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Two loons, a papst, and a coolermaster
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20005
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Author:  frankgehry [ Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Two loons, a papst, and a coolermaster

FAN TEST II

TEST EQUIPMENT USED:
Thermaltake Hardcano 13 fan controller
TBAL fan controller
Kleenex brand anemometer (stick with strips of kleenex)
Bounty reference microphone (paper towel cardboard tube)

NOTES ABOUT TEST METHODOLOGY:
Forefinger blade tap maneuver - When I first pick up a fan, especially if its clear or translucent, I always tap the blades to see if its different from typical black fans. I can't hear that clear plastic fans in actual use sound worse than black ones, although this might be something you can pick up in time and I'm just recording this for future reference.

Forefinger spin maneuver - This test is just a quick spin of the blades by hand to see how well its balanced. This is useful because the yate loons really stand out as having excellent balance. The naming convention is sort of a spoof, but these tests serve as part of a visual inspection to determine build quality. Really, I'm looking for something that will make a particular fan stand out or fare not so well against the others.


Image
PAPST 4412F/2GL w/rpm sensing

Top speed: 1630 rpm
Forefinger blade tap maneuver: Dull click
Forefinger blade spin maneuver: Extremely smooth and well balanced
Build quality: Very good - heavier than most

Speeds tested: 650/1000/1630
Bearing noise
Veritical: none all speeds
Off axis: moderate all speeds
Motor noise: minimal and unobtrusive at all speeds
Air delivery: minimal flutter
Vibration: minimal
OBSERVATIONS: Great fan. More bearing noise than usual off axis but shouldn't be a problem. Sintec bearing seems to allow blades to move perpindicular to face of fan - could also be a reason for quietness

Image
TEKGEMS YATE LOON D12SL-12 w/rpm sensing

Top speed: 1350 rpm
Forefinger blade tap maneuver: Dull click
Forefinger blade spin maneuver: Extremely smooth and well balanced
Build quality: Very good

Speeds tested: 650/1000/1350
Bearing noise
Veritical: minimal at 650
Off axis: moderate all speeds
Motor noise: minimal, low frequency, and neutral at all speeds
Air delivery: very smooth
Vibration: mimimal
OBSERVATIONS: Great fan characterized by extreme smoothness. Some bearing noise observed at lower speeds, but shouldn't be a problem. Slightly higher frequency motor noise that Nexus.

Image
PCTEK YATE LOON D12SM-12 w/o rpm sensing

Top speed: 1650 rpm
Forefinger blade tap maneuver: Dull click
Forefinger blade spin maneuver: Extremely smooth and well balanced
Build quality: Very good

Speeds tested: 650/1000/1650
Bearing noise
Veritical: none
Off axis: moderate all speeds
Motor noise: minimal, low frequency, and neutral at all speeds
Air delivery: very smooth
Vibration: mimimal
OBSERVATIONS: Great fan characterized by extreme smoothness. My sample did not have any signifcant bearing noise. Slightly higher frequency motor noise that Nexus. Virtually the same as D12SL-12 only faster.

Image
COOLERMASTER A12025-12CB-5BN-L1 with rpm sensing
UPDATE: The new model number is SUF-S12

Top speed: 1200 rpm
Forefinger blade tap maneuver: Dull click
Forefinger blade spin maneuver: very smooth and well balanced
Build quality: Very good

Speeds tested: 650/1000/1200
Bearing noise
Veritical: none
Off axis: none
Motor noise: minimal, unobtrusive, and neutral at all speeds
Air delivery: very smooth
Vibration: mimimal
OBSERVATIONS: Great fan with no bearing noise whatsoever. Motor noise was unobtrusive. Not quite as smooth as the Yate Loon models but every bit as quiet. If you are sensitive to bearing noise this may be a better choice that the Yate Loons

WRAP UP:
There are more similarities than differences among these fans especially at 650 rpm. The Papst proved itself to be very versatile with a relatively high top speed. A really really good fan. The Yate Loons stand out as being extremely smooth and well balanced. I prefered the D12SM-12 from PCTEK because of its higher top speed, but at 1630 rpm its not really that much faster than the D12SL-12. Chances are most of these fans will be run at <1000 rpm anyway. The Coolermaster was again a surprise and a confirmation of my original test of this fan. It does not have the characteristic smoothness of the Yate Loons, but it doesn't have any bearing noise and motor noise is unobtrusive. - FG

FAN TEST I

Author:  joshd2012 [ Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:09 pm ]
Post subject: 

Nice review. You really need to rank these fans, though, and generate a go-to list for fan purchases.

