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 Post subject: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:53 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Norway
Hello SPCR,

Thank you for a great forum!

I am intrigued by the idea of trying to build my own silent PC. I am hoping for some advice on picking parts to match my needs and wants. If I decide to go ahead with a build, I will look at it as an opportunity to learn something new. My experience PC tinkering extends to changing a motherboard on a PC some 20 years ago and putting in some extra ram from time to time.

My current system is an old gaming laptop from Asus.
System Model G73Sw
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2630QM CPU @ 2.00GHz, 2001 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
GTX 460M

I find my need for a haulable gaming system is no longer prevalent, so I am looking into getting a desktop PC. Before I rediscovered SPCR, I was considering getting a Corsair One Pro. http://www.corsair.com/en-us/landing/one

Supposedly they offer silent PC gaming.

Two things happened lately that prompted me to look into upgrading my PC. A co-worker recommended a game that I discovered I probably could not play. (Divinity: Original Sin II) and I thought my computer got really bogged down all my open tabs in Firefox. I frequently have more than 20 tabs open. Changing to Chrome solved some of this. Nevertheless, I got the "get a new PC bug". My wife wants a new PC too, and I know I'll have PC envy if she gets one.

As far as games go, I play Diablo III LoD, I would like to be able to play Divinity: Original Sin II. I am not into first-person shooter games, but I do like Diablo style games and would like to have a sense of freedom in my game selection without feeling limited by my setup. I run Plex media server on my PC, and I need to be able to stream TV-shows and movies to my TV. I expect to have a 4K TV down the line, so my computer should be able to handle that.

I guess my budget is somewhere between $2000 and $2500 since that would be my alternative cost with the Corsair OnePro.

Size wise I was looking a something mid-sized. The space under my desk is somewhat limited hight wise. I have about 60 cm high (1.96 feet). I will, however, consider putting it on the side of the desk or on top of the desk if I have to.

I bought my current PC in 2011, so it has lasted me some 6.5 years. I'd like for my next PC to last me about as long. I don't want to do a whole lot of upgrades along the way but might change out the graphics cards if a new version of Diablo demands that in the next 6 years.

I don't need an optical drive. I hate PC-fan noise and I want something that's not noisy on under normal load. I don't game with a headset so low noise under load is nice too.

I've had a look around and I have some ideas for parts and wondered if you had any feedback.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Case: SilverStone FT05/Corsair 400Q/Corsair 600Q
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($288.58 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($73.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: GeIL - SUPER LUCE 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($195.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($168.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($168.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB AMP! Extreme Video Card ($639.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.59 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($89.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1704.02
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-12-07 16:49 EST-0500

Network card:?
Monitor:? The monitor would be a separate budget.

About the case. I've read some reviews that make me think the SilverStone Fortress FT05 might not be an easy case to do as a first build. Makes me wonder if I can pull it off. It also won't fit the graphics card I picked out. Not that I am sure that card is the best card for my needs. I was considering getting a GTX 1070 card, but I noticed the price is about the same as a GTX 1080 card.

What do you guys think?

Oh. I am located in Norway. I'll buy the case here. As I am going to the US for the holidays, I mean to try to pick up the rest of the parts there. Hopefully, it will all fit in my suitcase.

Thank you for reading my post.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Welcome to SPCR.

GPU: Blizzard games don't run heavy on resources..I'd expect Divinity to be the tougher of the two. I came across this GPU benchmark for it. Not sure what your desktop monitor resolution is..or whether you plan to use the future 4k TV for it. You can see the difference between 1080p and 2160p play. For 1080p you can get a $150 card like the GTX 1050 Ti. For the other, the $600+ card. :) It's up to you whether or not you want to spend the additional $450 now for a TV that you don't have, yet. Or, if you want to play at 4k resolution when you do.... When you finalize on a class of card, you might check out the review compilation threads for low noise cards.

CPU: Ryzen 7 1700 will work. Somewhat overkill for your games. An alternative is the Intel i5 8400. Costs less, tends to do better than the 1700 in gaming tests.

mobo: good customer feedback...If you plan to use the motherboard's analog audio output, you might look for a board with the newer ALC1220 codec. Also I prefer Intel NIC over Realtek. Any current gen mobo/cpu combination can handle your PLEX needs.

case: the FT05 can be a great case for high workload/high power tasks. For a one card gaming PC, there are better solutions (quieter at idle, etc).

