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 Post subject: Looking to build a whs (large media server) with low power
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:32 am 
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At the moment I have a htpc with about 4tb worth of harddrives. I want to setup a media server now that can be accessed by the htpc aswell all the other laptops and pc's in the house. So am looking at getting windows home server as well as more 1tb harddrives so that I have 8 in total, allowing me to have 4tb of data.

At the moment the most important things to get are:

a processor that can handle streaming data no problem and is low wattage
power supply that can connect to at least 9 harddrives
a motherboard that will connect to as many harddrives as possible (i'll get a sata pci card if need more sata connections)


server will be used for file storage, streaming music, streaming xvid, streaming hd mkv

So i'm going to have at least 8*1tb sata harddrives plus another harddrive to install windows home server on. So it's not going to be exactly eco-friendly but I hoping that the other parts use as low power as possible and still be able to what I want the server to do.


If anyone has any recommendations as to what processor, motherboard and psu i should get in this case, it would be appreciated!



So atm I have the following added to my cart in uk site ebuyer:


Startech 4 Port PCI Serial ATA (SATA) Storage controller Raid 0 1 - Card £33.98
Corsair 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL5 Heat Spreader £31.68
Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H 780G Socket AM2+ onboard graphics 8 channel audio ATX Motherboard £66.05
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 Energy Efficient 1MB L2 Cache Retail Boxed Processor £46.36
Antec 300 Three Hundred Case - No PSU £44.99
Samsung SpinPoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB Hard Drive SATAII *32MB Cache* - OEM x2 147.11
Microsoft Windows Home Server w/Power Pack 1 £78.69
Seagate ST31500341AS 1.5TB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 32MB Cache - OEM x2 £218.23
Corsair 520W HX Series Modular PSU - ATX12V v2.2 APFC £72.85


Any recommendations on what i should keep/change?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:53 am 
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I'd read up on that 1.5 TB Seagate if I were you. People were reporting problems with those drives around November. Don't know if the problems were fixed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:55 am 
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ye i added those 1.5tb drives at the last minute (had 3 more 1tb drives so I'll go back to them)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:57 pm 
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/article859-page5.html
Though Gigabyte 780G is a good motherboard, Gigabyte 740G would be more energy efficient and cheap under your cirsumstance.

As for HDD, WD 1TB Green series such as 10EACS looks to be a perfect target for you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:57 am 
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cheers i wasnt sure if matx motherboards worked ok in full atx case so I just went for a full atx board. But after your reply and a little googling i see an matx will be fine with the antec 300.

So at the moment my cart has:

Corsair 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL5 Heat Spreader
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 Energy Efficient 1MB L2 Cache Retail Boxed Processor
Antec 300 Three Hundred Case - No PSU
Samsung SpinPoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB Hard Drive SATAII *32MB Cache* - OEM x5
Microsoft Windows Home Server w/Power Pack 1
Corsair 400W CX PSU - 12cm DBB Fan 80%Plus Certified Efficiency
Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2H 740G Socket AM2 onboard VGA 8 channel audio mATX Motherboard
StarTech Metal 3.5" to 5.25" Drive Brackets 10 Pack (to use harddrives in the 5.25" slots)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:03 am 
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If you have your OS spin the harddrivs down when they're not used, you'll save quite some watts with ~10 harddrives.

Other than that, looks fine to me. You can always get cable splitters, if you need more SATA connectors. Antoher thing. I don't think you can actually connect SATA 10 harddrives to the motherboard. So you probably need a PCI(-E) SATA controller as well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:25 am 
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Location: Michigan
moontan wrote:
a processor that can handle streaming data no problem and is low wattage

If anyone has any recommendations as to what processor, motherboard and psu i AMD

Athlon 64 X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 Energy Efficient 1MB L2 Cache Retail Boxed Processor £46.36

I think you would be fine with a single core processor like the Sempron LE-1250. Underclocked to 1.6GHz and undervolted to the max you'll be at <25W for CPU/motherboard/RAM. The 4850e will use twice the power of the Sempron.

loimlo wrote:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article859-page5.html
Though Gigabyte 780G is a good motherboard, Gigabyte 740G would be more energy efficient and cheap under your cirsumstance.

The northbridge change from 740G to 780G won't make a power difference unless you place a 3D workload on them. Both idle <1W. If there is the remotest possibility you'll play a 3D game or HD video on your file server you'll want the 780G version.

