Braswell motherboards

All about them.

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pac0
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:12 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by pac0 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:10 am

I Found an interesting article with the comparison between bay trail and braswell (it's in german):
http://www.technikaffe.de/anleitung-307 ... _bay_trail

Jakoob
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by Jakoob » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:29 am

Well from the tests it seems there is almost no change in the CPU cores and thanks to lower clock in has less power consumption, but also lower performance per core compared to Bay-trail. However GPU is upgraded and can push smooth video in 4K.

Only issue of the whole platform is lack of DC-in boards and very bad availability of PicoPSU + adapters :(

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:26 pm


mikecz
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:42 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by mikecz » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:27 pm

Does anyone know when the Asrock N3150DC-TX will be available to buy in North America (preferably Canada)? Though I'm curious to know when it will be for sale anywhere.

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:37 am

mikecz wrote:Does anyone know when the Asrock N3150DC-TX will be available to buy in North America (preferably Canada)? Though I'm curious to know when it will be for sale anywhere.
It took about 3 weeks to 1 month for the first batch of MB to reach the market, so we should expect the same timeframe for these new boards.

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:04 am

A review of the AsRock N3700M : http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7253/a ... index.html
Tested with a 1000W PSU and the writer says he expected better results... No kidding...

Kleer Kut
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:53 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by Kleer Kut » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:35 pm

Hi! I just joined here after seeing this thread. I have some numbers and observations to share regarding some low wattage computers. I was one of the lucky (or unlucky) people to pick up an ASRock N3150M motherboard while they were available at Newegg. I was purchasing RAM and had been on the fence for a while whether or not I would be buying Braswell. I just happened upon it before making my order, and seeing it for roughly the same price as the Q1900M I bought (J1900 Celeron), I went for it.

I guess a bit of background is in order. I haven't been specifically after silent PC's, but I have been after low power computers for off-grid use. I plan on frequenting places in the future beyond the reach of grid power and like the idea of a computer for simple work and entertainment purposes using solar. Since many of the newer low power PC parts are low noise or silent, I guess I happen to be interested in silent PC's by default! I have currently been testing out a small 12V solar PV setup using a 145 watt panel and 100AH of energy storage.

While I haven't had the chance to get the numbers from this new system (been sick and my Kill-A-Watt is being borrowed), I do have a bunch of numbers from other systems leading up to this point. I bought an M3-ATX power supply with brick from mini-box probably 7-8 years ago now, and started using it daily this year. I will spare you the long story, but suffice to say that I had my current HTPC and old HTPC using 200-250 watt ATX PSU's, and when the 200 watt PSU died, I decided to try out the M3-ATX in its place. I noticed a consistent drop in power consumption of about 10 watts, both at idle and under load on both PC's. Given that most of the efficiency is in the PicoPSU and lower efficiency in the power brick, I would imagine the power consumption going straight from sun>battery>PSU will be even lower than what my Kill-A-Watt reads.

I did testing comparing my current HTPC (Socket 1150 G1850 Celeron) to my old C2Duo (both computers have been undervolted) and saw a solid drop of 10 watts, with the same kind of drop once again when moving to the M3-ATX. I then got a J1900 board. I did a number of tests for power consumption, including idle, SuperPi, Intel burn test, and Prime95. I also decided to try out a game called 0 A.D. It seems to have the right mix of iGPU body-slamming intensity (at minimum graphics) and CPU usage, and seems to make more of a load than other methods I have used. Numbers that I came up with include:

G1850
Idle - 22.8w
0 A.D. - 53w

J1900
Idle - 14.4w
0 A.D. - 22.2w

This was the highest number recorded for each test. I did a cold boot and let the system sit for 2 minutes after reaching the desktop before starting each test. I went through a battery of tests, one by one with a cold boot for each, then repeating for a total of 3 runs to weed out any anomalies. I'm omitting the other results, as they were mainly CPU intensive, and they were done on Windows which I no longer use. I think finding real-world tests is more realistic than synthetic benchmarks for what I am looking for. This is why I went with 0 A.D. Plus it is free and can be used in Windows or Linux. It's a bit choppy to play on these small boards, and gets pretty bad by the end of a game with lots of units on the map. It does do a great job at pushing the limits of these boards.

During those tests, I used the same RAM, peripherals, HDD, and the PicoPSU-80. One of the reasons I was hesitant to get the Q1900M was the huge difference between 'professional' reviews and product reviews from users regarding power consumption. I realize the places reviewing larger systems have to use consistent hardware, but they should make it clear how inaccurate their numbers can be using a giant ATX PSU compared to something more appropriately sized. Even using cheap lower wattage ATX PSU's didn't compare to the efficiency of the PicoPSU setup. Given that it is only $35 for the smallest kit, and longevity of the product, I'm sure it can pay for itself in power savings over the lifetime of the device. In my case, needing less battery storage will be an even bigger savings.

