Seasonic S12 II (new revision) - now widely available

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:01 am

It's been running for over five hours now, and it's not so bad, sound hasn't changed one bit. I even took a two-hour nap with it on(single-room apartment), wasn't too intrusive apparently.

The sound is a medium-pitched droning sound I didn't have before, sounds jarring if you listen to it from the rear grill.

I'll be playing BF2142 for an hour or so, see if it changes tone.

Update.
1Â½h of BF2142 done. The fan noise doesn't change much if at all at load. My airflow is proper, so that explains it to some extent. The breeze coming from the rear grill is surprisingly gentle, and it's not excessively hot, a bit cooler than my old Smartpower. There is an issue though, an odd sound comes on if I crank up my fans(approx. 7Vx2+12Vx2 from a single 4-pin molex through Akasa Fan Control Pro). I'm not sure if it's a fan or the PSU making it though, so further testing required.

Sooty · Post by **Sooty** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Das_Saunamies wrote: Pictures!
The inside interface. Just a couple of tiny holes in the top for pressure balance(?) and a sideways cut next to the cable hole, which is rather spacious.

Just a couple of 'tiny holes', so next to no warm air pumped back into the case. A good improvement over the current version

kater · Post by **kater** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:16 pm

Das_Saunamies wrote: Screenshot of Asus Probe after half an hour of runtime while editing the above images and posting on these forums.

Seriously, you don't believe these, right? Mobo readings are never accurate. And if they are you nevere know when.

Some more info from one of my friends over here - another happy obwer of the new S12 II 380W. His unit is v v quiet - no "extra" noise whatsoever. Fan is v smooth, there's no electronics sound. Naturally, it handles a rig like C2D + 8800GTS + various stuff w/o any problems. Won't even ramp up. Stays stone cold. Gotta love hi efficieny, man.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:43 am

I don't take them as truth, just as guidelines. They feel flimsy to say the least. Still, put it up in case anyone's interested(as it is my only means of measurement), and it does differ from the Smartpower 2.0 on the 5V reading. 12V and 3.3V are pretty much the same but less consistently zig-zag.

kater · Post by **kater** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:48 am

I'd say even a cheapo multimeter, E 10-15, will be enough to provide very accurate (sure, non-lab) measurements. Thing is - sometimes mobo sensors are accurate, and sometimes not. And you never know when they're actually right. Well, you can't expect much from sensors worth $0.5, can you? Also, different software (Everest, Speedfan, BIOS) will give different readings.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:06 am

Indeed. The motherboard doesn't have a dedicated, quality measuring unit because that's not its job: it's there to facilitate fast and reliable operation by attached modules.

continuum · Post by **continuum** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:22 am

Mid-July? Hmm, could go well with my planned Q6600...

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:36 pm

Oh, forgot to mention this... the "weird sound" I was hearing with fans at full blast was another pressure issue. Went away with some RPM tweaking and increased intake from a removed 5.25" bay cover. Don't notice the PSU anymore, HDDs are back as the main and only source of noise. (note: noise, not sound)

Update 23. June:
The fan is worse now. Especially after prolonged sessions of gaming(>2h) there is a droning sound to it. It's like the chafing that was audible before, but worse: this time it fluctuates, so it's audible and irritating. You can esily hear it from the other side of my living room(appr. 3m). I made sure it's the fan: only stopping it manually made the noise cease. It's not coil buzz, it's definitely a fan with stupid bearings or wrong RPM. I'm not forking over 20 bucks more for a replacement fan, this stuff needs to work right out of the box. Doesn't sound like anything I could RMA for, and the replacement would probably be just as bad. Suffice to say I'm pretty pissed off.

continuum · Post by **continuum** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:32 am

That kind of fan noise definitely sounds like something you could RMA for, IMHO.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:11 pm

Nah, I've heard both poor fans and broken fans. This is definitely just a poor fan with an annoying, uneven/fluctuating noise character. The sound itself is very hard to describe: it just breaks the harmonious droning of the other sound sources.