The 4 phase VRM on the GA-MA74GM-S2H will be somewhat inefficient with low wattage CPUs. Ideally you would want fewer VRM phase for more efficiency. There are plenty of 3 phase VRM 780G/780V/740G motherboards (look for ones that don't support high wattage CPUs.) I wouldn't ignore the Geforce 8x00 motherboards either.

You might also want to consider a board with 4 DIMM slots although that probably adds some power load too (<1W).

My Foxconn 740G and 780G motherboards have been great, but neither meets these requirements (A7GM-S - 5-phase VRM, A74MX-K - only 4 SATA).


Last edited by QuietOC on Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:48 am 
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Your processor is definitely fast enough. I'm running an AMD 4600+ on my server (2.4Ghz), and I'm able to stream HD content to 2 HTPC's at the same time plus still run a small family web server, torrents, and more on the computer at the same time. I'm not familiar with WHS; I'm running Linux.
I'm using 14 1Tb green power drives in a software RAID 6 for 12TB of space and they are certainly not a bottleneck.
I recommend to make sure that your whole network in gigabit. I'm running dual gigabit out of the server and 1 gigabit line to each HTPC.
Oh, and all this runs on an Earthwatts 380 PS with a Nexus fan swap. I've been running like this for over a year with no problems. Green power drives use so little power.
The computer is certainly not silent, but it is quiet enough considering. It is about equal in noise to a modern of the shelf computer.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:10 am 
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Not to knowledgeable on motherboards tbh, so all I have done is search 740g/780g on ebuyer.com ( I want to order everything from there due to the euro nearly being on parity with the sterling :) ). If anyone knows if any better motherboard on that site let me know. I need at least 6 sata connections on the motherboard.

Will the Sempron Le-120 be ok for simultaneous streaming? (For example one person could be streaming a HD mkv, another could be streaming an xvid, and another person could be watching a HD satellite receiver but recording to the server (dreambox HD satellite receiver)). And sabnzbd could be downloading something at the same time!



If so my cart atm is:

Corsair 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL5 Lifetime Warranty
AMD Sempron LE-1250 Socket AM2 L2 512KB 2.2GHz Energy Efficient 45w Retail Boxed Processor
Antec 300 Three Hundred Case - No PSU
Western Digital 1TB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm - OEM Green Power x5
Microsoft Windows Home Server w/Power Pack 1
Corsair 400W CX PSU - 12cm DBB Fan 80%Plus Certified Efficiency
Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2H 740G Socket AM2 onboard VGA 8 channel audio mATX Motherboard
StarTech Metal 3.5" to 5.25" Drive Brackets 10 Pack (to use harddrives in the 5.25" slots)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:43 am 
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Location: Michigan
moontan wrote:
Will the Sempron Le-120 be ok for simultaneous streaming? (For example one person could be streaming a HD mkv, another could be streaming an xvid, and another person could be watching a HD satellite receiver but recording to the server (dreambox HD satellite receiver)). And sabnzbd could be downloading something at the same time!

I think the way to answer that is to point you to how much CPU load file operations like that take:

Image
Image

Actually the SB700 isn't great at file serving, which is another reason to consider a Geforce 8x00 motherboard. nVidia pretty much has the best SATA performance. The Sempron will be fine, IMHO.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:02 am 
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Location: Forkbomb, New South Wales
Either allocate $300 for a decent card or get a motherboard with more ports. That RAID controller won't do much for performance aside from adding ports.

If you do go that route, I would suggest an Intel G33 or P45 chipset motherboard, with an E1200 CPU. If you insist on using a deadweight controller card, then at least get a Silicon Image based controller.

I'd stay far, far away from WD GreenPower Drives as well as the latest Seagate offerings- both of them have serious design flaws for light server use, like maxing out their park counts very rapidly.

As for AMD based boards, I'd avoid those as well. First off, you don't need the IGP boost for WHS. More importantly, AMD/ATI drivers are pure, unadulterated crap. AMD recently laid off everyone involved in driver testing and are planning on outsourcing it to contractors when they re-establish testing sometime real soon now.


