ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

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dan
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ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by dan » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:03 am

AMD ryzen 8 cores are affordable.

both intel and amd sell 4 cores

issue here is silence and performance
Olle P wrote:My motherboard, Gigabyte B350-Gaming-3, does indeed support underclocking. Not sure about undervolting though.
I think a CPU with fewer (than eight) cores running at higher speed will generally perform better at the same power consumption though.

for the purpose of silent computing

is 4 core higher speed preferable to 8 core lower speed, in terms of responsiveness?, not gaming of course gaming you want higher clock speed

it seems to me amd ryzen 8 cores 16 threads would be more responsive

by responsiveness typical pc running antivirus to web browser mp3 player youtube vids office etc

target 35 or 60 watts

Abula
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by Abula » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:43 pm

An intel i7 can idle close to 15W at 800mhz with not much else running (on windows), but it can jump close to 150W on load using all threads and cores, that not overclocked.

To keep below 65W you are looking into a serverly underclocked and undervolted i7 or something like a pentium/i3. My i7 4770K on my CamMi build usually hangs around 65W having the camara software running, FTP downloading, among other small things, but it can climb up if the cameras start to get activity, but in essence its at 65W most of the time, mine is not undervolted not undercloked, the voltage is adaptive and the clocks change according to the load.

Responsiveness..... personally i dont see the CPU being the responsible, unless you doing so much that you have loaded 100%, but most of your task shouldn't, what will give you the responsiveness is an SSD, i have tried pentiums, i3, i5 and i7, and for basic task, all feel the same once you add an ssd, again thats if you are not loading the cpu and memory past what they are capable.
Last edited by Abula on Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dan
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by dan » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:50 pm

Abula wrote:An intel i7 can idle close to 15W at 800mhz with not much else running (on windows), but it can jump close to 150W on load using all threads and cores, that not overclocked.

To keep below 65W you are looking into a serverly underclocked and undervolted i7 or something like a pentium/i3. My i7 4770K on my CamMi build usually hangs around 65W having the camara software running, FTP downloading, among other small things, but it can climb up if the cameras start to get activity, but in essence its at 65W most of the time, mine is not undervolted not undercloked, thevoltage is adaptive and the clocks change according to the load.

Responsiveness..... personally i dont see the CPU being the responsible, unless you doing so much that you have loaded 100%, but most of your task shouldn't, what will give you the responsiveness is an SSD, i have tried pentiums, i3, i5 and i7, and for basic task, all feel the same once you add an ssd, again thats if you are not loading the cpu and memory past what they are capable.

thanks for sharing this. so what about severely underclocking and undervolitng a ryzen 8-core?

aren't there laptops that do 35 watts well?

Abula
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by Abula » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:03 pm

dan wrote:thanks for sharing this. so what about severely underclocking and undervolitng a ryzen 8-core?
TBH, idk, really never tested an Ryzen CPU, not sure if windows underclocks it, or to what range, the i7 can drop to 15W at idle mostly because how intel allows the CPU to downclock and lower the voltage dynamically, not sure how AMD works, but i dont see why it couldnt be undervolted and underclock, but there are limits, and here the silicone lotery plays a huge part. In the past, sandy bridge used to underclock at 800mhz, but ivy bridge limit was 1600mhz, then haswell and skylake were agian 800mhz, i bet it can be drop lower manually, but i personally never tried, the way intel does it, its good enough for me.
dan wrote:aren't there laptops that do 35 watts well?
Probably, and even lower i would guess with all the U mobile cpus. You can drop even lower on desktop also, there are celerons that can drop close to 12W idle, and atoms that are close to 10W idle. Probably on load on this very low end cpus you wont even hit 35W on load. But remember on laptops you are also powering the monitor, the numbers that im posting are only complete setups but headless or without the monitor and perifericals.

One thing that you should crosscheck is that if you are looking into TDP or Consumption, are different terms all together.