Author:  moshen [ Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:55 pm ]
Post subject: 

i would also suggest price listing (incl. shipping) for all fans pictured.
maybe even links to sites...

some of us are pretty frugal. ;)

Author:  frankgehry [ Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  costs and dealers

M,

I don't remember what the shipping was.

Papst - the only place I've seen this model was in Europe.
www.pcsilent.com
www.ichbinleise.com

TekGems Yate Loon D12SL-12
www.tekgems.com (sold out) ~ $4 each qty. of 10

PCTEK Yate Loon D12SM-12
www.pctekonline.com ~ $4 each qty. of 10

COOLERMASTER
www.svc.com $8 (good deal)
www.sundialmicro.com $9 (good service)

MAD DOG Techie Toyz Compusa $10 This is a D12SM-12 Yate Loon. I don't know if I want Techie Toyz in my SIG, but according to Bluefront, its a Yate Loon.

Author:  NeilBlanchard [ Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hello Frank:

Any seat-of-the-pants guesstimates of the relative air flow among these fans?

Author:  SometimesWarrior [ Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:09 pm ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
Kleenex brand anemometer (stick with strips of kleenex)
Bounty reference microphone (paper towel cardboard tube)

ROFL! :lol: Thanks for the write-up, Frank, the market for quiet 120mm fans is looking very good.

Author:  Bluefront [ Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

This Yate Loon thing is somewhat confusing. I have at least four different 120 Yate Loons.....every one slightly different.

The first one I ever got, came in an Ahanix Black Knight case. It's black, with no RPM wire. It has the words "Yate Loon" in raised letters on the side of the frame. On the hub is printed MJ 1202512M. Below that is the name MAY JIEPRECISION. Also sleeve bearing,.25A.

The main difference between the two Yate Loons pictured here, and this MJ Yate Loon, is the fan blade design. The trailing edges of each fan blade are much straighter than the D12SM-12 or the D12SL-12.

My MJ Yate Loon, and the black Techie Toys (Mad Dog) sold at CompUSA, are identical except for the wiring. (The MJ is a 2-wire fan). It's hard for me to tell what effect the fan blade design has on noise. When turning aproximately the same RPM, all these Yate Loons sound about the same. Even the blue LED Yate Loon from Comp Geeks (D12SM12) has the same sound qualities to me.

I guess if you get a sleeve-bearing 120 mm Yate Loon of any brand name, the acoustic quality will be the same at similar RPMs.... :D

Author:  frankgehry [ Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  cfms

Neil,

I never really used the kleenex flow meter although I did make one, but it was not that functional.

Papst 4412F/2GL 55.3 cfm, 1600 rpm, 26 dba, (manufacturers spec)
Yate loon D12SM-12 55 cfm, 1650 rpm, 28 dba, (manufactures spec)
Coolermaster 43 cfm, 1200 rpm, 22 dba (manufacturers spec)

I don't have the manufactures spec on the D12SL-12, but its somewhere between the coolermaster and the D12SM-12. - FG

Author:  Sizzle [ Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:20 am ]
Post subject: 

I have a handful of those Papst that were tested. I love those fans. Ramp down very well and no clicking. Expensive though.

Author:  tay [ Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:50 am ]
Post subject: 

Why not consolidate your two posts or at least crosslink so people can access both easily. IIRC you were comparing some new tek-chain fans in your previous post.

Author:  Techno Pride [ Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:39 am ]
Post subject: 

I have a 120mm CM LED fan with the same part/model numbers as well.

however, those are rated at 0.15A (on package) or 0.13A (sticker on fan) :roll:

mine says 1220rpm and 42cfm as well. Seems like coolemaster needs to get their marketing team sorted out :lol:

Author:  dpheffernan [ Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:03 am ]
Post subject: 

The CM LED fans have different stats then the UV / regular fans do.