I hope this first hand account gives people an idea on power consumption (on top of the other links provided), particularly when using a PicoPSU. I will share the numbers of the N3150M as soon as I have them. I look forward to learning and sharing more about these devices!

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:07 am

Kleer Kut wrote:Hi! I just joined here after seeing this thread. I have some numbers and observations to share regarding some low wattage computers. I was one of the lucky (or unlucky) people to pick up an ASRock N3150M motherboard while they were available at Newegg. I was purchasing RAM and had been on the fence for a while whether or not I would be buying Braswell. I just happened upon it before making my order, and seeing it for roughly the same price as the Q1900M I bought (J1900 Celeron), I went for it.

I guess a bit of background is in order. I haven't been specifically after silent PC's, but I have been after low power computers for off-grid use. I plan on frequenting places in the future beyond the reach of grid power and like the idea of a computer for simple work and entertainment purposes using solar. Since many of the newer low power PC parts are low noise or silent, I guess I happen to be interested in silent PC's by default! I have currently been testing out a small 12V solar PV setup using a 145 watt panel and 100AH of energy storage.

While I haven't had the chance to get the numbers from this new system (been sick and my Kill-A-Watt is being borrowed), I do have a bunch of numbers from other systems leading up to this point. I bought an M3-ATX power supply with brick from mini-box probably 7-8 years ago now, and started using it daily this year. I will spare you the long story, but suffice to say that I had my current HTPC and old HTPC using 200-250 watt ATX PSU's, and when the 200 watt PSU died, I decided to try out the M3-ATX in its place. I noticed a consistent drop in power consumption of about 10 watts, both at idle and under load on both PC's. Given that most of the efficiency is in the PicoPSU and lower efficiency in the power brick, I would imagine the power consumption going straight from sun>battery>PSU will be even lower than what my Kill-A-Watt reads.

I did testing comparing my current HTPC (Socket 1150 G1850 Celeron) to my old C2Duo (both computers have been undervolted) and saw a solid drop of 10 watts, with the same kind of drop once again when moving to the M3-ATX. I then got a J1900 board. I did a number of tests for power consumption, including idle, SuperPi, Intel burn test, and Prime95. I also decided to try out a game called 0 A.D. It seems to have the right mix of iGPU body-slamming intensity (at minimum graphics) and CPU usage, and seems to make more of a load than other methods I have used. Numbers that I came up with include:

G1850
Idle - 22.8w
0 A.D. - 53w

J1900
Idle - 14.4w
0 A.D. - 22.2w

This was the highest number recorded for each test. I did a cold boot and let the system sit for 2 minutes after reaching the desktop before starting each test. I went through a battery of tests, one by one with a cold boot for each, then repeating for a total of 3 runs to weed out any anomalies. I'm omitting the other results, as they were mainly CPU intensive, and they were done on Windows which I no longer use. I think finding real-world tests is more realistic than synthetic benchmarks for what I am looking for. This is why I went with 0 A.D. Plus it is free and can be used in Windows or Linux. It's a bit choppy to play on these small boards, and gets pretty bad by the end of a game with lots of units on the map. It does do a great job at pushing the limits of these boards.

During those tests, I used the same RAM, peripherals, HDD, and the PicoPSU-80. One of the reasons I was hesitant to get the Q1900M was the huge difference between 'professional' reviews and product reviews from users regarding power consumption. I realize the places reviewing larger systems have to use consistent hardware, but they should make it clear how inaccurate their numbers can be using a giant ATX PSU compared to something more appropriately sized. Even using cheap lower wattage ATX PSU's didn't compare to the efficiency of the PicoPSU setup. Given that it is only $35 for the smallest kit, and longevity of the product, I'm sure it can pay for itself in power savings over the lifetime of the device. In my case, needing less battery storage will be an even bigger savings.

I hope this first hand account gives people an idea on power consumption (on top of the other links provided), particularly when using a PicoPSU. I will share the numbers of the N3150M as soon as I have them. I look forward to learning and sharing more about these devices!
Interesting feedback, I plan to put my server off the grid too :)
Did you already disable serial, parallel ports ?
Is it also possible to publish numbers with no screen attached to the board (=GPU off) and sound chipset off ?
Thanks :)

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:03 am

I just pre-ordered an Asrock N3150DC-ITX :)
It is expected to be available on 11th this month !