CPU cooler: the stock AMD cooler is ok. But, if you are willing to spend $2k+ for a PC, why not get a better cooler?

SSDs: ok.

PSU: ok.

RAM: after you finalize the mobo, look at the mfgr's qualified vendor list for RAM. AMD is a little pickier than Intel.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:01 am 
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Location: Norway
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Steve.

I see that the CPU cooler did not make it into the list I copied over from System Builder. I had this in mind: Scythe - Mugen 5 Rev. B 51.2 CFM CPU Cooler.

From reading your post, I understand now that I better make up my mind about the monitor. It seems to impact the decision on the graphics card. The idea with the TV was never to play games on it. Currently, I just have an old monitor made for office work. Running at 1900x1200. I would like to upgrade, maybe to something that has 120hz. My wife has a 1900x1080. Great for gaming, but I find I like the extra space offered from the extra height on 1900x1200 doing office work and surfing the web. I'll look into what options I have for a higher resolution monitor.

Regarding the processor. My understanding is that the extra cores and threads on the Ryzen help when running multiple applications. My experience is that I run a lot of programs no matter what. Looking at my processes running now, there is Norton, the printer/scanner software, SugarSync, VPN, Media server, Logitec gaming framework and some 20 odd browsers. What is considered running a lot of multiple applications? Of course, my CPU use now is just 5% and memory is at 50%, but I notice that these things change as I load more tabs, Youtube videos etc.

Quote:
Case: the FT05 can be a great case for high workload/high power tasks. For a one card gaming PC, there are better solutions (quieter at idle, etc)


About the case. I am very happy you commented on that. I was under the impression that it would be the quietest case for my use. What other cases did you have in mind that are quieter at idle, etc? I've noticed that it's not just about how quiet a fan is, it's also important how it sounds. I would take a pleasant louder noise over unpleasant lower noise every day of the week and twice on Sunday. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:01 am 
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CPU: The best thing you can do is to run Windows Task Manager in the background and, run your typical app load, and then see what's the bottleneck. My guess is it's RAM (with your 20 tabs). Note that moving from a notebook to a desktop you'll also be going from a 2GHz CPU to one that's in the 3.Ghz+ range. Plus, all the IPC (instructions per clock) improvements since Sandy Bridge.

Case: The FT05 is a fine case. Note that you have to pay attention to the mobo, CPu, and gfx card heat pipe orientation due to the rotated motherboard. Check out the FT02's Q & A section for details. The large bottom fans can push a lot of air quietly. However, the 500rpm min speed leads to ~19dBA in this SPCR test. You can replace the two fans with slower speed ones (Abula has a post somewhere on this) for quieter idle.

Alternatives:
- Silverstone's KL07.
- Fractal Design Define series. The R5 did well with a gaming build. Since then, they've released the S (R5 minus ODD and another front fan mount) and the newer C and Mini C (also w/o ODD).

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:34 am 
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Location: Guatemala
Im very impressed with AMD atm, specially Ryzen 1700 seems like a great CPU for the money, that said its benefits are for people that do a lot of heavy things, not just multi tasking, but editing or streaming while gaming, etc. Today its probably the best CPU with streaming and transcoding purposed for the money, but day to day basis things, all quads can do it fine, and for gaming purely imo Intel has the lead still with its higher clocks, but not as much as before, i still think 1700 is a gem by todays standards. I also did a build on it recently, but decided to go all the way with Threadripper 1950x, that will be finished around january, but its more a streaming/capture/editing headless workstation.

FT05 is a very limited space case, its sort of compact but you do suffer from the space inside, specially long GPU, i cant place whatever GPU i please, up to 12.3" (312mm) long, crosscheck you can put the zotac. Second thing that can keep in mid is that while you can do a quiet build on it, its not ideal, its more an airflow case, personally im about to move out of it into another Corsair Air 740. The AP180 fans are very loud at 12v, you need to drop them to low on the switch and then undervolt them with a motherboard header, usually value mobos on asrock only have 2 headers that can do voltage control, asrock calls this headers autodetect, usually are the CPU_FAN and CHA_FAN1, the other fans like CHA_FAN2 in my mobo is only PWM (in there you should put your CPU Heatsink Fan), if you plan to use a exhaust fan, i would buy them same as on your mugen5 and place a Y PWM splitter, Scythe GlideStream 120mm PWM SC Case Fan SY1225HB12MS-RKP.

