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 Post subject: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:22 am 
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I currently use Pentium G3240 (3.1GHz, 2C, L3:3M, GT1, 53W, rev.C0).
Assuming I replace it with Core i5-4460T (1.9GHz, 4C, L3:6M, 35W, rev.C0), will my PC be faster or slower?
It seems that i5-4460T uses less power than G3240.


Last edited by Matthew Wai on Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:36 am 
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Faster at multi threaded tasks, perhaps a bit slower at single thread stuff. Power consumption would be about the same I think. Cheap dual core vs. T-branded chip usually shows the disparity between stated TDP and power consumption in real life.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:44 am 
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Vicotnik wrote:
Power consumption would be about the same I think.
https://outervision.com/b/aKHCZP (With Core i5-4460T, the total is 219 W.)
https://outervision.com/b/gzraXi (With Pentium G3240, the total is 237 W.)
Are the results accurate?

Vicotnik wrote:
Cheap dual core vs. T-branded chip usually shows the disparity between stated TDP and power consumption in real life.
What is a T-branded chip?

P.S. I just found Xeon E3-1230L V3 (1.8GHz, 4C, HT, L3:8M, 25W, rev.C0), whose power consumption may be even lower.


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:36 am 
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What is it you are trying to do? :)

Do you want something less power hungry than the G3240? If it gets too hot, or if you want to lower the power consumption (at load) you could try underclocking it.

Matthew Wai wrote:
https://outervision.com/b/aKHCZP (With Core i5-4460T, the total is 219 W.)
https://outervision.com/b/gzraXi (With Pentium G3240, the total is 237 W.)
Are the results accurate?

No. :) Online PSU calculators are not very useful.

Matthew Wai wrote:
What is a T-branded chip?

P.S. I just found Xeon E3-1230L V3 (1.8GHz, 4C, HT, L3:8M, 25W, rev.C0), whose power consumption may be even lower.

A T-branded chip is a factory underclocked part. At full load, it will draw less power than the non T-part and that can be useful in some specific situations. My point was that despite the difference in official TDP, the real difference will not be much.

Yeah, that Xeon is sweet. Not cheap though.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:40 am 
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Vicotnik wrote:
What is it you are trying to do?

I am just wondering about the following and may not take any action.
My SilverStone 300W PSU works fine with a dual-core CPU. Does 300W suffice for a quad-core CPU if I want my PC faster?


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:40 am 
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Matthew Wai wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
What is it you are trying to do?

I am just wondering about the following and may not take any action.
My SilverStone 300W PSU works fine with a dual-core CPU. Does 300W suffice for a quad-core CPU if I want my PC faster?
It should, but depends on the rest of components, i run a i7 4770K with a picoPSU 150XT with a 150W brick for 3 years 24/7 no issues. So its very likely you can run almost any quad core with the 300W PSU, again depends on the rest of components but its very likely that you will be able to.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:16 pm 
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Matthew Wai wrote:
I am just wondering about the following and may not take any action.
My SilverStone 300W PSU works fine with a dual-core CPU. Does 300W suffice for a quad-core CPU if I want my PC faster?

As Abula said, there should be no problems.

Try to get hold of a power meter, a cheap Kill-a-Watt type should give you an estimate of your current power draw. Unless you have a power hungry graphics card or something you should have plenty of headroom.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:22 am 
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For example, Core i5-4430 (3.0GHz, 4C, L3:6M, GT2, 84W, rev.C0).
https://outervision.com/b/9jNVWu (Recommended PSU Wattage: 319 W)
Does my 300W PSU suffice? A team member on another forum advised me to use this calculator. Should I ignore his advice?


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:42 am 
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Matthew Wai wrote:
another forum advised me to use this calculator. Should I ignore his advice?

Yes.

Here's an easy and conservative way to calculate your stressed power load:
CPU TDP + GPU TDP (if using discrete gfx card) + 30-50W (for motherboard + fans + SSD + 1 to 2 HDDs) + power use of any other PCIe cards.