Unfortunately, my wattmeter died yesterday so I'll have to find an other one... Unfortunately Belkin doesn't make them anymore (Belkin Conserve Insight)

aymaliev
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:40 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by aymaliev » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:29 am

On the topic, today I saw this:
http://www.bcmcom.com/bcm_product_MX3150N.htm

A little offtopic to introduce myself: I am also a fan of low-power computing, currently posting from Gigabyte J1900 motherboard and hoping soon to assemble something like a laptop with low-power desktop parts (28A battery and a USB-powered monitor).

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:24 pm

I received the hardware yesterday. I did some tests likes power consumptions which are interesting (10W in idle with a SSD plugged in).

But I'm stuck with a huge problem for me : this board will power my home server. But it won't boot without screen :s
I contacted the technical support. I hope I'll receive a reply...

EDIT : I fixed it : just uncomment GRUB_CMDLINE in the grub config file and run update-grub. Actually, it's a grub + EFI problem, not hardware :)

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:29 pm

Hi everyone,

Here is a small review of the N3150DC-ITX as a server.

List of hardware :
- Case : Cooler Master Elite 110
- N3150DC-ITX (of course)
- 2Gb DDR3 SODIMM
- Samsung 850 EVO (120Gb)
- DVBSky T982 (PCIe Dual TV tuner)
- 2x Seagate desktop 3Tb

I've disabled the onboard audio, serial and parallel ports through the EFI, enabled Aggressive Link Power Management and forced the memory voltage to 1.35V.

On the software side, I've installed OpenMediaVault 2.1 (Debian 7) with the backported linux kernel 3.16. The kernel 4.1 is expected to deliver better power features but it's only available on Debian 8 so I'm waiting...
The DVBSky card is only supported natively with kernel 3.19 so I had to enable it with the DVBSky drivers.

Power measures :
- MB + SDD only : During boot : 12-13W, idle at 10W
- MB + Tuner + HDD : 35W during boot, 28W idle

I've then installed TLP, an advanced utility to enable some power features on linux and forced it to use battery settings :
- MB + Tuner + HDD : 24-25W
When disks stop spinning (after 20 minutes), the power drops to 15W

This is impressive while I consumed 53W at idle with my previous board but this could be better with a newer kernel that support the CPU and GPU natively. This could be also enhanced with NAS-specific HDD but mine only have 1 year, I don't plan to change them at the moment :)

Interesting fact : my previous server was powered by 12V and even if ASRock only talk about the 19V input, the board also support 12V so if you need to replace or upgrade the provided PSU, you can still use an old laptop PSU :)

sschnee
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:58 pm
Location: USA

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by sschnee » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:43 am

Where did you find the N3150dc-tx for sale?

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:14 pm

sschnee wrote:Where did you find the N3150dc-tx for sale?
I bought it in France at ldlc.com

mikecz
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:42 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by mikecz » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:52 am

Is it available in North America? Will it be?
I still can't find it anywhere I looked here.

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:10 pm

I don't
mikecz wrote:Is it available in North America? Will it be?
I still can't find it anywhere I looked here.
Sorry I have no more information, I'm from Belgium...

nocturnal
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 1:52 pm

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by nocturnal » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:11 am

I was told by ASRock it would be available this week at MA Labs and Newegg, and it just showed up today as far as I can tell:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... isNodeId=1

DanceMan
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by DanceMan » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:29 pm

Interesting fact : my previous server was powered by 12V and even if ASRock only talk about the 19V input, the board also support 12V so if you need to replace or upgrade the provided PSU, you can still use an old laptop PSU
Would anyone care to comment on the voltage requirements for both these motherboards with a DC input and the ultracompact desktops sold by Lenovo and HP that use some laptop components and use an external 19V power brick? I have one of the Lenovos, sans power brick and hdd caddy. I've powered it with a universal laptop brick at 19V to check the bios, but no real use tests yet.

mikecz
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:42 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by mikecz » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:24 am

I see it on newegg.com, but not newegg.ca. I still can't find it anywhere I looked in Canada.

lorcap
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:18 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lorcap » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:59 pm

Thank you very much for your interesting post. Your server configuration is very close to what I'm aiming at (I'm going to add a WiFi mini-PCIe card and get rid of my wireless router).
lanac wrote: - 2Gb DDR3 SODIMM
Just to be sure: 1x 2GB or 2x 1GB? The latter delivers better performances but is more power hungry, isn't it?
lanac wrote: - DVBSky T982 (PCIe Dual TV tuner)
My preference goes for TBS6281. Do you know it?
lanac wrote: I've disabled the onboard audio, serial and parallel ports through the EFI, enabled Aggressive Link Power Management and forced the memory voltage to 1.35V.
Great tips I would have missed otherwise.
lanac wrote: I've then installed TLP, an advanced utility to enable some power features on linux and forced it to use battery settings :
TLP, another gem already available for my beloved distribution, Arch Linux!

