SPCR

Please answer the poll itself AND reply in this thread.

Due to the many recent posts about the Samsung's whine (and both of my own harddrives being whiny) countered by the many others who assure everyone that they can't hear anything, I think a poll of SPCR is in order.

This could help determine whether Samsung is on a trend towards becoming whiny and/or how to determine whether a harddrive will have this problem just by looking at it.

The format for replying (for the easiest collection of statistics) is (PLEASE DO EVERY HARDDRIVE SEPARATELY):

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): (Whine/No whine/Barely noticeable)
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): (Whine/No whine/Barely noticeable)
Model Number: (SP1614C, SP1614N, etc)
Supplier: (newegg, etc)
Month of purchase: (2004.01, 2003.12, etc) (format: year.month, it's the same one Samsung uses)
Motor: Instructions on finding this below (JVC sticker, JVC stamp, NIDEC sticker, NIDEC stamp, None, etc) (as you can see you should note whether it's a sticker or a stamp) ALSO CHECK TO MAKE SURE YOUR STICKER/STAMP HAS 'FDB' WRITTEN SOMEWHERE ON IT. IF IT DOES, MAKE A NOTE OF IT HERE.
Revision: Instructions on finding this below (Rev A, etc)
Date of Manufacturing: Instructions on finding this below (2004.01, etc)
Any other relevant/interesting info: (idle noise it makes, loudness of seeks, your hearing sensitivity, anything else you know about this)

Due to the nice formatting other people have started using, here is the new and improved thing to copy (put your responses between the bold tags):
Instructions on finding Revision number/Date of manufacturing:
This is the front of the drive: http://www.zagraf.com/hd-front.jpg Zoom in on the red part.
The Revision is circled in blue, and the Date of Manufacturing is circled in red: http://www.zagraf.com/hd-reldata.jpg


Instructions on finding motor maker:
This is the back of the drive: http://www.zagraf.com/hd-full.jpg
Zoom in: http://www.zagraf.com/hd-zoomin.jpg
Here's the sticker: http://www.zagraf.com/hd-sticker.jpg
Here's the stamp: http://www.zagraf.com/hd-stamp.jpg

If you don't want to take the time to find all of these things, then I understand, but please contribute. This could become very important. At the very least it should provide for some very interesting statistics.

Here is my info:


Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): Whine
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): Whine
Model Number: SP1614C
Supplier: Newegg
Month of purchase: 2004.03
Motor: JVC sticker no FDB
Revision: Rev. A
Date of Manufacturing: 2004.01
Any other relevant/interesting info: The whinier harddrive of the two I have, will RMA it.

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): Barely noticeable
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): Whine
Model Number: SP1614C
Supplier: Newegg
Month of purchase: 2004.03 (almost 2004.04)
Motor: JVC stamp no FDB
Revision: Rev. A
Date of Manufacturing: 2004.03
Any other relevant/interesting info: Whine is very very very very barely noticeable (you have to listen for it, and even then you might not hear it) if it's wrapped in foam.

Also, my hearing is pretty sensitive. I can hear the words someone is whispering from across the room. I can also hear very high-pitched sounds.

can you hear what I'm saying right now?



But seriously, the two 120gb 5400rpm Samsungs I have are the whiniest, oddly enough. They're in my Tivo currently. They aren't noisy per se, but they do stick out-- of the ten spinpoints I own, these 2 generate more noise, relative to the other 8.

Of the other 8 spinpoints, I wouldn't say any are significantly noisier than the others. (EDIT: All PATA. I assume the PATA and SATA versions have the same basic internals with only interface chip/connector differences)

I have only purchased one spinpoint this year (120gb, 8mb, 7200rpm), so the rest are of 2003 vintage.

*Sigh* I guess I better post my findings some time when I get a chance ; expect them within the next couple days...

I have to open up Gamma One to find out for U guys, since I have already reported in extreme detail how mine performs, it probably would come in handy for this survey.

-Ed

Edward Ng wrote:since I have already reported in extreme detail how mine performs, it probably would come in handy for this survey.

-Ed

If you could send me hi-res pictures of the sticker on your samsung that would be awesome. I could then compare the stickers to see any differences.