I would've sent the PSU back, but I've revoked my right to return the merchandise as I've used the product(how else would I test it is beyond me). I'll contact Seasonic during the coming week though, see if they recognize the issue. If they do, I'll opt for a change to a fixed revision. If not... no more non-proven Seasonics for me... maybe they'll let me have an old model in exchange.

Update 25.6.: Support contacted me today. They assured me that the fan controls were the same as the old S12(I had no complaints about this) and that the new fan was from Adda as well. Without providing much additional information, they kindly offered to RMA the unit but I declined. I'm suspecting the fan just has an unpleasant noise character that I can only get rid of with a fan swap. I'll spare myself the waiting times and shipping expenses and use those to implement a silent fan.

Tamas · Post by **Tamas** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:47 am

Das_Saunamies wrote:Nah, I've heard both poor fans and broken fans. This is definitely just a poor fan with an annoying, uneven/fluctuating noise character. The sound itself is very hard to describe: it just breaks the harmonious droning of the other sound sources.

I would've sent the PSU back, but I've revoked my right to return the merchandise as I've used the product(how else would I test it is beyond me). I'll contact Seasonic during the coming week though, see if they recognize the issue. If they do, I'll opt for a change to a fixed revision. If not... no more non-proven Seasonics for me... maybe they'll let me have an old model in exchange.

Update 25.6.: Support contacted me today. They assured me that the fan controls were the same as the old S12(I had no complaints about this) and that the new fan was from Adda as well. Without providing much additional information, they kindly offered to RMA the unit but I declined. I'm suspecting the fan just has an unpleasant noise character that I can only get rid of with a fan swap. I'll spare myself the waiting times and shipping expenses and use those to implement a silent fan.

I've bought a Seasonic S12 a month ago, and my friend owns one for a year, these not from the II series but the Adda (ball bearing) fan in this PSU works fairly quiet. (I've Noctua, Yate Loon - Nexus 12cm fans for comparison)

Ball bearing fans has a small disadvantage, they're very sensitive to shocks (because the small contact surface), I assume your PSU's fan damaged in transport. So I would try the RMA, if you don't have any other problem with this PSU.

Can you see the exact model number of your fan? You can see it with a flashlight. Something like this: AD1212LB-A71GL
Adda fan specifications: http://www.addausa.com/specifications/92-120.pdf

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:55 am

Thanks for that. I'm well aware of the damage a knock could do on a ball-bearing fan, but this one is too close to tell. Can't risk a failed RMA just because I don't like the sound.

It's still a quiet fan, just irritating. I'll go about getting the precise model as soon as I get home.

Update: AD1212MB-A71GL is the model number on the fan. 0.33A/3.96W, 80 CFM, 2050 RPM, according to that .pdf. Medium-speed then, as I feared. Can't get operational RPM readings as there's no lead, which is a bit of a letdown, but guessing by the airflow I'd say it's just below 1000 at idle. Should be quiet, but maybe I'm just used to my sleeve and double-bearing fans.

Tamas · Post by **Tamas** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:29 am

Das_Saunamies wrote:Thanks for that. I'm well aware of the damage a knock could do on a ball-bearing fan, but this one is too close to tell. Can't risk a failed RMA just because I don't like the sound.

It's still a quiet fan, just irritating. I'll go about getting the precise model as soon as I get home.

Update: AD1212MB-A71GL is the model number on the fan. 0.33A/3.96W, 80 CFM, 2050 RPM, according to that .pdf. Medium-speed then, as I feared. Can't get operational RPM readings as there's no lead, which is a bit of a letdown, but guessing by the airflow I'd say it's just below 1000 at idle. Should be quiet, but maybe I'm just used to my sleeve and double-bearing fans.

It's interesting that Seasonic changed the fan controller and the speed of the fan. My older version of Seasonic S12 430W has the LB (low speed, ball bearing 1800RPM) version of this ADDA fan, I replaced my old FSP 350 PNPNF (Yate Loon D12SM-12) and my cpu/chipset/vga temperatures had risen rapidly because Seasonic simply not push too much air, and also the PSU became very hot (now i'm using gap pads to cool it). The fan never ramps up even under load (under 200W config).