Add those up and then look for a PSU that's quiet in that load range.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:50 am 
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"I thought there was a prevailing opinion here at the forums that Extreme Outervision over-estimates power requirements."—quoted from another forum.

Do you share this opinion?


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:16 am 
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Does it overestimate? Yes.

Is it useful? Not so much.

From a SPCR point of view, it really comes down to answering this question: How do I size the PSU for quiet/silent operation?

The simple method I used above will do the job.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:55 am 
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http://www.buildcomputers.net/pc-power- ... ments.html
http://www.buildcomputers.net/power-con ... nents.html
http://ark.intel.com/products/88185/
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/int ... 18-13.html
http://www.s-box.biz/en/rotipkovnicezicane

I have read the above and then calculated the following:

Core i5-6400 (quad-core)=65 W
H110M-E (a mid-end motherboard)=40 W
A DVD-RW drive=27 W
A 7200RPM 3.5-inch HDD=9 W
2 × 4 GB DDR4=3.04 W
A keyboard plus mouse=1 W
2 × 8 cm fan plus 2 × 6 cm fan=15 W (the result from voltage times current)

The total consumption is 160.04 W. Is it accurate?


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:27 am 
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Yes, that's a reasonable figure. A bit high perhaps, the motherboard is not 40W I think, the DVD perhaps not 27W. What's worrying me is the fans. ;) 80mm and 60mm fans will often make noise while moving meaningful amounts of air. What case will you be using?

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:11 pm 
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I would have gone with 65W (CPU) + 30-50W for everything else = 95-115W.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:43 am 
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Vicotnik wrote:
the motherboard is not 40W I think
Is ASUS H110M-E a low- or mid-end motherboard? What do you think the consumption should be?
Vicotnik wrote:
the DVD perhaps not 27W
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rkwAAOSwPsBa~CIS/s-l1600.jpg
It says "5 V/12 V = 1.5 A/2.0 A". Should the highest consumption be 12V × 2.0A=24 W?
Vicotnik wrote:
What's worrying me is the fans. ;) 80mm and 60mm fans will often make noise while moving meaningful amounts of air.
Don't worry; the actual noise is totally acceptable to me. It would take a paragraph to explain why.
Vicotnik wrote:
What case will you be using?
I am now using GTR H305 Micro SFX. See below:
http://gtr.com.hk/case/fadeout/micro_sf ... master.htm
http://www.qk123.com/2014/05/83977/

Another question: I have two USB hubs and seven USB devices. If a USB910 connector is connected to an I/O card with two USB ports connected to the hubs connected with the devices, and all devices work properly, can I assume that their total consumption does not exceed 2.5 W?


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:03 am 
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Matthew Wai wrote:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rkwAAOSwPsBa~CIS/s-l1600.jpg
It says "5 V/12 V = 1.5 A/2.0 A". Should the highest consumption be 12V × 2.0A=24 W?

No, the power requirements are 5V 1.5A and 12V 2.0A. That's worst case, with a good margin to be sure, and the drive will not ever draw that much in real life. When the drive isn't in use it will draw 1W or less. So seldom do I use optical these days, that I've switched to a USB powered exernal drive.

I don't get what number you are looking for. If you want highest power, that means that you do everything at once. You burn a DVD at full speed while at the same time running Prime95 and torture testing the HDD and graphics, and also memory. All at once. Then I'd say you get close to the figure Steve suggested above. 65W (CPU) + 30-50W for everything else = 95-115W.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 pm 
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Vicotnik wrote:
No, the power requirements are 5V 1.5A and 12V 2.0A.
5V × 1.5A + 12V × 2.0A = 31.5 W.
That is the highest consumption, which is not very likely in real life. Am I right?
Vicotnik wrote:
If you want highest power, that means that you do everything at once.
I want the highest power, out of interest and for safety.


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:52 pm 
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Vicotnik wrote:
... You burn a DVD at full speed while at the same time running Prime95 and torture testing the HDD and graphics, and also memory. All at once. ...
And of course this will be as good as impossible to do in reality, since the tasks will need to share the resources and that will reduce the overall load.