One thing that its making me move away from FT05 is that i need more airflow, sounds dumb because it is probably the best airflow case, but not the quietest, in very light games like Diablo3 (also fan my friend) you can run them at 500rpms and be fine, the GTX1080 will hardly get loaded at all, but i recently started going into PUGB and Fortnite, and while they are not the most demanding games around, they easily push my gtx1080ti to 85C on the same fan presets that i use on diablo3 or my dialy standard browse fan settings, for this games to be below 80C i need to bump the AP181 to around 900rpms where its not loud but very audible, above 900rpms it helps a ton cooling the card but becomes way too loud. But at the same time, take into acount im driving all my games in 4k so its really punishing the GPU, at 1080p or even 1440p i dont think you will need as much cooling as i do, so my personal guess is you will be fine with low presets, now if you go into a 2560x1440 144hz monitor starts getting demanding, not as 4k60, but gets close, so keep in mind this. Personally i find the Corsair Air 740 a better overall, specially the cable management the FT05 is very bad, but ends up much more expensive populating all the fan slots and at the end i dont think you will encounter my issues, im just trying to give you my perspective.

I dont want to discourage you from the FT05, its a great case, and i think you can make it work fine for your use, but i also agree with steve that there are other options that might end up better, Fractal has some good cases so does Corsair. If you want an airflow case more than a closed style front, also check Silverstone RL06 and Fractal Design Meshify C, the silverstone is atm one of the best, but also the fans are not that great imo, the meshify C also needs to populate the fan slots to become good cooling case, so both will requiere extra $$$. Or the KL07 that its similar but with the front closed, or even the Define C.

Remember AsRock shines on the bios fan control, i own 3 asrock mobos atm all really good on setting up my fans, but you do need to understand how the mobo was design on this and its limitations. I personally dislike the AsRock APP, and the software fan control imo is meh, much worst than Asus FanXpert, but on pure bios is really good, imo the best. But remember you do need to invest a some time to set up the bios fan control, usually i take about 2 hours, booting with what i think are good settings and then stressing out or leaving it at idle or doing light stuff to see how my setup behaves, i usually reboot around 4 times with testing in between until i nail want.

Another thing to keep in mind is memory, while Bios releases have helped a lot into memory compatibilty, and your choice might be fine, its not on the QVL List of AsRock, i strongly suggest you pick something that its on the list or that you see a reviewer from newegg/amazon that have used it, else you run the risk of not being compatible, with intel is not a big deal but with AMD is more so.

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GameMiv3 >> AsRock H170 Pro4 | Intel Core i7-6700K | Prolimatech Genesis + 2x Thermalright TY-147A | Kingston HyperX FURY 64GB DDR4 2133 | MSI GTX1080 Gaming X | Acer Predator XB321HK 4K IPS Gsync | Samsung 850pro 1TB | WD RED 3TB | Silverstone FT05 + 2x Silverstone AP182 | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | SimMi


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:24 am 
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Also, some Asrock motherboards limit the number of voltage controlled case fans (in favor of PWM control). Be sure to read the model's product page/manual for this b4 purchase.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Thank you, Steve and Abula!

This is a lot of information to take in!

I had a look around for monitors. I have some experience with DPS scaling on my Windows 10 Lenovo work laptop, and I am not all that impressed. This makes me not want a small 4K monitor where I have to scale everything up to see it. Instead, I think I will look for higher refresh rates. Looking around, I am thinking something like a 27' ISP panel, 1440p with 140 Hz. G-Sync looks nice too (expensive though!). Regardless, I think I make a mistake if I build something that can't handle a panel like that. I really don't see me keeping this monitor with the new build. I understand I can get away with a cheaper GTX 1050 for my current monitor, but I would like to be able to take advantage of a better display, and I want to build a PC that reflects that.

About the case. I am confused. I assume that better airflow is good for keeping the components cool, but too much airflow makes a case loud? Is the idea with the Silverstone KL07 that it will have enough airflow to stay cool enough, but still dampen sounds? In my mind, this is a different approach from pure air flow cases like the Corsair Air 740, Silverstone RL06 and Fractal Design Meshify C. For my needs, assuming I get a graphics card that can make use of a new monitor, I still might not need the best air low case? I can make do with something that focuses more on traditional noise reduction? Like the Silverstone KL07, Define C or one of the Corsairs - 400Q/600Q. Am I right assuming this?