Last edited by fri2219 on Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:03 am 
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do you have a rough idea what sort of wattage at idle/load I should expect with the items I have listed above? with 3 Samsung F1 1tb harddrives, 1 750gb Samsung harddrive and a 4 port sata pci card added.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:14 am 
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Location: Michigan
fri2219 wrote:
If you do go that route, I would suggest an Intel G33 or P45 chipset motherboard, with an E1200 CPU.

That would be considerably higher power. >50W idle. Did the OP mention using RAID?
Quote:
I'd stay far, far away... AMD & Nvidia chipsets.... you don't need the IGP boost for WHS either.

Sure, WHS doesn't need a 740G even. Unforunately all Intel has is crappy high power chipsets. The G33/P35/Q33/Q35 is the best garbage they have, and it is really worthless from power/performance perspective. Their southbridges are nice. I could see an Atom based file server trouncing the AMD one for perfromance/Watt, but as far as I know nothing like that is even availlable.

You could go Celeron 4x0 + G33/Q35 + ICH9DO/R, but it is not all that low power or even cheap. I don't see what the E1200 gets you but more heat. I don't think the E5200 is reasonable either.


Last edited by QuietOC on Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:28 am 
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Location: Formosa
QuietOC wrote:
loimlo wrote:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article859-page5.html
Though Gigabyte 780G is a good motherboard, Gigabyte 740G would be more energy efficient and cheap under your cirsumstance.

The northbridge change from 740G to 780G won't make a power difference unless you place a 3D workload on them. Both idle <1W. If there is the remotest possibility you'll play a 3D game or HD video on your file server you'll want the 780G version.

The 4 phase VRM on the GA-MA74GM-S2H will be somewhat inefficient with low wattage CPUs. Ideally you would want fewer VRM phase for more efficiency. There are plenty of 3 phase VRM 780G/780V/740G motherboards (look for ones that don't support high wattage CPUs.) I wouldn't ignore the Geforce 8x00 motherboards either.

You might also want to consider a board with 4 DIMM slots although that probably adds some power load too (<1W).

My Foxconn 740G and 780G motherboards have been great, but neither meets these requirements (A7GM-S - 5-phase VRM, A74MX-K - only 4 SATA).

In my experience, Gigabyte 740G which is 3+1 phase draws less power than ASUS and Gigabyte 780Gs at idle, yet it may have something to do with motherboard design as most quality 780Gs come with 4 phase VRM. Realistically speaking, it's very difficult to guesstimate the power consumption of motherboard due to the variety of motherboard designs. The same chipset from different motherboard manufacturers would differ greatly in this regard. I hope someday motherboard would specify its power consumption. :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:22 pm 
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Location: Michigan
loimlo wrote:
Realistically speaking, it's very difficult to guesstimate the power consumption of motherboard due to the variety of motherboard designs. The same chipset from different motherboard manufacturers would differ greatly in this regard.

I currently have two similar G31 motherboards: one an "Easy Energy Saver" from Gigabyte and the other a TUL/Foxconn discount special. Both 3 phase VRM designs, similar components and layouts => same power consumption. Oh, the Gigabyte "Easy Energy Saver" software will nicely crash the PC with a single click! :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:02 pm 
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WHS uses RAID in the managed pool, without your intervention, every time you add a drive beyond the first to the pool.

I was assuming the OP was taking advantage of that feature- good to point that out, thanks for correcting me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:55 pm 
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QuietOC wrote:
I currently have two similar G31 motherboards: one an "Easy Energy Saver" from Gigabyte and the other a TUL/Foxconn discount special. Both 3 phase VRM designs, similar components and layouts => same power consumption. Oh, the Gigabyte "Easy Energy Saver" software will nicely crash the PC with a single click! :)

Don't bother yourself with Gigabyte Energy Saver. It's useless in my experience. :roll:

I've had running 2 6100 boards, MSI K9N6PGM2-V and Abit NF-M2S, recently with the same system components, and MSI one drew 2 watts less than Abit one. Both of 6100s were 3 phase design, thus there's a difference other than VRM design.

Btw, I agree with what you said: Intel chipset is a relatively power-hog.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:38 am 
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fri2219 wrote:
WHS uses RAID in the managed pool, without your intervention, every time you add a drive beyond the first to the pool.

I was assuming the OP was taking advantage of that feature- good to point that out, thanks for correcting me.


