Master program to log the speed and temps. The fan was running at 1050 the whole time and was essentially silent.


Btw, AsRock bios fan control is pretty good, it should be able to control the TY147A very easily with the graphs you can preset, no need for software.

_________________
GameMiv3 >> AsRock H170 Pro4 | Intel Core i7-6700K | Prolimatech Genesis + 2x Thermalright TY-147A | Kingston HyperX FURY 64GB DDR4 2133 | MSI GTX1080 Gaming X | Acer Predator XB321HK 4K IPS Gsync | Samsung 850pro 1TB | WD RED 3TB | Silverstone FT05 + 2x Silverstone AP182 | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | SimMi


Last edited by Abula on Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:43 am 
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Posts: 15
Abula wrote:
Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power - I would say atm is one of the best coolers in the market as long as you can clear its height (the define C should be able to), has been tested a lot vrs twin tower coolers and its very competitive, its fan, TY147A is a very nice fan for PWM that can be run from 30% (300rpms) to 100% (1300rpms), its very quiet as long as you dont let it go over 1k rpms.

If you check the recent reviews on amazon you will find comments about ryzen,
Quote:
I purchased this to replace the stock cooler for my Ryzen 1700. It is a great purchase.

Quote:
I have an idle CPU temp of 26C on my ryzen 1700 OC 3.9Ghz, with the die temp of 36c. Almost never rise above 65c when doing stress test, and die temp barely rise above 70C. Plus I got to install all 4 sticks of my 32 gig ram kit.

Quote:
I bought this for a new AMD Ryzen 1800+ build on a new Gigabyte AB350 Gaming 3 motherboard. I do not plan to overclock the CPU.

- Fits AM4 Ryzen, and most older AMD sockets too. The mount kit is the same as their universal kit.

- The Ryzen 1800+ idles at 43C. When using the Gigabyte provided CPU-Z application to apply a stress test, all (16) cores jump to 3.7 GHz and the temp peaks at 69C after about 10 minutes. I used the AMD Ryzen Master program to log the speed and temps. The fan was running at 1050 the whole time and was essentially silent.


Btw, AsRock bios fan control is pretty good, it should be able to control the TY143A very easily with the graphs you can preset, no need for software.


Thanks for the information. Do you know if there is a good suggested preset for the BIOS fan settings or any guides out there?


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 3012
Location: Guatemala
haibane wrote:
Thanks for the information. Do you know if there is a good suggested preset for the BIOS fan settings or any guides out there?
Well each setup is different, its best for you to play around with graphs until you leave it the way you like it.

The way i do it, i prefer to have the fans a little higher than their base for startup, for example the TY147A on the bios can be set 30% to net you 300rpms, but i set it around 45% to start that its around 500rpms, this extra rpms allow the cpu not ramp up the fans with the usual loads of webrowsing, watching a video, etc, that usually i have it set around 50C where the fans go up, i have the next breakpoint of the graph around 50C/45% then 60C/60% then 70C/80% and after this there is it goes into a 100% PWM.

But i would suggest you to play around with the graphs on the bios, its fairly easy, i once set it up dont move it for years, what i do is place something that i like and then go inside windows and test it, browse the web, watch youtube, check fb, etc, usually all day things, and pay attention to the fans, see if it remains inaudible, if you hear a breathing sound its that your lowest temp point is too small, intel cpus spike very easily, so you want to be outside the spike zone sort of speak, reboot on the bios until you find your prefered base, for me was 45% for 50C. Now you need to chose the ramping, i would suggest to go 60/60 70/70 80/80 etc, and test it, go into your day to day load things, for example if you render do some work, if you play go play some, and measure the temps, see how that settings went also keep your ears on the case, see what happens, continue rebooting into the bios to tweak the graph to your liking. The same can be done with the case fans (1 or 2) or more if you have PWM fans.

_________________
GameMiv3 >> AsRock H170 Pro4 | Intel Core i7-6700K | Prolimatech Genesis + 2x Thermalright TY-147A | Kingston HyperX FURY 64GB DDR4 2133 | MSI GTX1080 Gaming X | Acer Predator XB321HK 4K IPS Gsync | Samsung 850pro 1TB | WD RED 3TB | Silverstone FT05 + 2x Silverstone AP182 | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | SimMi


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 Post subject: Re: First build in years
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 3012
Location: Guatemala
Upon crosschecking the fractal design website for the define C,
Quote:
CPU coolers up to 170mm in height
According to thermalright website about the TRUE Spirit 140 Power
Quote:
Cooler with total heights of 171mm, beware of case height.
So it will be very tight, probably the side case would touch or could be there are more tolerance, im just bring this up as i also check other coolers for a Ryzen build, seems with thermalright they are using the multi hole mount that already come with them (dont take my word for it), but i also check other coolers with their respective amazon reviews,

Le Grand Macho with fan TY-147B 159mm height
Quote:
This cooler is currently doing duty on an overclocked AMD Ryzen 7-1700. At 3.8 ghz, the CPU rarely hits 65c, and has so far never reached 72c (even under a Prime95 SmallFFT torture test).

Macho Rev. B 162mm height
Quote:
I needed a cooler for my new AM4 system and this one was one of the few available at launch that already had AM4 mounting holes available.
Installing was a little tricky, but once I got it attached to my motherboard everything went smoothly. Love the little touches they added in the package, like the cut glove and the long stemmed screwdriver.


As a final comment, another SPCR forum user installed a Ninja4 on Ryzen build, but im not sure how or if it come with the brackets, 394-1 v3: Overclocked Ryzen 8-core, cool & quiet

_________________
GameMiv3 >> AsRock H170 Pro4 | Intel Core i7-6700K | Prolimatech Genesis + 2x Thermalright TY-147A | Kingston HyperX FURY 64GB DDR4 2133 | MSI GTX1080 Gaming X | Acer Predator XB321HK 4K IPS Gsync | Samsung 850pro 1TB | WD RED 3TB | Silverstone FT05 + 2x Silverstone AP182 | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | SimMi


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