About fans. I guess this will be addressed when I've picked a case, but I understand I will have to replace the stock case fans with something better, like matching the CPU cooler fan.

That's about as far as I got looking at this since I saw your excellent replies. Your comments also made me think it might be easier to go with an Asus mobo for easier fan control. And I have to revisit the choice of processor.

Thanks again for your valuable input!


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:40 pm 
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There's always a couple of ways to get to a quiet solution. Everything else being equal, at idle, the loudest component will be the sum of the case fans (gfx card fans turn off at idle these days as do many PSUs). At load, the loudest component will always be the gfx card.

An open case, like Abula mentioned, favors low resistance air. At load, this can mean the gfx card is getting more case air flow than a closed case, leading to lower gfx card temps and fan speeds. This could lead to it being quieter than a closed style case. At idle/low loads, it could be louder as there isn't any sound baffling between you and the fans. <shrugs>

Really, don't sweat it. Put decent, quiet components in, and any of these cases will work well for you. Pick what you like for style and features.

I did want to revisit this:
Quote:
The space under my desk is somewhat limited hight wise. I have about 60 cm high

Is this an open area under the desk or a cubbyhole you want to put the PC in? If the latter, you'll want to tell us all the dimensions and whether or not the back is open or closed. (If you stuff a PC in a small space, you've constrained it's ability to shed heat. Hence, it'll be louder.)

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:48 am 
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Regarding CPU you might save some money by getting an R5 1600X instead. You don't need the extra cores and will have a little more cooling headroom for overclocking.

Foggy wrote:
... Running at 1900x1200. I would like to upgrade, maybe to something that has 120hz. My wife has a 1900x1080. Great for gaming, but I find I like the extra space offered from the extra height on 1900x1200 doing office work and surfing the web.
I'm also a big fan of the 1.6:1 format, for the same reason.
Not too long ago I purchased a Benq 24" IPS monitor 1900x1200, 60Hz (upgrading from a cheapish 1680x1050 TN). I find IPS to be so much better than TN for colours and viewing angle.
Getting a similar monitor with >100Hz refresh rate will most likely cost you ~30k NOK (or more).


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:43 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
There's always a couple of ways to get to a quiet solution. Everything else being equal, at idle, the loudest component will be the sum of the case fans (gfx card fans turn off at idle these days as do many PSUs). At load, the loudest component will always be the gfx card.

An open case, like Abula mentioned, favors low resistance air. At load, this can mean the gfx card is getting more case air flow than a closed case, leading to lower gfx card temps and fan speeds. This could lead to it being quieter than a closed style case. At idle/low loads, it could be louder as there isn't any sound baffling between you and the fans. <shrugs>

Really, don't sweat it. Put decent, quiet components in, and any of these cases will work well for you. Pick what you like for style and features.


Great! I like this.

CA_Steve wrote:
I did want to revisit this:
Quote:
The space under my desk is somewhat limited hight wise. I have about 60 cm high

Is this an open area under the desk or a cubbyhole you want to put the PC in? If the latter, you'll want to tell us all the dimensions and whether or not the back is open or closed. (If you stuff a PC in a small space, you've constrained it's ability to shed heat. Hence, it'll be louder.)


It's just a desk/table. No cubbyhole. The desk is pushed into a corner. For aesthetic and practical reasons I would like to push the PC towards the back into the corner, but I understand that might restrict the airflow. I think I can easily have a foot from the back of the PC to the back wall. I can leave a few inches between the desk and the wall as well, letting some air escape from under the desk.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Olle P wrote:
Regarding CPU you might save some money by getting an R5 1600X instead. You don't need the extra cores and will have a little more cooling headroom for overclocking.


Thanks for the tip on the CPU and monitor, Olle. I've never overclocked anything, so I am not sure getting the R5 1600X adds much for me...


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:10 am 
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If you don't overclock the 1600X is definitely better than the 1700 because the stock frequencies are higher!


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:15 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
CPU: Ryzen 7 1700 will work. Somewhat overkill for your games. An alternative is the Intel i5 8400. Costs less, tends to do better than the 1700 in gaming tests.