Did you fine-tuned PCIe parameters? Hopefully, you can switch off the DVB tuner when not recording.
lanac wrote: This could be also enhanced with NAS-specific HDD but mine only have 1 year, I don't plan to change them at the moment :)
Do you think so? Any model?

Personally, I believe NAS-specific HDDs are just commercial bloats. But I may be wrong since I have no experience on it.

QUIET!
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 8:33 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by QUIET! » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:16 pm

NAS specific hard drives are a real thing. For example the WD Red drives kind of split the difference between one of their Enterprise hard drives and a WD green eco drive.

They turn at low RPM for noise and heat considerations but they don't spin down as aggressively as the green and they have some server features thrown in to avoid stuff like sympathetic vibration when you have a bunch of them racked up.

For the slight price premium it does a lot of the things that are good for silent PCs with better reliability than a green drive. If you are building an actual NAS, it would be foolish to use greens and noisy to use blacks (possibly just as foolish too).

SSDs can trump them all but for a lot more $$$.

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:42 am

lorcap wrote:Thank you very much for your interesting post. Your server configuration is very close to what I'm aiming at (I'm going to add a WiFi mini-PCIe card and get rid of my wireless router).
You won't regret it :)
lorcap wrote:
lanac wrote: - 2Gb DDR3 SODIMM
Just to be sure: 1x 2GB or 2x 1GB? The latter delivers better performances but is more power hungry, isn't it?
1 x 2GB for low power. I'll notice no difference between both because I don't need performance.
lorcap wrote:
lanac wrote: - DVBSky T982 (PCIe Dual TV tuner)
My preference goes for TBS6281. Do you know it?
I didn't know it, but if it is compatible with Linux, why not :)
lorcap wrote:
lanac wrote: I've disabled the onboard audio, serial and parallel ports through the EFI, enabled Aggressive Link Power Management and forced the memory voltage to 1.35V.
Great tips I would have missed otherwise.
lorcap wrote:
lanac wrote: I've then installed TLP, an advanced utility to enable some power features on linux and forced it to use battery settings :
TLP, another gem already available for my beloved distribution, Arch Linux!

Did you fine-tuned PCIe parameters? Hopefully, you can switch off the DVB tuner when not recording.
No fine-tuning except I installed Linux 4.1 with Mattew Garret's patches that should save 1-2W at idle but my Wattmeter is not precise enough to notice any difference :(

Precision : I just checked today if ASPM is enabled and it is not, even with pcie_aspm=force at boot... I checked the BIOS and nothing is related to that. There is nothing I can do at the moment :-(
lorcap wrote:
lanac wrote: This could be also enhanced with NAS-specific HDD but mine only have 1 year, I don't plan to change them at the moment :)
Do you think so? Any model?

Personally, I believe NAS-specific HDDs are just commercial bloats. But I may be wrong since I have no experience on it.
I think WD Red are worth the extra $$ for the reasons given by QUIET! :)

Daniel_dawinter
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:40 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by Daniel_dawinter » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:48 am

MSI N3150i ECO

My Amazon Source(in GERMAN): http://www.amazon.de/product-reviews/B0 ... ewpoints=0

System Debian Jessie
Kernel 4.2 with TLP in Powersave Mod
USB disabled, with out Monitor, On the Board are only: Network, PICO PSU and SATA HDD.

With 2.5 WD Blue, Idle = 5.7 Watt
with 2.5 WD Spindown (=SSD?) Idle = 5.1 Watt

lanac
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Braswell motherboards

Post by lanac » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:15 am

Daniel_dawinter wrote:MSI N3150i ECO

My Amazon Source(in GERMAN): http://www.amazon.de/product-reviews/B0 ... ewpoints=0

System Debian Jessie
Kernel 4.2 with TLP in Powersave Mod
USB disabled, with out Monitor, On the Board are only: Network, PICO PSU and SATA HDD.

With 2.5 WD Blue, Idle = 5.7 Watt
with 2.5 WD Spindown (=SSD?) Idle = 5.1 Watt
Interesting, could you tell me if pcie ASPM is enabled on your board (lspcu -vvv to check devices capabilities). On the Asrock board, it is not. I contacted them about this problem, I'm waiting for a reply :-)

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