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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:11 am 
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Oh my WORD. That has to be THE worst joke ever made on this forum - and I should know.

What we need is a Worst SPCR Jokes thread! :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:17 am 
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Posts: 484
Location: Czech republic
Hell, now I want to complain a "little"! :evil:
...and I hope this is the right tread too :lol: :twisted:

[rant]

I want to complain about MSI KT6V mobo. This one:
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_sp ... l=KT6V-LSR
...well, let's start, shall we?
For a testing/backup machine I can overlook the fact that there are no holes around the Socket 462 - witch is IMHO serious flaw todays :roll:
But what I can't overlook is, that they claim it to 200Mhz (400 for DDR values) FSB, while I found that maximum FSB the mobo handle (no, it's not a memory problem, my mems run at 216Mhz w/o glitch) is only 185Mhz when on air on open desk and 174Mhz when are inside my fanless case :? :evil: So much for 200Mhz. For fun I should add that in bios it allow me set up even 280Mhz FSB - what a sick joke! :x
I even installed much bigger NB cooler:
http://ax2.wz.cz/show.php?p=wc&v=v2&d=1&id=94&c=7
...but no help for FSB :evil:
The mosfets are kinda overheating too:
http://ax2.wz.cz/show.php?p=wc&v=v2&d=1&id=97&c=7
...running at 174x14 (2436Mhz only) at 1.850Vcore :roll:

However the main flaw is up to come - right now! The mobo DID NOT ALLOW ME TO CHANGE MULTIPLIER ON UNLOCKED mobile Barton CPU!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: I use AXP 2500+ with default 166x11
http://ax2.wz.cz/show.php?p=badthingsha ... 7&d=1&v=v2
...and it of course allow me to change the multiplier any way I want into Abit KD7-G mobo or Epox 8RDA+ mobo - and sure with others too - except this MSI KT6V one :evil:

Now to stop only blaming MSI, it's nice that they at least recognizing the mobile CPU: http://ax2.wz.cz/AXPmobile.gif ...however the multipler issue are IMHO very serious! :evil: That is not a support for any AMD cpu then! :evil: Not to mention that the voltage control looks nice:

MSI KT6V
Vcore 1,35 - 2,30
Vdimm 2,50 - 2,85
Vagp 1,50 - 1,85

...but only untill I tell you, that for Vcore case, there is nothing betwen 1.850 and 2.0Vcore...! :evil:

So, i took the time and write to them about mentioned issues, and this reply I got next day:

Quote:
Unfortunally, all desktop boards will not support the Mobile processors. Please use desktop processors for desktop boards.

You can also try with the attached bios update for the mb.

Sincerely, Technical Support Division, MSI Computer Corp.


Attached was a nice bios 1.51 beta, witch did not fix a thing :? ...well, at least did not make things worser :x

[/rant]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:08 pm 
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Blasted! My brand new Soltek SL-KT600-RL does not allow changing the multipier either! For Christ sake, it even lets me play in the BIOS with the multiplier setting, just does not apply it anywhere! This is not good... :(

I wonder, if the board specifies that it allows changing the multiplier on the unlocked CPUs, which CPUs they mean then? All desktop XPs are multiplier locked, aren't they?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:41 pm 
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trodas wrote:
I want to complain about MSI KT6V mobo. This one:
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_sp ... l=KT6V-LSR
...well, let's start, shall we?

That's what I bought for my file server a couple months ago. The feature set is solid, but the settings sure are weird. OCing the FSB while running the RAM asynchronously requires some sort of mystical chanting or something. While I've seen it happen, I can't reliably duplicate the behavior... And after working with my P4 rig's ICH5 SATA, the Via's need for drivers is a letdown. I will be nice and say that it is a solid board that works great (for me...) at stock settings.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:05 am 
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Location: Czech republic
Tigr - WTH! Damn, blame the tech support to hell! :x That faults are untolerable... :? There are out still some old AthlonsXP with unlocked multiplicators too, I wonder is they will work - eg. allow the multiplicator changes... :roll: My bet is on no, because I did not see any way how the mobile Barton differ from regular one, except being unlocked and having different default Vcore voltage :roll:

HammerSandwich - I never can run the rams asynchon to FSB anyway. My quess that I did not do the VooDoo ritual of decoursing the VIA KT600 chipset properly :? :wink: ...Im such lamer! :lol:
Drivers did not bothering me, but the speed does. I have complaing about nForce2 network speed, but the VIA is even worser. The performance is simply uncomparable - much lower that nForce2 mobos...
And yes, that is good to add too - the mobo is pretty solid now, 174x14 with 1.850Vcore and clocking stable for week - not a single problem. I just wanted to complain about pretty weird forced 14x multiplicator to let users warn that this might happen to them too :?
...and the biggest letdown is the technical support blah blah about "use desktop CPUs" :( My quess is, that they did not know what the hell they are talking about and they just trying to pi*s against the wind :roll: :oops:
Everyone buing the mobile CPUs to get unlocked multiplicators, cold CPUs, overclockable beasts and so on. From HTPC users to extreme overclockers, everyone go this way. IF MSI think that they are all wrong, then MSI will probably be left away....

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 Post subject: Slient cases = False advertising
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:28 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
I think that there isn't a single "classic" computer case that should be labeled as quiet ou silent.

The fact is that any conventionnal computer casing must have open areas for ventilation unless you want to get puddle of moltent silicon. Therefore, the noise the computer make depends on the components used inside.

There are indeed some cases that feature better air flow desing and higher quality fans to make less noise, but none are able to run quietly if you use a orb, a SCSI HD reving at 15K RPM, or anything less exagerated than the examples I have listed. ;)

IMO, the only computer casings that have the right to claim that they are quiet or silent are the ones that are completly closed and operate with head pipes and no fans. ( I was forgetting the KooL Kustom modded boxes that silent PC freaks build! :) )

The bottom line is that even if it's written "hear silence" on the box of my Antec Sonata it's not silent. It's at best quiet but that is because of the mods I have made.

As an after thought : Maybe we are going the wrong way to get silent computers. Instead of blaming case manufacturers and cooling solution designers we should be pressuring corporations like AMD, Intel, ATI, NVidia to use make components that aren't able to cook your dinner quicker than your microwave oven. According to Moore's law, the transistor budget doubles each year. They could use that buget to make cooler chips instead of faster chips.

For a good explanation of Moore's law, check out Arstechnica excellent three-part investigation and explanation of Moore's original paper.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:18 pm 
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Quote:
For a testing/backup machine I can overlook the fact that there are no holes around the Socket 462 - witch is IMHO serious flaw todays

About 6 months ago (maybe longer), AMD removed the recommendation or requirement for those 4 holes. Hence very very few new socket-A boards now have these holes, and even when they do, tiny surface components are so close that there is danager of damage if you use the holes for HS mounting. It's an AMD FU.

Prozzaks --

No question that it's the VGA and CPU makers that drive the heat & need for cooling up. This site could be seen as a permanent reminder to them to bring the heat down, but even more important are the buying choices you (we) all make: Everytime you buy a >80W CPU or a >50W VGA card, you're giving the manufacturers reason to continue on their upward (thermal) path. So buy lower power and pointedly tell the makers & the retailers why. How you spend your money is really the most effective vote you have.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:35 pm 
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Time for an update about my KT6V system...

I used that PC to test some new PC3200 a few weeks back. After a couple days of testing, I shut down the machine and replaced the RAM. It took me about 4 more days to realize that I"d never fixed the settings and that the PC had a bit of an overclock. The Applebred had been running at +50% and the 3yo Samsung PC2700 was at PC3200. Worked so nicely, I left it alone.

Still don't know how to set async reliably.


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 Post subject: Changing the hardware choices
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:54 am 
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
MikeC wrote:
How you spend your money is really the most effective vote you have.


I do agree that the choices we do as consumers is some form of power. However, the vast majority of consumers ( of computers ) don't understand the technical aspects of the product they are buying and are, therefore, unable to make a responsible choice.