I am starting to get the feeling that the Intel CPU i8400 might be better for me. That CPU really stands out as good value for the money. The test you linked to, Steve, was an eyeopener. However, there is an issue with a mobo for that CPU. From what I understand only premium motherboards are available. I guess it's still cheaper than the R7 1700 route, but Olle had an interesting option with the R5 1600X. Looking at the combined price of the Intel i58400 and a mobo, it will probably be higher than the R5 1600X route.

I don't mind buying a quality mobo as long as I get a quality that I benefit from. It does seem like the I8400 is a better fit for my needs. I liked the Ryzen idea, but if I can't make use of its strengths, I don't really see the point of it (for me).

Any thoughts on this? Steve, do you have any thoughts on a good mobo for that Intel i8400?


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Yeah, Intel only released Z series chipset for the Coffee Lake CPUs. So, mobo prices tend to be higher vs AMD mobo's where there are a lot of "value" solutions. The tradeoff is price, certainly. But, there's also feature sets...like I said earlier, if you use the mobo analog out, then a board with a decent ALC1220 solution adds value over the older 887 and 892 codecs. I also like Intel NIC over Realtec or the "killer" stuff. All of the big 4 (Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, and Asrock) make decent boards and all now have decent bios level fan controls with some tradeoffs between them. Asrock has the most granular, but also can limit the number of voltage controlled case fans (gotta look at the product details for that). Finally, look at the customer reviews at large e-tailers like Newegg and Amazon. Some great looking mobos might just be dogs...with the caveat that earliest reviews may be more wingeing about bad drivers than board "goodness".

Asrock's Z370 Pro4 and Z370M Pro4 have great reviews at Newegg, Intel NIC and the ALC892 codec. Their Z370 Extreme4 upgrades to the ALC1220. Seems like Newegg customers are mostly buying Asrock. :)

Asus Prime Z370-A has 1220 codec and Intel NIC....and more good reviews at Amazon...

Anyway, there's a couple for you.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:17 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Seems like Newegg customers are mostly buying Asrock. :)
Something weird is happening in Newegg, seems most reviews are getting a discount for posting their review or part of the discount.... all AsRock coffee lake products have a lot of reviews and stellar for the most part, i dont have anything against the brand, i personally prefer AsRock over any other brand... but i find this a little skewed.

New H/B mobo should be released on Q1 2018, although and there are rummors that 2nd half of 2018 will have Z390.... who knows why or for what pupose will intel release a higher end chipset, there is also a rummor that the release of z390 might have 8 core with dedicated gpu on it.... nothing is official or for certain.

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GameMiv3 >> AsRock H170 Pro4 | Intel Core i7-6700K | Prolimatech Genesis + 2x Thermalright TY-147A | Kingston HyperX FURY 64GB DDR4 2133 | MSI GTX1080 Gaming X | Acer Predator XB321HK 4K IPS Gsync | Samsung 850pro 1TB | WD RED 3TB | Silverstone FT05 + 2x Silverstone AP182 | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | SimMi


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:51 am 
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There's always the option to "wait a couple of months to get something better", at which time even better stuff will be available in the future...
Q1 '18 is expected to come with the full range of Coffee Lake products (because that's the originally intended release date for CL), as well as new (faster) Ryzen CPUs, and possibly also new chipsets for Ryzen.

If you get a Core i5-8400 and Z370 motherboard you'll have a fine system for now. Replacing the CPU with something beyond Coffee Lake is as of now uncertain.
If you get on the Ryzen train you will (according to AMD) be able to get a CPU released in 2021 and plug it right into the motherboard.

My Gigabyte AB350-Gaming 3 motherboard has the 1220 audio chip and a specific audio USB connector, which is nice. No Intel NIC controllers though, but Realtek all through. (Can't say I'd notice any difference.)


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:22 am 
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Location: Norway
Hi guys,

I finally had some time to look at this again and updated my list.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.89 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Scythe - Mugen 5 51.2 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus - Prime Z370-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($167.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Kingston - FURY 16GB (1 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($174.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($167.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($167.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB ROG STRIX Video Card ($554.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Define C ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.59 @ SuperBiiz)
Monitor: AOC - AG271QG 27.0" 2560x1440 165Hz Monitor ($599.99 @ B&H)
Total: $2263.19
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-12-25 11:46 EST-0500

As you can see I changed the CPU and motherboard. I also ended up with the Fractal Design C case. From what I am able to gather it seems like a high-quality case that is easy to build in. And it's made by a Swedish company. Not sure if that is positive or negative. (Just kidding Olle :wink: )

I added in a monitor just to get the full picture.

