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 Post subject: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:35 pm 
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I need a PSU for this system:

Gigabyte GA-B75M-HD3 (w/ 8GB RAM)
Intel Celeron G1610
No GPU card, just using integrated Intel graphics on the CPU
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO (w/Scyth fan swap)
Silverstone PS07 case
Scyth rear case fan
2x stock Silverstone front fans
2x Samsung HD502HI HDDs (for data storage)
USB Stick (for OS - probably NAS4Free)
MSI Optical Drive (internal)

I would like partial or fully modular for the PSU as space inside this build is limited.

As you may know, in the PS07, the PSU mounts in the top rear of the case with the fan vent right on top, so might be nice to have a passive or hybrid mode PSU, but not required.


Last edited by toronado455 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Take a look at the EVGA G3 550W. Seriously overkill wattage-wise, but ~$80 and passive for your loads.

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:56 pm 
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Thanks. I like it.


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:00 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
but ~$80 and passive for your loads.

Not modular but a very shy casing, less than $50 and passive as well as the EVGA G3 for OP expected power draw, at first glance I like the Silverstone ST-30SF V1.0 more for that job (and it's specifically marketed by Silverstone for NAS jobs).

Otherwise, whether it fits, personally the I'd rather the more expensive (before MIR) Corsair RM550x (better fan, thrice the fanless range, and it doesn't dump the market as EVGA does). If the OP doesn't care about market dumping, I'd opt for the EVGA G2 650W, way quieter than G3, same performances.

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:09 pm 
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Luca, do you consider the newer EVGA SuperNOVA G3 Series to be a step down from the previous G2 Series? You don't like the fan in the G3?

Also, there is a G2 550W. Why do you recommend the 650W version?


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:26 pm 
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toronado455 wrote:
Luca, do you consider the newer EVGA SuperNOVA G3 Series to be a step down from the previous G2 Series? You don't like the fan in the G3?

The G3 (SF Leadex II based) is mostly a different trade off than the G2 (SF Leadex based), rather than a slight refinement.

Super Flower increased the relevant power density, so traded some fanless operation range for shorter casing, and therefore quiet-wise it is definitely a step down: besides, given also the long warranty, they also increased the fan speed (increased cooling prowess) over previous lineup, so that usually, when fan is on the G3s, it is also louder than G2s' one.

All in all, albeit both G2 and G3 run comfortably with a modest system like your one, I don't see a reason to prefer a G3 in a SPCR-oriented rig: those units should hopefully last a decade or more, and who knows what the tide will bring in the next decade.


toronado455 wrote:
Also, there is a G2 550W. Why do you recommend the 650W version?

Because the G2 550W isn't that quiet when ambient temp rises, its fan controller is more conservative (aggressive) than its 650/750 siblings one, so that IMHO in your scenario a G2 550W looks not clearly preferable over a G3 550W quiet-wise.

BTW, my advice for your specific case is more towards the 300W Silverstone SFX, not those EVGAs (and, en passant, if you redeem the mail in rebate, at 79 dollars on NewEgg CA, the RM550x is also a quieter and slightly cheaper option).

With the Silverstone you'd get the same ~110W fanless operation range of the G3 (only with the V1.0, not with the similarly priced V2.0), same 50°C rating, save a lot of internal space, and all that sparing about 35-40 bucks: I mean, not that bad.

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:30 am 
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Luca,

Thanks for explaining the differences between the EVGA G2 and G3.

Setting price considerations aside for the moment, I want to be clear how you would rank those PSU models.

Is this the order (#1 being best) how you would rank them?
1. Silverstone ST30SF v1.0 300W
2. Corsair RM550x
3. EVGA G2 650W
4. EVGA G3 550W
5. EVGA G2 550W


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:37 am 
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toronado455 wrote:
Setting price considerations aside for the moment, I want to be clear how you would rank those PSU models.

With reference to what? Performance, build quality? Quietness with reference to your setup?

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:35 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
toronado455 wrote:
Setting price considerations aside for the moment, I want to be clear how you would rank those PSU models.

With reference to what? Performance, build quality? Quietness with reference to your setup?


I place build quality and reliabilty as my top priority, followed by quietness, then efficency. Does that help?