Author:  Techno Pride [ Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:07 am ]
Post subject: 

perhaps the extra amps' for the LEDs?

anyway, both the UV and LED versions are rated for the same speed and noise anway.

Author:  fierce_freak [ Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:17 pm ]
Post subject: 

You can get the Coolermaster's at Jab-Tech also. They also have the 80mm flavor. I ordered two of the 120mm's and one of the 80mm's (for a v700 video heatsink I also ordered).
The CM comes in various colors - I got mine in green. I picked up a 92mm L1a, also.

I'll let you know how my samples fare when I receive 'em ;)

Author:  JanW [ Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cfms

frankgehry wrote:
Yate loon D12SM-12 55 cfm, 1650 rpm, 28 dba, (manufactures spec)

I'm confused about this spec. Where did you get it from? The NX3500 Review states its spec as 56 cfm, 1650 rpm, 39 dba. But going to yeateloon.com (which MikeC's review states as source of that info), I see the D12SM-12 spec'd for 70.5 cfm, 1650 rpm, 33 dba. About the only thing everyone agrees upon is the max rpm.

What gives :?:

Did MikeC ever measure airfow of this fan at 1650 rpm? Surely just ballparking typical fan performances one of the numbers (probably the 70.5 cfm rating) can be dismissed?

Author:  frankgehry [ Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  rely on published specs?

J,

What? You question my facts? Just kidding. I got that info from www.ichbinleise.com for the chieftec/yate loon D12SM-12. I haven't looked at the other sources, but I don't think its as noisy as 39 dba or puts out 70.5 cfm. Going by my delta triple blade low speed (top speed 1950 rpm) that puts out 57 cfm @ 31 dba and a chieftec/yate loon D12BM-12D (top speed 2000 rpm) which claims 30 dba and 55 cfm, the less powerful yate loon is going to be closer to 30 dba and 50-55 cfm. I have to stick with my orig. numbers for now. The D12SM-12 is similar to the papst as far as speed, noise and cfm. - FG

In my tests I always have a nexus as a reference, the yate loon D12SL-12 is a step up in speed from the nexus, and the papst and D12SM-12 represent a step up from the the D12SL-12. Anyway you have to use your own judgement when reading specs.

Oh. I looked over your post to quickly. Yes. With three sets of specs you need to get MikeC on the job.

Author:  JanW [ Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: rely on published specs?

frankgehry wrote:
... I don't think its as noisy as 39 dba or puts out 70.5 cfm ... the less powerful yate loon is going to be closer to 30 dba and 50-55 cfm.
Great, thanks a lot, frankgehry! That is exactly the answer I was hoping for. I don't have this fan myself, but I base my roundabout calculations on how fast to run the Nexus I put in my SuperTornado RevA2 on MikeC's review of the RevA3 and on the cfm specs of the D12SM-12 fan.

frankgehry wrote:
Oh. I looked over your post to quickly. Yes. With three sets of specs you need to get MikeC on the job.
You probably looked too early, not too fast :wink: . I edited that question in a little later. Should have marked it as an edit :oops:

EDIT: wording

Author:  dpheffernan [ Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

I have two D12SM-12's - one in my power supply, one rear exhaust, and these things at 12V are definitely more than 30dB... at 5V they're not too bad, very little bearing noise, but they still move a fair bit of air. At 12v, they move a ton of air. It was a great substitute for the stock D12BH-12 LED in my power supply, but as an exhaust, I think I might change it out for a quieter model.

Author:  frankgehry [ Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  cfm

D,

I don't think its going to be used at 12v. At the same speed as the D12SL-12 or any of the yate loon D12SL-12 clones or rebadged models, most people seem to think its indistinguishable as far as noise is concerned. The mfg. spec is 28 dba. but I don't know how they arrived at that figure or how you arrived at your number. - FG

The actual noise that you hear will be different if the fan is inside a psu inside of a case or if its a rear case fan.
Different samples may vary.
etc..
etc..