Abula
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by Abula » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:09 pm

Since your thread title goes by
ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence
I just found a video that you might find interesting, Can You PASSIVELY COOL a Ryzen 7 CPU?

dan
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by dan » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:38 pm

oh thanks :)

i guess the real point is for passive cooling silence

do you get by better with 4 cores /8 or 8 cores /16 threads

Abula
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by Abula » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:05 pm

dan wrote:do you get by better with 4 cores /8 or 8 cores /16 threads
That question is for you to answer, really depends on what are you going to do with it, if your software will make use of the 8 cores / 16 threads then that will be better, if not then why spend more on something that you will not use?

dan
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by dan » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:05 pm

Abula wrote:
dan wrote:do you get by better with 4 cores /8 or 8 cores /16 threads
That question is for you to answer, really depends on what are you going to do with it, if your software will make use of the 8 cores / 16 threads then that will be better, if not then why spend more on something that you will not use?
then i guess 4 core 8 T + GPU + nofan LOL.

are there coolers like nofan but lets me keep my PCI slots and compatible with more cases?

i think i want a completely passively fanless built pc

Abula
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by Abula » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:02 pm

dan wrote:then i guess 4 core 8 T + GPU + nofan LOL.
There you go =)
dan wrote:are there coolers like nofan but lets me keep my PCI slots and compatible with more cases?
There is the No-Fan 80 that doesn't go over the 2nd pcie slot, but its not as capable, its a little worst due to the size difference, weather it could cool a Ryzen 7, idk, this is something much harder to do. You do have to understand that either of the NoFan CPU coolers dont have AM4 mounts, the video i showed used a special motherboard that had AM4 and AM3 Mounts, he even had a AM3 backplate from an old 990 motherboard, so its not that easy to fit a NoFan CPU cooler, keep that in mind.

As an alternative, the best passive cooler aside from the NoFan, is the Thermalright HR22, but now there are other versions like the Le Grand Macho, this cooler probably wont be able to go fully fanless with the Ryzen 7 as if you read SPCR Nofan95C review, you will see it cant cool as good, still its one of the best on passive mode, just isn't as capable, but the good news is that with a fan like 147B you should be able to cool the CPU very quietly, probably inaudible (you might need as the video to undervolt). You also need to check with thermalright for the AM4 mounting kit, or nansgaminggear.
dan wrote:i think i want a completely passively fanless built pc
If you want to go fully fanless, your best bet is something like Calycos, it can cool down even high end hardware easily, just it weights a lot and its expensive, but perform very well. Check the following videos,
KitGuru Calyos NSG S0 Fanless Passive ATX chassis and LinusTechTips TRULY Silent Workstation PC with ZERO FANS.

Steacom and HDPlex might have some options but wont be as capable as the Calycos.

Personally i don't think fanless on high end stuff is the route to go, even little airflow makes a ton of difference, we have today very good fans that can be driven to inaudible levels where they can still sustain a PC under temp limits, and still be quiet enough and probably if you chose wisely, inaudible.

dan
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by dan » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:15 pm

oh i don't know if i need high end stuff lol, the usual web browser office vids mp3 maybe occasional vid editing for youtube , occasional gaming

on of my fav experience is reading stuff, reading pdf reading comics text web pages, and have the pc dead silent like as silent as a book. so silent you can't tell it's even on.

to me a perfectly silent pc is jaw dropping experience

i actually have a c2duo that can do this.

i have windows xp on a 4gb gigabyte iram card, and i have usb memory sticks 32 gb or so. on cool days i can turn off fans and it's silent. pure silence. you can hear lcd monitor but otherwise its silent. i can read pdf and comics and its pure silence.

ive never heard of the macho grande what do you think of it

Abula
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by Abula » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:26 pm

dan wrote:ive never heard of the macho grande what do you think of it
Its a good cooler, one of the best, but so are many coolers now a days. If you wish to read more check SPCR Thermalright HR-22 CPU Heatsink review, its practically the same cooler as LeGrandMacho (slight modifications).

dan
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by dan » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:32 pm

Abula wrote:
dan wrote:ive never heard of the macho grande what do you think of it
Its a good cooler, one of the best, but so are many coolers now a days. If you wish to read more check SPCR Thermalright HR-22 CPU Heatsink review, its practically the same cooler as LeGrandMacho (slight modifications).
hi, well does that cooler 1- let me use first two pci slots and
2- use memory that have heat sinks on it?

i'm surprised spcr doesn't have a forum for cooling memory

Abula
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by Abula » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:03 pm

dan wrote:1- let me use first two pci slots
Yes, the HR22 or LeGrandMacho, is asymetrical (not centered) so its will not overlap with the PCIe slots. But remember, the it doesnt have AM4 mount, you need to contact thermalright to ask for it.
dan wrote:2- use memory that have heat sinks on it?
Yes, the cooler installs flush to the CPU socket and grows backward so it shouldn't interfere with the memory. Even the fan should have some space before the memory.
dan wrote:i'm surprised spcr doesn't have a forum for cooling memory
There is no need to cool the memory, most the DDR4 is low voltage, runs at 1.2V/1.35V, now if you overclock it it might need it, but usually DDR4 runs cool enough, i usually recommend standard height memory, i never use tall heatsinks.