They don't understand what is the difference between RAM and HD space. How many times I asked "How much RAM do you have?" To get an answer like : "40 GB" So how are they supposed to understand that the processor they are buying has an average thermal dissipation of XXX Watts? Maybe we should get computer manufacturers to label their products with average and maximum power and the cost associated if you run that system for one year 24/7. That might be a way of getting the attention of the typical consumer.

So, yes, we do have power as consumers, but the power we have is terribly small and marginal when compared to the hordes that just want the "Fastest computer" without even knowing what is required to have a fast computer. That is why I think that some other way is necessary to get the message through to the hardware designers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:05 am 
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Quote:
some other way is necessary to get the message through to the hardware designers

It's not the hardware designers you need to influence; it is the people who set their objectives. I've said this before: If management and marketing become convinced that truly quiet products (not just claims of quiet) will give them a selling edge over competitors, you will see super quiet stuff out there so fast it will make your head spin.

Which is why I believe the only way you can really influence makers of hardware is to show them the $$, one way or another.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:01 pm 
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Posts: 11
Location: El Cerrito, CA
digitalix wrote:
Let's not forget Enermax Whisper :)


It would be hard to forget. It was about four times loder than the the generic power supply I bought it to replaced, even with its fan control knob turned all the way down (oddly it only controlls only one of the two fans). With my Antec Phantom dead, I had to reinstall the Enermax. With one fan disconnected, the other fan being run through a resistor-based fan silencer and having its speed control turned all the way down, the thing is still damn loud.


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 Post subject: Sunbeam rubber fan "screws"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:47 am 
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Posts: 28
Location: Finger Lakes area of NY
Here is deceptive marketing for sure. Has anyone here tried to use these t hings? Any had success? The opinion among a group of us at the Anandtech Forums is that they are total crap and don't meet even a loose interpretation of the merchantability (fitness for purpose) test.

I'll be starting a thread here about it if there isn't one already.

.bh.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:32 pm 
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Posts: 85
Location: Texas
Tigr wrote:
Blasted! My brand new Soltek SL-KT600-RL does not allow changing the multipier either! For Christ sake, it even lets me play in the BIOS with the multiplier setting, just does not apply it anywhere! This is not good... :(

I wonder, if the board specifies that it allows changing the multiplier on the unlocked CPUs, which CPUs they mean then? All desktop XPs are multiplier locked, aren't they?


Nope, theres a big batch of XP 2500+ processors with unlocked multipliers.

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 Post subject: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 910W
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:07 am 
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Looks like we got a good candidate here : http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=157

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:32 am 
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jhh wrote:
Maybe I'm confusing definitions but to me the "silent" means no noise (ie 0dBA), with quiet meaning little noise. Maybe this is a misconception but I think it's one the industry sees and takes advantage of.

No, you're quite right. Any company that calls something silent that makes noise could theoretically be sued.

Abusing English like this, despite it being a common practice for the industry, is not right. Silent is silent, regardless of how many companies try to use it instead of the word quiet. Moreover, the word quiet is subjective. It's about as worthless as "natural" for food marketing.

What the industry really needs is a standardized decibel rating, with a standardized measurement paradigm. That way, people could see the (truthful) decibel numbers on the label and know, objectively, approximately how loud the product actually is.


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 Post subject: Re: Dubious Marketing
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:33 am 
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RIchardF --

You do realize you're posted in a thread dormant for >5 years!? :lol:

Never mind, some things are timeless. Here's an apropos article for you: What is a "Silent" Computer?

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 Post subject: Re: Dubious Marketing
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:19 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
Never mind, some things are timeless.

Exactly. Dubious marketing will exist as long as there is profit motive.


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 Post subject: Re: Dubious Marketing
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Location: Boston, MA, USA
I have yet to find a silent computer. They all make noise if I drop them far enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Dubious Marketing
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:16 am 
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andymcca wrote:
I have yet to find a silent computer. They all make noise if I drop them far enough.

you just need the right case.


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