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:03 am 
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Matthew Wai wrote:
5V × 1.5A + 12V × 2.0A = 31.5 W.
That is the highest consumption, which is not very likely in real life. Am I right?

What it says about power consumption is indirectly. The power requirements are stated. So we can conclude that the device should not draw more than that. But it says nothing about the actual power consumption, either maximum or typical.

Matthew Wai wrote:
I want the highest power, out of interest and for safety.

You want to know how much power the system will draw, worst case. So that you can choose a PSU accordingly? Or is it heat, you want things to stay cool enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:20 am 
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Vicotnik wrote:
You want to know how much power the system will draw, worst case. So that you can choose a PSU accordingly?
I bought a 300W PSU last month. I want to know what components altogether it can work for.

Image

Online information shows that each USB header (shown above) supports two USB ports.
Does each of the two ports provide 5V × 0.5A = 2.5W? Or do they share the 2.5W from one USB header?


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:57 am 
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It's 500mA per port.

And SilverStone make decent stuff. That 300W unit will be more than enough, unless it's ancient with weak +12V rail. Usually it's the other way around when building a low power system; you end up with a overpowered power supply because there simply is no market for very low power stuff. The picoPSU is what I like to use for my low power systems.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:12 pm 
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Vicotnik wrote:
It's 500mA per port.

My USB1112 header is connected with two ports. I just did the following test:

1. I plugged an HDD into port 2 when port 1 was charging a phone.
2. The HDD did not start spinning.
3. I unplugged the phone.
4. The HDD started spinning.

As each port provides 500mA, how would you explain the above?


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:47 am 
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Interesting. 500mA is just the USB specification. How it works in the real world depends on a lot of stuff. I'm guessing both ports can deliver 500mA just fine but the drive needs a bit more while spinning up. The +5V and ground for both these ports are the same. There's resistance in the traces and the cables and there's a limit on how much you can load there. There are cheap small USB meters, I have a couple from eBay. You connect it in series before the load and you can see how much you are pulling.

The cables matter in my experience. I want a good short cable from one of the back ports. Using the onboard headers and the front ports is convenient but if power delivery is important, use the back ports if you can. And while I have little experience with USB hubs, I hear the powered ones are preferred to avoid power issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:50 am 
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Vicotnik wrote:
I'm guessing both ports can deliver 500mA just fine but the drive needs a bit more while spinning up.
If it needed more than 500mA, it would not spin up using a back port, which presumably provides no more than 500mA. However, it does spin up using a back port. My guess is that the said USB1112 header provides a bit less than 1000mA altogether for the two ports, and charging the phone uses the maximum 500mA available in one port (while the charger says "5V 2A") .

Also, Google found this: http://www.maikel.pro/blog/en-setting-u ... ring-them/
It says WD My Passport takes 500mA at startup. I use WD My Passport Essential.

Vicotnik wrote:
the motherboard is not 40W I think
You are right. I found that H110M is a low-end motherboard, which needs 25W.


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:05 am 
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My USB910 header is directly connected with two ports without an I/O card. I just plugged the HDD into port 2 when port 1 was charging the phone. The HDD did not spin up initially but spun up after a while, so I think the problem with USB1112 lies in this front panel I/O card, which probably causes a little resistance, the culprit.


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:42 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Matthew Wai wrote:
another forum advised me to use this calculator. Should I ignore his advice?

Yes.

Here's an easy and conservative way to calculate your stressed power load:
CPU TDP + GPU TDP (if using discrete gfx card) + 30-50W (for motherboard + fans + SSD + 1 to 2 HDDs) + power use of any other PCIe cards.

Add those up and then look for a PSU that's quiet in that load range.


An Intel CPU can draw a lot more power than it's rated TDP, especially when using AVX or AVX2. So I think that max peak power usage should be taken into consideration, even though those load are rare.