WHS doesn't use RAID, it's File/Folder Duplication across a JBOD. RAID and WHS do not go well together because of this. WHS is essentially a modified Server 2003 install with the Home Server console and file management added on. You will get an automatic partition of 20GB for your SYS (OS) drive and the rest of your primary will be used as the initial "Landing drive" for the storage pool. So ideally you want to use the largest drive you have as the primary drive.

Before PP1, you couldn't transfer more data to the pool at once than could be held on the primary data drive. After PP1, now storage balancing is done on the fly and the "landing drive" isn't as important.

The downside of this setup is that you have to do additional work to backup the SYS partition.

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WHS: DF-85|P8H67-M Pro|I5-3450S/Hyper 212+|Corsair AX650|Sandisk Extreme 240GB, 2xWD20EARS, 2x WD15EARS, WD15EADS


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to build a whs (large media server) with low pow
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:18 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
moontan wrote:
Antec 300 Three Hundred Case - No PSU £44.99


Look into the CoolerMaster RC 590. It comes with 9 5.25" bays which gives you the possibility to suspend all nine drives, unlike the Three Hundred. It can be found for the same price as the 300 too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:06 am 
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well i built my whs with the following

Corsair 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered CL5 Lifetime Warranty
AMD Sempron LE-1250 Socket AM2 L2 512KB 2.2GHz Energy Efficient 45w Retail Boxed Processor
Corsair 400W CX PSU - 12cm DBB Fan 80%Plus Certified Efficiency
Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2H 740G Socket AM2 onboard VGA 8 channel audio mATX Motherboard
Samsung eco-green 1tb x9
Pinnacle 7010x dual dvb-s,dual dvb-t pci-e card
Supermicro 8 port sata pci card


It idles at about 87watts according to kilowatt


I plan to add some more harddrives and so am looking to save a few more watts where possible. So I want to underclock as the cpu is probably overkill for just serving files. But i know nothing at all about underclocking. Anyone have any instructions for underclocking the sempron le-1250 with a Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2H?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:13 pm 
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moontan wrote:
well i built my whs with the following
<snip>

Samsung eco-green 1tb x9

It idles at about 87watts according to kilowatt

Nice. :)

I'm very interested to know what your power meter says max start-up load is with that build.

I'm looking to build something extremely similar but with only 4 drives and am also considering a picopsu but am informed the HDD start-up load may be too much for a picopsu.

As for underclocking, I think QuietOC (a participant in this thread) has underclocked his or his parents LE-1250 and may be able to advise on the best method?

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WHS: Antec LS-100, GA-MA74GM-S2H, LE-1250, 2x2Gb XMS DDR2, 7Tb
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:15 pm 
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boot up goes to about 180watts from what i can remember



ye searched the forums and set multiplier to 7.5 *200mhz (1.5ghz) and vcore 0.8v (removed tv card aswell). Seems to be ok, until someone here tells me otherwise!

Its down to about 75/76watts idle (using lightsout so server only runs from 5pm to midnight) . Going to add two wd 1.5tb harddrives soon, so should be under 90watts idle. So 6tb's of usable harddrive space altogether.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:03 am 
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moontan wrote:
ye searched the forums and set multiplier to 7.5 *200mhz (1.5ghz) and vcore 0.8v (removed tv card aswell). Seems to be ok, until someone here tells me otherwise!

Its down to about 75/76watts idle (using lightsout so server only runs from 5pm to midnight) . Going to add two wd 1.5tb harddrives soon, so should be under 90watts idle. So 6tb's of usable harddrive space altogether.

Yes, those CPU settings are good. Your power draw is dominated by the storage system. The Sempron and motherboard aren't contributing much to the power usage--and it would be almost pointless to try to reduce their power further.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:52 pm 
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I know this is an old thread but this configuration reminds me much of my own fileserver that today contains six 3.5" harddrives and one 2.5" SYS drive.

Since I am running Ubuntu I have more power over disk spin downs (unlike in Windows where disks ocasionaly spins up and slows down, even if you set timeout to 10 min), after 10 minutes every 3.5" disk is spun down, and stays that way until I access that drive, which means each disk consumes very little watt.

With all 3.5" disks on standby my 4 TB fileserver stays around 42-45 watt with Sempron 1150 build, 740 chipset (I think). I think that is still a little bit to high, but the fileserver is also running as my webbserver so I guess its OK.

I was thinking of setting up a script to increase time for disks to spin during evenings but I havent bothered, this setup is perfect for me.

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