After knowing these facts, only then will I consider the price.


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:20 am 
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toronado455 wrote:
I place build quality and reliabilty as my top priority, followed by quietness, then efficency. Does that help?

Build quality wise the EVGAs (any) and the Corsair RM550x are about equal, top notch, while the FSP-based Silverstone is a tad below: it's rated 50°C by FSP, so its build quality is relatively high (the thermal rating is maybe the most important data in a PSU), but as said, it's clearly of a lower class, less sturdy and less refined.

Reliability wise, the Corsair offers a 10 years warranty, the EVGAs a 7 years one, the Silverstone a more modest grace period of 3 years: albeit the warranty lenght nowadays is more a marketing gimnick, that clearly indicates there's a difference between the various ATX units and the SFX one.
OTOH it worths to note that long term reliability is greatly affected by wasted heat and so by efficiency and actual power draw: with an expected power draw of about 50W, more probably that not any of those units will outlast the whole rig life and by far.

Efficiency is also greatly affected by the actual power draw: around 50-60W you can expect an about 83-86% from the larger Gold-rated units, while the Bronze SFX, thanks to its smaller capacity, still boasts up to 85-86%; around half that value (I mean in the 20-40W range) the larger Gold units have an around 73-80% efficiency, while the 300W Bronze Silverstone is already around 80-82% above 25W.
So while being broadly speaking less efficient, the SIlverstone is very efficient at the expected power draw.

Quietness-wise, at the expected power draw and up at least to 110W all the quoted units run fanless: up to just above that (130W DC?) the G3 and the Silverstone are about equal, while above YMMV. The Silverstone 80mm fan starts at about 950rpm at more than 180W power draw, and it tops around 1350rpm around 300W: take note it is an 80mm fan, not a 120-140mm, so the airborne noise is lower at a given pace. The EVGA 650 G2 starts around 600rpm at about 300W DC, and then tops a smidge over 1300rpm at full load. The Corsair one is a tad more gentle, starts under 600rpm, still around 300W, and tops at about 800rpm. The 550 G3 fan profile is basically untested: as a not-that-educated guesswork, the around 30dB recorded by PC Perspective (the only review around) should account for an (at least) over 700-800rpm minimum speed.
The 550W G2 starts higher, around 1000rpm, and tops under 1300rpm. G2 and G3 units can also be set with an always-on fan.

Well, I already gave twice my advice, now do what you think best. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:35 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
with an expected power draw of about 50W
Is that the expected power draw for my system?


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Running as a NAS? Sounds about right. Don't think you could get to 100W with Prime 95 and writing to both hard drives.

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Thanks. If the little Silverstone 80mm fan stays off under 180W draw, then I do understand the appeal of that unit.


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:29 am 
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toronado455 wrote:
Thanks. If the little Silverstone 80mm fan stays off under 180W draw, then I do understand the appeal of that unit.

Any PSU fan controller (set aside digital ones like for instance Corsair AXi ones) is temperature-driven.
So around 25°C you should expect that kind of fanless operation range with the Silverstone (as recorded by ComputerBase): with higher ambient temps, YMMV but you should still get about two-three times your expected power draw of fanless operation range.

Said differently, with any of the quoted PSUs, you should never see their fan spinning in your system: OTOH, if you got the Silverstone were a gem for pennies, well, that's not the case, it's just a good PSU for that job. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Luca, so do I understand correctly that if ambient temps in the room and computer exceed 25°C, the Silverstone fan will start spinning regardless of power draw?


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:32 pm 
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toronado455 wrote:
Luca, so do I understand correctly that if ambient temps in the room and computer exceed 25°C, the Silverstone fan will start spinning regardless of power draw?

No, unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think you got it completely wrong.

I just said that >180W fanless operation is referred to an ambient temp of around 25°C and that any fan controller is temperature-driven.

About your apparent concern, IIRC Silverstone states that the fanless mode will be deactivated when the PSU temp is over 55°C: it may worth to note it's the normal behaviour, and I mean that you will see this kind of behaviour not only on this Silverstone, but also on the Seasonic Prime Titaniums, on those EVGA SuperNOVA G2/G3s, and so on.