Maybe this fan suitable for this PSU as a fan swap option:

Fast Version: S-Flex SFF21F (1,600 RPM) very good quality bearings
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article69 ... html#sflex

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:26 am

Das_Saunamies wrote:They assured me that the fan controls were the same as the old S12(I had no complaints about this)--

They only changed the fan, which might indicate that it's getting fed the same power as the old one, resulting in more RPM! And indeed, a medium-speed fan has a more robust sound to it, and this is what's bugging me. I'll let their support know what the deal is!

I'm definitely considering an S-Flex, thank you for the recommendation and helpful information, this should help their support as well.

stevenkelby · Post by **stevenkelby** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:35 am

I don't think my S-12 550w was faulty, just noisy. Sure it was "quiet" but as we know,there is a world of difference between quiet, extremely quiet, inaudible and silent

I swapped the fan for a nexus 120mm, soft mounted with silicone gaskets and things. I cut out the grills too. I'm happy with it now

It turns real slow when the PSU is at idle but I can just still hear it from 1 meter away when the HD501LJ in a suspended scythe quiet drive is the only other noise source in the room.

This is in an open case on my desk with all other fans unplugged to listen, I am still installing Windows now and haven't set anything else up so no temps, rpm or anything.

The ticking noise I heard when I plugged in the S-12 with no load is completely absent under load

I have it upside down in the bottom of the P182. Very happy with this PSU so far (now that I swapped the fan)

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:07 am

After checking the pics in this review I'm a bit unsure... I ordered three S12II's from Germany, but I'm considering about swapping my order to the old model

http://www.techaddicts.net/reviews/s12i ... ii500.html

The PCB layout seems to match the Antec Earthwatts... I don't get it. Why the hell do you create a PCB layout that requires a piece of plastic next to the fan to guide air with BOTH 80mm and 120mm models, it only creates additional noise. Use the damn vents on the bottom if you have issues with thermal shadowing etc... Or even better, make a proper layout that's different for 80mm and 120mm models.

Well actually I do get it, they want to milk one design for several PSUs models.

mcoleg · Post by **mcoleg** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:43 pm

in case no one has posted yet.

the 380 version of the II is going to be available in the US soon:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151032

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:59 pm

Aleksi wrote:After checking the pics in this review I'm a bit unsure... I ordered three S12II's from Germany, but I'm considering about swapping my order to the old model

http://www.techaddicts.net/reviews/s12i ... ii500.html

The PCB layout seems to match the Antec Earthwatts... I don't get it. Why the hell do you create a PCB layout that requires a piece of plastic next to the fan to guide air with BOTH 80mm and 120mm models, it only creates additional noise. Use the damn vents on the bottom if you have issues with thermal shadowing etc... Or even better, make a proper layout that's different for 80mm and 120mm models.

Well actually I do get it, they want to milk one design for several PSUs models.

Thanks for the link Aleksi, even though it made me a little sad.

The PCB does look more like Antec EarthWatts than traditional S12 PCB (it's obviously built for 80mm traditional PSU layout, same three heatsinks, same component layout) and although I'm not qualified to say which one is better, I was under impression that EarthWatts was marketed as more of a budget line so new S12-II might as well be a step backwards.

The stupid clear plastic on the 120mm fan is an icing on the cake as it will surely introduce turbulence noise.

I was excited to see S12-II for two reasons, one is because I thought it would be the next generation seasonic PSU and two because it would have native 8-pin PCIEx connector. At this point however, it would seem that Seasonic S12-II would be a downgrade from S12-Energy+. As for 8-pin PCIEx connector, I think I'd rather buy Energy+ and a 6-to-8 pin adapter.

EDIT: for clarity

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:57 pm

Definitely recommend sticking to your Energy+ guns if you have them. More power, more efficient and apparently less buzz, or at least fewer complaints.

The switch to medium-speed fans was explained to me as a necessity to match TÃœV standards.

