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 Post subject: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use[?]
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:06 am 
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I have the following build

Intel DH77DF motherboard
Intel Celeron G1620 CPU
1 stick of 2GB Crucial DDR3-1333 RAM
1 TB Western Digital Hard drive
Antec ISK 110 case, with stock power supply and power brick

The power consumption is low (about 18.4 watts), but I would like to try a picoPSU. Which powersupply unit should I get. Are there any reviews on them? The only one I was able to find was at Johnnyguru.com but the picoPSUs they tested did not have the 4 pin CPU power cable that I need. I was on mini-box and I see several models that have the 4 pin connector.

picoPSU-160-XT
picoPSU-150-XT
picoPSU-90

I'm thinking of going with whichever on is the cheapest. Is there a way to determing which one is more efficient? Also, which power brick would you all recommend? I see that MeanWell power bricks seem to be popular. Should I get one of those? I'm guessing I would need a 12V one, right? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:18 am 
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If you check my signature for my Download station, you can find some numbers there, i use a 2100T + Intel H61AG + picoPSU 150XT with 150W brick, and even under prime95 it doesnt break 50W, now ivy bridge is more efficient and you using intel mobo so it should be safe to assume it should consume slightly less, also no hyperthreading, you will run a single ram, i also run 3 fans, so yours should be lower than mine.

Personally if i would have known my consumption in advance, i would like to have tried a different combo

For DC-DC: PWR-PICOPSU-90-XLP,
Quote:
- Greenest DC-DC ATX PSU to date.
- Ultra low power Standby consumption (<0.050 watt)
- High efficiency in the low (5-15 watt) and high power range

For AC-DC: 60w (12v/5A) AC-DC Power Adapter with Power Cord, They advertise it as the "High efficiency, level V" the only one i seen level 5 sold from them.

Since my setup never draws above 50W, yours shouldn't either, so thats the combo i would recommend. The brick is in stock, but the picoPSU 90 XLP is not, but there are other sellers of picoPSUs, for example PicoPSU 90 XLP + 6.6A/80W AC to DC Switching PSU, the brick is not what i suggested, but the brick is cheap, like $15.

As last remark, im not sure what you trying to do, is it for testing? i would think that the ISK 110 PSU is good enough, it rated 92% efficient, but this is a hobby for me, so if its like that for you then go for it. If you do try it, please share your results, specially idle and load consumption.

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Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:08 am
Posts: 16
Thanks for the reply Abula. Yes, this is a hobby for me. As for the numbers on my board, I posted them on the first page of this thread, my post is somewhere at the bottom (I don't know how to link to it specifically). I get about 18.4 watts at idle, but this board allows me to undervolt the RAM and disable 1394a (which I wasn't using). With these alterations I get about 16.6 watts at idle, with video out, with wifi enabled. I just wanted to see how low I could get the idle power consumption. I checked out those links you sent me. The picopsu you linked to is probably the one I will go with. The power bricks minibox.com has are EDAC. They seem cheap enough so I'll try them over the MeanWell. The review of the power bricks at Johnnyguru seems to give the edge to a 19V FSP brick over the EDAC ones, but I can't use a 19V brick with the picopsu-90-XLP. I guess my power brick choice is between the EDAC ones you linked to and the MeanWell power brick kappa7 specified in his post on the thread I linked to above, he used a MeanWell GS90A12-P1M, but this brick is 3-4x the price of the EDAC bricks.


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
necbot wrote:
Thanks for the reply Abula. Yes, this is a hobby for me. As for the numbers on my board, I posted them on the first page of this thread, my post is somewhere at the bottom (I don't know how to link to it specifically). I get about 18.4 watts at idle, but this board allows me to undervolt the RAM and disable 1394a (which I wasn't using). With these alterations I get about 16.6 watts at idle, with video out, with wifi enabled. I just wanted to see how low I could get the idle power consumption. I checked out those links you sent me. The picopsu you linked to is probably the one I will go with. The power bricks minibox.com has are EDAC. They seem cheap enough so I'll try them over the MeanWell. The review of the power bricks at Johnnyguru seems to give the edge to a 19V FSP brick over the EDAC ones, but I can't use a 19V brick with the picopsu-90-XLP. I guess my power brick choice is between the EDAC ones you linked to and the MeanWell power brick kappa7 specified in his post on the thread I linked to above, he used a MeanWell GS90A12-P1M, but this brick is 3-4x the price of the EDAC bricks.
Well most of the laptops i think uses 19V bricks, so you will have a very wide selection there to test. I went with the 150W + 150XT combo cause it was very hard to find the FSP 19V, and i found a site that sold them but never really bothered you will also need one of those picoPSU WI models, decided not to mess with it.