Author:  DrCR [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:30 am ]
Post subject: 

Hey FG. I enjoyed your humor as well. :) I'll add the Coolermaster to the sticky thread and give you credit as well as a link to this thread. Thanks for sharing your experience.

DrCR

_________

Author:  DryFire [ Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:15 pm ]
Post subject: 

I also have a pair of the coolermasters on my wc'ing radiator. They're ok at 12v (too noisy for me, especaily in a very restrictive envoirment) and very acceptable at 5v but do not produce enough airflow. I havn't tried 7v cause I haven't really had the time of the will to.

Author:  mikeraach [ Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:17 am ]
Post subject: 

Has anyone tried yate loon fans (specifically PCTEK YATE LOON D12SM-12 w/o rpm sensing) with PWM?

Author:  DrCR [ Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:27 am ]
Post subject: 

mikeraach wrote:
Has anyone tried yate loon fans (specifically PCTEK YATE LOON D12SM-12 w/o rpm sensing) with PWM?


Based on the Nexus, I would conjecture it to work OK. I can't say from experience though as I'm only undervolting currently.

Author:  winguy [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

Is the Coolermaster SUF-S12 with "open" corners? Also, does it come with a 3pin (w/ rpm) connector only? Thanks.

Author:  frankgehry [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 

open corners? - yes

here's a picture of the 3 pin connector. I believe it came with an unattached molex adapter too, but its been a while and I'm not sure about that.
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... t=fan+test

Author:  mattthemuppet [ Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 

for Mikeraach - I have a YL DS12SM as a case exhaust plugged into the fan header of an Abit NF7S and it's virtually inaudible at it's lowest starting speed (no idea what this is sadly - no RPM wire). Turning it off doesn't make hardly any difference in the sonic signature of my PC - perhaps a slight absence of v. v. low frequency noise (like a noise you only hear when it's not there, if that makes sense).

certainly no clicking or other weirdness!

Author:  mathias [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:55 pm ]
Post subject: 

I got three of those coolermasters(a red one, a green one and a white one so I would be able to tell them apart easily). First I casually checked them at somewhere around 7.5v, that basically confirmed Frank's observations. On all of them I couldn't detect any bearing noise is any orientation, but slight motor noise was noticeable. They seemed identical.

Upon much more careful examination:
At 12v, I couldn't notice any difference. They were considerably quieter than a yate loon D12SH at 5v.

At 5v, the red one had a little more motor noise than the others, and the white one had a bit more vibration(that is, it produced a more vibration noise against my desk).

At 12v with a 56ohm resistor on each, the red one seemed to have the least vibration.

The vibration noise probably meant very little if anything, it was very inconsistant, occuring with the fans standing on some sides but not on others, and even on the same sides it sometimes was there and sometimes wasn't.

So generally, the consistancy appears to be very high.

Author:  theyangster [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 

I also have the CM 120 UV silent
got at clubit for 7 bucks shipped!

sometimes though at 5v I hear a faint whistling sound... mine's controlled Via mike's DDPT switch

Author:  Techno Pride [ Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:47 pm ]
Post subject: 

I have the black version of the Coolermaster UV/LED. PL12S12L

Strangely, it has closed corners compared to the open corners of the UV/LED versions. This one is rated 0.06A compared to 0.05/0.13A. the 0.13A is the red led version. The blue led seems to be rated at 0.2A.

It doesn't have the RPM readout, but it should also be 1200rpm like it's pretty siblings. Comparing the black and UV version, the black one is slightly more quiet at 12v and a lot more quiet at 6v. Airflow seems to be the same, measured by putting my hand in front of the fan :lol:

All start fine @ 5v, lowest me fan controller will go

EDIT: wrong amp specs for the fans. corrected. added more info about black fan.

Author:  InTheFlow [ Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:33 am ]
Post subject: 

Hey FG,

I enjoyed this roundup and your sense of humor as well! :wink: Thanks for taking the time to do it.

And, thanks to everyone else who added their own observations.

I really like this forum. :D

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