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:06 pm

Perhaps I said it a wrong. I have regular S12 now and I like it a lot. However, I will be upgrading at the end of the year and will be needing new PSU to go along with my new P180B/P182 for better cable management. i was excited about S12-II because I thought it would be like S12 Energy+ but with new PCIEx connector. Turned out to be I was wrong. Fan is the same as in Energy+ by the way, this is not an issue. The issue clear plastic in front of the 12cm fan, more restrictive honeycomb grill and potentially PCB from cheaper earthwatts line.

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:23 pm

Jazz,

I also expected to S12II to be next generation PSUs, maybe something based on the S12-Energy+.

However, I didn't change my order and received three units of S12II 380W. The 380W does not have the plastic as far as I can tell. However the fan in the Seasonics really isn't that great, a good example of a bad quality ball bearing fan. Low grumbling combined with slight whine. I tested two of the Seasonics (one went to a friend) and they both sounded pretty much the same.

Yesterday I assembled my brother a new system in P180 with the Seasonic. Maybe it's just me, but i would say that the ADDA fan in there is not loud, but produces an annoying and audible sound. Not my idea of a "SPCR recommended product".

Will swap the fan in my PSU for a reference bearing NMB-MAT within a week or so, I'll post some internal pics of the PSU while I'm at it.

atlr · Post by **atlr** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:48 am

atlr wrote:The Seasonic S12II-xxx aka SS-xxxGB is reported to reach retailers in the USA in July. No idea what the price will be.

newegg lists some in stock now.
380w US$83
500w US$138

I think I will watch for deals on the Energy+ based on the comments thus far.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:19 am

Aleksi wrote:Maybe it's just me, but i would say that the ADDA fan in there is not loud, but produces an annoying and audible sound.

Judging by the commentary here, mine included, certainly not just you.

Growl-and-whine is actually a pretty good description of it.

Energy+ sounds like the way to go if you want to stick with Seasonic. Personally I'll give another silent manufacturer a go the next time a PSU update comes around. Corsair's models are too high-power so maybe Nexus or some other semi-wild card.

Aleksi · Post by **Aleksi** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:55 pm

The internal pics as promised (I remember someone over at Jonnyguru asking for them also)

mellon · Post by **mellon** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:07 pm

I wrote this in the HX520 buzzing thread, probably relevant here too:

-------------

Buzzing indeed seems to be a common problem these days. After an old Antec power supply broke in an even older TBird 1,4GHz machine I replaced it with a S12II-430. Works fine otherwise but it has developed a buzzing sound that intermittently goes away when some activity is going on.

Really annoying considering that Seasonics are supposed to be silent high-quality PSU's. Luckily the computer is about to be phased out (maybe to rare render farm use) as getting a non-buzzing RMA is seems to be unlikely.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:52 am

Are these PSU also buzzing/whining?

kater · Post by **kater** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:22 pm

It just so happens that my bro was upgrading his rig this week. As resident PSU geek (at least to my bro) I told him to buy S12 II 380W. He also purchased some other noise reducing thingies. Anyway, when we assembled the rig and turned off noisemakers such as CPU cooler, case fans etc. I listened hard to the PSU to somehow evaluate it against my S12. Well, my S12 has now a Fander inside but I do remember how it performed before teh fanswap. Well, my bro's S12 II has no buzzing or whining and is very quiet indeed, but it's not as quiet as the S12 (fresh revision, sleeved, no fan monitoring). The fan is more, kinda, soundful - it spins v slowly judging by the flow of air, but it's simply easier to hear than the one in S12. My bro is v happy with it as his previous PSU was a veritable diesel engine, but I for one wouldn't like to trade my S12 for it, not to mention my super-quiet fanswapped S12.

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:15 am

S12 = low-speed Adda
S12II = medium-speed Adda

More speed, more robust fan, more robust sound. Good to hear that one has no buzz... but give it a week or two. It took me some time to notice my buzzing, and to properly identify it.

A176 · Post by **A176** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:29 pm

uh ... where are the solid caps?

Das_Saunamies · Post by **Das_Saunamies** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:27 pm

What do you mean "where"? Most likely all the capacitors on that PCB are the solid type.

"Caps": http://www.chemi-con.co.jp/IMG/alumi2.jpg