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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by dan » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:41 am

Abula wrote:
dan wrote:1- let me use first two pci slots
Yes, the HR22 or LeGrandMacho, is asymetrical (not centered) so its will not overlap with the PCIe slots. But remember, the it doesnt have AM4 mount, you need to contact thermalright to ask for it.
dan wrote:2- use memory that have heat sinks on it?
Yes, the cooler installs flush to the CPU socket and grows backward so it shouldn't interfere with the memory. Even the fan should have some space before the memory.
dan wrote:i'm surprised spcr doesn't have a forum for cooling memory
There is no need to cool the memory, most the DDR4 is low voltage, runs at 1.2V/1.35V, now if you overclock it it might need it, but usually DDR4 runs cool enough, i usually recommend standard height memory, i never use tall heatsinks.
i'm glad we are having this conversation.

i am not planning to buy one now, but in the near future, possibly if and when ryzen apu comes out

hopefully it can drive 4k if not 8k displays

as i understand it it will be 4-core/8t and a gpu

supposedly zen2 and zen 3 will have navi graphics and built on 7nm

i'm sure when that happens the fanless cpu will come out with new mounts.

so nofan may not be a problem then as it required memory without heatsinks

i wish nofan would come out with a model that is intermediate between c80 and c95

nofan doesn't come with fins the way thermalright and pretty much all other heat sinks do.

it seems just to be heat pipes but no fans on those heat pipes

what are your thoughts on nofan just heat pipes no fins vs thermalright heatpipes with fins?

thing is nofan 95 was lab tested by spcr so i can trust it

i'm worried about case compatibility

any thoughts on dual chamber atx cases?

i have some interest also in cases where it is sideways so you can see the motherboard

Abula
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by Abula » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:09 am

dan wrote:i'm sure when that happens the fanless cpu will come out with new mounts.
Im not too sure of that, honestly imo it seems they are more on the way out. Their coolers have become harder to get and more expensive over time. When i bought my NoFan95C was $99, now they are $135 and not many sell them, so i dont have that much hope on seeing a AM4 mount, but who knows, maybe they just released their stuff cheaper at the begining and now they want to make a profit.
dan wrote:i wish nofan would come out with a model that is intermediate between c80 and c95
The C80 was the response out the C95 being too big, the C80 was their cooler to not take PCIe slots, but their cooling area is much smaller and thus its capablity, but you going with APU, im sure C80 will be able to cool it down, as long as you can find a way to mount it.
dan wrote:what are your thoughts on nofan just heat pipes no fins vs thermalright heatpipes with fins?
Coolers are design by engieneers, there is more than one way to do something in life, so are the cooling heatsinks, pipes where not around fron the begining, we usually had direct contact heatsinks, over time with the view of creating bigger coolers and the restrictions of not having a huge chunk of metal on our motherboard because it could break it, then heat pipes and fins appear, giving more area to disipate and an efficient way to travel the heat to them. Now Thermalright follows a more traditional todays design, cooper heatpipes and aluminium fins, NoFan has a very interesting design, they have heat pipes that come from the cpu to the bottom circle of the cooler, then alluminium/cooper things (not sure how to call them) go all over the circle and this are the ones that realy dissipate the heat, its not the same as fins, but works similar and its massive size makes it work
dan wrote:thing is nofan 95 was lab tested by spcr so i can trust it
So is thermalright HR22, and Scythe Ninja4, Kotetsu, among a lot of coolers.
dan wrote:i'm worried about case compatibility
I dont think cases will be much of an issue, unless you are trying to get something pretty small, the cooler is big and goes over components on the motherboard, but its not as tall that wont fit a standard case like R5, and sideways it wont go over, its more that you have to install most things before you mount the motheboard, like the memory, and in my case the fan cables, the case cables, etc. But once you figure it out, it can be used in a lot of cases, still crossecheck the one you finally chose.
dan wrote:any thoughts on dual chamber atx cases?
As most cases, they work, i just did a build on a Corsair 740 (SimMi signature), and it has a chamber for the PSU and another for the rest fo the components, to me they are much easier to work with, with little effort you get great cable management where it matters, as long as you have the extra space they require its a good case overall, but certainly there are other options that should end up quieter since you probably dont need as much cooling with the APU.