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): No
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): Whine, but not much
Model Number: SP1614C
Supplier: Newegg
Month of purchase: 2004.04
Motor: JVC 040204ED stamp - no FDB
Revision: A
Date of Manufacturing: 2004.03
Any other relevant/interesting info: The whine is very quiet - I'd estimate 12-15 dba lower than my 800JB's (now sold!). Drive is in a damped Chenbro Genie with a mix of Sorbothane and elastic, and I do not think the drive is audible over my (minimal) fan noise. System is probably a couple db quieter than with the WD.

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): None that I can attribute to the drive
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): Barely noticeable
Model Number: SP0812C
Supplier: Newegg
Month of purchase: 2004.03
Motor: NIDEC FDB stamp
Revision: A
Date of Manufacturing: 2004.02
Any other relevant/interesting info: Antec Sonata case using the supplied hard drive mounting hardware. Very, very quiet seeks. I have very sensitive hearing. Especially to 60Hz hum and high pitched squealing.

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): No whine
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): No whine
Model Number: SP0812C
Supplier: http://overclockers.co.uk/
Month of purchase: 2004.04
Motor: stamp 40220AN P/V80 FDB R2 JVC
Revision: A
Date of Manufacturing: 2004.03
Any other relevant/interesting info: see below

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): No whine
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): No whine
Model Number: SP0812C
Supplier: http://overclockers.co.uk/
Month of purchase: 2004.03
Motor: stamp Nidec F0343421F FDB
Revision: A
Date of Manufacturing: 2003.12
Any other relevant/interesting info: see below

OK - the 'No whine' with ear next to the hdds is subjective - to cause an argument There definately is some noise but although high frequency, is much lower frequency than my 7200.7 40Gb (ST340014A) that I also got out for testing. And while I was at it I got my Fujitsu MPG3204AH (supposedly quiet in its day) and a Panaflo 80mm L1A. The whole lot was compared on a bench using a fanless psu in a reasonably quiet room in a reasonably quiet suburban area. The drives were placed electronic side down on soft foam rubber.

The SP0812Cs were both about as loud at 1m as the flo at 7V (the flo sitting on the same foam rubber, exhaust side aimed at listener). To try give some calibration of my hearing sensitivity and the environment: at 5V @ 1m I could not hear the flo, at 7V I could.
The 7200.7 was not necessarily louder than the SP0812Cs, but definately higher frequency so whiny is a better fit for the 7200.7.
The MPG3204AH was louder than the rest.
Close up the Nidec SP0812C was probably louder than the JVC: very similar frequency and this opinion may be affected as this drive was still bungee mounted (I removed the whole upper drive tray the bungee is bolted to) so had more mass on the foam.

ps - dimva: your sample photo of your JVC sticker doesn't mention FDB, whereas both my JVC and Nidec stamps do. Could it be as extreme that there was a batch with non-FDB JVC motors?

dukla2000 wrote:ps - dimva: your sample photo of your JVC sticker doesn't mention FDB, whereas both my JVC and Nidec stamps do. Could it be as extreme that there was a batch with non-FDB JVC motors?

!!!!!!!!!

FDB = Fluid Dynamic Bearing


If this doesn't have FDB.... holy shit, that might just be it.

Also, I admire all of you who participated AND used bold tags... I really should have bolded the questions for you though, but since you started using this nice format, I will adapt to it.

Well I have updated the stamp picture with the real drive, as well as put in the manufacturing date into my second post. I don't see any patterns yet, only that both of my JVC stickers/stamps did not have anything resembling 'FBD' on them.

Can those of you with silent samsungs please report as to whether your motor stickers have 'FDB' written on them? If this turns out to be the answer, it's perfect.

EDIT: Thank you Scott.

Ok, I shutdown my system and pulled the hard drive tonight in the name of research. Here's my findings:

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): None
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): No whine, faint whirring
Model Number: SP0802N
Supplier: Newegg.com
Month of purchase: March 2004
Motor: Nidec F0407621F FDB
Revision: A
Date of Manufacturing: 2004.03
Any other relevant/interesting info: Seeks are a low pitched kind of grumbly noise; hard mounted to drive cage.