I've been going back and forth on the monitor and the graphics card. It's tempting to go with a budget card, and make do with the monitor I have, and then upgrade everything down the road when the next generation of Nvidia cards comes out.

Let me know what you guys think.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:49 am 
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I'll leave the "spend gfx money now or later" argument for you to solve :)

Couple of thoughts...

RAM: The default speed for the Coffee Lake memory controller is 2666 (every gen seems to creep up a step). You do have a Z chipset...so you can also go beyond 2666 if you wanted to. There's an incremental benefit to min frame rates in gaming going up in the 3000 range....but really, no reason to go overboard. However, since there are 4 RAM slots, you really ought to go with a 2 x 8GB dual channel kit.

Case: Fractal C is a good case. Might want to get a third fan ( for 2 front and one rear).

The rest looks good.

Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:33 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
I'll leave the "spend gfx money now or later" argument for you to solve :)

Thanks, Steve!

About the ram. I never understood why it's a good idea to buy a ram in pairs. The one I got is listed as OK by Asus to be alone. Getting 2x8 now limits my maximum to 48. Anyway. I know to take advice when I get it, so I picked out a new pair.

Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($184.99 @ Newegg)

Quote:
Case: Fractal C is a good case. Might want to get a third fan ( for 2 front and one rear).


Good idea. Get three like on the CPU cooler (The Scyth Mugen) to it it all the same, or just get one?

Quote:
The rest looks good.
:shock:

Merry Christmas! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:37 am 
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The Ripjaws V RAM has 42mm height, Mugen 5 Rev B has 43mm clearance to the bottom fin on the offset side - 55mm on the notched side. Translation: should work in at least one orientation. :)

RAM in pairs: the memory controller is dual channel which theoretically doubles the memory bandwidth when you fill the pair of slots. In reality, the performance bump/limitation by having dual channel vs single RAM slot filled is pretty much decided by other factors (CPU/architecture/OS/memory intensiveness of the application/etc..). In a lower end system, memory BW probably isn't the bottleneck...when you start adding higher end PCIe SSDs and high end gfx cards, then there is the potential need for faster RAM / more RAM BW.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:13 am 
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I got a Define C for my son.
I wholeheartedly second the suggestion to add more fans. With the included fans only his graphics card (an Asus R9 280) overheated in about fifteen minutes of gaming!
Two new 14cm fans at the front and the original 12cm front fan moved to be exhaust at the top rear position solved that problem. (The fans now don't even need to run at full speed, but can be kept somewhat quiet.)
Otherwise it's a nice case designed, but not manufactured, in Sweden. :)

I also concur with the suggestion to use dual channel RAM. 16GB is more than plenty for typical daily use.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Okay! Will get two new fans then.

Quick question about the CPU cooler. There seem to be several versions of the Mugen 5. Does it matter which one I get?

Started buying the parts now. Turns out my wife wants this build y'all recommended instead of a laptop, so I have to get two sets. :roll:


Last edited by Foggy on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Quote:
There seem to be several versions of the Mugen 5. Does it matter which one I get?

Not really. I think the difference between the Mugen 5 and the Rev B is the latter has added AMD AM4 compatibility. There might be a PCGH version out there with 2 fans instead of one...

Suggestion: build the first one, tweak as needed for thermal and noise performance and then order the parts for the second one. You never know - might want to make some changes after ordering.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Great! I will just get the Mugen I can get hold of then.

CA_Steve wrote:
Quote:
Suggestion: build the first one, tweak as needed for thermal and noise performance and then order the parts for the second one. You never know - might want to make some changes after ordering.


Too late :) At least partly. Already ordered the graphics card. And I want to take advantage of the deals that pop up between Christmas and Newyears eve.

Found a really good deal on Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-650FX 650W 80+ Gold. $ 55 after mail-in rebate. I guess I can use the 650W just as well as the 550W?

