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 Post subject: Explanation of why this forum doesn't like T series cpus?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:36 am
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Hi,
I have read a few posts here showing that the established members of this forum don't like the low power T series chips and seem to think they are a con. I am not an expert and don't understand why? Take for example an i7 4790t 4 core 8 thread with a stated tdp of 45w, why is it not recommended over a standard non lower power i7? Is it because it goes above 45w or its performance is awful for the price? My use would be for mid range gaming. Would it not be much easier to cool inaudibly? Thanks very much. (Also, I lack the ability to undervolt or underclock).


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 Post subject: Re: Explanation of why this forum doesn't like T series cpus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
TDP is a measurement that only is kinda true when all intel specs are followed but even intel don't enforce, as they want to see their chips beating the competence by performing better. My 9900K is a 95W chip.... that goes into 150W easily without any Overclocking, simply with the turbo boost.

Today CPUs are not the same as they were back then, specially with turbo boost, more clocks usually is followed by more voltage, but they kinda sustain it like until certain thermal conditions are violated. To me its very confusing, because you also have time constraints into this boosts, then you also have single core, dual core, quad core boosts... and so on, so the TPD standard is kinda viloated by motherboard manufacturers and kinda by intel also. Things like Multicore enhancement come to break this rules and make the turbo boost clocks for single core go into all cores all the time, thus is not the same cpu anymore, and the thing go on and on. But this is just part of the answer, as you are wishing to go with lower tpd chip, but this is artificially done, its not that your silicone was the best to run under lower voltages, its more intel is artificially restricting the clocks thus limiting the tdp. Going a little off topic, the best silicone is saved for the most expensive CPUs, what the community calls binned cpus, usually the ones that can go higher in clocks, all the cpus that cant go that high can go into "T" chips, since they are not going to be allowed to go into high stressful voltages/clocks, most of the times if you check a standard chip and T chip they will have the same voltages under the same clocks, its not that they are running lower voltage, is simply they are running lower voltage because they are running lower clocks.

Again T chips are not magical chips, simply factory restricted chips, you can achieve this even by limiting on windows the clocks you allow the chip to go (under the power management). The only reason that to me its worth it to get a T chip is if you want a low profile cooler and not willing to buy an aftermarket cooler, the rest of the time you are getting a chip that could have run faster but its simply restrain by factory. To me T chips would be worth it if they were cheaper, as intel is selling you something that dont perform as well as their standard chip, its like buying a BMW 330 but with 1600 motor so you save on gas.

My recommendation is go with 4790K and send it to a delider, in my personal experience i have drooped 15C on load on 8700k, it ends up quieter because you don't need as much cooling and its much faster than a T chip. But its up to you, if you feel the chip is correct to your conditions and you cant run a standard none T chip, go for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Explanation of why this forum doesn't like T series cpus
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:33 am 
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Still, T chips can "save on gas", but not much and not always.


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 Post subject: Re: Explanation of why this forum doesn't like T series cpus
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:50 am 
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They are good for specific uses. I got a Sandy Bridge i3-2100T once and the reason for that was first that it was on sale and second that I was limited on the PSU side (60W power brick, lots of HDDs) and no ideal way to manually underclock. Performance wise it was overkill anyway for my use case.

What bothers me is when people actually think that these chips are special. They are not. They are factory restricted chips like Abula says.

Why not i7-4790T 4 core 8 thread with a stated TDP of 45W, why is it not recommended over a standard non lower power i7? My answer would be that you get an i7 for the performance. I've never found them worth the money myself. If you don't need i7 performance, why not get a Celeron/Pentium/i3/i5 instead?

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 Post subject: Re: Explanation of why this forum doesn't like T series cpus
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:39 am
Posts: 69
Abula wrote:
TDP is a measurement that only is kinda true when all intel specs are followed but even intel don't enforce, as they want to see their chips beating the competence by performing better. My 9900K is a 95W chip.... that goes into 150W easily without any Overclocking, simply with the turbo boost.

Today CPUs are not the same as they were back then, specially with turbo boost, more clocks usually is followed by more voltage, but they kinda sustain it like until certain thermal conditions are violated. To me its very confusing, because you also have time constraints into this boosts, then you also have single core, dual core, quad core boosts... and so on, so the TPD standard is kinda viloated by motherboard manufacturers and kinda by intel also. Things like Multicore enhancement come to break this rules and make the turbo boost clocks for single core go into all cores all the time, thus is not the same cpu anymore, and the thing go on and on. But this is just part of the answer, as you are wishing to go with lower tpd chip, but this is artificially done, its not that your silicone was the best to run under lower voltages, its more intel is artificially restricting the clocks thus limiting the tdp. Going a little off topic, the best silicone is saved for the most expensive CPUs, what the community calls binned cpus, usually the ones that can go higher in clocks, all the cpus that cant go that high can go into "T" chips, since they are not going to be allowed to go into high stressful voltages/clocks, most of the times if you check a standard chip and T chip they will have the same voltages under the same clocks, its not that they are running lower voltage, is simply they are running lower voltage because they are running lower clocks.

Again T chips are not magical chips, simply factory restricted chips, you can achieve this even by limiting on windows the clocks you allow the chip to go (under the power management). The only reason that to me its worth it to get a T chip is if you want a low profile cooler and not willing to buy an aftermarket cooler, the rest of the time you are getting a chip that could have run faster but its simply restrain by factory. To me T chips would be worth it if they were cheaper, as intel is selling you something that dont perform as well as their standard chip, its like buying a BMW 330 but with 1600 motor so you save on gas.

My recommendation is go with 4790K and send it to a delider, in my personal experience i have drooped 15C on load on 8700k, it ends up quieter because you don't need as much cooling and its much faster than a T chip. But its up to you, if you feel the chip is correct to your conditions and you cant run a standard none T chip, go for it.


Ironically BMW E36 325i's had the same engine as 330i's but a different inlet manifold, that restricted the power output but used the same fuel, emissions and tax :P


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