Here's a pic of the FDB stamp for reference:

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): None
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): High pitched directional whine, as mentioned in the review
Model Number: SP1213N
Supplier: FrontierPC.com
Month of purchase: March 2004
Motor: NIDEC F0403321F FDB
Revision: A
Date of Manufacturing: 2004.02
Any other relevant/interesting info:

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): VERY LOUD - Across the room
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): VERY
Model Number: SP1614C
Supplier: KustomPCs - UK
Month of purchase: March 04
Motor: JVC - no mention of FDB on sticker
Revision: Not sure, in the machine now and can't be bothered taking it out
Date of Manufacturing: ditto
Any other relevant/interesting info: I've got an 80GB version from a different UK supplier which is just as bad, need to open other case to get details of that though

As I said in my other post on this I am very disappointed with the noise levels from the 2 spinpoints I have bought, way too loud to be used in an HTPC in the living room. I'm currently bidding for some barracuda IVs on ebay, hopefully they'll live up to the hype, if not it looks like it'll have to be a more expensive solution like one of the 2.5" toshibas.

Owain

I don't have a Samsung drive since my silencing project is yet to begin, but if any find it useful, I found the actual pages from the JVC and Nidec websites on their motors. This probably won't help much with our search for silence, but the Nidec page sure does explain a lot about hard drives.

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): None
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): low swirl sound, much like a Panaflo
Model Number: SP1604N
Supplier: Newegg
Month of purchase: April
Motor: Nidec F0348122F FDB G
Revision: A
Date of Manufacturing: 2003. 12
Any other relevant/interesting info: Some vibration, nothing compared to the WD that's ghosting to it. I'm very sensitive to high pitched noises (like SCSI drives, or a TV not able to tune in properly), and hear nothing high pitched but the video card fan--and that's my next quieting step.
I'll check the rest of the stats and update them once the ghosting is done (and I can remove the HDD cage).

Update: very audible but low frequency seeks, much like something is thunking against the drive's shell.

Mounted in a foam cradle, it completely inaudible with the case closed.

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): None
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): Barely noticeable
Model Number: SP0802N
Supplier: Local
Month of purchase: 2003.12
Motor: JVC sticker w/ FDB
Revision: unsure
Date of Manufacturing: Forgot to check
Any other relevant/interesting info: Absolutely no whine with case closed. Have to listen for whine when out of case

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): None
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): Soft whirl
Model Number: SP1614N
Supplier: Storage Studio (Singapore)
Month of purchase: 2004.3
Motor: Nidec xxxxxxx FDB Stamp
Revision: Rev A
Date of Manufacturing: 2003.12
Any other relevant/interesting info:

My 80gb BarracudaIV is louder in seeks and idle compared to this Samsung.

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): No whine
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): No whine
Model Number: SP1213N
Supplier: newegg
Month of purchase: March 04
Motor: Paper sticker - JVC 31112DN P/V80 2D R2
Revision: A (paper sticker on top of drive)
Date of Manufacturing: November 2003 (I guess, only date on drive)
Any other relevant/interesting info: Dead silent, minimal vibration

M

i have 2 SP1614C's. Both JVC w/o FDB

interestingly, if operated seperately, both have a very consistent, nearly inaudible whine.

However when both are plugged in, i get this "beeping" whine which is very annoying. If I put my ear right next to my case it's very distinct.

Hopefully this FDB thing can be figured out quickly. It would be a big hassle if I had to RMA two drives.

kofman...

WELCOME TO SPCR!!!

Anyhow, I have an answer to your problem right here.

-Ed

thanks edward!

btw i have emailed samsung about the FDB labels on the drive, hopefully I will get a response.

seems like only the SATA drives do not have FDB labeled on the spindle... hopefully these ARE FDB drives though.