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/WrNypg ... -ssr-650fx

About the fans. Abula recommended getting the same fan that's on the Mugen Scyth. They are only 120mm. On the "Quiet 4K Gaming PC Build Guide" they used Phanteks PH-F140HP. Is there a newer version of these?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709043&cm_re=Phanteks_PH-F140HP-_-35-709-043-_-Product


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Foggy wrote:
Found a really good deal on Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-650FX 650W 80+ Gold. $ 55 after mail-in rebate. I guess I can use the 650W just as well as the 550W?

Yep.

Foggy wrote:
About the fans. Abula recommended getting the same fan that's on the Mugen Scyth. They are only 120mm. On the "Quiet 4K Gaming PC Build Guide" they used Phanteks PH-F140HP. Is there a newer version of these?

For 140mm, Abula pushes the Thermalright TY-147A's. :) Wide PWM control range.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Foggy wrote:
About the fans. Abula recommended getting the same fan that's on the Mugen Scyth. They are only 120mm. On the "Quiet 4K Gaming PC Build Guide" they used Phanteks PH-F140HP. Is there a newer version of these?
Im a little confused, are you going with the Mugen5 or the MugenMax? if you are going with the Mugen5 why are you looking for 140mm fan? i suggested the 120mm scythe similar fan, but you can go with whatever pwm fan you like, not sure why 140 though.

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GameMiv3 >> AsRock H170 Pro4 | Intel Core i7-6700K | Prolimatech Genesis + 2x Thermalright TY-147A | Kingston HyperX FURY 64GB DDR4 2133 | MSI GTX1080 Gaming X | Acer Predator XB321HK 4K IPS Gsync | Samsung 850pro 1TB | WD RED 3TB | Silverstone FT05 + 2x Silverstone AP182 | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | SimMi


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:30 pm 
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replacement case fans

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:42 am 
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I have about half the parts gathered up now. The wife has discovered that the build only contains 1TB of storage, and now she wants more for her movies.

Not quite sure how to address this. I feel like I am going backward looking into hard drives, but for big storage, they are still hard to beat $ for storage. I looked through some of the posts talking about suspended HD and such, but I wonder if I really need to go that far.

She will use this HD to store movies and stream to the den using Plex. Half the time she won't be in the room with the HD. As I write this, I just realized I might be though. I have HDs today in my Asus, and the noise does not really bother me except when they spin up. Of course, after that, my current fans probably drown the noise.

How annoying are HDs these days? From what I understand I can turn them off when they are not in use. I am thinking I might be OK with this and just buy a slow big HD. Most of the time it will be off.

Do you have any other ideas or an HD you "like"? The recommended list looked a bit outdated.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:22 am 
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Well you are in a dilema, i see three options,

1) Get a bigger SSD, now a days you can find 2tb ssds around $500, if thats not enough 4tb ssds sell around $1500.

2) Get a NAS, a premade NAS from Synology/Qnap would be a great addition, they can even run PLEX among other things like backup your pcs, survaillance, etc. MOst of them are very efficient and consume very little electricity, thus you can leave them running 24/7.

3) Get a mechancial hdd, for SPCR WD Greens were the standard for decades, but now they are discontinued (although you might still find some left overs), WD greens were united with WD Blues. WD Reds were also good (some say they were greens with slightly different firmware and added raid capabilities), i have very good experience with my 3tb WD Red, but there has been reports that newer versions changed and became more noisy (this i cant say its true, havent bought a newer 3tb red).

My recommendation is go with WD Red, size and price up to you, if you find it too noisy for your current setup, then invest on a NAS and put it out of your hearing range.

_________________
GameMiv3 >> AsRock H170 Pro4 | Intel Core i7-6700K | Prolimatech Genesis + 2x Thermalright TY-147A | Kingston HyperX FURY 64GB DDR4 2133 | MSI GTX1080 Gaming X | Acer Predator XB321HK 4K IPS Gsync | Samsung 850pro 1TB | WD RED 3TB | Silverstone FT05 + 2x Silverstone AP182 | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | SimMi


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 Post subject: Re: Considering a new build. Suggestions are most welcome.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:02 am 
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Good stuff Abula! Will get a WD Red then :)

I meant to ask something else as well. What do you guys do for Wifi? The motherboard doesn't have wifi. I'll probably run some cables, but I thought it would be nice to have the wifi option as well.


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