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:15 am 
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Luca,

I do understand you are saying that the internal PSU temp limit of 55°C for fanless operation is not only a limitaion of the Silverstone ST-30SF, but would also be the case for several other high quality PSUs.

I read on the Silverstone page "The fanless mode operation deactivates when PSU’s internal temperature reaches 55°C.", and you said "...around 25°C you should expect that kind of fanless operation range with the Silverstone (as recorded by ComputerBase): with higher ambient temps, YMMV...". So I'm a bit confused.

I don't understand where you are getting the 25°C limit, but are you saying that ambient room temps exceeding 25°C will trigger a PSU fan to start even if the internal PSU temp has not reached 55°C?

My concern is that the ambient room temp where the computer is used may indeed exceed 25°C...not by a lot, but 78-80 (sometimes more) fahrenheit room temps are certainly possible during the warmest summer months.

BTW, a nice sounding and quiet fan isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm currently typing on a (different) machine sitting under my desk with 5 fans all spinning constantly which I don't even notice at all unless I put my head very near to the case.

The PSU I'm replacing in the system we are discussing in this thread was an old Seasonic S12 500W (which died) which had a constantly spinning fan which never bothered me.

What would really bother me noise-wise in a PSU would be buzzing and whining noises from coils, etc. I would also tend to think that such noises would be an indication of poor quality, but I'm certainly no expert on any of this.

EDIT: sorry to add more... but I would also like to keep the weight to a minimum if at all possible. (I realize that's kind of a contradiction of my desire for high-quality PSU since the best tend to be heavy, right?) I think on that (lightweight) basis I would favor the Corsair RM550x over either EVGA since the weight of the Corsair is 3.6 lbs vs 5 lbs for the EVGA units. The Silverstone is lighter than either at just under 2 lbs, but leaning more toward the Corsair honestly because of the higher quality.


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:40 am 
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toronado455 wrote:
I read on the Silverstone page "The fanless mode operation deactivates when PSU’s internal temperature reaches 55°C.", and you said "...around 25°C you should expect that kind of fanless operation range with the Silverstone (as recorded by ComputerBase): with higher ambient temps, YMMV...". So I'm a bit confused.

There should be some language barrier because I'm unable to get what confuses you, and about what. Alternatively I explained really bad.

This is my original phrase:

quest_for_silence wrote:
Any PSU fan controller (set aside digital ones like for instance Corsair AXi ones) is temperature-driven.
So around 25°C you should expect that kind of fanless operation range with the Silverstone (as recorded by ComputerBase): with higher ambient temps, YMMV but you should still get about two-three times your expected power draw of fanless operation range.

It means that available data says fanless operation lasts above a 180W power draw with an ambient temp of about 25°C ("...around 25°C you should expect that kind of fanless operation range with the Silverstone (as recorded by ComputerBase)...").
That also means that at higher ambient temp there are no published data ("...with higher ambient temps, YMMV...").
As an educated guesswork about higher ambient temp scenarios, I added that I'm expecting at least a large portion of this fanless operation range (120-130W? I was thinking something like that, which corresponds to 2 or 3 times your NAS/PC expected real life power draw) under any normal scenarios, that means an home server, in a western world house, with typical North american temperatures ("...but you should still get about two-three times your expected power draw of fanless operation range...").


toronado455 wrote:
I don't understand where you are getting the 25°C limit,

I quoted ComputerBase, a large german publisher, who reported the actual ST-30SF fan profile at about 25°C.


toronado455 wrote:
but are you saying that ambient room temps exceeding 25°C will trigger a PSU fan to start even if the internal PSU temp has not reached 55°C?

No, I was saying I have no actual data about PSU fan profile when ambient room exceeds about 25°C, but I can make an educated guess based upon my own experience with this kind of PSU (semi passive).

The 55°C limit was quoted subsequently as an attempt to answer to your concern, because it's the only figure available about when the fanless operation is deactivated (given that the relationship between ambient temp and "internal temp" is largely unknown, I'm also aware this late figure doesn't add that clarity about "when the Silverstone fan controller actually deactivates passive operation").


toronado455 wrote:
My concern is that the ambient room temp where the computer is used may indeed exceed 25°C...not by a lot, but 78-80 (sometimes more) fahrenheit room temps are certainly possible during the warmest summer months.