You got me into searching for those Meanwell bricks, found some on amazon through 3rd party sellers, all seem Level V

Mean Well Power Supply 12V 80W 6.6A $31.95 + $6.98 shipping, i believe what Kappa7 suggested (although not sure as no model numbers)
Mean Well Power Supply 12V 60W 5A $20.49 + $6.77 shipping, this one is cheaper and i doubt you need more than 50W.
Mean Well Power Supply 12V 40W 3.34A $18.49 + $6.82 shipping, this one might be risky for its so low capacity, maybe in skylake =)

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Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:08 am
Posts: 16
Thanks for looking into that for me. I'll probably be looking to get a picopsu soon. I'm not sure if I'll go EDAC or MeanWell. Whichever way I go I'll be sure to post back my power consumption. Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:44 pm 
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Location: Sweden
EDAC is crap and MeanWell is the best there is. So consider the MeanWell. :)

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Main: ASRock B85M-ITX | i3-4330 | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 730 240GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 13.9W AC
HTPC: ASRock H81M-ITX | Pentium G3420 | 4GB DDR3 | X25-M G2 80GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 11.2W AC
Gaming: Intel DH77EB | i5-3570K | GTX 760 | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | TJ08-E | G-360 360W
Server: Intel DH77DF | i3-2100T | 4TB+3x3TB | picoPSU | Idle 24W AC


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1825
Location: Guatemala
Vicotnik wrote:
EDAC is crap and MeanWell is the best there is. So consider the MeanWell. :)
Evil Vicotnik, you tempting me to try it out.... damn i give up... the 80W and 60W are on the way, ill post some results once i can get my hands on an PICOPSU-90-XLP.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:10 am 
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Vicotnik wrote:
EDAC is crap and MeanWell is the best there is. So consider the MeanWell. :)

I ordered the picoPSU-90-XLP from ebay and the 80 watt MeanWell adapter you linked to. I'll post the power results as soon as I get them.


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
necbot wrote:
I ordered the picoPSU-90-XLP from ebay and the 80 watt MeanWell adapter you linked to. I'll post the power results as soon as I get them.
Looking forward for your results.

I kinda hesitated and almost didn't find the picoPSU 90XLP, at first i tried calling MCS (ebay link) to see if he were willing to sell it without the brick, but told me that he just ran out today and no longer on stock. So i call mini-box and they said they are not re stocking the XLP out of being more expensive to manufacture, so this are the last we will see, so i enter panic mode, started calling all the US distributors, and found one that had some still, so i order mine, should come my country in a couple of weeks.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:08 am
Posts: 16
Abula wrote:
I kinda hesitated and almost didn't find the picoPSU 90XLP, at first i tried calling MCS (ebay link) to see if he were willing to sell it without the brick, but told me that he just ran out today and no longer on stock. So i call mini-box and they said they are not re stocking the XLP out of being more expensive to manufacture, so this are the last we will see, so i enter panic mode, started calling all the US distributors, and found one that had some still, so i order mine, should come my country in a couple of weeks.


Where did you order it from? The same guy on Ebay just told me that he is out of stock. I searched around but couldn't find one either.


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1825
Location: Guatemala
necbot wrote:
Abula wrote:
I kinda hesitated and almost didn't find the picoPSU 90XLP, at first i tried calling MCS (ebay link) to see if he were willing to sell it without the brick, but told me that he just ran out today and no longer on stock. So i call mini-box and they said they are not re stocking the XLP out of being more expensive to manufacture, so this are the last we will see, so i enter panic mode, started calling all the US distributors, and found one that had some still, so i order mine, should come my country in a couple of weeks.


Where did you order it from? The same guy on Ebay just told me that he is out of stock. I searched around but couldn't find one either.
I bought it from MitxPC
http://www.mitxpc.com/products.asp?cat=75

Check your pms for more info, i already wrote more there...

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:08 am
Posts: 16
Abula wrote:
Check your pms for more info, i already wrote more there...


Got it. Thanks! I'll post the results as soon as it arrives.


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use[?]
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:08 am
Posts: 16
Okay, time for an update....

I got the MeanWell power supply (12V 80W 6.6A) and the picopsu-90-XLP. I removed the stock Antec power supply and installed these and the power consumption was EXACTLY the same. I noticed no significant difference between the stock Antec and the picopsu-90-XLP/MeanWell combo. I'm still using my Kill A Watt meter for measuring. If there is a difference, I can't reliably detect it. The Kill A Watt meter jumps around so the values I have below are my "best guess" as to what I think the average is over a 1 minute window. I also include min and max values over a 1 minute window. I played around with a bunch of different operating systems also. Here are the results....


Hardware:
Antec ISK 110 VESA case
Crucial 2GB DDR3-1333 RAM 1.5V (single stick), part# CT25664BA1339
Intel Celeron G1620, stock cooling fan
DH77DF Motherboard, running BIOS version 110
Western Digital 1TB 5400 RPM SATA hard drive, part# WD10JPVT
TP-Link 802.11g USB Wifi adapter, part# TL-WN721N

PSUs:
Stock Antec
- 90W power supply and brick come with case.
- Power brick info: Delta Electronics, 19V 4.74A output, part# ADP-90CD AB
Picopsu-90-XLP/MeanWell GS90A12-P1M Power Brick

Software:
OpenELEC v3.2.0, Generic Build with Confluence skin

Watt Meter:
Kill A Watt, model# P4400.01

Other relevant Info:
1394a port disabled (wasn't using it)
RAM undervolted to 1.200 V
Load testing was done with Prime95, test #2
Wifi is on
Video output enabled