I have an i7-4770T with a TDP of 45W and here are some reported CPU Package Power from HWInfo, using Prime95 torture test small FFT:

Prime95 v26.6 (no AVX): 44w
Prime95 v27.9 (with AVX): 61W
Prime95 v29.4 (with AVX2/FMA3): 69W


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:20 am 
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blankus wrote:
[...] when using AVX or AVX2.
As a computer idiot, I know nothing about them and will probably never use them.

blankus wrote:
An Intel CPU can draw a lot more power than it's rated TDP
As an ordinary home user, I can't think of a situation where I will use a CPU that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:41 am 
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Matthew Wai wrote:
blankus wrote:
[...] when using AVX or AVX2.
As a computer idiot, I know nothing about them and will probably never use them.
In case you want to understand the basics of AVX,
Quote:
AVX are extensions to the x86 instruction set architecture for microprocessors from Intel and AMD proposed by Intel in March 2008. AVX provides new features, new instructions and a new coding scheme.
AVX was introduced around the Sandy bridge era, AVX2 with Haswell.

Essentially its a feature of CPUs, some new programs do use them, usually the power draw is higher, and in most cases the CPU heat up more, thus most mothebroards now a days also have offsets for this kind of operation.

But really depends on what programs are you running.

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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:55 am
Posts: 14
Matthew Wai wrote:
blankus wrote:
[...] when using AVX or AVX2.
As a computer idiot, I know nothing about them and will probably never use them.

blankus wrote:
An Intel CPU can draw a lot more power than it's rated TDP
As an ordinary home user, I can't think of a situation where I will use a CPU that way.


I'm very sorry if I gave you the impression that you are "computer idiot" for that was not my intention at all. English is not my mother tongue.

The AVX/AVX2 instructions are used in some software to improve performance. The Prime95 torture test is far from common usage but useful for stability and temperature test, for me at least. My opinion is that for Intel CPU one should think of TDP more as a lower limit than upper limit when building a PC.

Here is a forum thread from last year (anandtech) where a user ask for common software using AVX: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/what-common-desktop-applications-are-using-avx-and-avx2.2498660/

Added test as an example of what I use Prime95 for: Optimize for acceptable noise, performance and power usage.

My main PC has a i7-4770K with a TDP of 84W, that is overclocked. Here are some reported CPU Package Power from HWInfo, using Prime95 torture test small FFT:

Prime95 v26.6 (no AVX): 82w
Prime95 v27.9 (with AVX): 100W
Prime95 v29.4 (with AVX2/FMA3): 110W

None of my work load approaches 110W, but is still a worst case. Gaming is about 60-70W.

Edit: Added example and clarification.


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 Post subject: Re: Which is faster, dual-core G3240 or quad-core i5-4460T?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:20 am 
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Abula wrote:
AVX was introduced around the Sandy bridge era, AVX2 with Haswell.

Essentially its a feature of CPUs, some new programs do use them, usually the power draw is higher, and in most cases the CPU heat up more
Is the "heating up more" reflected in TDP? If so, it is indicative of power draw.

blankus wrote:
I'm very sorry if I gave you the impression that you are "computer idiot" for that was not my intention at all. English is not my mother tongue.
Take it easy. I was just kidding. English is not my mother tongue either. That said, computer idiots abound; being one of them is not a shame.

blankus wrote:
None of my work load approaches 110W, but is still a worst case. Gaming is about 60-70W.
I never play games, not to mention putting my PC in a worst case, which can safely be overlooked in my case.

blankus wrote:
An Intel CPU can draw a lot more power than it's rated TDP, especially when using AVX or AVX2. So I think that max peak power usage should be taken into consideration, even though those load are rare.
As those loads are rare, I would simply ignore them.
As an average user who keeps the PC under normal/regular use, I would accept the following:

"Normally the TDP is, on average, also a good metric for power consumption values."—quoted from http://www.anandtech.com/show/11839/int ... -review/14
"The Thermal Design Power or TDP in short, is the maximum power consumed by a device (graphics card for example) under normal / regular use."—quoted from http://www.geeks3d.com/20090611/tutoria ... power-tdp/
"With DESKTOP components, power draw is usually close to or a bit less than TDP, rarely over."—quoted from http://www.overclock.net/forum/31-power ... st19115406


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