Those 78-80°F are 26-27°C, a really small increment over the 25°C reference, I wouldn't mind about that.


toronado455 wrote:
The PSU I'm replacing in the system we are discussing in this thread was an old Seasonic S12 500W (which died) which had a constantly spinning fan which never bothered me.

Well, if you have your experience and ideas, don't ask for a recommendation: just pick another Seasonic, the proven G-360 is a nice and well built option for instance, very efficient above 40W and rather quiet under 150W. And it's a long standing SPCR reference.
Their S12/M12 are nowadays a too old design, I'd pass, but if you like it, the old 430 might still be a relatively solid choice: less efficient, less quiet, less performing than a G-360 but solid.


toronado455 wrote:
What would really bother me noise-wise in a PSU would be buzzing and whining noises from coils, etc. I would also tend to think that such noises would be an indication of poor quality, but I'm certainly no expert on any of this.

Unfortunately whining may happen with any PSU (Seasonic, EVGA, Corsair, Silverstone): very often it's not related to build quality, but at any rate just pick your new PSU from a supplier who puts no objection to return (Amazon does that here in EU, for instance).


toronado455 wrote:
EDIT: sorry to add more... but I would also like to keep the weight to a minimum if at all possible. (I realize that's kind of a contradiction of my desire for high-quality PSU since most of the best tend to be heavy right?)

Sorry, I can't help: if you wanna minimize weight, the Silverstone SFX is your best candidate by far.
If you don't feel love for it, I guess the Seasonic G-360, with its short 140mm casing, could be your second best.

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:56 am 
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Just my 2 cents....as Luca mentioned - go with a retailer that allows for easy returns. Then, you can stress test the PSU in your environment and see if there's any issues and return if neccessary. I kinda doubt that you'd have issues with any of the mentioned options.

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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Luca, there may be a bit of a language barrier, but more likely it is my own lack of familiarity with these PSU tests and lingo. You have been helping me a lot! Thanks. :)

I have no preference for Seasonic. The S-12 was given to me used by a friend after he didn't need it anymore.

CA_Steve wrote:
Just my 2 cents....as Luca mentioned - go with a retailer that allows for easy returns. Then, you can stress test the PSU in your environment and see if there's any issues and return if neccessary. I kinda doubt that you'd have issues with any of the mentioned options.
I am for sure going NewEgg Premier because that gives me free return shipping and no restocking fees!


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:14 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
at first glance I like the Silverstone ST-30SF V1.0 more for that job (and it's specifically marketed by Silverstone for NAS jobs).
I recently bought it and emailed the SilverStone support team, inquiring about the temperature.
Assuming the OP had also bought it, s/he might be interested to know the reply.

The following is my questions to the support team.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product. ... 58&area=en
I have bought ST30SF (V1.0). According to the above product page, it produces 300W continuous power output at 50℃, and the fan will not start unless the internal temperature has reached 55℃.
So, is 55℃ acceptable when the PSU is designed to work at 50℃? Will 55℃ shorten the life of the PSU over time?
============================================================
============================================================
The following is the reply from the support team.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much for using a SilverStone.
Sorry let you confusing, 50℃ is refers to your PC case temperature.
When reaches 55°C the fanless mode operation deactivates is refers to PSU’s internal temperature, this two are not same.
We don’t recommend the PSU long-term use in more than 50℃ environment, will cause the PSU’s internal temperature reaches 100°C or more,
Once long-term in high temperature environment, will reducing the output power of the power supply and also shorten the life of the power supply.
Thank you~


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:49 pm 
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That's interesting Matthew. Thanks for posting your experience. Do you plan on continuing to use the PSU and does it suit your needs?


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 Post subject: Re: PSU needed for my system
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:52 pm 
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toronado455 wrote:
Do you plan on continuing to use the PSU and does it suit your needs?
Yes, and yes.
Which of the following have you bought?
toronado455 wrote:
1. Silverstone ST30SF v1.0 300W
2. Corsair RM550x
3. EVGA G2 650W
4. EVGA G3 550W
5. EVGA G2 550W


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