I've just bought one of these - it arrived in the post today so i haven't tried it yet (and won't until June when I get back home)

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): N/A
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): N/A
Model Number: SP1614N
Supplier: eWiz
Month of purchase: April 04
Motor: Print - 40225DN P/V80 2D R2 JVC
Revision: A
Date of Manufacturing: 2004.03
Any other relevant/interesting info: Nope

Pretty depressing there's no FDB sticker, if it whines i won't be happy

Have a look at the Samsung website:

http://www.samsung.com/Products/HardDis ... P1614N.htm

It lists FDB as a feature, so I'd be surprised if it was pot luck if you got it or not (tho will be interesting to see what Samsung say)

If it turns out I've got inferior bearings and a whiny drive as a result, then I'll, er ... write to watchdog or something

Steve___ wrote:I've just bought one of these - it arrived in the post today so i haven't tried it yet (and won't until June when I get back home)

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): N/A
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): N/A
Model Number: SP1614N
Supplier: eWiz
Month of purchase: April 04
Motor: Print - 40225DN P/V80 2D R2 JVC
Revision: A
Date of Manufacturing: 2004.03
Any other relevant/interesting info: Nope

Pretty depressing there's no FDB sticker, if it whines i won't be happy

Have a look at the Samsung website:

http://www.samsung.com/Products/HardDis ... P1614N.htm

It lists FDB as a feature, so I'd be surprised if it was pot luck if you got it or not (tho will be interesting to see what Samsung say)

If it turns out I've got inferior bearings and a whiny drive as a result, then I'll, er ... write to watchdog or something

Isn't there any way you can test it now instead of waiting until June? Seems like you'd have a much easier time returning it right away then waitng another few months before you try.

No chance to test it until June I'm afraid - i'm stuck in some random apartment in NY on a business trip for the next week, and then going straight to India on holiday for a month. I only have a laptop at the moment anyway, so have no way to power the drive until I get the shuttle zen box I'm planning to order

I bought the drive in the US knowing that it would be mega hassle to return it if i needed to (I'm from the UK), but that I'd be saving plenty of £ due to the dollar being as weak as budweiser at the moment. Hopefully I haven't made a bad call

Steve___ wrote:No chance to test it until June I'm afraid - i'm stuck in some random apartment in NY on a business trip for the next week, and then going straight to India on holiday for a month. I only have a laptop at the moment anyway, so have no way to power the drive until I get the shuttle zen box I'm planning to order

I bought the drive in the US knowing that it would be mega hassle to return it if i needed to (I'm from the UK), but that I'd be saving plenty of £ due to the dollar being as weak as budweiser at the moment. Hopefully I haven't made a bad call

Maybe there's a local NYC SPCR guy that would let you bring the drive over so you could power it up. Or perhaps a mom-n-pop computer store would let you.

kofman wrote:i have 2 SP1614C's. Both JVC w/o FDB

interestingly, if operated seperately, both have a very consistent, nearly inaudible whine.

However when both are plugged in, i get this "beeping" whine which is very annoying. If I put my ear right next to my case it's very distinct.

Hopefully this FDB thing can be figured out quickly. It would be a big hassle if I had to RMA two drives.

Yup, exact same problem I'm having.

And I will have to RMA two drives.

And with my luck I'll probably have to RMA 4 drives or more.

kofman wrote:seems like only the SATA drives do not have FDB labeled on the spindle... hopefully these ARE FDB drives though.

SP0812C is SATA.

Scott and dukla2000's drives have FDB stamps on them.

As unfortunate as it seems, it looks like Samsung is simply shipping some drives without FDB even though they say all of them will have it!

I am 35 minutes north of Manhattan.

Yup, exact same problem I'm having.

And I will have to RMA two drives.

And with my luck I'll probably have to RMA 4 drives or more.

hmm let me know how it goes

does ANYONE have a SP1614C with "FDB" printed anywhere on it?

Edited this to include my results...

Noticeable whine (with case closed, about 1 meter away): no
Noticeable whine (with ear next to harddrive): very faint high-pitched wihne
Model Number: SP1604N
Supplier: NewEgg
Month of purchase: April04
Motor: JVC
Revision: 40105AD P/V40 2D R2
Date of Manufacturing:
Any other relevant/interesting info: jmuch lower vibration and seek noise that the Seagate 7200.7 I am using now.


I have two seagates in my system now that I was going to swap out for Samsungs. I'm definitely experiencing the "harmonic resonance" phenomenon that Edward referenced. My system sits in an enclosed wodden computer desk. I get very loud 1Hz hum. I'll try a single drive and see if it goes away...

good thread!

regards,
Tim