dan
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by dan » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:27 am

Abula wrote:
dan wrote:i'm sure when that happens the fanless cpu will come out with new mounts.
Im not too sure of that, honestly imo it seems they are more on the way out. Their coolers have become harder to get and more expensive over time. When i bought my NoFan95C was $99, now they are $135 and not many sell them, so i dont have that much hope on seeing a AM4 mount, but who knows, maybe they just released their stuff cheaper at the begining and now they want to make a profit.
dan wrote:i wish nofan would come out with a model that is intermediate between c80 and c95
The C80 was the response out the C95 being too big, the C80 was their cooler to not take PCIe slots, but their cooling area is much smaller and thus its capablity, but you going with APU, im sure C80 will be able to cool it down, as long as you can find a way to mount it.
dan wrote:what are your thoughts on nofan just heat pipes no fins vs thermalright heatpipes with fins?
Coolers are design by engieneers, there is more than one way to do something in life, so are the cooling heatsinks, pipes where not around fron the begining, we usually had direct contact heatsinks, over time with the view of creating bigger coolers and the restrictions of not having a huge chunk of metal on our motherboard because it could break it, then heat pipes and fins appear, giving more area to disipate and an efficient way to travel the heat to them. Now Thermalright follows a more traditional todays design, cooper heatpipes and aluminium fins, NoFan has a very interesting design, they have heat pipes that come from the cpu to the bottom circle of the cooler, then alluminium/cooper things (not sure how to call them) go all over the circle and this are the ones that realy dissipate the heat, its not the same as fins, but works similar and its massive size makes it work
dan wrote:thing is nofan 95 was lab tested by spcr so i can trust it
So is thermalright HR22, and Scythe Ninja4, Kotetsu, among a lot of coolers.
dan wrote:i'm worried about case compatibility
I dont think cases will be much of an issue, unless you are trying to get something pretty small, the cooler is big and goes over components on the motherboard, but its not as tall that wont fit a standard case like R5, and sideways it wont go over, its more that you have to install most things before you mount the motheboard, like the memory, and in my case the fan cables, the case cables, etc. But once you figure it out, it can be used in a lot of cases, still crossecheck the one you finally chose.
dan wrote:any thoughts on dual chamber atx cases?
As most cases, they work, i just did a build on a Corsair 740 (SimMi signature), and it has a chamber for the PSU and another for the rest fo the components, to me they are much easier to work with, with little effort you get great cable management where it matters, as long as you have the extra space they require its a good case overall, but certainly there are other options that should end up quieter since you probably dont need as much cooling with the APU.
i was originally going to make separate posts but since you're here, why not ?

coolermaster sells vapor chamber cooling, which as i understand is a super sized heat pipe. the bigger the better when it comes to cooling.

i'm surprised it seems only coolmaster sells DIY Vapor Chambers
do they perform better than standard 6mm heat pipes nofan and thermalright use?

perhaps at some point in the future coolmaster or nofan or thermalright will offer
a vapor chamber cooling fanless, but hopefully small enough so the pci-e slots and standard dual chamber cases will work

as for dual-chamber i think i want a seasonic fanless, and the instructions say the vents must be up, but the dual chamber i have seen require a sideways mount for PSU so i'm unclear how the heat will vent.


remember the mac cube? i think with a seasonic fanless and nofan or thermalright and possibly dual chamber you could create an ATX version of it.

one with 4-8 core ryzen ssd storage w/ 7mm 2tb 2.5" HD

Abula
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by Abula » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:37 am

I think you might be overthinking it too much, an AMD Apu / Ryzen3 will be much easier to cool, you might be fine with something like steacom and hdplex, they offer pretty good passive cooling cases more oriented for htpc, I feel the PC you are building will work out fine on those cases.

dan
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Re: ryzen 4 cores vs 8 cores silence

Post by dan » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:01 pm

Abula wrote:I think you might be overthinking it too much, an AMD Apu / Ryzen3 will be much easier to cool, you might be fine with something like steacom and hdplex, they offer pretty good passive cooling cases more oriented for htpc, I feel the PC you are building will work out fine on those cases.
i agree with this. i'm thinking 4 c/8t w/ gpu apu ryzen. i would prefer passive cooling, but if it does use a fan, then a really big heat pipe cooler combined with a silent fan. fanless seasonic PSU.
i think i want the case to be fanless like the mac g4 cube, a chimney type system with vents on top
but i prefer atx cases, more options and expension

any recommendation?

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