Picopsu/MeanWell
Idle: about 16.5 W, (observed min/max: 16.1/17.2)
Load: about 28.0 W, (observed min/max: 27.7/28.1)

Stock Antec
Idle: about 16.6 W, (observed min/max: 15.9/17.1)
Load: about 28.1 W, (observed min/max: 27.6/28.2)


OS Results (Idle, using stock Antec PSU):
OpenELEC: about 16.6 W, (observed min/max: 15.9/17.1)
WattOS: about 13.3 W, (observed min/max: 12.9/15.9)
Ubuntu 13.04: about 13.5 W, (observed min/max: 12.8/18.5)
Lubuntu 13.04: about 13.3 W, (observed min/max: 12.8/17.2)


OS results were just a experiment I had in mind and decided to test because the opportunity was there. Based on these results it looks like the ISK 110 stock Antec power supply is on par with the picopsu/MeanWell combo. I was expecting a measurable difference but didn't see any. It looks like the folks over at Antec once again put out a quality product. The picopsu does make cable management in the case a bit easier though. Maybe I'll try an EDAC power brick if I have time/money but I don't think I'll see a measurable difference either.


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use[?]
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Location: Guatemala
I was hopping for slightly better results, considering its the most efficient picopsu and good brick.

My picoPSU90XLP just arrived today, seems real like in the picture on mini itx, i had fears that might send me the standard, but seems its the XLP.

The bad news is that bricks are coming by boat.... so another 3 weeks for me to get my hands on them to test. I do hope to see some difference since im coming from the 150XT and 150W EDAC brick, but i think the difference will be slightly, i also ordered 60 and 80W mean well bricks, will see if either nets better idles, but its going to be hard, as the idles are not steady, but a range...

I find it strange though, the guy on the original thread you were posting have sub 10W.... i think i can reach there, but ill probably going to have to turn off fans, i have NOFAN95 on my way so will see if i can maintain good temps just with one case fan.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use[?]
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:05 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:08 am
Posts: 16
I was expecting a difference too. I did notice that the power brick that came with the Antec case had an efficiency level of V, it is made by a company called Delta Electronics. The MeanWell also had a the same efficiency rating, so I'm guessing that these two power bricks are similar in performance. I say "similar in performace" because I am measuring using a KillAWatt meter. Probably there is a more accurate way of measuring power consumption. I just don't have the instrument/s to do this. All I can say is that the folks over at Antec didn't include a crappy power supply with this case.

Yeah, the picopsu I got from mitxpc looks like the real deal. It is certainly not a counterfeit (see here) and it says picopsu-90-XLP on it.

The guy on the other thread did get sub 10 watt idle, but he didn't have Wifi and had fans disconnected. I can get as low as 13.1-13.3 with a fully functioning system (screen, internet, etc.). I did some playing around though. I found a linux app called Powertop. If I set all my settings to what Powertop recommends and disable wifi and my CPU fan I can get down to about 11.3 watts using the stock Antec PS running WattOS. The only way I can decrease that further is to unplug my laser mouse and turn off my screen. The thing is.... I need my computer functional so to me doing all this is not practical.

I think the only way to get sub 10 watt idle with a functional system is to use a board like the Intel DQ77KB or the Intel DH61AG. These don't require a picopsu, just a power brick. There is this guy who specializes in making low powered builds and he has used both these boards in two of his builds

5.9 watt system
10 watt NAS


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use[?]
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1825
Location: Guatemala
necbot wrote:
I was expecting a difference too. I did notice that the power brick that came with the Antec case had an efficiency level of V, it is made by a company called Delta Electronics.
Yea, Delta has been the main manufacturer for ANTEC ATX PSUs, and many years ago there were very few options, for me in the past was ANTEC, Enermax and PC Power n Cooling. Now a days there are lots of manufacturer and re-sellers, i still like antec PSUs, specially their HCP line, just they are too expensive for what they are considering there are others cheaper that perform as well and maybe even quieter, but delta is a solid manufacturers of PSU n bricks, even my MSI GT70 One uses a delta level V brick, not sure how it measures to Mean Well though, i mean never heard of them until this thread.

Either way im glad to see that Antec 110 has an efficient and manufactured by a known company, personally i always wanted to built on it a HTPC with Scythe Kozuti, but never really had a chance, i wanted to run MADVR + LAV filters, and couple of years back, intel igpu wasn not good enough for this, you needed a dedicated gpu to be able to, now things are different, MADVR is now supporting more intel tech, and i think can run fine with quicksync, but for now im fine, maybe in skylake ill rebuild the htpc with an antec 110 (or what ever the refresh mgiht be, im really hopping to see USB3).

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Which picoPSU and power brick should I use[?]
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:48 am 
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Location: Guatemala
Finally i had some free time to test the picoPSU 90XLP + Meanwell 60W brick, and now my download station is idling at around 10W, i did swap all my fans for PWM and changed the hitachi 5k500b for 5k1500.

Image

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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